Arena Discussion Thread (inc. Assault)

[Alkaid]

1 hour ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

Thanks @Alkaid that was very helpful.  I'll have to double-check my barracks for higher-rated units.  I don't have Ike, so i'll probably use BK or Kektor.  Just built a non-bride Cordelia so I could use her.  My highest rated units are Lucina, Hector, and BK, but they all suck against horse emblem so huff

Too bad Camilla doesn't have the highest BST in this game like she does in Fates lol.

Give Hector the Deflect Magic 3 seal and he shits on Reinhardt, even +10 horse buffed ones. I used to hate lugging him into the arena as my green, trying to be greedy for score, since he'd get bodied by Rein, unlike if I brought Fae or S Camilla. Now that he can deal with Rein too, he's so much easier to have on the team. Horses are still a pain, but gimping Rein with Hector usually lets me play around the rest of them until I can get at them on player phase instead of baiting Lyn or Cecilia. Having Reposition on 1 or 2 of your other units to fling him and/or BK around is a big help too. Otherwise they might get caught with their pants down trying to dodge horses' attack range. 

And true that. I wish I could be using her to crush things like Cordelia does. 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Alkaid

[mampfoid]

On 11.11.2017 at 1:24 PM, bethany81707 said:

Spoiled for size. It's an Arena Score Calculator.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I tried my Arena team this season of Fae/Tana/Brave!Lyn/Arvis, and it looked accurate.

If you want to use this in your own sheet without rounding down, I translated it to one formula. It works in google docs and should work in Excel too. I assumed everybody uses a bonus unit (or is playing AA) and choses advanced difficulty:

 

• Arena score for 1 unit:
  
  =2*(174+(A^2)+(B*2.5)+(C*2)+(FLOOR(D,5)/5)+(FLOOR((E),100)/100))
  
  A = Rarity
  B = Level
  C = Merges
  D = BST
  E = SP Cost (Skills+Weapon+Seal)
   
• Base scoreline for your team:
  
  AVERAGE(F,G,H,I)
  
  F = Score unit 1
  G = Score unit 2
  H = Score unit 3
  I = Score unit 4
   
• Score Range:
  
  AVERAGE(F,G,H,I) + 14

 

At least it let me realize that with my current merge material, it would be unlikely to stay in tier 20 for me. My maximum base score line would be 701,5 (range 715,5). 

Edited November 13, 2017 by mampfoid

[bethany81707]

I'm working on looking at what this formula means for the Defence team, if it applies. I'm using @LordFrigid's most recent streak recorded (it starts with a team of both Nowis, Fae, and Vanilla Azura at +10, +10, +10 and +7).

Said team comes up with a result of 732.75 when plugged into the calculator straight from Reddit, but it awarded Frigid 728 (thanks for the rigourous data points!). I'll give the rest of the teams a whirl before I judge it, but from the looks of it, this not quite the whole story on the Defence front.

EDIT: On second thought... the obvious pattern didn't happen, and I'm no good trying to figure out alternatives, so I'll leave it to the experts. Run 2 was 728, Run 3 was 733 (truncated).

Or I'm mathing wrong, but that also means I'm probably not the gal for the job. This is why I want to have seperate entry points for the seven skill slots. (Slightly related, but I treated QP as a 200 SP skill when it came up- equal value to Iote's Shield or Goad Armour as a white-rimmed slot. 240 or 300 are probably more accurate values in terms of utility, but that's just what I chose here).

Edited November 13, 2017 by bethany81707

[mampfoid]

10 minutes ago, bethany81707 said:

I'm working on looking at what this formula means for the Defence team, if it applies. I'm using @LordFrigid's most recent streak recorded (it starts with a team of both Nowis, Fae, and Vanilla Azura at +10, +10, +10 and +7).

Said team comes up with a result of 732.75 when plugged into the calculator straight from Reddit, but it awarded Frigid 728 (thanks for the rigourous data points!). I'll give the rest of the teams a whirl before I judge it, but from the looks of it, this not quite the whole story on the Defence front.

As far as I know, there are some things to consider for defense: 

• If your defense team gets someone on AA, no bonus applies

• You get higher scores on defense if the opponent loses to your team choosing easy difficulty and lower scores if he loses to your team at advanced difficulty

• The guy from Reddit wrote that the formula is less exact for medium and easy difficulty. 

• Also the score range isn't an exact thing yet. 

[bethany81707]

5 minutes ago, mampfoid said:

As far as I know, there are some things to consider for defense: 

 

• If your defense team gets someone on AA, no bonus applies

   

• You get higher scores on defense if the opponent loses to your team choosing easy difficulty and lower scores if he loses to your team at advanced difficulty

   

• The guy from Reddit wrote that the formula is less exact for medium and easy difficulty. 

   

• Also the score range isn't an exact thing yet. 

   

 

I was hoping to get some results to see if this points in the right direction.

Also, I just noticed I goofed up at least one part of the math that I didn't acknowledge- I was calculating normal specials as 300 SP skills instead of 200. Oops.

(Besides, the thing I really wanted to know was how to manipulate what score ranges get to fight me- and how to get my green-spam Fae team into the pool of inexperienced 'Just Use Reinhardt' players).

[mampfoid]

1 minute ago, bethany81707 said:

I was hoping to get some results to see if this points in the right direction.

Also, I just noticed I goofed up at least one part of the math that I didn't acknowledge- I was calculating normal specials as 300 SP skills instead of 200. Oops.

(Besides, the thing I really wanted to know was how to manipulate what score ranges get to fight me- and how to get my green-spam Fae team into the pool of inexperienced 'Just Use Reinhardt' players).

Yeah, I mixed up SP values all the time at my first calculations, especially the specials and assists. 

Good idea about placing a defense team in a certain score range. Reinhardt would become less and less interesting in un-merged spheres. 

I just realized that Nino would need a +3 merge and an AoE special to get the exact same score as vanilla (+Assist) +0 BH!Ike. To boost my score significantly she would need to be +5. No way I'm wasting 100k feathers on this for such small effect. 

[bethany81707]

11 minutes ago, mampfoid said:

Yeah, I mixed up SP values all the time at my first calculations, especially the specials and assists. 

Good idea about placing a defense team in a certain score range. Reinhardt would become less and less interesting in un-merged spheres. 

I just realized that Nino would need a +3 merge and an AoE special to get the exact same score as vanilla (+Assist) +0 BH!Ike. To boost my score significantly she would need to be +5. No way I'm wasting 100k feathers on this for such small effect. 

Yeah, I'm noticing that too. I put Ayra into my new spreadsheet of Arena-likely units (as in, she's probably going to fill my fourth slot if Fae, Tana or B!Lyn is ever made a bonus unit), and holy smokes, she doesn't have a C Skill and she's more valuable than Tana.

Brave Lyn, despite her being a ranged horse, has the investment needed to be valuable enough (ie more valuable than the Askrs, but by only 2 points) to warrant staying on and using her abilities on the field to try and get me to win my Arena fights. Can't score high if I don't get Deathless streaks in the first place.

[mampfoid]

7 minutes ago, bethany81707 said:

Yeah, I'm noticing that too. I put Ayra into my new spreadsheet of Arena-likely units (as in, she's probably going to fill my fourth slot if Fae, Tana or B!Lyn is ever made a bonus unit), and holy smokes, she doesn't have a C Skill and she's more valuable than Tana.

Brave Lyn, despite her being a ranged horse, has the investment needed to be valuable enough (ie more valuable than the Askrs, but by only 2 points) to warrant staying on and using her abilities on the field to try and get me to win my Arena fights. Can't score high if I don't get Deathless streaks in the first place.

Tana got a SP-cheap a A-Skill, while only Ayras expensive special makes up for the missing C-Skill. 

Playability is the reason why I don't run my AA team on regular Arena. It's already a pain to win the first AA match. But BH!Lyns score is to low without merges. I only run ranged units if they are bonus units I fully built (Arvin currently). 

[bethany81707]

14 minutes ago, mampfoid said:

Tana got a SP-cheap a A-Skill, while only Ayras expensive special makes up for the missing C-Skill. 

Playability is the reason why I don't run my AA team on regular Arena. It's already a pain to win the first AA match. But BH!Lyns score is to low without merges. I only run ranged units if they are bonus units I fully built (Arvin currently). 

It's probably time for me to consider a 200 A on Tana (as well as getting QR3 for Fae). My problem is which, mostly.

When I settle on a C Skill for Ayra, I might try out an attempt at Arena that switches Brave Lyn for her. I'll see if I can't get anywhere with it.

(Also, I still do Intermediate AAs. I use my Armour team, but I should probably check what they're actually scoring).

[mampfoid]

3 minutes ago, bethany81707 said:

It's probably time for me to consider a 200 A on Tana (as well as getting QR3 for Fae). My problem is which, mostly.

When I settle on a C Skill for Ayra, I might try out an attempt at Arena that switches Brave Lyn for her. I'll see if I can't get anywhere with it.

(Also, I still do Intermediate AAs. I use my Armour team, but I should probably check what they're actually scoring).

Sigurds banner ended before I could pull a spare one to give Tana Close Defense. 

[bethany81707]

11 minutes ago, bethany81707 said:

I use my Armour team, but I should probably check what they're actually scoring.

Checked- Black Knight and Effie currently tie Ayra, Hector surpasses her, and 4* Zephiel... is surpassed by both Hana and Boey. The team probably needs some refinement, but AA isn't sufficiently prioritised, especially considering that Intermediate thing.

(Oh, and if you're wondering what Hana is doing on my potential Arena unit list, I'm adding any free rotation units I've built to the permanent section. Hana isn't 5* yet either, so she's probably not going to be used over Anna in terms of score, but hey, it turns out she's better than Zephiel...)

9 minutes ago, mampfoid said:

Sigurds banner ended before I could pull a spare one to give Tana Close Defense. 

Doesn't that sound nice... my Sigurd's of a pretty good nature, and it's that or Speed Smoke to inherit, so that's probably what'll happen if I get a Sigurd. Not gonna happen, but at least I know what to do with a random Sigurd, unlike Celica (my current Celica has a terrible nature and enough inheritance to warrant a merge for a better one).

[mampfoid]

25 minutes ago, bethany81707 said:

[...]

Doesn't that sound nice... my Sigurd's of a pretty good nature, and it's that or Speed Smoke to inherit, so that's probably what'll happen if I get a Sigurd. Not gonna happen, but at least I know what to do with a random Sigurd, unlike Celica (my current Celica has a terrible nature and enough inheritance to warrant a merge for a better one).

Funny, Celica was one of my pity breakers on my hunt for Nowi. She is of a good nature, but I already got a good natured Celica and will probably feed her to Xander. 

[LordFrigid]

3 hours ago, bethany81707 said:

I'm working on looking at what this formula means for the Defence team, if it applies. I'm using @LordFrigid's most recent streak recorded (it starts with a team of both Nowis, Fae, and Vanilla Azura at +10, +10, +10 and +7).

Said team comes up with a result of 732.75 when plugged into the calculator straight from Reddit, but it awarded Frigid 728 (thanks for the rigourous data points!). I'll give the rest of the teams a whirl before I judge it, but from the looks of it, this not quite the whole story on the Defence front.

Happy it’s coming in handy for something. I thought it would be useful for this, but to use the approximate phrasing from before, I just don’t strike me as the kind of person that would feel like trying to figure it out =P .

Admittedly I hadn’t looked at that calculator before now, though I did give the rest of that post a read-through...and...hm, that data input form is...less than ideal (my opinion). If you’re still interested in using the data, I can see if I can put together something to make that a bit easier.

And now I’m wondering if I should start recording +/- ... I think I tried once, and it just took too long to look everyone up lol. It was a while ago though, so I was probably getting stuck on the non +10 ones.

[bethany81707]

11 minutes ago, LordFrigid said:

Happy it’s coming in handy for something. I thought it would be useful for this, but to use the approximate phrasing from before, I just don’t strike me as the kind of person that would feel like trying to figure it out =P .

Admittedly I hadn’t looked at that calculator before now, though I did give the rest of that post a read-through...and...hm, that data input form is...less than ideal (my opinion). If you’re still interested in using the data, I can see if I can put together something to make that a bit easier.

And now I’m wondering if I should start recording +/- ... I think I tried once, and it just took too long to look everyone up lol. It was a while ago though, so I was probably getting stuck on the non +10 ones.

Yeah, I hated having to add all the skill points into one pool, so I used the isolated formula @mampfoid provided and made my own that allowed me to state the value of each skill by skill slot, and then added it up for me. (Helps catch those errors!) Also a thing: I can have more than four save slots.

[mampfoid]

3 minutes ago, bethany81707 said:

Yeah, I hated having to add all the skill points into one pool, so I used the isolated formula @mampfoid provided and made my own that allowed me to state the value of each skill by skill slot, and then added it up for me. (Helps catch those errors!) Also a thing: I can have more than four save slots.

Already had a sheet to track all my units, I only had to add the formula to one column and the SP of the equipped skills to the most important units. 

The sheet has a column to group teams, I added a worksheet to calculate team scores. 

[LordFrigid]

5 hours ago, bethany81707 said:

Yeah, I hated having to add all the skill points into one pool, so I used the isolated formula @mampfoid provided and made my own that allowed me to state the value of each skill by skill slot, and then added it up for me. (Helps catch those errors!) Also a thing: I can have more than four save slots.

I was thinking about something like this.

As noted on the sheet: Character stat data retrieved from the Fire Emblem: Heroes Gamepedia wiki. Skill costs retreived from the wiki, and the game itself. Seal SP costs are ALL assumed. There is currently NO option to enter +/- stats. Only the final 2 tiers of weapons are included.

I think that covers all the assumptions I made. I actually strongly suspect that the Deflects are worth more than Atk Ploy and the like, but I don't know for sure, so I left them at 60/120/240. I may look more closely later, when I go back and try to get +/- working (no idea when that'll be). I actually tried the first entry in my teams listing sheet for this week and it came out right, so that was cool.

Edited November 13, 2017 by LordFrigid

[Rezzy]

This week is a real nail biter to see if I stay in Tier 20.  My score of 4944 is rank 4566/4744 to stay, without about an hour left to go.

Simply getting that score took a bit of Crest fishing, so unless I want to spend 20 Crests every week, I don't think I'll be able to do this every week, but I would like to stay at least one week, just to say I did.

I have gotten up to 712 for matches, but my last attempt kept throwing me only 700-704 matches, and when I finally got a few 708+ matches, my Deathless streak was broken by that stupid Boat Map.  I loathe that map, since it only gives one path, with no room to really maneuver or separate the enemy team.

EDIT: Since I posted only a few minutes ago, my rank has dropped to 4603.  It's not looking good for Rezzy.

1 hour ago, LordFrigid said:

I was thinking about something like this.

As noted on the sheet: Character stat data retrieved from the Fire Emblem: Heroes Gamepedia wiki. Skill costs retreived from the wiki, and the game itself. Seal SP costs are ALL assumed. There is currently NO option to enter +/- stats. Only the final 2 tiers of weapons are included.

I think that covers all the assumptions I made. I actually strongly suspect that the Deflects are worth more than Atk Ploy and the like, but I don't know for sure, so I left them at 60/120/240. I may look more closely later, when I go back and try to get +/- working (no idea when that'll be). I actually tried the first entry in my teams listing sheet for this week and it came out right, so that was cool.

Is there a way to edit that?  I'd like to use some sort of calculator, but it seems to be view only.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Rezzy

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

3 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

This week is a real nail biter to see if I stay in Tier 20.  My score of 4944 is rank 4566/4744 to stay, without about an hour left to go.

Simply getting that score took a bit of Crest fishing, so unless I want to spend 20 Crests every week, I don't think I'll be able to do this every week, but I would like to stay at least one week, just to say I did.

I have gotten up to 712 for matches, but my last attempt kept throwing me only 700-704 matches, and when I finally got a few 708+ matches, my Deathless streak was broken by that stupid Boat Map.  I loathe that map, since it only gives one path, with no room to really maneuver or separate the enemy team.

You're probably safe. Mondays have the slowest decay, so 180 ranks should be fine, if a little close (you'll probably end with a margin of 50 or less remaining).

• Tier 20 score of 4990 (Nino +7 with Aether/HP+3 Seal, Nowi +10 with Distant Def 3 Seal, Eirika +1 with Fortify Res 3 Seal, Arvis with Squad Ace C 1 Seal) - #2124(/4748)
• Arena Assault score of 5020 (Nino +7 with Aether/HP+3 Seal, Nowi +10 with Distant Def 3 Seal, Eirika +1 with Fortify Res 3 Seal, Sheena +1 with Panic Ploy 3 Seal) - #1387

Well, with regular Arena's threshold going berserk, I guess it's no wonder that 5020 isn't evenly remotely good enough for top 1000 in AA. This Nino/Eirika drought is really killing me (and my score). I guess I can't complain too hard about the reds because Hinatas and Selenas are pretty damn good consolation prizes—and Draug, while bad on his own, may end up being my Sheena replacement for AA point slave, so he's kinda welcome. However, for green, I just keep getting nothing but Trashtres. Sorry, Trashtre, but the only way you're gonna get me to even consider leveling you is if you show up with a perfect boon/bane. Oh, well, I did use the more recent quests to promote my Attack Ploy Seal to rank 3, so that's gonna replace the HP +3 on Nino. I doubt it'll make that much of a difference for my score right now, but maybe I'll catch up a bit faster if I start being able to move my merges up again.

Also kinda hoping this new main banner gives me an excuse to pull blue. Aside from eternally being in need of more Subakis for SI, this last VG has made me want to build a Shanna (not just for meme value—Shanna was literally my first pull in this game giving her a special place in my heart—not to mention having more strong fliers for AA is never bad). Unfortunately, despite having 5 of her in my box, none are +Spd, so I'm unwilling to promote any of them. :/

[Rezzy]

3 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

You're probably safe. Mondays have the slowest decay, so 180 ranks should be fine, if a little close (you'll probably end with a margin of 50 or less remaining).

• Tier 20 score of 4990 (Nino +7 with Aether/HP+3 Seal, Nowi +10 with Distant Def 3 Seal, Eirika +1 with Fortify Res 3 Seal, Arvis with Squad Ace C 1 Seal) - #2124(/4748)
• Arena Assault score of 5020 (Nino +7 with Aether/HP+3 Seal, Nowi +10 with Distant Def 3 Seal, Eirika +1 with Fortify Res 3 Seal, Sheena +1 with Panic Ploy 3 Seal) - #1387

Well, with regular Arena's threshold going berserk, I guess it's no wonder that 5020 isn't evenly remotely good enough for top 1000 in AA. This Nino/Eirika drought is really killing me (and my score). I guess I can't complain too hard about the reds because Hinatas and Selenas are pretty damn good consolation prizes—and Draug, while bad on his own, may end up being my Sheena replacement for AA point slave, so he's kinda welcome. However, for green, I just keep getting nothing but Trashtres. Sorry, Trashtre, but the only way you're gonna get me to even consider leveling you is if you show up with a perfect boon/bane. Oh, well, I did use the more recent quests to promote my Attack Ploy Seal to rank 3, so that's gonna replace the HP +3 on Nino. I doubt it'll make that much of a difference for my score right now, but maybe I'll catch up a bit faster if I start being able to move my merges up again.

Also kinda hoping this new main banner gives me an excuse to pull blue. Aside from eternally being in need of more Subakis for SI, this last VG has made me want to build a Shanna (not just for meme value—Shanna was literally my first pull in this game giving her a special place in my heart—not to mention having more strong fliers for AA is never bad). Unfortunately, despite having 5 of her in my box, none are +Spd, so I'm unwilling to promote any of them. :/

I hope there's a Green in the next Banner, so I could get a chance at more Titanias.  She's the only non GHB on my core team.  I would also like to see a Blue, since I'm still waiting for Oscar to show up, as well as maybe a Tailtiu.

In Arena Assault, I'm rank 3078 with my score of 4926, which I'm happy with, since I don't think I'd have a hope of cracking the top 1000.

[Alternate Blue]

Here's my arena for the week. No defensive wins (though I've always seen it as a bonus, it's nice to get but I'm fine without it), and totally not deathless. Gonna end up dropping from Tier 18 but it's pretty easy getting back to it. Especially since I have no time to devote to getting to higher tiers (with this team it's a lot of work).

Spoiler

 

[Infinite Dreams]

Rank Updates - 1 minute to closing:

Arena: 4964 - Rank 3197/4752 to stay in 20

Arena Assault: 5008 - Rank 1513

[Rezzy]

Weird, I got my Arena Assault stuff, but nothing is coming up for regular Arena.

[Alternate Blue]

Just now, Rezzy said:

Weird, I got my Arena Assault stuff, but nothing is coming up for regular Arena.

Same here. AA rewards came up fine, but Arena just shows as closed.

[Rezzy]

Just now, Alternate Blue said:

Same here. AA rewards came up fine, but Arena just shows as closed.

This will be very anticlimactic is I get kicked out of Tier 20...

[Alternate Blue]

1 minute ago, Rezzy said:

This will be very anticlimactic is I get kicked out of Tier 20...

Ah you should check Arena again. Just got the rewards message now.