FE6 Tierlist 2017

[ping]

Honestly, the +2 hit and avoid is so meaningless that the only reason not to sell a Goddess Icon is for avoiding low% crits. Saul might be able to be slightly less cautious about counter attacks; Lance has only 2 base Luck as well; you already mentioned Rutger... But most of the time, turning it into an Angelic Robe by chapter 16 or any statbooster in 21 seems more advantageous.

1 hour ago, Clarutger said:

Unless you're really unlucky or didn't level him to level 10 by chapter 7(that level by chapter seven is so easy), you'll survive. Especially if you used the goddess icon on him.

I'd consider training Chad up to level 10 a waste of XP. Why would I bother with a unit who will never be good at combat, whose stealing ability doesn't depend on his stats, and who (whom? my grammar is weak sometimes) I can replace with the completely superior Astore pretty soon? Chad gets one-shot by soldiers in the chapter he joins. He has trouble even scratching the cavaliers on Erik's map. Feeding him kills is not fun.

Why is it a waste of XP if Marcus sets up kills for other characters (unlike Chad, he can actually weaken enemies, in addition to surviving gusts of wind and countering at 1-2 range), but not to actively train up a unit that will never be actually good at fighting? Even if you funnel all the XP into Chad, ignoring better growth units like Alan, Lance, Deke, Shanna, Rutger or even Lugh, he'll still be a) swordlocked and b) capped at level 20.

[Shadow Mir]

48 minutes ago, Refa said:

Does anyone benefit from the Goddess Icon in particular?  Only person who comes to mind is Rutger, as enemies sometimes have a low % chance of critting him.

Beats me. Rutger's the only one I see benefitting, really.

 

12 hours ago, Clarutger said:

Marcus is way over rated. Poor growths and will drag your entire team down if you choose to waste your exp on him early game. Maybe if you have no skill I can see him being a 10/10, but early game is completely manageable with a decent amount of skill.

 

Chapter seven solution: throw Chad on a tree and he works as aggro that most everything swarms to, dodges just about everything, and keeps your allies alive.

 

Before that chapter just abuse the halberd you get in chapter three with lot.

No need for Marcus.

Lmfao

Did chapter 7 suddenly abandon the notion of variety and just stick to axe users? No? Then you're basically advising us to stick a fragile unit in a forest and hope to get lucky. That might work against axe users, which tend to be inaccurate and get skullfucked by WTD, but not so much when you face weapons that are actually accurate or have WTA.

As for chapter 4, Lot with the halberd is hardly what I'd call reliable, hence I have to luck out once again.

Anyways...

1.5/10 for Douglas. He's like a stone wall in Sacae, to the nomads at least, and he hits hard as well, but that's about it.

4/10 for Zeiss. Comes a day late and a dollar short, and D weapon rank does him no favours, nor does the fact that the route split skullfucks him either way (that said, he might be able to do something in Ilia).

Niime - 7.5/10. Not much for me to say that someone else hadn't said already.

Dayan: 4/10. A solid filler unit who wrecks wyverns' shit, which is handy since chapter 21 has boatloads of them.

Yuno: 1/10. She can be used as a ferrybot, though that's pretty much all she has going for her.

[-Cynthia-]

Douglas- Doesn't double things, has low movement, has questionable accuracy. His weapon ranks/Str/Def are good I guess- maybe he can kill things with Brave weapons but that just makes the accuracy issues worse. 1.5/10

Zeiss- Bit of a training period to promote and go up a lance rank, but a level 7 units gets levels fast at this stage of the game. Way more durable than any of the pegs, so can act as a second Miledy (albeit with less doubling). Combat is much better in Ilia, though flight utility is still useful even if he's not used as a combat unit. I think people kinda overrate the pegs' combat ability compared to him- the Str/Def difference is pretty huge. 7/10

Niime- Has massive Warp range, particularly with Apocalypse. She's probably your only S rank Dark user so she can also OHKO Manaketes and stuff. An Angelic Robe on her also makes her a good Nosferatank. Availability does leave something to be desired, but she's a gamechanger when she arrives IMO. 7.5/10

Dayan- Good weapon ranks, speed, and a horse make him passable filler, though Str is lowish. Not bad at all, but a late joiner with OK combat doesn't bring that much to the table overall. 3/10

Juno- Her combat is just terrible, but at least she can ferry...though so can four other units by this time. Might get some use out of her for a chapter or two, though a number of lategame chapters are indoors anyway. 1.5/10

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I'm going to make a second list where only people voted steadily and gave reasonable explanations. I'll only consider votes by these people:

• General Horace
• Irysa
• Cynthia
• Jedi
• Shin
• ping
• Levant Mir Celestia (?)
• Colonel M.
• Magillanica Lou Mayvin

I want to cut the outliers to have a more realistic comparison because they distorted the result. Also a few of the votes were made just by having sympathy towards the unit which is not the purpose of a tierlist.

PS: Other people can still submit their votes for al the characters if they can give at least reasonable explanations.

Comments which don't deal with the unit's quality like these

Quote

Giving Cath a 8 because I like her character

or

Quote

Treck: booooring

will be ignored.



New tierlist

Spoiler

God-tier (9-10)

• Miledy 9.71
• Elphin / Lalum 9

 

Top-tier (8-8.99)

• Rutger 8.92
• Marcus 8.89
• Percival 8.64
• Saul 8
• Shin 8

 

High-tier (7-7.99)

• Shanna 7.83
• Alan 7.69
• Niime 7.57
• Lance 7.5
• Dieck 7.31
• Clarine 7.08

 

Up-mid-tier (5.5-6.99)

• Tate 6.93
• Zealot 6.63
• Astol 6.36
• Cecilia 6.29
• Noah 6
• Sue 6
• Zeiss 5.86
• Echidna 5.79
• Klein 5.79

 

Mid-tier (4-5.49)

• Ellen 5.38
• Lugh 5.25
• Igrene 5.21
• Batre 4.64
• Fir 4.64
• Treck 4.38
• Chad 4.25
• Roy 4.06

 

Low-mid-tier (2.5-3.99)

• Lot 3.69
• Gonzales 3.44
• Fae 3.21
• Garrett 3.07
• Dayan 3
• Lilina 2.71

 

Low-tier (1-2.49)

• Raigh 2.43
• Oujey 2.21
• Hugh 1.93
• Cath 1.86
• Wolt 1.83
• Dorothy 1.81
• Douglas 1.71
• Geese 1.71
• Ward 1.69
• Yuno 1.29
• Bors 1.19

 

Bottom-tier (0-0.99)

• Barth 0.64
• Sophia 0.57
• Wendy 0.13

 

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Magillanica Lou Mayvin

[Colonel M]

16 hours ago, Clarutger said:

 

Unless you're really unlucky or didn't level him to level 10 by chapter 7(that level by chapter seven is so easy), you'll survive. Especially if you used the goddess icon on him.

Being generous:

10 Chad: 23.65 HP | 7.5 Str | 7.5 Skl | 17.2 Spd | 9.4 Luck | 4.25 Def | 1.35 Res

I also gave the benefit of the doubt with the Goddess Icon for you, which is 11.4 Luck by the way.

Iron Sword: 12.5 Atk, 104 Hit, 17 AS, 45 Avo
Steel Sword: 15.5 Atk, 89 Hit, 12 AS, 35 Avo
Armorslayer: 15.5 Atk, 99 Hit, 11 AS, 33 Avo

My personal reference: +1/-1 Atk if WTA / WTD, +10/-10 Hit if WTA / WTD.

Alright, let's look at some of these scenarios:
 

Vs Knights

Knights: 6

3 L6, 1 w/ Steel Lance, 1 w/ Steel Lance + Vulnerary, 1 w/ Javelin (-4 Atk)

19-20 Atk, 68-70 Hit, 3 Crit----25-27 Hp, 12 Def, 0-1 Res, 7-8 Avo, 2 AS, 3-4 CEV

3 L7 w/ Javelin

17 Atk, 69-71 Hit, 3 Crit----27-29 Hp, 12-13 Def, 0-1 Res, 7-8 Avo, 2 AS, 3-4 CEV

For reference, this would be Armorslayer Chad after WTD taken into effect:

Armorslayer: 28.5 Atk (8 Mt - 1 WTD = 7x3 = 21+7=28), 89 Hit, 23 Avo

Armor Knights will die in one round regardless of the scenario. In exchange, Chad suffers 46% displayed. CoD may seem non-existent until you realize that the Javelin could attack Chad on the Enemy Phase. Thus, 42.78% True Hit. Chance of Death to two hits if a healer is not nearby is 18.3%. That's pretty high for calling him a unit that can "dodge tank" easily. That means he has to rely on Forests to avoid counterattacks, and Armor Knights aren't always nearby those.

Let's move on to Cavaliers.

Cavaliers: 5

3 L7 w/ Iron Sword & Javelin (+1 Atk, -30 Hit, -2 AS/-4 Avo)

14-15 Atk, 100-103 Hit, 3-4 Crit----30-31 Hp, 8 Def, 1-2 Res, 21-22 Avo, 9 AS, 3-4 CEV

2 L9 w/ Steel Sword & Javelin (-2 Atk, -15 Hit, -1 AS/-2 Avo)

17-18 Atk, 88-90 Hit, 4 Crit----31-33 Hp, 8 Def, 1-2 Res, 20-21 Avo, 8 AS, 4-5 CEV

Let's start this time again with Chad attacking. With Iron Sword he will always double. Against Iron Sword Cavaliers he will do 4x2 damage, or 8 damage. That's about a... 4RKO. Meanwhile, Steel Sword... doesn't double Iron Sword Cavaliers. Yup, 12 AS is just one Speed short of doubling. That means they have to wield Javelins to have Chad double, which means risking to eat a counterattack. In the event they wield Javelins Steel Sword Chad does 6x2, or 12 damage a round. That's a 3RKO. In the exchange, if we assume Steel Sword Chad for the Javelin scenario the Cavaliers have about 70-73 Hit. That means... about the same chances of death as they were with the Armor Knights. There's also something worse about this scenario - the Iron Sword Cavaliers have 65% Displayed, or 75.85% True Hit. The good news is the Iron Sword Cavaliers avoid 2HKOing Chad. The bad news is the chance of death steadily increases. Oh, and when Chad goes to attack on the player phase he's doing 5x2 damage, or 10 with Steel Sword. That's potentially a 4RKO again.

 

He won't double the Mercenaries with Steel ever and they have a lot higher Hit against Chad (112-113 Hit) and Mages also have decent Hit against him while easily 2HKOing him from a distance.

For your "strategy" to work Chad has to sit in the forests, and considering that Cavaliers and Armor Knights can constantly throw Javelins there is absolutely no way that Chad can "solo" since Chad cannot counterattack at two range.

 

Oh but we haven't gotten to the main course:

Dragon Knights: 3

1 L8 w/ Steel Lance & Javelin (-4 Atk, +2 AS/+4 Avo): 24 Atk, 78 Hit, 5 Crit----33 Hp, 12 Def, 1 Res, 20 Avo, 7 AS, 6 CEV

1 L9 w/ Steel Lance: 24 Atk, 80 Hit, 5 Crit----34 Hp, 13 Def, 0 Res, 22 Avo, 8 AS, 6 CEV

1 L10 w/ Steel Lance + Red Gem: 24 Atk, 80 Hit, 5 Crit----34 Hp, 13 Def, 1 Res, 22 Avo, 8 AS, 6 CEV

For laziness sakes we'll just take the Steel Lance for comparison. Iron Sword can't even touch the Level 8 Wyvern Knight and sees 53% displayed (56.29% true) when using Steel. That means CoD is... 31.68%. And Steel Sword Chad does double 2s in exchange. Pathetic.

 

Look, I'm all for valuing units that are constantly thrown under the bus (Tate for example), but the arguments you're bringing for Chad are absolutely terrible with little concrete evidence. Even with the generosity of a Goddess Icon Chad is contributing absolutely nothing outside of being able to ORKO Armor Knights with Armorslayer - something that Deke, Rutger, and Marcus can do while being more durable in the process and not relying on "Forest tiles".

[Clarutger]

On 3/29/2017 at 10:43 AM, Magillanica Lou Mayvin said:

It's very unlikely and also not needed to give Chad that many levels till chapter 7. Level 3-4 is his standard.
Also other units, relevant for endgame, want to have status items more.
 

In chapter 5 you put him on the fort next to the mountain and in chapter and in chapter 4 you set him on the fort where the pirates spawn. Easy level 10 by chapter 7.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Clarutger

[Clarutger]

On 3/29/2017 at 11:41 AM, ping said:

Honestly, the +2 hit and avoid is so meaningless that the only reason not to sell a Goddess Icon is for avoiding low% crits. Saul might be able to be slightly less cautious about counter attacks; Lance has only 2 base Luck as well; you already mentioned Rutger... But most of the time, turning it into an Angelic Robe by chapter 16 or any statbooster in 21 seems more advantageous.

I'd consider training Chad up to level 10 a waste of XP. Why would I bother with a unit who will never be good at combat, whose stealing ability doesn't depend on his stats, and who (whom? my grammar is weak sometimes) I can replace with the completely superior Astore pretty soon? Chad gets one-shot by soldiers in the chapter he joins. He has trouble even scratching the cavaliers on Erik's map. Feeding him kills is not fun.

Why is it a waste of XP if Marcus sets up kills for other characters (unlike Chad, he can actually weaken enemies, in addition to surviving gusts of wind and countering at 1-2 range), but not to actively train up a unit that will never be actually good at fighting? Even if you funnel all the XP into Chad, ignoring better growth units like Alan, Lance, Deke, Shanna, Rutger or even Lugh, he'll still be a) swordlocked and b) capped at level 20.

A lot of the time he can't set up kills due to the fact that he ORKO's everyone early game, and you also have to take into account the weapon levels hell be robbing of others by simply setting up kills for them. Lance usually has a D and almost C by chapter 7, something that might not be possible had Marcus steam plowed. 

Chad is broken early game because no one can hit him, whilst he doesn't steal kills from other characters. If you invested enough time in him that is.

[ping]

(suboptimal timing on the right one, but that's a 13 under the x2)

[Clarutger]

8 minutes ago, ping said:

(suboptimal timing on the right one, but that's a 13 under the x2)

Nice evidence. Taking one particular instance and projecting it on to the entire early game.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Clarutger

[Clarutger]

9 hours ago, Colonel M said:

Being generous:

10 Chad: 23.65 HP | 7.5 Str | 7.5 Skl | 17.2 Spd | 9.4 Luck | 4.25 Def | 1.35 Res

I also gave the benefit of the doubt with the Goddess Icon for you, which is 11.4 Luck by the way.

Iron Sword: 12.5 Atk, 104 Hit, 17 AS, 45 Avo
Steel Sword: 15.5 Atk, 89 Hit, 12 AS, 35 Avo
Armorslayer: 15.5 Atk, 99 Hit, 11 AS, 33 Avo

My personal reference: +1/-1 Atk if WTA / WTD, +10/-10 Hit if WTA / WTD.

Alright, let's look at some of these scenarios:
 

Vs Knights

 

 

 

[ping]

That's chapter 1, and as a rule of thumb, enemy stats tend to go up over the course of the game. Marcus has 14 Atk at base €: with an Iron Sword, so looking at this, he only one-rounds enemy fighters who roll both minimal HP (26-28) and Def (2-4).

And I'll quote myself here:

On 29.3.2017 at 5:41 PM, ping said:

Why is it a waste of XP if Marcus sets up kills for other characters (unlike Chad, he can actually weaken enemies, in addition to surviving gusts of wind and countering at 1-2 range), but not to actively train up a unit that will never be actually good at fighting? Even if you funnel all the XP into Chad, ignoring better growth units like Alan, Lance, Deke, Shanna, Rutger or even Lugh, he'll still be a) swordlocked and b) capped at level 20.

Even if Marcus does kill an enemy or three, that's still less XP "wasted" than if you feed Chad friggin 900 XP.

Edited March 30, 2017 by ping

[Interdimensional Observer]

Hugh I pity.

In a vacuum, he doesn't seem so bad. He is a balance between Lugh and Lilina, and by 20/20, I daresay he outdoes Lugh with his notable durability lead +9 HP and +4-6 Defense lead.

Unfortunately he is a growth unit who joins seriously far too late (so does Zeiss) and his stats are too balanced and low to start. The gold cost is just the cherry on top of his problems that make people really hate him.

As someone else said, make him a 20/1-5 Sage with his averages at that level and he'd be good. I'd also add a D Staff and A Anima, cut back on his Magic a little, and increase his initial durability. Though that might be a little too good and make Cecilia, Lugh, and Lilina a little obsoleted towards the end by him.

Mind you I've never played FE6, but I've glimpsed over all the info on this site enough to develop sympathy for Hugh for some reason.

Gwendolyn I have no such attachment to. Nor Sophia.

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Clarutger said:

A lot of the time he can't set up kills due to the fact that he ORKO's everyone early game, and you also have to take into account the weapon levels hell be robbing of others by simply setting up kills for them. Lance usually has a D and almost C by chapter 7, something that might not be possible had Marcus steam plowed. 

Chad is broken early game because no one can hit him, whilst he doesn't steal kills from other characters. If you invested enough time in him that is.

I'm gonna call bullshit here - most of what you see after Chad joins is swords and lances. And need I point out that one hit puts him at death's door?

1 hour ago, Clarutger said:

 

And this proves what exactly? That honestly is a terrible strategy since Chad can't do anything back. 

Anyways:

Fae - 3.5/10. Being restricted to 30 attacks sucks, but she has her uses.

Percival - 8.5/10. Solid unit that can easily fit into any team.

Igrene - 5.5/10. Solid filler unit who can wreck with Killer Bows and the Brave Bow.

Garret - 3/10. Being locked to axes hurts, but he doesn't need the effort that Geese or Gonzales do.

Hugh - 2.5/10. Requires you to buy his bases, and it doesn't help that Guiding Rings are hotly contested.

[Shin]

You might as well do Yodel and Karel with this bunch, I can't imagine there's too much to consider for a staff bot and a guy who literally exists for a chapter and a half.

Douglas - He can possibly act as filler in Sacae or Ilia, but he's really slow and getting doubled ruins any durability he might have. He's madatory for 16x, but I can't say he helps in any real way but he's better than Barth maybe. 1.5/10

Zeiss - He's not a bad alternative for a flier, but he's outclassed by everyone before him and his level deficit means he needs a little investment. His speed isn't exactly stellar, but his stats are decent for the most part, especially his strength! 4.5/10

Niime - A staffbot who can just about manage in combat. She's not particularly good at dodging and she's really fragile, but she can pick off enemies when she's not using a staff. Pretty much the best user for Apocaclypse, although more for staff hijinks than anything else. She is absent for most of the game, but she can help out when she's present. 6/10

Dayan - Actually really good filler. His growths are pretty trashy, but he can take out Wyverns with a decent bow. He doubles most things except like swordies, and has good ranks. Worse than Shin/Sue and you've used them to get him anyway. 4/10

Yuno - I tried using her in my chumps run, she was awful. She can't deal damage, her durability is poor and she's not actually particularly fast. Easily the worst flier in the game, she's not much better than Tate at base. Whilst she requires no investment, you get almost nothing from her. Even Wendy can be babied to become a bad unit, Yuno is just trash. 0/10

[Heptade]

I won't give any grades, but I'll say one thing.

Ten years ago, units were judged solely on their 20/20 stats. It was later established to be wrong. But the actual trend is to judge units solely on their performance when they first join, which isn't that much better.

How can a character like Marcus, who, even in Normal mode, is pretty much unusable for the later half of the game, be rated 9 or 10? He's borderline essential in the first few chapters, I get it, but shouldn't late-game value be considered in ratings as well?

Lilina being low-mid tier strikes me as odd, too. Yeah, she'll be trash in her first 3 or so chapters, but, being ranged, she's rather easy to train and to keep safe despite her crappy defense. Once she catches up, her insane magic will destroy the enemy, especially since enemy Res is practically non-existent for most physical enemies.

Marcus will be good in about 10 chapters, while Lilina has the potential to be good for at least 15 chapters.

I wonder if, 10 years from now, fans will look at today's Jeigan-worshipping with the same contempt we have when we look at FE6's character guide from GameFAQs.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Yodel
Bases + Growths
Level 20 Bishop
HP: 35
Magic: 19
Skill: 18
Speed: 14
Luck: 11
Defense: 5
Resistance: 30
Similar to Niime but with worse base magic and less availibility. Also only has A in light magic so it’ll be a very hard task to make him use Aureola. As a stave user still good enough.
6


Karel
Bases + Growths
Level 19 Swordmaster
HP: 44 (210)
Strength: 20 (130)
Skill: 28 (140)
Speed: 23 (140)
Luck: 18 (120)
Defense: 15 (110)
Resistance: 13 (100)
Almost maxed swordmaster with good bases aside of speed. Joins too late to rate him.
no rating

Merlinus
Bases + Growths
Level 1 Transporter
HP: 15 (100)
Magic: 0 (0)
Skill: 3 (50)
Speed: 3 (50)
Luck: 10 (100)
Defense: 3 (20)
Resistance: 0 (5)
Only exists to have access to the inventory within the chapter or to visit villages.
no rating

 

Quote

What does it bring to let Chad dodgetank in chapter 7? You have to fight the enemies anyways to recruit Zealot and Treck and to come to the boss.
I give you that: Disarmed and rised Chad can somewhat tank lances because their accuracy suck, but against sword (like each cavalier has) and he won't hold his shit together for too long.
Another point against leveling Chad in the beginning is that he has no promotion. You can rise him very well in the desert against the reinforcement brigands.
 

Quote

Marcus will be good in about 10 chapters, while Lilina has the potential to be good for at least 15 chapters.

You have to see it in this way that the earlygame has higher priority because of the difficulty. Earlygame, especially ch. 4+7 are really tough. Marcus will carry all your units alive through the earlygame.

Also Lilina is terrible in Sacae due to her awful speed.

[General Horace]

wrt to Marcus being rated highly: Sure, he's bad lategame, but he's leaps and bounds better for the first 1/3rd of the game or so than the rest of your team.  Compare someone like Percival, who's like say a 9/10 unit for his entire existance to Marcus.  Marcus is basically a 15/10 early on (especialyl during maps like chapter 4 where 3/4ths of your team does no damage) which boosts his usefulness immensely.  The gap in performance in a strong earlygame unit is huge, if you compare Marcus to Alan earlygame and Percival to Alan lategame, the gap in performace is enormous in Marcus's favour, and only slightly better in Percival's case.  

Yodel - Holy Maiden somehow manages to be a useful S rank staff (something that IS has struggled to make) and he's still a very decent warper.  His combat is bad outside of chipping a dude for 30/40% of their health but it isn't really needed.  Not around for very long though.  4.5/10

Karel - can kill dragons with wyrmslayer/durandal but being unmounted and bootsless hurts him.  1/10

Merlinus - Can't really rate him, but can make funny plays with his immortality and some convoy manipulation that doesn't really do a whole lot outside of LTC.  unrated/10

[Shadow Mir]

Yodel: 5/10. Decent warper, and Holy Maiden is the one thing that IntSys has phailed at making in recent years, or pretty much ever - a useful S rank staff.

Abstain from rating Karel and Merlinus.

[Irysa]

Yodel - 6.5/10

His staff range is better than what Saul is going to have, guaranteed, which matters a lot for the lategame maps. It enables a lot more flexability and speed when clearing 21, can help free up Niime to chug boots in 21x, lets you use infantry units to help get the left switch of 22, and helps with Rescue for 23. He can also status more accurately at range, which whilst less important, is still pretty helpful in the lategame.

In an efficient playthrough, it's very difficult for anyone else to reach S staves, so it's basically his Prf, which gives him a big boost again due to how strong it is; it notably helps massively in Chapters 23 (removes all Status) and 24 (makes sure nobody is dying to a Manakete), but has more applications than it has uses really. His combat isnt great but it's not really terrible either...having access to Purge at base is somewhat useful if you choose to buy some with leftover cash.

Karel - 1/10

Solid combat with Durandal or Wyrmslayer is typically not something you really have a lack of at the end of the game, but at least his capacity to do that kind of stuff puts him above Wendy and Sophia.

Merlinus - 8/10

Yeah man I'm actually going to rate him. Convoywarping and acting as bait are good, but really the main boon he has is that he enables you to sell loads of stuff on the map, which is neccessary since FE6 HM has no base shop. If it wasn't for him you'd basically need to hold people back with full inventories of junk to sell on various maps, and may even have to wait a bunch of extra turns to be able to actually buy as many boots as you'd want.

[Heptade]

4 hours ago, Magillanica Lou Mayvin said:

 

You have to see it in this way that the earlygame has higher priority because of the difficulty. Earlygame, especially ch. 4+7 are really tough. Marcus will carry all your units alive through the earlygame.

Also Lilina is terrible in Sacae due to her awful speed.

I agree that he is basically essential in those early chapters, but still, I don't believe that a character that is useless for two thirds of the game (while being available in said two thirds) should be considered a near-perfect unit, which is what a 9 implies. I don't think he is a bad unit overall, but I also believe that the fact that he has less endgame potential than Sophia should have at least some impact on his rating. Then again, that's just my opinion.

Just looked at Lilina's speed growth... Damn you're right! I got biased by my ridiculously speed-blessed Lilina (she maxed it at 20/13). Still, I do believe that a unit with such high magic in a game where the enemy has crap resistance deserves better than her actual rating. Maybe I'm a scrub, though.

[Irysa]

Marcus isn't "useless" for 2/3 of the game, he's an amazing unit for about 9 maps, then a great one for another 6. He's okay after that if you got to Ilia (Silver and Brave Lance save his offence) before becoming pure utlity come Chapter 21, although he's admittedly terrible in all of Sacae. Still, that's well over half the game and he needs zero special treatment to do that.

Lilina comparatively is below average for about 6 maps, then okay to decent for the rest of the game, but she has opportunity cost that Marcus doesn't have. She has no real amazeballs moments at all, and her niche of crit bolting is way too small to be weighted heavily in a rating.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Irysa

[Refa]

Please count my votes, senpai.

Roy: He's good in Chapter 4, passable in the earlier chapters of the isles, and good enough after he promotes.  It benefits the player greatly to give him EXP when they can, moreso because it helps his survivability, but he doesn't really do too much with that in the long run.  3.5/10

Marcus: Without him, Chapters 4 and 7 are ridiculously hard.  Chapters 1 and 5 (if you're going the short way)  are significantly harder without him.  He's your best mounted combat unit until Alance catch up to him (which is Chapter 9, since that's when they ORKO w/Steel Swords while he misses out).  He's your best combat unit PERIOD until Rutger joins in Chapter 4.  Yeah, he drops off around when you get Percival, but just...replace him with Percival.  I don't view dropping off after you get the two most statistically powerful units in the game as a significant flaw considering I (personally) literally cannot beat the game without him.  10/10

Wolt: His mediocre chip damage is never necessary early on.  I think he can promote into a worse Klein, which isn't very useful at all.  2/10

Alan: One of your better combat units early on with some pretty nice base stats that Wolt and Bors would very much like to have.  He can score some ORKO's that Lance can't on Soldiers early on, which helps bolster his EXP gain further.  There are few units early on who need EXP more than him and Lance, although it's best to use only one for the best results.  Biggest flaw is that he's never the best combat unit (which he shares with Lance) unless you promote him before the isles, and barely ORKOes until the isles regardless. 8/10

Lance: He's extremely similar to Alan, but faster and with better hit.  Personally I prefer him because even though I view the Speed lead as less significant than Alan's Strength lead, since +4% hit is just really nice when attacking archers/mercs.  He also gets 2HKOed in Chapter 1, which blows.  7.5/10

Bors: He can rescue Roy and do some decent chip in the first five chapters (provided he can reach, which isn't guaranteed).  He's ironically pretty bad defensively, solely because everything and their mother doubles him.  Not really worth deploying after that, but at least he did SOMETHING before then.  1/10

Ellen: She'd be better than Saul if she had C staves, but unfortunately she does not.  Still, being your first staffbot and being able to heal in the earlier chapters is invaluable, even if her counterparts don't join too much later than she does.  4/10

Dieck: I know he's just a foot unit but I don't think his contributions get enough merit.  He's one of your best damage dealing units early on and is second only to Rutger in bosskilling.  He's also one of your best combat units early on, and honestly can continue to be useful throughout the entire game if you choose to promote him. 7/10

Lott: He's a decent filler unit while he's still doubling and potentially ORKOing soldiers, in addition to dealing good chip damage.  I don't think he's worth deploying over even whichever of Alan/Lance you're not using (so a low level 3-4 cavalier) because being able to kill the weakest enemy type is unimpressive and I'd prefer to feed those easy kills to units I'm going to use in the longterm.  A special note should be given to how he can potentially make Chapter 4 significantly easier by OHKOing Lance Cavaliers at around ~60% hit with the Halberd.  Apparently he's decent against wyverns in the late game, but I wouldn't know.  3.5/10

Ward: He's like Lott but fails to double soldiers and even knights sometimes.  Good fucking job, moron.  He can also use the Halberd with worse hit than Lott, but it's still potentially useful.  2/10

Shanna: More useful for being able to fly over her mediocre combat (at first, anyways).  However, it's worth feeding her as her fighting does get a lot better later on, especially after Killer Lances become available.  Early promoting her before the isles is an option, although I generally prefer to wait until ~15.  The fact that she has that option at all is very nice, though, and lets her work on her sword rank earlier than usual.  8.5/10

Chad: A combination of poor base stats and not being able to promote ruin whatever combat potential he might have had.  He does get you 2k, the Halberd, all of the chests in Chapter 6 should you so desire, and a Red Gem in Chapter 7, but after that there's no reason to deploy him over Astohl, especially considering Chest Keys become readily available at the start of Chapter 8.  3.5/10

Lugh: Not the best base stats, but he has nice chip in Chapter 4 and is very easy to feed due to Fire's insane accuracy.  After he promotes, his combat improves a good deal as well (especially after Aircalibur becomes readily available).  Probably the best unpromoted magic user in the game, which isn't saying much.  4.5/10

Clarine: Like with Ellen, she'd be far better if her base rank was C.  D doesn't really allow her to do much else besides Heal, although being mounted means she can do mounted things like rescue and uh...support Rutger (definitely a mounted thing).  Her poor magic growth impedes her healing ability as well, although she at least become quite good at dodging at later levels (which is something she has over other staff users, even if she shouldn't be getting into combat).  6/10

Rutger: Has ridiculous combat parameters and can generally either ORKO or severely weaken anything with a Killing Edge (not to say that he does bad with other weapons though; that's far from the case).  Later on, he can nick Fir's Wo Dao which is locked to those two units (until Karel, anyways).  His boss killing is where he's most invaluable, however, as it's something that Dieck can't replicate (due to the +30% crit he gets on promotion).  9/10

Dorothy: Has better growths than Wolt, but if you're using him, then he'll have better base stats that she'll have to catch up to come Chapter 6.  1.5/10

Saul: C base staves is godly, especially this early in the game.  His only weaknesses are a low magic base (better than the other healers, but 4 magic for a level 5 unit is still shit lol) and not much luck (the latter is pretty minor, but it does hurt his dodging if he does engage in combat post promotion), but other than that, he's pretty good.  8/10

Sue: Her combat is fairly weak starting out, but she can safely chip at enemies and work on improving her strength and bow rank.  By the time you get Shin, she could have better combat than him due to being able to use Killers.  Obviously, besides that, his combat is mostly better than her, although it's worth noting that their endgame performance is very similar.  I feel like she gets underrated a lot in these sorts of lists.  7/10

Zealot: While he's not around for the hardest part of the game like Marcus is, he's still a prepromote Paladin (very good) with slightly better combat parameters and does help out quite a bit in Chapter 7.  After that, he's pretty good until you get Percival, which is where Marcus drops off as well.  7/10

Treck: He's like an underleveled Alan who joins later.  His bases aren't particularly great, but he has okay growths (sans speed) and I could see him being useable if you put a lot of effort leveling him up in Chapter 8 and the Western Isles.  4/10

Noah: He'll always be a second stringer (compared to Alan and Lance, who have the potential to be your best units via an early promotion), but he still has decent base stats and weapon ranks.  Worth promoting if your primary choice between Alan/Lance didn't turn out well for some reason, and probably worth using regardless.  Sadly, his growths hinder any long term potential he might have otherwise had.  6.5/10

Asthol: The best thief in the game.  Has fairly good combat for most of the isles as well.  Unfortunately, unless you need to steal something, his utlity of opening things isn't as useful as Door/Chest Keys are easily buyable right before he shows up.  Good thing stealing is a helluva lot more useful in this game.  5/10

Oujay: His bases don't seem so bad but he's very underleveled when you recruit him.  Even if you use him, he won't have any real advantages over the great and mighty Dieck so it's like...why bother?  1.5/10

Barth:  He's an armor knight, doesn't even have availability going for him, his bases aren't particularly good for his level, his speed growth is garbage, and he comes 1HP short of capping at 20/20 which isn't a flaw but fuck him for it, so he's doomed to mediocrity.  You could early promote him for some almost passable combat on the isles, but there are more than enough units that are good on the isles already (honestly, even unpromoted Oujay is better considering he uses swords). 0.5/10

Wendy: Has no redeemable qualities. 0/10

Lilina: Has pretty good magic and can do some decent chip/kill enemies MUCH later on.  Fairly mediocre due to durability issues and low speed, and there's never really a point where you can say she really helped out (which is why she comes in lower than Lott, but still above units like Wolt and Wade).  2.5/10

Shin: It's telling what a good unit he is that his only issue is his D bow rank, and even that can be mitigated through smart use of him.  8/10

Fir: She's basically a later joining Rutger.  Her base stats are actually better, but she's a lower level with worse growths and D base swords.  Honestly, she'd be better if she had the same stats but started at a higher level, because the Swordmaster promotion is just that good.  Still, if you do end up using her (which isn't TOO hard considering how easy the isles are), she'll be fairly good later on.  4.5/10

The Great Gonzales: Great combat, and while I feel it's often overblown, he DOES have accuracy issues.  However, I think the biggest thing holding him back is his weight, as it makes it very hard to rescue him post promotion with a majority of your units and his combat isn't good enough to make it worth going that extra mile in order to use him.  2.5/10

Geese: He can break walls, I guess.  His base stats are mediocre, his weapon type isn't good, there's just not much going for this guy.  1.5/10

Elphin/Lalum: They dance and have mediocre durability (with Elphin being slightly better).  They have unique utility and let you do something that no other unit can do, but they're honestly pretty overrated unless you're LTCing the game (can't think of many strategies that are significantly more reliable with them).  Still dancer/10 though, which apparently equates to an 8/10 in this case.  8/10

Klein: Has great bases (especially that A rank in Bows) and while he shouldn't be getting too many levels, the ones that he will get are improved due to him having the best growths out of all of the prepromotes.  He's definitely worth fielding in any maps with fliers, and as a fairly good filler unit in others.  6/10

Tate: Doesn't have the best base stats, but she's fairly easy to use and her growths are pretty great.  She'll never be as useful as Shanna or Miledy, but she doesn't need to be in order to be a good unit. 7/10

Echidna: She has fairly good bases (ignoring the mediocre defensive stats), so her combat is unsurprisingly pretty good for a short while.  However, by the time she joins you get your hands on a second Hero Crest, so really the only thing she offers over a Dieck promoted at the time is Killer Axe usage.  5.5/10

Bartre: Has great base strength and fairly decent stats otherwise, but there's honestly not much you need him for by the time he shows up.  Still, if you can get him to C bows, he can probably do well against wyverns later on in the game.  4.5/10

Raigh: His bases aren't particularly stellar, which makes using him a huge pain considering most of your other units are combat ready when he joins.  I dunno, he's not fast enough to Nosferatu tank even when trained, so I'm not sure what niche he has going for him exactly.  2/10

Cath: Like Chad if he made you do a bunch of random bullshit to recruit him and still joined 10 chapters later.  1/10

Milady: The perfect unit, because I don't give a shit about resistance.  I guess if she had a better sword rank, she'd be even better, but that's what Percival is for.  10/10

Cecilia: Her bases are mostly underwhelming (especially considering her status in the story), but the important part is her 11 base magic (which is more than acceptable).  It helps her use staves (mostly limited to Mend, Barrier, and Restore, unfortunately), and she can even do some decent chip with her A rank in tomes if she needs too.  6.5/10

Sophia: Is completely useless. 0/10

Fa: She can bait staves/LRTs and kill dragons, but with 30 uses of her stone, she's not going to be great at combat even if you do try to use her.  2/10

Percival: Ridiculous bases and weapon levels make it so that his only flaws are that his skill isn't as good as it could be, he doesn't join earlier, and he doesn't fly.  Giving him a 10/10 anyways because of bias.

Igrene:  Better bases than Klein but worse growths and a worse bow rank make her slightly worse than him (especially if you've been using him, because that mitigates her bases advantage slightly).  5.5/10

Garret: His bases are fine but by the time you get him, there's nothing that he specifically does particularly well besides tanking wyverns on a mountain worse than Gonzales (especially considering you just Echidna/Bartre who can do his job better).  At least he doesn't eat a promo item, I guess. 3/10

Hugh: He has bases that are slightly better than Raigh's, although you have to pay a lot of dosh to get them.  Honestly?  It's still not worth it.  He's not even around for the desert map like Raigh was.  1.5/10

Douglas:  Great unit to use the boots on.  10/10

Zeiss: If only he joined earlier, because his bases are fantastic.  Okay, D lances hurts, and his Res/Spd could be better, but everything else is just dandy.  He also flies!  His only issue is that he might not be able to promote for quite a while, but even an unpromoted Zeiss can be decent. 6.5/10

Niime: Her durability issues are easily patched up, and her great offensive bases (16Spd is a bit low, especially considering her CON, but it's workable) ensure that she's a great Nosferatu tank (but unlike Odin, I'm being completely serious when I say this) and the best warper in the game (especially due to Apolcalypse).  Might be overrating her here but I feel like she trivializes some maps in ways that a not rigged Saul can't even dream of, ignoring all of the other units who can't even reach Warp.  8.5/10

Dayan: Has almost good base stats but they're just not quite there.  He's good against fliers but he struggles to do enough damage to sturdier enemies and he can't double faster enemies.  3/10

Yuno: She's worse than base Tate with promo gains.  Nuff said.  2/10

Yodel: A worse Niime who joins later (probably still has better magic than Saul, though).  He can use that sick S rank staff, though.  6.5/10

Karel: Has the best growths and pretty good bases, and yet contributes nothing of value. 0/10

Merlinus: Sheeping Irysa's logic, except I don't think it's quite worth that score. 7/10

[Heptade]

I might have exaggerated the earliness of Marcus' fall from grace, but my point stands (for me, he became awful around Arcadia, so around halfway through the game). A unit who is almost completely useless in endgame, and for a sizeable amount of chapters before, should not be rated 9 or above, as they're neither perfect nor near-perfect. While he is the best unit for a few chapters, pretty much anyone can surpass him at some point, and that should be taken into account. Anyway, it seems I won't convince anyone, and I'm not the most experienced with FE6, so I'll rest my case. Still, I feel the Jeigan-love is going a bit overboard on this site.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Heptade

[Refa]

I'd rate a unit that I can't complete the game without (purely due to how useful they are, before someone brings up Roy) a 10/10, I dunno about you.

[XeKr]

Actually replayed some FE6 lately (with “fixed” growths) so was going to post itt but then I realized Irysa for the most part gave pretty much the same ratings I would (often exactly or within 0.5), and with much better explanations.

Still will comment on a few things.

Roy: 4.5

Forced deployment is always tricky to evaluate, particularly for the lord. There’s no standing in the corner avoiding combat or such (mimicking the bench), as whole strategies revolve around transporting and protecting him. Can’t really handwave certain contributions as being in the right place at the right time, whilst focusing on genuine utility relative to other options. Another school of thought is that Roy’s contributions have no true opportunity cost, and occur in nearly every relevant context, and so he gets some decent credit for what he can do. Whatever investment he can get (Angelic Robe, stray kills in early chapters or while waiting on people to show up for recruitment) will give benefits, to some extent.

Regardless, Roy’s stats are really low so he can’t really kill much and has trouble taking many hits. Especially early on, though he’s certainly not the only one with such troubles. It’s been better covered by others, but he’s mostly notable for hitting early Cavs/Knights decently (at decent enough accuracy, relatively speaking) and obliterating Manaketes/Idun lategame. “Only” need around 15 AS for Manaketes and the Binding Blade can avoid a counter. Even can use Durandal a bit due to the massive promo gain in rank. He does fine in the Isles, though probably not onerounding much.

I rate him slightly below average though this can easily change. Somewhere in the 4-6 range probably. Not sure how Micaiah pulls ratings of 7s or so.

Marcus: 9

fwiw 9.5 is probably the highest score I will give out, but I don’t think Marcus can quite make it. The earlygame is all fixed deployment so one might consider a minor mitigation of his contribution there. Indeed, no one seems to think he’s better than say Miledy. And while Marcus stays highly useful throughout the game, 11-12 AS is borderline against a lot starting in the Isles. 

Wolt: 1.5

Alance: 8

At first glance, they seem like pretty ideal growth units to snowball. Mount, decent growths, nice affinity, and so on. The main problem is the earlygame is rather harsh, such that they can’t really get a solid return on that investment until promotion midgame. There’s also no defend maps to build support and Rescue/Canto can always be doing something else useful. Sure they do help early on, but pretty much everyone does, and they’re no Marcus/Rutger. Their stats are a bit too balanced to be a very reliable bosskiller later as well, and the stats they lose compared to Percival are significant. 15/5 or so is still expected to be a couple points behind in the important stats, and even if we pretend probability works in gbaemblem, it’s not like averages magically have 100% reliability either.

They are among the best characters if given a bit of time to grow (which I give them significant credit for), but the game gives you enough strong units at just the right intervals such that if you take full advantage and rotate the team accordingly, Alance don’t seem so exceptional in comparison.

I tend to think Lance is expected to be slightly better, due to doubling earlier for snowball potential/crits/etc, but others itt have pointed out some advantages of Allen’s Str/Def. Might be worth further analysis, as I think Lance was considered better for a long time at a more lenient pace where it’s far easier to meet Spd benchmarks. But maybe this was because things like A Allen/B Roy were commonpace and gave +5 Atk/+25 avoid.

Bors: 1.5

Ellen: 6

Deke: 7.5

Earlygame is quite good due to Skl/Spd and Blade damage/Armorslayer. As the game progresses, he’s not quite fast enough against some bosses however, and being an infantry unit, cannot contribute that much to reaching them in FE6’s large-ish maps. Still, his solid combat potential can carry a team not overloaded with prepromos/HM bonus characters. In particular, he’s fairly good at clearing space for reliable bosskills and rescuedrops of Roy, which is important to enable clears of chapters that don’t bank everything on a single attempt (probably involving criticals and such). Especially given big maps, long chapters, and no map save.

Lot: 3

I don’t actually think Lot’s any good at all. Helps a bit early on like everyone, but accuracy so bad. Combat never really gets that good, though maybe I’m overlooking something there.

Wade: 1.5

Shanna: 8.5

Chad: 4

Thieving utility is another weird thing to judge, but I guess we usually credit them for it. Given keys, however, Chad is mostly limited to a few early chests and steals. Nonexistent durability is bad, particularly later against the long range stuff. Pretty much marginal contributions that occur in nearly all relevant contexts seems similar to Roy. I rate him slightly below because it’s mostly gold (your last Boot or 2).

Lugh: 3.5

Chips Res at good accuracy earlygame. I don’t think I can give too much credit even at more lenient paces, as his (lack of) durability prevents him from carrying a team. Can perhaps Aircalibur some Wyverns on a forest, and he’s slightly more speedy/dodgey than the other mages (Dark Mages have Nos) but survival chances still aren’t that impressive.

Early promotion is an option for the midgame but Atk/Spd (20 Atk/11 Spd with Elfire at 11/1) is still pretty borderline. Perhaps undervaluing certain onerounds there, not sure. I think this makes you spend actions getting Sophia’s ring though. 

Clarine: 7

Rutger: 9

Dorothy: 1.5

Saul: 8.5

Sue: 6.5

Would rate her a bit higher but chance of 1 crit in 2 attempts is still just around 55% for most of the game. She does have accuracy, Spd, availability, Bow rank vs. Shin’s Str and durability, so I don’t see them as too far apart. But not sure I can put her above Klein (even though his Spd is very borderline, he has some solid onerounds with the Silver/Brave Bow midgame.)

Perhaps a Body Ring option, since that Brave Bow comes so early. The Pegasus Knights don’t have great combat later, though Niime really likes it I suppose.

There is no penalty assigned here for Sacae route, or forcing the player to train Tate more (if both Shanna/Shin are more likely to be in play). It’s perhaps notable that those things are probably detriments to reliability.

Jerrot: 8

The 13 Spd is really nice for when he joins.

This is probably also a good place to note that to me, any mitigation of rng such as in growths in a highly relevant factor, even moreso than usual, as the gameplay in FE6 is so reliant on crits and imperfect hit rates due to terrain/enemy stats. Like it’s often legitimately the best percentage play, to just slam (multiple) killers/SMs into enemies. 

Treck: 4

Base level too low, and there’s so many other mount options already that even varying team composition doesn’t help him much. 

Noah: 6.5

Astor: 7.5

The availability of keys matters quite a lot, but Astor usually finds a place in the team due to FoW and 6 move+combat (compare to unpromoted Deke/Fir/etc). Stealing is a bonus, with some highlights like the Delphi Shield. We can cheese desert items nowadays, but it’s an rng quirk. Astor might survive a hit or 2, unlike the others, though multiple units should probably be used and avoid combat as possible. How these items are assessed could drastically affect the thief ratings though.

Ogier: 1.5

Can at least hit things but can’t double for a while and nothing great after investment anyways.

Barth: 1

Wendy: 0.5

Lilina: 2

I actually used Lilina recently. And the hand axe counterohkos suck. >_>

Shin: 8

Fir: 6

We could restart last year’s discussion in the past topic again. >_> I long since lost my reply It mostly regards the opportunity cost of deployment slots and how much variance we allow teams (and if weighted based of their optimality). Less about the chance Rutger is Spd screwed and more about allowing that Rutger, and to an extent Percival/Miledy, are not always in play.

Still, Fir isn’t around for the earlygame, and certain bosses especially Dorie/Henning (but even Wagnar/Reygans can be hard to double). She needs some time to level/promote for the midgame bosses. At some time she finally realizes her potential against the lategame promoted enemies/bosses, with some high Skl/Spd/Luck/crit. 

The lategame can be fast because of Warp but if your chance of success is 10% on a 3 turn or death that’s expected to be 30 turns on average. If Fir can pull 50% through crits on a similar strat that’s a massive increase in efficiency. In practice, one can sometimes adopt strats that transition for more reliability (not always, as may need to defend Roy too and some enemy phases are just ridiculous) and these can favor units with durability to survive multiple rounds. Fir has worse concrete defenses but better avoid so her overall survival chances aren’t always too much worse.

Also one side niche that’s possible if desiring fastreliable clears is having 11/1ish Rutger for the earlygame but also training Fir a bit more past 10 so she has a few more stat points for later. She does fine in the Isles, and there’s a few turns there waiting for a recruit to show up, or the bosskill to happen, or clearing out enemies for Roy, or some lenient side objective, where one can train her more. I think a later promo Fir can pull noticeably better chances than 11/-- Rutger (yeah he gets the midgame bosskill exp for a lead), and pretty much everyone else, on certain later enemies/phases. (as a side note: with the fixed patch she will want to promote at either 13 or 17. And ultimately 13 is probably the more reasonable, but then again Irysa/Lord Raven got Lilina to 16/19 by 14x. Clearly there was rigging, but otoh reliable clears are slower and give more exp. And I would consider Fir easier to train despite melee.). Obviously a faster run of incomplete recruitment/tactical sacrifices is harsher for her.

Maybe I need to step back to crunch the numbers more objectively, but based on my last playthrough I still think you want an SM lategame if reliability is a strong concern. Even Percival/Miledy don’t have the best chances against some bosses, not to mention whoever else may be on the (nonspecific) team.

Again, her performance probably has some strong dependence on the pace of the midgame chapters, as the investment costs can then be mitigated, to an extent. I have some baseline in mind, based on highly reliable clears, but my last run (Elphin/Sacae route, if it matters) did aim for a number of optional objectives including recruit all and all items (except like stealable vulneraries, etc), plus used Sue/Noah/Fir/Lilina in addition to the typical team (including Shanna/Rutger/Miledy/Percival/Shin. Promoted Noah early instead of Alance.). otoh, I actually thought Fir had some of the best performance lastgame, and I’m clearly not about to rate her that high.

Actually I did almost convince myself to rate her even higher but I’m not sure she’s better than Echidna (but then again, what is Echidna doing in most teams?). I also know that I did some hand waving for Fir’s training, given comments about Lugh/Sue/reliability in general, but it’s a matter of payoff. Do others really find it so trivial to lolwarp the game without save state fishing or a script for the crit rns?  ;\ (even hit rates are a major concern sometimes)

All that said, 6 doesn’t seem to be a massive outlier anyway.

Gonzales: 3

I’ll give some credit for carrying a weaker team against Wyverns. With some concrete durability.

Geese: 1.5

Lalum: 9

Elphin: 9

Klein: 6.5

Tate: 7

Her accuracy is actually pretty bad when trying to train her, given disadvantage vs Axes and the Spd of Mercs. Shanna can at least pick on soldiers, and competition-wise the team then isn’t as good as 3 Paladins + promoted Rutger/Shanna + Killer nomad.

Echidna: 6

Bartre: 5.5

Raigh: 2

Cath: 2.5

Miledy: 9.5

Cecilia: 7

Sophia: 0.5

Crediting her for a Guiding Ring is similar to contributions attributed to thieves. She is force deployed, but it does cost some effort protecting/ferrying her. And the 2nd Guiding Ring is also largely unneeded, I think. One could credit her for promoting Saul/Ellen in cases where the 1st ring is not obtained, but Astore is forced deployed then and there’s buyable/stealable keys then. 

Fae: 4

Self-sufficient staff/siege bait is useful in any team. Accurate attacks might help, even.

Perceval: 9

Igrene: 6.5

I do think the extra Spd helps significantly.

Garret: 3.5

Hugh: 2

This score is based on waiving all recruitment costs.

Douglas: 1.5

Zeiss: 6.5

He benefits immensely if Miledy gets a few unpromoted levels for some Spd, which can perhaps free up a Speedwing. By the time he joins, it’s harder to justify himself spending extra levels unpromoted. (12 perhaps in the fixed patch, 15 is certainly questionable)

Niime: 8.5

Dayan: 2.5

Juno: 2

Yodel: 7

There’s a somewhat big gap with Niime but when availability is like this, every chapter and tile of staff range matters imo. Tho S Staves has its uses.

Karel: 1

Merlinus: tbd

It’s possible to rate Merlinus on utility like the refreshers/thieves/staffers. The same rating as Niime seems a bit high, however. This could be worth an actual analysis though I want to point out that his selling contributions are shared since others obtain the items, and it’s not like it’s impossible to sell without him. The majority of gems/promo items/expensive stuff can probably be sold given the many deployment slots in later maps (where we have warp so not everything is very important), so the marginal benefit is the last few boots. Item teleports via convoy and infinite self-resurrection are also very good though.
___________________________

I try to have roughly 5 be the average (presently 5.04 but I easily can't math), not have skewed ratings, etc. Don’t particularly care what the average of everyone in the topic is, that won’t affect the numbers I give.

About outlier scores, I think it’s fair to give people a chance to defend them. But if they don’t care to, they also shouldn’t care if they don’t count in the aggregate. 

@Heptade

Marcus is very good early then falls off to some extent, but is this any worse than not existing or being bad for the first part of the game and being good later? Especially considering how good he is relative to the cast early (extremely), compared to how good others are relative to the cast late (less so, since more characters are good then, and most not as much as Miledy/Percival/Niime). That’s the simplest, stripped down, version, but we can delve into the details if you wish.

Moreover, there are strong arguments for things like FE10!Jill around Haar’s level, or FE9!Marcia over Titania. Robin over Frederick is probably consensus. Arran does not touch the top tier in FE12, and neither does Sirius typically and he even has a number of uses later. Some characters ostensibly weak to start like FE9!Soren or Kaze, would probably be ranked fairly high nowadays. So it’s not accurate that everything is judged on bases nowadays.

If one wishes, there are a number of approaches to argue against Jeigans, though here are 2 main ones I see.

-          The first regards the utility of characters when the cast is small, and potentially with fixed deployment. Basically since there’s fewer choices, performance is less impressive there than utility later when given so many more choices in a larger cast. This tends to be effective because very few like ranking FE10’s Edward/Nephenee very high.

-          The second regards the efficiency paradigm, wherein characters are assessed by the contributions to fast and reliable clears. Some dislike this rating method, or disagree on the meaning of “efficiency” in FE context. This line of argument is sometimes effective, since there’s so much fatigue on philosophy that few like debating it, but there’s a reason the current way of thinking became the dominant preference for tier lists.

I find exp-stealing and such classics as relatively weak points. Mekkah made the canonical arguments so I’ll let him give a summary to start. https://youtu.be/9twWNEbOkZk?t=194

I think discussions on this site about the viability of characters tend to be more sophisticated than you’re portraying.

Edited March 31, 2017 by XeKr
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