Fire Emblem Echoes sold less on its first week in Japan than either Shadow Dragon or New Mystery did.

[Thane]

1 minute ago, Sunwoo said:

Let's just see what happens. I don't think this is something to panic over.

Let's all just buy two copies each!

Seriously though, even if the hype had been on par with Fates (I can't speak for any pre-release hype before that), I think a lot of people simply don't get as invested in remakes where you either know sort of what to expect, or feel like you miss out on too much by not having played the original. I'm not saying that's a major contributing factor, but I do believe it's there.

[NekoKnight]

1 hour ago, Thane said:

Let's all just buy two copies each!

Seriously though, even if the hype had been on par with Fates (I can't speak for any pre-release hype before that), I think a lot of people simply don't get as invested in remakes where you either know sort of what to expect, or feel like you miss out on too much by not having played the original. I'm not saying that's a major contributing factor, but I do believe it's there.

My 15 minutes playing Gaiden has me confident that no one will wish they had played Gaiden before Echoes.

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

Yeah this game is suffering from being the black sheep of the series, not much push as much as recent entries,  other competition with other games, missing recent popular features (don't have to explain the obvious and yeah it obviously wasn't going to be in it but sadly this had to be addressed here...), and last of games in the 3DS's lifespan i'm definitely not expecting very high sales like Awakening and Fates but decent around 500-550k I guess FE16 Switch is the crutch in case.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Blade Lord Lyn

[Dr. Tarrasque]

"Hmm.. remake didn't sell well. Welp, that confirms it. The series needs to have its marriage, self-insert and shoehorned children and visual novel elements we can add in to sell."

Sad to say but the more I saw the remake trying to be "faithful" to the original, the more likely it seemed it wouldn't sell very well. Hmm, maybe they can patch a New Game+ option where you can play through the game with a self-insert avatar so people can marry Celica.

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

1 minute ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

"Hmm.. remake didn't sell well. Welp, that confirms it. The series needs to have its marriage, self-insert and shoehorned children and visual novel elements we can add in to sell."

Sad to say but the more I saw the remake trying to be "faithful" to the original, the more likely it seemed it wouldn't sell very well. Hmm, maybe they can patch a New Game+ option where you can play through the game with a self-insert avatar so people can marry Celica.

Lol that's obviously ain't happening but I guess that's why FE16 Switch is being made for next year as a back up plan.

[Florete]

2 hours ago, IMCasual said:

I would love to get Bloodborne and MGSV on release day if I had a PS4 back then as it only recent get a PS4 for P5. These games deserve my money. Brought the TYH edition for P5 on PS4. 40 dollar is ridiculous for game that isn't even HD in 2017, perhaps not to people that only game on 3DS but as someone who own multiple systems you can really see the shortcomings of 3DS.

I can't help but wonder if you're actually serious here. Console games have released for $50 or more for over a decade now, and current handheld games likely have bigger budgets than those games back then did. Being HD or not doesn't determine a game's price, and what a surprise, HD games cost on average 50% more when they release than handheld games do today ($60 compared to $40).

I own multiple systems myself, including a PS4 and Bloodborne, a game I love. If $40 is more than you're willing to pay for this game, that's fine, but it's the standard pricing and a game doesn't need to be HD in 2017 to be worth $40. Keep in mind these so-called "shortcomings" of the 3DS are a direct result of its purpose as a handheld console.

[Tolvir]

I think blaming remakes isnt the right way to put it. Final Fantasy VII remake made everyone, even those who didnt play the original, lose their mind. There were people literally in tears because of that reveal. Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia? Not so much. Why? Just look at the popularity of Final Fantasy VII and Gaiden. Final Fantasy VII is regarded as one of the best RPGs of all time, with some of the best characters in gaming. It also made history for games in setting a new standard for narratives and story telling in games.

Gaiden was a Japan only release that didnt do all that well, is regarded as the black sheep of the Fire Emblem series, and outside of some hardcore fans or people more involved in the FE community, it wasnt very well known. So a remake isnt exactly going to garner as much attention. It also didnt have as grand of a stage, it was revealed in a Nintendo Direct, not much of an audience there outside of Nintendo fans. As compared to even Fates, where sure it was first revealed in a Direct, but it got a lot of attention at E3, putting it on the map of game reveals for the biggest video game event of the year.

You wrap that all up into the fact that it also leaked out, which had more of an effect than people are willing to admit. Sure not a lot of people were able to play it, but those kind of things still damage the product. How much is unknown, but dont fool yourselves thinking it didnt damage it. Then add in the fact that overall, the game is faithful to Gaiden to a fault, which can be seen as a step back in some ways (looking at you map design. When even your new maps for the game are just as bad as the remade ones, there is a problem. A remake should try and improve, not stay the same. Its kind of the point of the remake)

I think it also wasnt advertised as well of it should of been. There should of been somekind of bone thrown towards the new generation. I think supports being a larger focus of advertisement and getting a little better treatment than GBA/Tellius style would of helped in that regard. When you really look at SoV outside of the FE community (key thing there, outside of the community like Serenes), there wasnt a whole lot of an effort to try and bring in the new generation of fans. If anything, there was a backhanded comment about the current gen games, whether it was supposed to be a joke or not is regardless. Just look at the difference between Etika and Ghast. Ghast was freaking out because he was familiar with Gaiden, Etika had the reaction of what is this? Echoes was clearly advertised to the older fans of the series, which isnt a bad thing, but when its the only one you are really making an attempt to advertise to, you arent exactly getting the most out of advertising. 

It wasnt featured nearly as much as it should of in the latest Nintendo Direct, only receiving a brief moment to confirm DLC. Its ads were good in regards to how many there were, but that is irrelevant if nobody sees them outside of those that were already throwing money at the screens for a Gaiden remake. And I didnt exactly see those spread across the globe, Fates had a few TVspots and advertisements, especially close to release, online all the time. It got its name out there, SoV not so much. There is still time for the US to receive that treatment, but I have a feeling it wont.

Looking at all of that, Echoes was not going to be a best seller. It isnt failing, in all honesty it was probably a lot cheaper for them to make this. Just look at how fast it came out as compared to Fates or Awakening, so in the end they still probably made their money. I am willing to bet it was a cheaper production on purpose, again IS probably knew this was not going to sell the best of the 3DS era. So dont look at this as a bad sign at all.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Tolvir

[Refa]

4 hours ago, Anacybele said:

As meh as I think the game looks, this is troubling. Though it's not ALL that surprising, since Gaiden was apparently not popular. But it does worry me that it could make IS hesitant to remake FE4 and 5 or even not re-release Tellius (regardless of Ike's popularity and all the people wishing they could play it but can't because of inaccessibility). :(

If Nintendo makes a GameCube/Wii Virtual Console, they'll rerelease the Tellius games regardless of past sales.  Otherwise, you're talking about the company that takes GameCube games, repackages them, and sells them at full price.  Since PoR/RD didn't sell well individually, that's probably not going to happen.

Basically, I don't think this is going to set that back, fortunately.  If sales don't pick up after the US release, I'd be worried for Jugdral.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Refa

[Armagon]

Yeah, Echoes was definitely one of the two side-project meant to keep us entertained until FE16 (the other being FE Warriors but i think that's being handled by Koei Tecmo and not IS). Looking at it's first week sales, it's possible that it's already close to what IS expected, and that's not counting digital and SE sales. And of course, Western sales could help boost numbers a bit more.I have a feeling that the sales of the European SE in particular will sell well enough because that comes bundled with the Alm and Celica Amiibos and people go crazy for Amiibos. It's not gonna reach Awakening or Fates sales but I think IS and Nintendo knew that.

[Jedi]

I'm talking to the Source Gaming guys and literally the only people worried about these lower sales numbers are devoted FE people, everyone else is like "this seems alright". 

Kinda interesting to me I guess.

[Tolvir]

11 minutes ago, Jedi said:

I'm talking to the Source Gaming guys and literally the only people worried about these lower sales numbers are devoted FE people, everyone else is like "this seems alright". 

Kinda interesting to me I guess.

Not bothering me exactly, I expected it. I am pretty sure IS new it too, these companies dont just throw stuff out there and wait for numbers to come back without any estimates and plans. They knew what the likely result was. I dont really see why anyone else was expecting any different tbh. SoV wasnt exactly trying very hard with its advertisement. As I said previously, it had a very niche target audience, the veteran FE fans. It didnt exactly try and draw in the new or possible fans for the series, which was likely on purpose.

And in the grand scheme of things there have been far worst sales in history, just look at some of the previous sales in the series.

EDIT: its also just week 1 in Japan, which you said later anyway.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Tolvir

[Armagon]

Just now, Jedi said:

I'm talking to the Source Gaming guys and literally the only people worried about these lower sales numbers are devoted FE people, everyone else is like "this seems alright". 

Kinda interesting to me I guess.

Probably because a lot of people kinda expected it. Honestly, anyone who thought the game would even reach Awakening or Fates sales numbers were just unrealistic dreams.

I suppose the reason why FE fans are worried is because it sold less than the DS remakes. Except here's the thing: the DS remakes had Marth. Marth is very popular in Japan, that's why he got into Melee in the first place. If Echoes was selling below Tellius, THEN it would actually be worrying.

[Jedi]

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

Probably because a lot of people kinda expected it. Honestly, anyone who thought the game would even reach Awakening or Fates sales numbers were just unrealistic dreams.

I suppose the reason why FE fans are worried is because it sold less than the DS remakes. Except here's the thing: the DS remakes had Marth. Marth is very popular in Japan, that's why he got into Melee in the first place. If Echoes was selling below Tellius, THEN it would actually be worrying.

Plus we don't have Western or Digital Numbers yet. So its hard to judge from 1 week.

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

5 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Plus we don't have Western or Digital Numbers yet. So its hard to judge from 1 week.

Again with no marketing or push, being last in 3DS lifespan and other games that will have more priority for people to get no one is expecting Awakening/Fates gamebreaking sales only decent amount.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Blade Lord Lyn

[Armagon]

9 minutes ago, Blade Lord Lyn said:

Again with no marketing or push, being last in 3DS lifespan and other games that will have more priority for people to get no one is expecting gamebreaking sales only decent amount.

At least in terms of 3DS games, Echoes isn't really facing much competition, at least in the West (Japan probably has like a bunch of exclusive games we don't know about). I mean, outside of Echoes, what else is the 3DS getting? Hey Pikmin is a thing but Pikmin is still C, maybe B-tier in terms of popularity, whereas Fire Emblem is currently A-tier. Then there's Ever Oasis, but i'm seeing next to zero interest from people in that game. Then there's the New 3DS port of FE Warriors but by then, most people will likely have a Switch. Then there's a new Monster Hunter, i think. I think it's the spin-off one. Then there's the Kriby games but those are just expanded versions of minigames featured in recent Kirby titles. And besides that, unless E3 proves otherwise, the rest of the 3DS' library this year is just eShopware. But yeah, Echoes is only gonna sell decently in the West, which isn't bad by any means. I can definitely see it being one of the higher selling 3DS games of 2017 tho.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Armagon

[De Geso]

Considering Fire Emblem Switch is already confirmed, I don't think we need to worry about this game putting Fire Emblem "back on its death bed" just yet. Unless something happens in the way of FE16 going away, we're fine. 

Besides, those numbers aren't bad considering Gaiden's circumstances. 

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

12 minutes ago, Armagon said:

At least in terms of 3DS games, Echoes isn't really facing much competition, at least in the West (Japan probably has like a bunch of exclusive games we don't know about). I mean, outside of Echoes, what else is the 3DS getting? Hey Pikmin is a thing but Pikmin is still C, maybe B-tier in terms of popularity, whereas Fire Emblem is currently A-tier. Then there's Ever Oasis, but i'm seeing next to zero interest from people in that game. Then there's the New 3DS port of FE Warriors but by then, most people will likely have a Switch. Then there's a new Monster Hunter, i think. I think it's the spin-off one. Then there's the Kriby games but those are just expanded versions of minigames featured in recent Kirby titles. And besides that, unless E3 proves otherwise, the rest of the 3DS' library this year is just eShopware. But yeah, Echoes is only gonna sell decently in the West, which isn't bad by any means. I can definitely see it being one of the higher selling 3DS games of 2017.

Oh I meant big games similar to like Splatoon 2 and stuff unless Gen 4 remakes or something else big comes on the last bit of the 3DS then at least it got that title this year. This game was just a side project till Fire Emblem 16 comes which is likely gonna be a major boom like Awakening/Fates especially to a more broader audience as usual.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Blade Lord Lyn

[Armagon]

4 minutes ago, Blade Lord Lyn said:

Oh I meant big games similar to like Splatoon 2 and stuff unless Gen 4 remakes or something else big comes on the last bit of the 3DS then at least it got that title this year.

Oh yeah, definitely. Any big Switch game will outsell Echoes. Heck, FE Warriors will probably outsell Echoes. And even though the 3DS is on it's way out, should Gen 4 remakes happen, they'll sell like hotcakes, because it's Pokemon.

[Yula]

Remember how I predicted that Echoes would not sell well and would be divisive? I know some of you are probably expecting me to come in here and do a little dance and gloat and rub it in your face. But... honestly, I wanted to be wrong. I wanted Fire Emblem Echoes to do well, I wanted it to sell well, however, I just wasn't seein it happen.

 

I mean hopefully in a month's time, it'll do great over here in the west, but, unfortunately, I ain't seein that either. Again, I want to be wrong, but it's Gaiden... which isn't a popular game within the fandom and outside of the fandom. I'm sorry that I can't be more optimistic, but at this moment, I'll adopt a wait-and-see approach. Before anyone asks, yes, I will still buy the game.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 hour ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

Sad to say but the more I saw the remake trying to be "faithful" to the original, the more likely it seemed it wouldn't sell very well. Hmm, maybe they can patch a New Game+ option where you can play through the game with a self-insert avatar so people can marry Celica.

I laughed harder at this than I should have.

 

It's a bit disappointing that people aren't buying this. So much love put into it, but I guess marriage is a really big pull. I know people who are put off from Echoes just because it lacks modern features; they're willing to try out games like FE7 on emulators, but they refuse to actually buy Echoes.

For the terrible reputation Gaiden has, I'm surprised at how much FUN I'm having. There's the occasional (well, I guess most of Celica side) annoying chapter and bullshit mechanic, but the experience is still overwhelmingly positive for me. I'm not exactly old school, either; my first game was FE7, but I only played that because I heard about Awakening.

Edited April 27, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

First of all sale numbers of one country don't say much for me even if it's from the country where this game was made.
JP is just one country of the world.
The sales of all the other countries will be crucial, crucial if the idea of this remake was a success or not.
It will give IS the feedback if more remakes (FE4-6) would be appreciated in the future.
 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Alisa Reinford

[Quintessence]

1 hour ago, Jedi said:

I'm talking to the Source Gaming guys and literally the only people worried about these lower sales numbers are devoted FE people, everyone else is like "this seems alright". 

Kinda interesting to me I guess.

Hahaha that's typcial. SF likes to light fires everywhere . I think it's a matter of competitiveness in which devs aspire to surpass previous titles' first week sales. Personally, I think they're decent, yet I understand why people are worried about it, since FE is supposedly on its pinnacle of popularity.

Now that I see this thread, it reminds me of the article I read at IGN in which they (generally) said IS made a risk move by changing "drastically" the way of playing FE from one version to another. FE14 had a lot of hype around it, pair up, marriage, avatar and whatnot, and now they bring us to a polished version of old school FE, in which case I feel people (or newbies) are hesitant to make such change and get out of their comfort zone by experiencing something new (ironic!).

That being said, I will always support FE and will definitely get the game on its digital version, because I don't want to mess up with shipping, handling, taxes and whatnot.

[Jedi]

30 minutes ago, Thran Starcrod said:

Remember how I predicted that Echoes would not sell well and would be divisive? I know some of you are probably expecting me to come in here and do a little dance and gloat and rub it in your face. But... honestly, I wanted to be wrong. I wanted Fire Emblem Echoes to do well, I wanted it to sell well, however, I just wasn't seein it happen.

 

I mean hopefully in a month's time, it'll do great over here in the west, but, unfortunately, I ain't seein that either. Again, I want to be wrong, but it's Gaiden... which isn't a popular game within the fandom and outside of the fandom. I'm sorry that I can't be more optimistic, but at this moment, I'll adopt a wait-and-see approach. Before anyone asks, yes, I will still buy the game.

Not selling well is what Tellius did, this is still topping charts, its not groundbreaking for the franchise, but its still doing alright. 

So stop trying to be doom and gloom the oc, because its getting quite irritating, go to gamefaqs instead to preach. 

[Yula]

[Can a mod please delete this. We talked on Discord]

 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Thran Starcrod

[Nobody]

34 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Not selling well is what Tellius did, this is still topping charts, its not groundbreaking for the franchise, but its still doing alright.  

Regardless of this game's sales being bad or not, people overestimate topping charts. There's nothing special about topping a weekly sales chart in a country where first week sales represent most of them. PoR and RD might as well have topped their release week's charts in Japan, and that wouldn't say anything about how they sold. The "it's in first place in this week's sales rank so it sold well" argument i've seen some people saying makes no sense, and i'm not talking about this situation in particular, but like, topping a sales chart doesn't mean much when you're competing against games that are from much smaller series or were released 2, 3, 5 or 10 weeks before and therefore have already sold most of what they would.

Similarly, a game can sell REALLY well and still not top charts, if it's released in the same week as something much bigger, as for exemple it happened with Horizon: Zero Dawn, which was a huge success but didn't top charts in most places because of how close it released to Zelda.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Nobody