Erren Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Fire Emblem Heroes has only been out for a short while now, and is probably one of the most played apps released by Nintendo. Seriously, not even Miitomo or Mario Run can touch this game! It retains the chess-styled gameplay, brings back old classes like Sword Fliers, Wyvern Riders that can use swords, and more. Of course, for a game like this, there is bound to be flaws, and there is. One of the biggest flaws... is the Summoning System. Why? Well, I am going to list ALL of the flaws that the Summoning System brings to Fire Emblem Heroes. 1. Random drops. These have always existed in online games, and R.N.G. makes it super annoying. You are bound to get the same characters you already have, or characters you don't even want, over and over again. 2. Orbs. Of course, when there is a system where you can get a random unit, there is bound to be some sort of currency for it. Orbs are gained through complete parts of chapters on any difficulty. It takes 5 to summon one for free, and the price slowly lowers as you keep summoning. However, if you want to do EXP. Farming, and you don't have a Light's Blessing on you, you have to USE these orbs so you can revive your characters. 3. Too many heroes of the same level coming from summoning. There is a rare chance that you can get a 5 Star character. And the other common chances? 3 to 4 star characters that are utterly useless to you. Just a way to rack up Hero Feathers. 4. Orb Price Ranges. You are always bound to use real life currency to get in game currency if you are too lazy to complete the game for yourself, or if the levels are too hard for your units to beat. Nintendo and other online games have a reputation to overprice in game content. You can get 10 orbs from My Nintendo, but that's all you are going to get. If you can't beat the levels, you are bound to be spending money to get orbs and more useless 3 star characters you don't even want. So, These are the four reasons why the Summoning System SUCKS in Fire Emblem Heroes. Hopefully, its bound to get better in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avestus Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) Everything you mentioned is a standard monetization scheme for a whole class of games called "gacha", like it or not. It's subject to fine-tuning, but it won't be changed in any major way. You probably should've googled that before creating a vain thread like this one... Edited February 17, 2017 by Avestus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Welcome to Gacha. also 3*/4* =/= useless. You can get a lot out of em with at least a little strategy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiddo Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Those points you brought up will never ever be changed. That's how this entire genre of mobile game works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LodestarRoy Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 While all you say holds truth. It's super unlikely any of this will be fixed. The gotcha system is proven to bring sweet sweet bank so why would they change anything? If you just want a better Fire Emblem experience just go play an older game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roflolxp54 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) It's a gacha game, albeit a pretty pricey one. Assuming that you buy the 75-orb pack (lowest price per orb), you're spending ~2.67 USD per hero (hunt summon, assuming 0 or 1 of wanted stone color; 15 heroes total) or ~2.22 USD per hero (assuming maximum orb efficiency; 18 heroes total, 2 orbs leftover). That's much more expensive than buying a booster pack hoping to get a trading card (or cards) you want but perhaps cheaper than buying a blindbox hoping to get a trading figure you want. Edited February 17, 2017 by Roflolxp54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 It's how they get money from it. It's annoying, but it also means they were able to put out a game you can have plenty of fun with for free, even if it means not getting the best characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanite Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) Compared to other games, I think the summoning system is fine. As an example, in summoner's War the chances of getting a 5 star from a 3-5 star scroll is less than 2%. In this game you have a 3 percent chance of getting any random 5 star and a 3 percent chance of getting a focus for a total of 6 percent AND the chances increase by .25 every 5 summons. All one can do is be patient. Some people have 0, others 7, and I have 2. I do agree that orbs will be a problem but I refuse to pay anything in this game. Edited February 17, 2017 by Arcanite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sire Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 As many stated here, the "RNG System" in the west is common practice in the East with Gachapon-style monetization. Fairly recently (past few years) Western developers have started incorporating RNG into their games (Loot Crates and all variants thereof), but there are plenty of ways to go about the system of RNG progression. While I don't mind the Gacha system too much (even though pure RNG sucks), I would love a "Guaranteed Option" that instantly gives what the player is looking for, but at a higher price. So, instead of paying ~$11 to pull five random heroes, pay $5 to instantly purchase a "Focus" hero, such as Erika. In essence, I want an alternative method of obtaining things instead of relying on pure RNG all the time. The alternative may not be as efficient, but that is the price of convenience. Other alternatives that have been used are crafting systems, point systems, or simply have the game up for purchase and the Loot Boxes contain only cosmetic items (Overwatch). However, the nature of most Gachapon games tends to stick to the pure-RNG formula and not give alternatives so players can keep "gambling" for what they are looking for, especially games with Eastern developers. Also, keep in mind Fire Emblem: Heroes is a free to play game. While it is free to play, it still requires money to actually operate and continue development, so it needs to have some form of monetization somewhere. The alternative to FE:H is just making another Fire Emblem title that is bought and played like most games. I would like to see Orb prices lowered as they are a bit steep at current. $2 per hero but costing only $8 for a full batch (5 heroes) sounds a lot more reasonable compared to the current ~$11 for a full pull. Alas, I don't see a price reduction happening unless there is some form of sale, provided sales are even a thing in these games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanite Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, Sire said: While I don't mind the Gacha system too much (even though pure RNG sucks), I would love a "Guaranteed Option" that instantly gives what the player is looking for, but at a higher price. So, instead of paying ~$11 to pull five random heroes, pay $5 to instantly purchase a "Focus" hero, such as Erika. In essence, I want an alternative method of obtaining things instead of relying on pure RNG all the time. The alternative may not be as efficient, but that is the price of convenience. If it was easy to get 5 stars like that, then instead of people spending 75 dollars on buying orbs for randoms, they'll have 5☆+25 Lyns and lucinas. Then this game would be straight pay to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roflolxp54 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Arcanite said: If it was easy to get 5 stars like that, then instead of people spending 75 dollars on buying orbs for randoms, they'll have 5☆+25 Lyns and lucinas. Then this game would be straight pay to win. A way to do it is to pay to get a specific character but rarity would be randomized from 1-star to 5-star, perhaps with the chance of getting a 5-star being significantly lower than that of getting a non-specific 5-star character from the gacha (like a flat 1% instead of 6% that can be boosted). IVs would be randomized, as usual. I'm still in the camp that'd prefer a non-F2P port of Heroes for the 3DS that puts emphasis on grinding for resources in addition to strategy though. Edited February 17, 2017 by Roflolxp54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 A brilliant, devious way to do that would be to restrict it in a way that makes it a gateway to gambling. As a one-time-per-banner-period purchase, you can drop US$20 to get a guaranteed random Focus 5* from the current banner (if there are multiple banners, you may only select one banner). If you get what you want? Lucky you! If not, well, let me just show you this neat little shop we have that sells Orbs that could get you your favoured hero. All you gotta do is drop another US$20. And if not, well, you could always buy more Orbs. You know you wanna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roflolxp54 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said: A brilliant, devious way to do that would be to restrict it in a way that makes it a gateway to gambling. As a one-time-per-banner-period purchase, you can drop US$20 to get a guaranteed random Focus 5* from the current banner (if there are multiple banners, you may only select one banner). If you get what you want? Lucky you! If not, well, let me just show you this neat little shop we have that sells Orbs that could get you your favoured hero. All you gotta do is drop another US$20. And if not, well, you could always buy more Orbs. You know you wanna. In addition, you get a free 5 orbs (that cannot be used with the orbs you already have) each time a new banner shows up - good for 1 single draw! Oh, and those 5 orbs expire once the Focus expires. Edited February 17, 2017 by Roflolxp54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sire Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, Arcanite said: If it was easy to get 5 stars like that, then instead of people spending 75 dollars on buying orbs for randoms, they'll have 5☆+25 Lyns and lucinas. Then this game would be straight pay to win. It's already pay to win. Throw down hundreds or thousands of dollars and players can already get their 5* +10 merge. Besides, Arena Tiers exist for a reason. As Fire Emblem: Heroes grows and matures, those with highly merged characters and efficient teams will be pushed to the higher tiers while others will remain in the lower ones. Unless Tiers are just an indication of ranking and have no effect on matchmaking, this helps keep F2P players away from those who spent lots of money (as well as a 4 Takumi team). Then, besides Arena, there is the PvE aspect. Who cares if someone is running a four 5* +10 Takumis through the Training Tower? Sure, players will be envious and jealous of what they do not have, but that is just how it works. It is entirely possible for a F2P player to get to that same height, but it will only take longer. If such a system was added (it never will), I'm sure there will limitations such as one purchase per hero to prevent buying characters in bulk. The point of the system is to provide convenience for players who really want their favorite heroes instead of relying on RNG. Playing with heroes that one fancies is far better than playing with heroes one does not care about. * * * * * Also, like Roflolxp54, I wouldn't mind a paid version of FE Heroes. Orbs can still remain the same currency, but the game gives them out in far more plentiful amounts and some systems would be adjusted to suit more classic Fire Emblem gameplay and progression instead of relying on the Gacha model. (Say beating a chapter unlocks a set of characters from that world.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiddo Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) Even a price as high as $20 for a guaranteed 5* loses the company money. More people will spend over that in the attempt to get a 5* currently. Most have to spend more than $20 in fact. RNG is always the most profitable. A flat rate that makes them enough money to be worth it would be too high for most people to bother with. Gotta accept that going into this type of game: outside of things like the Narcian battle (which you could barely do if F2P), you're never going to be guaranteed a good or even decent unit. Always have to grind them out. Preferably with cash. Edited February 17, 2017 by TheNiddo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sire Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, TheNiddo said: Even a price as high as $20 for a guaranteed 5* loses the company money. More people will spend over that in the attempt to get a 5* currently. Most have to spend more than $20 in fact. RNG is always the most profitable. A flat rate that makes them enough money to be worth it would be too high for most people to bother with. RNG will likely always be the most profitable (which is why it is favored instead of alternatives) but from a consumer standpoint, a man can dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roflolxp54 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Sire said: RNG will likely always be the most profitable (which is why it is favored instead of alternatives) but from a consumer standpoint, a man can dream. Yeah, a non-F2P port of FE Heroes may seem a long way off, given that FE Heroes is pretty new, but not impossible; Pokemon Rumble World was originally a free-to-start 3DS download title that later got a full retail version for the same system a year later. Such a game could be a huge seller given that there's loads of Fire Emblem characters. Edited February 17, 2017 by Roflolxp54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTuckingFypo Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 So that's why it's called "Gacha". They really 'gotcha' (shot for bad pun) But I agree with most of what has been said above, from a business perspective, it's the most profitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanite Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 They should give a limit to the amount of orbs you can buy each month or alternatively give newcomers a free non-focus 5 star to make things a little more even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) 26 minutes ago, TheNiddo said: Even a price as high as $20 for a guaranteed 5* loses the company money. More people will spend over that in the attempt to get a 5* currently. Most have to spend more than $20 in fact. RNG is always the most profitable. A flat rate that makes them enough money to be worth it would be too high for most people to bother with. Well, yes, in the short term (and also why it's one per banner period; or that could be pushed out to one purchase per two months or something just a bit longer than short term like that; these are kinda spit-balled timelines). The idea is it present something that looks reasonable to the typical person. US$20 is a pretty "good" deal in the current system, so a lot of people would go for it. Since it's a random 5*, there's a pretty good chance they might not get what they want (unless they want everything in the banner, I guess, but that can still help gateway). Then you talk them into it. Well, you already spent $20 on that 5*, why not drop $20 on Orbs to go for another? It's not that much, right? How about another $20? And another? Hey, instead of just throwing around $20 at a time, why not try a bulk package? Only $50 for 75 Orbs! Need more? How's $80 for 140 Orbs sound? Good deal? Great! Ease people into spending just a little more... just a little more, then... gacha! EDIT: 27 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said: In addition, you get a free 5 orbs (that cannot be used with the orbs you already have) each time a new banner shows up - good for 1 single draw! Ooo, yes. That sounds like the perfect bridge. Edited February 17, 2017 by Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aymodez Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) I don't see a flaw. I earn all of my orbs for summoning and have rolled a lot of 3* or 4* heroes. Last night, I used 20 orbs to pull. In short, I was happy with what I got: Edited February 17, 2017 by Aymodez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 3 hours ago, Erren said: Fire Emblem Heroes has only been out for a short while now, and is probably one of the most played apps released by Nintendo. Seriously, not even Miitomo or Mario Run can touch this game! It retains the chess-styled gameplay, brings back old classes like Sword Fliers, Wyvern Riders that can use swords, and more. Of course, for a game like this, there is bound to be flaws, and there is. One of the biggest flaws... is the Summoning System. Why? Well, I am going to list ALL of the flaws that the Summoning System brings to Fire Emblem Heroes. 1. Random drops. These have always existed in online games, and R.N.G. makes it super annoying. You are bound to get the same characters you already have, or characters you don't even want, over and over again. 2. Orbs. Of course, when there is a system where you can get a random unit, there is bound to be some sort of currency for it. Orbs are gained through complete parts of chapters on any difficulty. It takes 5 to summon one for free, and the price slowly lowers as you keep summoning. However, if you want to do EXP. Farming, and you don't have a Light's Blessing on you, you have to USE these orbs so you can revive your characters. 3. Too many heroes of the same level coming from summoning. There is a rare chance that you can get a 5 Star character. And the other common chances? 3 to 4 star characters that are utterly useless to you. Just a way to rack up Hero Feathers. 4. Orb Price Ranges. You are always bound to use real life currency to get in game currency if you are too lazy to complete the game for yourself, or if the levels are too hard for your units to beat. Nintendo and other online games have a reputation to overprice in game content. You can get 10 orbs from My Nintendo, but that's all you are going to get. If you can't beat the levels, you are bound to be spending money to get orbs and more useless 3 star characters you don't even want. So, These are the four reasons why the Summoning System SUCKS in Fire Emblem Heroes. Hopefully, its bound to get better in the future. I'll try to be polite. Really, I will. 1. The Boon/Bane system means that you can fish for a character with a better stat combination. This makes a difference in high-level play, since -Spd Takumi gets doubled by certain other things, and +Spd Takumi means that I can't use my go-to counter on him. If you don't like that character, and he/she is a duplicate, merge with an existing character for lower promotion cost/SP/stat boost. 2. FE is a strategy game at heart. Between My Nintendo awards and free stuff, you shouldn't have to dip into orbs to revive your characters. If a map is truly unwinnable, use the option to Surrender - SP is a free resource, Light's Blessings are not. 3. I beat the snot out of both Narcians with 4*. The bulk of my arena team/high-level killers are 4*. One of them is Raigh, who I promoted from 3*. Learn how to use your units, rather than complain about it. This ties in directly with your previous point. 4. I haven't spent a penny on this game so far. Unless someone gives me a gift card, I won't spend a thing. The only thing I don't have is a godly arena ranking, but I think that's the least important part of the game. In other words, learn how the game works. Learn how your units work. This is still a Fire Emblem game, and Fire Emblem relies on strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erren Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 I completely understand that, but trying to get specific units in the game is the difficult part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, Erren said: I completely understand that, but trying to get specific units in the game is the difficult part. The biggest mistake in gacha is wanting a specific thing, if it's in a random pool. It's no different than wanting the roulette ball to land on 15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erren Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 you proved your point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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