Skill Inheritance Discussion.

[ILikeKirbys]

2 hours ago, BANRYU said:

Yeah I think Close Counter would definitely be what you want if you're running Quick Riposte to take advantage of that skill; otherwise, Fury works great TBH (Robin likes it with how balanced she is), I'd just go with a different B-skill-- and yeah definitely don't use Sol if you're running Gronnblade, charge counter of 5 is in no way worth it IMO. 

Mmm... No by the looks of things Wolf tomes are still the better answer for cavalry... It doesn't make much difference in matchups where Robin already has the advantage anyway, IE Reinhardt, but the difference in other matchups is pretty telling-- for perspective, Gronnwolf+ Robin 2HKOs neutral Eliwood, while Gronnblade with +4 Atk/Spd can't even manage that. With the same boosts, Gronnwolf Robin with Fury can ORKO every neutral Cavalry unit except Stahl, while keeping everything the same and swapping Wolf out for Blade loses KOs on Eliwood, Elise, Clarine, and loses outright to Leo. 

Wolf could have a niche. Eventually. Maybe.

That's true. I probably shouldn't have been running Quick Riposte with Fury... which leaves room for A Breaker (to help Robin deal with specific units, might even help her kill some non-cavs depending on what she picks) or Renewal (to try and offset Fury damage).

And... Damn, I didn't think Gronnwolf could win all of those. I assumed the Blues and Greens, and maybe the healers, would all evaporate if Robin threw wolfheads at them, but I thought Eliwood and Leo at least could take a wolfhead (and in Leo's case, counter back with a hard hit, leaving Robin vulnerable to being finished by another enemy afterward). Glad to hear she can't kill Stahl like that tho, since I run him on my cavalry team (though he can't kill her either, without G Tomebreaker). So, Gronnwolf is viable, and I shouldn't have dismissed it.

However, I still feel that F!Robin is better off running any one of these three builds for now:

1) Green M!Robin
Gronnraven | Command Skill | Bonfire or Ignis | Triangle Adept | A Breaker | C Skill
This build is what it sounds like: M!Robin, but green. Pick whichever Breaker lets Robin counter the most stuff your team has trouble with. Ignis is stronger than Bonfire, and might help with high-RES Greens, but Bonfire charges faster, so go with whatever you wish to. C Skill is flexible.

2) Magic Takumi
Gronnblade | Command Skill | Bonfire or Ignis | Close Counter | Quick Riposte or Vantage | C Skill
Given Close Counter and Quick Riposte/Vantage (QR to double stuff, Vantage to get the first shot when attacked), F!Robin is now deadly when counterattacked, and you are not safe from her counter unless you're running Firesweep Bow or Windsweep, and she's still strong on offense thanks to Gronnblade (and Bonfire/Ignis, if it's charged), making her kind of a Magic Takumi. Ignis might be workable here despite the 5-charge thanks to Quick Riposte, but Bonfire is most likely a better choice, and it's definitely better if you run Vantage. C Skill is flexible, but I recommend Threaten SPD, to make Robin even more like Takumi.

3) Tankblade
Gronnblade | Command Skill | Bonfire | Fury | Renewal/A Breaker | C Skill
This is something unique to F!Robin: A Gronnblade user who can take hits decently. Fury is used here for the higher stats, primarily giving Robin 32 SPD and DEF and 45 ATK before buffs, and Renewal can be chosen to offset Fury damage while Breakers are an alternative for dealing with specific units. Bonfire is here because Ignis would take too long to charge. C Skill is flexible here as well, but I would recommend Threaten SPD/RES to nerf enemies after they attack Robin.

I think any of those would be more practical than Gronnwolf, at least until Horse Emblem becomes more of a thing.

Although, when Gronnwolf becomes a better weapon to use due to the eventual proliferation of cavalry teams, what should Robin run with it? Should she run Fury to kill everything that isn't Stahl, or Close Counter to counterattack cavaliers since they're mostly physical units? Would she be better off with Renewal to offset Fury damage, or something else (Breakers seem kinda pointless here, since the only unit she can't ORKO with Fury is Stahl, and she can't get Swordbreaker, and I dunno what else could be run besides maybe Quick Riposte/Vantage if you picked Close Counter)? Would Ignis or Bonfire be better to help deal with non-cavs (I'm pretty sure popping either lets Robin kill Stahl)? How would you build Gronnwolf!F!Robin?

Edited April 18, 2017 by ILikeKirbys

[BANRYU]

Yeah don't get me wrong, Wolf tomes' niche is definitely metagame-dependent and right now I don't think Cav teams are widespread enough to warrant it (I haven't seen any, anyway). 

[ILikeKirbys]

27 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

Yeah don't get me wrong, Wolf tomes' niche is definitely metagame-dependent and right now I don't think Cav teams are widespread enough to warrant it (I haven't seen any, anyway). 

Neither have I, haha. I'm just curious, since once Xander and Camus come out (assuming they're good, which I'm certain at least Xander will be since he has Distant Counter built into his weapon) we'll probably see more cavalry teams (I fully expect to see Xander/Camus/Gunter/Cecilia at least once, since it's all free units and will probably be a good team too since it has Hone Cavalry and Distant Counter).

And on an unrelated note, I have a +SPD/-HP Elise that I plan to run on a Cavalry team for Defense maps (most likely alongside Hone Cavalry Stahl, Goad Cavalry Reinhardt, and Fortify Cavalry Frederick at the moment, but that might change once Xander/Camus/future cavs come out). I'm gonna give her Rehabilitate, ATK +3, Live to Serve and Ward Cavalry, but would I be better off giving her Pain, Fear or Slow? I know Elise has good ATK for a healer, and she'll be getting considerable boosts from Hone and Goad Cavalry, so she could maybe deal decent damage to low-RES enemies with Fear/Slow (Elise could maybe deal passable chip damage with Hone and Goad Cavalry even without Pain, plus she'll probably be doubling with her 45 SPD with Hone and Goad Cavalry buffs (41 with just Hone, 39 with just Goad), but even if Elise isn't doing much damage, her attack also helps my other units by nerfing enemy ATK/SPD), but Pain's extra post-combat damage would be useful too (but I'm not sure if Elise could hurt enemies with Pain... Outside of the automatic 10 post-combat damage, I mean). Not sure what to go with here.

[Ice Dragon]

Taking this question over here from the arena discussion thread since it's more relevant here:

I've run calcs on Cecilia, and still can't really decide if I want to run +Atk or +Spd. Indecisiveness is annoying. Her build looks like this:

• Weapon: Gronnblade+
• Assist: (whatever)
• Special: Moonbow? Draconic Aura?
• Passive A: Life and Death 3
• Passive B: (whatever)
• Passive C: (whatever)
• Passive S: (blank)

She'll have Hone Cavalry active at all times from Reinhardt... after I farm the SP to teach it to him.

The differences between +Atk and +Spd are (bolded are relevant):

Things +Atk kills that +Spd doesn't (at +10 with +0 Cecilia, enemies vanilla unless otherwise specified):

• +Res Seliph
• [=Atk, =Res] Leo
• +Res Effie
• +Spd Raven
• =Res Spring Chrom
• =Res Nino
• +Res Jeorge
• +Res Takumi
• +Res Matthew
• +Res Jaffar
• =Res Gaius
• +Spd Jakob
• +Res Kagero
• =Res Fury 3 Nino
• +Spd Spring Camilla with +6 Atk/Spd

Things +Spd kills that +Atk doesn't (at +10 with +0 Cecilia, enemies vanilla):

• =Spd Ogma
• +Spd Chrom
• +Spd Laslow
• +Spd Draug
• +Spd Cain
• +Spd Eldigan
• =Spd Bartr
• +Res Raven
• =Spd Arthur
• +Spd Sheena
• +Spd Camilla
• +Spd Julia
• +Spd Cecilia
• Fae
• Klein
• +Res Jakob

Against +0 enemies with +0 Cecilia, +Atk loses a lot of one-round kills against red units that +Spd out-speeds for the kill, but +Atk can one-hit kill any +0 Hector that isn't +HP or +Res.

The thing is that the rest of the team has coverage over all of the relevant misses, so it's really just what enemies I want overlap coverage for. +Spd namely lands one-round kills against a number of +0 sword users (covered by Reinhardt, who will be glued to her) and +10 Klein (covered by Sophia), whereas +Atk lands one-round kills against +10 +Res Effie (can be finished off by anyone) and +10 Nino (covered by Sophia).

Any opinions on which set matters more?

[BANRYU]

@Ice Dragon Aside from Rein who are this Cecilia's other teammates? I think who she's able to take out is gonna be heavily dependent on what her team is able to handle when the differences are so more or less equivocal between the two natures. 

EDIT: Oh wait you actually said at the bottom there. Hybrid cav team... interesting...

I guess it really just depends on which threats you feel are more commonplace / relevant, and/or on the survivability (bulk + mobility, ability to escape) of the teammates who her coverage overlaps with. I just don't think there's a definitively better answer here, which is... certainly an odd case. 

Edited April 18, 2017 by BANRYU

[Ice Dragon]

5 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

@Ice Dragon Aside from Rein who are this Cecilia's other teammates? I think who she's able to take out is gonna be heavily dependent on what her team is able to handle when the differences are so more or less equivocal between the two natures. 

+0 Sophia [+Atk, -Spd] (Raudhrraven+, Dragon Fang, Triangle Adept 3, G Tomebreaker 3, Fortify Res 3)

• G Tomebreaker 3 guarantees one-round kills against Julia and Spring Camilla and prevents them from attacking twice.
• Fortify Res 3 is filler.

+10 Ninian [+Spd, -Res] (Lightning Breath+, Dance, Triangle Adept 3, Escape Route 3, Fortify Dragons, S HP +3)

• Escape Route 3 and Fortify Dragons are filler.

+4 Reinhardt [+Atk, -Spd] (Dire Thunder, Blazing Thunder, Death Blow 3, Vantage 3, Hone Cavalry)

• Blazing Thunder and Vantage 3 are filler.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Ice Dragon

[BANRYU]

Yeah sorry I saw you mention them at the bottom, sorry I wasn't quicker on the edit. 

Looking at the list of threats again, I feel like Nino and Effie are the more pressing threats to address, personally. Camilla might be troublesome since you can't really fight her on counterattack but with Triangle Adept I don't think Sophia should really have any trouble tanking her even without being able to counter. 

[MrSmokestack]

@Ice Dragon, +Spd is probably better. The coverage vs Nino is somewhat redundant between Sophia's Res, Triangle Adept, and G Tomebreaker, though Reinhardt needs an Atk buff to ORKO +10 +Res Effie; this is easily fixed with Hone Atk on Ninian, which in all honesty should be a given on this team, if you want to. Then again, ORKO'ing armors isn't terribly important since their low movement is pretty easily exploited. If Effie is really an issue, though, the comparison boils down to her vs +Spd's KO's on Eldigan and Klein. Eldigan is worth addressing here due to Cecilia's WTD against him and his higher movement rating. The difference between the two variants is minuscule, yes, but at least +Spd's coverage is less redundant in my opinion.

Edited April 18, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[Ice Dragon]

3 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

this is easily fixed with Hone Atk on Ninian, which in all honesty should be a given on this team, if you want to.

The problem is that Ninian is running Fortify Dragons for my arena defense team and I don't have a second +10 Ninian to run an offensive buff on (but I'm getting closer).

On the other hand, the Atk buff could easily be provided by giving Cecilia Hone Cavalry (need to pull another Gunter, though) since Reinhardt and Cecilia are going to be glued together anyways. I think I'm actually going to follow through with this. (Time to pull some greens.)

 

@BANRYU @MrSmokestack

It looks like I'll be leaning towards +Spd, then. With the mention that Hone Cavalry on Cecilia would let Reinhardt land a one-round kill on Effie, I'm feeling that the extra assorted red kills and Eldigan and Klein do make for a good argument, and +Spd is more future-proof if I ever work on merging her (since she'll re-gain a lot of those assorted red kills against +10 reds when she reaches +10 herself).

Now I just have to make sure I can reliably lure Nino over to Sophia.

[MrSmokestack]

31 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The problem is that Ninian is running Fortify Dragons for my arena defense team and I don't have a second +10 Ninian to run an offensive buff on (but I'm getting closer).

On the other hand, the Atk buff could easily be provided by giving Cecilia Hone Cavalry (need to pull another Gunter, though) since Reinhardt and Cecilia are going to be glued together anyways. I think I'm actually going to follow through with this. (Time to pull some greens.)

@BANRYU @MrSmokestack

It looks like I'll be leaning towards +Spd, then. With the mention that Hone Cavalry on Cecilia would let Reinhardt land a one-round kill on Effie, I'm feeling that the extra assorted red kills and Eldigan and Klein do make for a good argument, and +Spd is more future-proof if I ever work on merging her (since she'll re-gain a lot of those assorted red kills against +10 reds when she reaches +10 herself).

Double-checking my calcs, I'm not sure where I made a mistake thinking +4 Atk on Reinhardt is enough to KO +Res +10 Effie; she survives with 12 HP without buffs and 4 with just Hone Atk. He would have needed the +6 from Hone Cavalry anyway to get the KO, actually, so good call.

[Ice Dragon]

8 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

Double-checking my calcs, I'm not sure where I made a mistake thinking +4 Atk on Reinhardt is enough to KO +Res +10 Effie; she survives with 12 HP without buffs and 4 with just Hone Atk. He would have needed the +6 from Hone Cavalry anyway to get the KO, actually, so good call.

You probably forgot to add 4 HP from the +10 merge bonuses. (Which is exactly what I just did trying to check your work.)

Edited April 19, 2017 by Ice Dragon

[MrSmokestack]

Just now, Ice Dragon said:

You probably forgot to add 4 HP from the +10 merge bonuses.

More like I accidentally gave Rein +10 merge, actually, instead of +4.

[Clogon]

8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

The problem is that Ninian is running Fortify Dragons for my arena defense team and I don't have a second +10 Ninian to run an offensive buff on (but I'm getting closer).

You could just switch skills when you are playing arena then switch back to def when you are not. :P

[Ice Dragon]

Just now, Clogon said:

You could just switch skills when you are playing arena then switch back to def when you are not. :P

That's a lot more work than I'm willing to put into this game.

[Clogon]

After days of training and SP farming, my Sharena is almost ready for battle! Sadly I don't have access to Quick Riposte 3. :(

Edit:

All SP is gained strictly from lv1 5* since I used all of her old SP as a 4* to gain her default skills before the SI announcement and implementations. :(

Edited April 19, 2017 by Clogon

[Extrasolar]

So I posted this in the general thread, but now that I think about it this probably belongs here. Forgot about this thread for a second, haha, my bad.

7 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

Alright, messing with builds with SI'ing my A team after thinning out a bunch of fodder I hadn't used yet, and I'm liking its performance so far. It's not quite finished, since I still have lots of skill spots open. Here's the current setup (all skills haven't been unlocked to max potential quite yet).

Spoilered for length.

  Hide contents

 

• 5* Alm
  • Special: Dragon Gaze
  • A: Life and Death 1
  • B: Swordbreaker 2
  • C: Threaten Defense 1
  • Seal: HP +3
     
•  5* Klein
  • Special: Chilling Wind
  • A: Death Blow 2
  • B: Bowbreaker 2 (Countering all those Takumis and Jeorges...)
  • C: (Open)
  • Seal: (Open)
     
•  5* M!Robin
  • Special: Bonfire
  • A: Defiant Speed 2
  • B: Poison Strike 1
  • C: (Open, but might just go ahead and grab Spur Defense)
  • Seal: (Open)
     
•  4* Cherche
  • Special: Glowing Ember
  • A: Attack +2 (likely going to replace this with something else, but I don't know what)
  • B: (Open)
  • C: Fortify Defense 2
  • Seal: (Open)

Any thoughts on this team? Does anyone have any suggestions for skills and things to put on these guys to make them even stronger?

 

[MaskedAmpharos]

10 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

So I posted this in the general thread, but now that I think about it this probably belongs here. Forgot about this thread for a second, haha, my bad.

I think Alm and Klein are fine, but I question M!Robin's skillset. 

If you have the fodder for it, I heavily recommend getting Triangle Adept in his A-slot as it completely trivializes reds and colorless (+Atk Takumi does 1 damage to him). But what bothers me even more is the Poison Strike in the B-slot. Poison Strike is rarely ever a good choice since it requires the target to survive for the skill to be useful, and in the current meta, you don't want enemies to survive even a single round of combat. Robin generally works best with a breaker in his B-slot to help him ORKO certain threats despite his speed. Swordbreaker and Lancebreaker are the most commonly run on Robin, but other alternatives include Bowbreaker, Daggerbreaker, and B Tomebreaker, to name a few (though I still recommend Swordbreaker or Lancebreaker if you can). If you change nothing else about your Robin, please at least switch out Poison Strike for a breaker. He'll be able to kill so many more people for you and be a lot more useful overall, I promise. 

Also, does your Cherche have a Brave Axe or is she vanilla?

Assuming you have the appropriate fodder, the set Cherche really wants is Brave Axe and Death Blow. You have a variety of choices for her B-slot, but the most common ones I see are either Wings of Mercy to help her teleport around or Drag Back to let her retreat after deleting someone. Something like Axebreaker is also an option to help her secure kills on bulkier units like Hector, though Alm should be handling axe units for the most part. 

[Extrasolar]

13 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

If you have the fodder for it, I heavily recommend getting Triangle Adept in his A-slot as it completely trivializes reds and colorless (+Atk Takumi does 1 damage to him).

Yeah, Poison Strike was kind of a "I have no idea what to put here" thing, just to stack on a bit more damage as Robin doesn't tend to 0HKO until Bonfire is up.

I do have a Selena fodder I could use to pass it on to him. So I'll get right on that.

13 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

Swordbreaker and Lancebreaker are the most commonly run on Robin, but other alternatives include Bowbreaker, Daggerbreaker, and B Tomebreaker, to name a few (though I still recommend Swordbreaker or Lancebreaker if you can).

Lucky for me I have a Sully fodder for Swordbreaker and an Arthur fodder for Lancebreaker. I assume that Swordbreaker would probably be the more useful choice, simply due to the huge presence of swords in the meta?

13 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

Also, does your Cherche have a Brave Axe or is she vanilla?

Assuming you have the appropriate fodder, the set Cherche really wants is Brave Axe and Death Blow. You have a variety of choices for her B-slot, but the most common ones I see are either Wings of Mercy to help her teleport around or Drag Back to let her retreat after deleting someone.

She's currently vanilla. Though I definitely have a Barst fodder I can use to give it to her. Unfortunately, I don't have any fodder with Death Blow (don't have a Hawkeye, or even an Effie that I would be a little hesitant to sacrifice), and putting that on her would require feeding her my Klein, and I definitely don't want to do that. Do you have any suggestions for a skill in its place? Or should I just fall back on the common Fury? I have another Life and Death fodder I could use, as well. Which one would be better on her in this situation/

I can definitely do Wings of Mercy from my Palla or Frederick fodder, and Drag Back from my Donnel fodder. Which one would be the better fit on her?

Edited April 19, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Ledrert]

Hello everyone, I need some advice about some of the ideas I have. Here's the thing.

The hero in question :

Alm(+1 (HP, Atk)) (+Spd -Def) | Falchion / Rally Atk / Dragonic Aura / Darting Blow 3 / (empty) / (empty) / Spd+1

My team is : M!Robin (+Spd -Def) (TA3,QR2) | Michalis(QR2,HP+3 as S Skill) | Lissa (+Res -Atk) (4*) (Res+3)

I was thinking of two skills for the B slot : Desperation and GTomebreaker. Here, he can double all units with 35 speed or less on my phase. That's good. So Desperation seems a good idea. But there's the thing : if I let Nino get boosted, she can literraly nuke all my team. I don't know how Alm can handle two hits from her. And she's the biggest threat of my team and a unit often seen in the current meta. S!Camilla too, but she's not as recurrent as Nino, and she's doubled by Alm everytime (without boost speed).

So... that's my point of view. What do you think ? And what will be a good C skill for him ? I was thinking of Hone or Spur Speed, but if you have any other good ideas...

[MaskedAmpharos]

4 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

*snip*

Swordbreaker vs Lancebreaker depends on what you need him to get rid of more. 

• If you go Swordbreaker, it cements Robin as a dedicated sword killer, but you can't do too much else with him.
• If you go Lancebreaker, Robin will be able to also take down lances but may miss some ORKOs on swords. 

Ultimately, for your team, I favor Lancebreaker for two reasons. The first is because you already have an Alm with Swordbreaker to take care of the ones Robin misses, and the second is because Triangle Adept Robin already heavily damages swords and takes little damage from them, so you could potentially hit a sword, tank a hit, then finish them off the next turn. 

That said, I'd ask around for other opinions too. Either one is a solid choice though, so you can't really go wrong picking one over the other. It's just a matter of what you need your Robin to deal with more. 

 

As for Cherche, I think she's fine with the basic Atk +3, but I'd really try to get a Brave Axe on her as soon as you can, even if it isn't a Brave Axe+ as her offense will skyrocket. WoM v Drag Back is again down to personal preference, and it really depends on your playstyle. WoM is better to finish off a target that Robin or Klein can't, and Drag Back is better if you're already securing kills with her.

Since your particular Cherche is only a 4*, she's less likely to be flying around solo, so I slightly favor WoM over Drag Back. 

[Shiro]

So this is my final product on setsuna. I plan to eventually get her to +10 merge in about a year when I finally get all the feathers I need xD any thoughts? My waifu Is complete and it feels good :3 The reason I picked Savage Blow over a threaten skill or a hone/fortify skill is because I prefer the splash damage and I could always use a buffer like ericka or ephriam. This Quadsuna is for nuking only :)

Edited April 19, 2017 by Shiro

[DehNutCase]

6 minutes ago, Shiro said:

So this is my final product on setsuna. I plan to eventually get her to +10 merge in about a year when I finally get all the feathers I need xD any thoughts? My waifu Is complete and it feels good :3

*snip image*

Luna tends to be better than Moonbow, Setsuna can't afford to save her special use for tougher enemies, so Luna every round should beat 2 Moonbows every... other round of combat or something?

Personally I prefer a buff skill on the C-slot versus AoE chip damage, but Savage Blow is fine.

Build looks fine---if Moonbow works for you, keep on sticking with it, not too different from Luna anyway.

Edited April 19, 2017 by DehNutCase

[Shiro]

27 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Luna tends to be better than Moonbow, Setsuna can't afford to save her special use for tougher enemies, so Luna every round should beat 2 Moonbows every... other round of combat or something?

Personally I prefer a buff skill on the C-slot versus AoE chip damage, but Savage Blow is fine.

Build looks fine---if Moonbow works for you, keep on sticking with it, not too different from Luna anyway.

Well I rushed moonbow so thats why I have that. I plan to save more sp for more skills eventually though :) and luna will be on that list. A buff skill seems viable as well but reason for savage blow is that most of my units wont be able to 1hko so savage blow really helps. 

[MaskedAmpharos]

37 minutes ago, Shiro said:

So this is my final product on setsuna. I plan to eventually get her to +10 merge in about a year when I finally get all the feathers I need xD any thoughts? My waifu Is complete and it feels good :3 The reason I picked Savage Blow over a threaten skill or a hone/fortify skill is because I prefer the splash damage and I could always use a buffer like ericka or ephriam. This Quadsuna is for nuking only :)

Oh my, very nice :O

I'd go with Luna over Moonbow, as DehNutCase said, but aside from that she looks great!

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, Shiro said:

So this is my final product on setsuna. I plan to eventually get her to +10 merge in about a year when I finally get all the feathers I need xD any thoughts? My waifu Is complete and it feels good :3 The reason I picked Savage Blow over a threaten skill or a hone/fortify skill is because I prefer the splash damage and I could always use a buffer like ericka or ephriam. This Quadsuna is for nuking only :)

If you're planning on bringing her to +10, you'll want to either switch out Ardent Sacrifice for Reciprocal Aid or merge into a -HP base. =HP Setsuna has 41 HP at +10, which will cause Ardent Sacrifice to fail to activate Desperation.