New Magic

[bethany81707]

Heroes introduced two new magic types- magic with a weapon triangle advantage against bows (in a game where this is not normal) and magic that got more powerful the more buffs the user has.

The question I'm asking is this: would you like to see a mainline Fire Emblem title introduce these spells in some capacity? I can't imagine the games as they are now (or at least as I remember them, I'm not familiar with the newer styles) making good use of either, but a new gameplay style might help these spells stand.

[Roflolxp54]

I can imagine the (Color)blade tomes having low Hit rates and having Skill debuffs (for reducing the chances to proc an attack/defense skill in reference to the longer cooldown time for specials) when wielded.

(Color)raven tomes would come with Defense and Resistance buffs (in reference to how the Color Triangle in Heroes works) when wielded and have mediocre or low Might, perhaps coming with an Attack buff when facing off against a unit the Colorraven user has an advantage over.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Roflolxp54

[Magical Glace]

I think they could be fun to have, though with the Raven tomes it's worth noting how much the weapon triangle matters in Heroes compared to mainline Fire Emblem, so I don't think it'll be nearly as effective.

Blarblade would need some sort of drawback, the skill debuffing and lowered hit rates seems like it could work.

[NekoKnight]

The blade tomes would be hard to implement, I think. Unlike Heroes where tons of units have passive buff skills or rallies, very few units do this in the mainline games. I'm not sure how they'd factor in the damage boost but I'd have the tomes lower your critical hit rate to simulate lower skill cooldowns.

1 hour ago, Glaceon Mage said:

I think they could be fun to have, though with the Raven tomes it's worth noting how much the weapon triangle matters in Heroes compared to mainline Fire Emblem, so I don't think it'll be nearly as effective.

Rather than involving the weapon triangle, they would best imitate the effect of the Raven tomes by making them do effective damage (or some other fixed damage bonus) to bows/hidden weapons.

[Lushen]

I don't think buffs play a large enough roll in the base games, with the exception of the newer games but even then I pretend they're not there.  I wouldn't be surprised to see bowkilling mages - would be interesting because traditionally bowmen destroy mages.

[Katrisa]

2 hours ago, Lushen said:

I don't think buffs play a large enough roll in the base games, with the exception of the newer games but even then I pretend they're not there.  I wouldn't be surprised to see bowkilling mages - would be interesting because traditionally bowmen destroy mages.

I concur.  I REALLY like what they have done with the skill sets in Hero's.  I think they have actually evolved matchups better than the base games ever did.  By simplifying some parts of the games (mages restricted to ranged), movement restrictions, stat alignments, etc they have effectively created balance in all parts of the game where it didn't exist in the original fire emblems.  

I think the effects of buffs in these games consequently is much more distinct.  Speed for instance seems much more balanced since characters are distinctly bracketed at max level.  And the leveling ramp likewise makes speed more distinct along with the effects of speed buffs.

Likewise the effects of blade tombs and their impact on gameplay is great.  Your blade mage cries when they are buffless and destroys when they have their buffs.  I absolutely would like to see more of these effects in future base games.

[r_n]

Fates put magic, bows & daggers into a weapon triangle. Magic beats bows, even; likewise, the Calamity Gate reverses & doubles the triangle against daggers.

The _raven tomes aren't even really bow killers. They're colorless reavers, a quirk that only really exists in this game because daggers, staves & bows are all the same thing. They needed an all-purpose tome for practical reasons, really.

 

Getting the blade tomes would be great, though. Imagine Rally Spectrum? dead, forever.
On the other hand I'm interested in these tomes; someone can correct me if they've been used before:
-Cymbelline gives an attack boost to surrounding units
-Veronica's tome turns buffs into penalties
-The _wolf tomes, magic's never been SE against cavalary before. Closest we've gotten was thunder magic was SE against Wyverns/dragons in TEllius and wind effective against flying units in assorted games (in heroes, this is only with merric's special tome).

[Emerson]

It's weird, if they'd kept the pattern, we WOULD'VE had a Bow-killing Tome in Fates. Instead, we got a Tome-killing Bow, which reverses the pattern of the effectiveness being on something that normally has a weapon triangle disadvantage against the user. Tomes and Daggers didn't even get an effectiveness weapon...

22 minutes ago, r_n said:

Cymbeline gives an attack boost to surrounding units

It already exists in Radiant Dawn, where it was simply very powerful fire magic, and exclusive to Sanaki. Fates also already has weapons the give Rallies, namely Saizo's Star, which gives a Rally Strength like Heroes!Cymbeline does. Rallies on tomes or another weapon type could be interesting though...

Speed Thunder and Xander's Lance don't count. They're enemy rallies, which is still the stupidest thing ever.

I feel the _Raven weapons only really work in Heroes. _Wolf could definitely work in a main series game since it's just a tome version of the Horseslayer, as could Élivágar and _Blade, although they'd be much less effective due to the lack of buff usage in most scenarios. Unless we have a return of the color triangle rather than the weapon triangle, I don't see _Raven making a return. It's just too specific to how Heroes works.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Emerson

[Rezzy]

I forget, in the Fates weapon triangle, are tomes effective against Bows?

If bows were removed from the triangle against, I wouldn't mind some sort of bowslayer tome.

[Captain Karnage]

1 hour ago, Rezzy said:

I forget, in the Fates weapon triangle, are tomes effective against Bows?

If bows were removed from the triangle against, I wouldn't mind some sort of bowslayer tome.

yes, and so were swords

I think they just did this because tomes are only 2 range while melee are 1 range, I'm pretty sure it's just there just to make everything under a weapon triangle... minus bows

[Sentinel07]

I would definitely be curious to see the Blade, Wolf, and Raven tomes in the main series games.

And of course, now we have Owl tomes.

[BANRYU]

While I'm a big fan of the new spells Heroes introduced, they're a lot of fun, I'm fairly certain they're designed primarily for the unique format and mechanics of Heroes (IE, the RGB Rock-paper-scissors-centric deal)... Thus, I wouldn't super expect to see them in main FE games.

 

Personally, I think I'd design the Wolf/Blade/Raven/Owl tomes as a generic anima tome which can be used by any of the three anima classes (wind/thunder/fire), that takes on the attribute of the wielder's element (or primary/highest-ranking element, in the case of classes like Sages that use multiple anima types). That'd be made for use with my class/weapon lists in my sig and such, I suppose... I guess it'd be Owl = D-rank / Wolf = C-rank / Raven = B-rank / Blade = A-rank for weapon ranks and such. Maybe bump them all down one and Owl/Raven are both C. shrug.