New info on FE Warriors

[Lyrai]

On 5/30/2017 at 6:06 PM, Sayyyaka said:

Yawn.

Oh, it's a shame. I really wanted to see a battle royale of characters from across the series.

Still, after hearing out the interview, it seems that they wanted to make reclassing in the game as well, in order to customize the characters well to Awakening / Fates's player expectations. Also, Shadow Dragon included reclassing, so that's probably another reason to its inclusion. While the rest of the series would not even fit in with reclassing, I think.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Lyrai

[Interdimensional Observer]

Medeus could be the villain as the original Dark Dragon. Though Anankos and Grima have extradimensional talents which lend themselves well to this crossover. But of course, a totally new grand foe could be made- even though HW didn't do this (but it didn't have to due to the dominance of Ganon/dorf in Zelda universe).

As a side note related to the villainy, Warriors Orochi- the Samurai-Dynasty Warriors crossover subseries, has a serpentine humanoid named Orochi as its main villain. And in WO3, the new villain (albeit unplayable due to its massive size) is the Hydra- a multi-headed serpent who (spoilers just in case someone here would be interested in WO3)

Spoiler

Was born when Orochi was killed by the heroes in WO2 and Da Ji was kept from resurrecting him for a prolonged time. The Hydra is bulk of Orochi's power without a mind to keep it in check (the mind and the remainder of Orochi's power took the form of the playable character Shuten Doji), and it rages endlessly. The world of WO is a creation by Orochi to test himself against the strongest warriors from across time that he can find, and thus without Orochi there is no longer a reason for this world to exist. The Hydra thus seeks to destroy the world, basically a "I'm taking you with me!" measure which Orochi may or may not have planned in advance.

Basically the Hydra is in a way reminiscent of the plight of Archanean/Ylissean/Fatesian dragons.

[Arthur97]

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Medeus could be the villain as the original Dark Dragon. Though Anankos and Grima have extradimensional talents which lend themselves well to this crossover. But of course, a totally new grand foe could be made- even though HW didn't do this (but it didn't have to due to the dominance of Ganon/dorf in Zelda universe).

As a side note related to the villainy, Warriors Orochi- the Samurai-Dynasty Warriors crossover subseries, has a serpentine humanoid named Orochi as its main villain. And in WO3, the new villain (albeit unplayable due to its massive size) is the Hydra- a multi-headed serpent who (spoilers just in case someone here would be interested in WO3)

  Reveal hidden contents

Was born when Orochi was killed by the heroes in WO2 and Da Ji was kept from resurrecting him for a prolonged time. The Hydra is bulk of Orochi's power without a mind to keep it in check (the mind and the remainder of Orochi's power took the form of the playable character Shuten Doji), and it rages endlessly. The world of WO is a creation by Orochi to test himself against the strongest warriors from across time that he can find, and thus without Orochi there is no longer a reason for this world to exist. The Hydra thus seeks to destroy the world, basically a "I'm taking you with me!" measure which Orochi may or may not have planned in advance.

Basically the Hydra is in a way reminiscent of the plight of Archanean/Ylissean/Fatesian dragons.

Yeah, Madeus has first villain status, but I personally think Grima has the skills (and isn't insane) to be the villain. I mean, Grima is huge too, it may be the strongest dragon in the series. However, that would also restrict Grima to mostly using either a puppet or some form of energy projection to play with the actually dragon showing up during certain moves.

[Folt]

2 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

Yeah, Madeus has first villain status, but I personally think Grima has the skills (and isn't insane) to be the villain. I mean, Grima is huge too, it may be the strongest dragon in the series. However, that would also restrict Grima to mostly using either a puppet or some form of energy projection to play with the actually dragon showing up during certain moves.

To be honest, that would be a really cool way to have Grima as a playable character; control the puppet and have his moveset tap into his dark powers to create flashy moves and projections of his dragon self. Could also be a way to get him as a fightable opponent AND as a stage (since dragon!Grima is massive enough to have him be used s a stage).

[Arthur97]

2 minutes ago, Folt said:

To be honest, that would be a really cool way to have Grima as a playable character; control the puppet and have his moveset tap into his dark powers to create flashy moves and projections of his dragon self. Could also be a way to get him as a fightable opponent AND as a stage (since dragon!Grima is massive enough to have him be used s a stage).

It'd be kind of hard to justify keeps on Grima's back. Maybe if they need a boss stage though, but I don't know if they ever make stages just for bosses.

[Folt]

Just now, Arthur97 said:

It'd be kind of hard to justify keeps on Grima's back. Maybe if they need a boss stage though, but I don't know if they ever make stages just for bosses.

Meh. In this case, I'd take it simply because it'd be cool.

[Arthur97]

Just now, Folt said:

Meh. In this case, I'd take it simply because it'd be cool.

Probably my favorite final stage. Sure, it's simply as far as layout goes, but it was epic.

[NoirCore]

7 hours ago, Tolvir said:

Looks like we are getting a good bit of characters. They already stated in that interview that the amount of characters being prepped for FE Warriors is more  than any other Warriors collaboration. Can't wait to see who we get.

Mind if I ask what's been the largest collab roster size so far?

[DaloDask]

20 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

Mind if I ask what's been the largest collab roster size so far?

If I'm remembering correctly it's about 20 if we don't count All-Star.

If we do, then it's 30.

ALSO a correction, it's the highest of any FIRST Warriors entry.

Edited June 5, 2017 by DaloDask

[Soledai]

Not counting Gundam Reborn and its 70-something?

And that's just pilots.

Unless you meant largest starting size. :u

Edited June 5, 2017 by Soledai

[Lord-Zero]

3 hours ago, Soledai said:

Not counting Gundam Reborn and its 70-something?

And that's just pilots.

Unless you meant largest starting size. :u

Starting vanilla roster.

Musou All-Stars was more of an in-house project. 

[Soledai]

Yeah I figured later.

All this loquacious hoopla about starting rosters and stuff for the past couple days and I still somehow managed to inaccurately think he meant overall. How does that happen :V

[Tolvir]

9 hours ago, DaloDask said:

If I'm remembering correctly it's about 20 if we don't count All-Star.

If we do, then it's 30.

ALSO a correction, it's the highest of any FIRST Warriors entry.

Forgot to include that, but yes. More than any first entry. Should of specified that in my post, my bad.

[Slumber]

23 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

Yeah, Madeus has first villain status, but I personally think Grima has the skills (and isn't insane) to be the villain. I mean, Grima is huge too, it may be the strongest dragon in the series. However, that would also restrict Grima to mostly using either a puppet or some form of energy projection to play with the actually dragon showing up during certain moves.

Let's not go nuts. As big as Grima is, his feats aren't THAT impressive compared to Loptyr, and they're definitely not impressive compared to Anankos.

He pretty much flew around and died in Awakening. Or flew around and took 20 years to kill everyone in the timeline where his revival went unhindered.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Slumber

[Arthur97]

40 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Let's not go nuts. As big as Grima is, his feats aren't THAT impressive compared to Loptyr, and they're definitely not impressive compared to Anankos.

He pretty much flew around and died in Awakening. Or flew around and took 20 years to kill everyone in the timeline where his revival went unhindered.

He took his time which is definitely in character as he is overconfident as I'll get out. Honestly, Grima's true power was never really clarified, but he did have the ability to travel between worlds so he's definitely one of the most powerful beings in the Fire Emblem universe as apparently that is difficult even for gods. In fact, Anakos was in awe of Naga's ability to send so many people back and Grima is shown to be on par with Naga.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Arthur97

[Slumber]

7 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

He took his time which is definitely in character as he is overconfident as I'll get out. Honestly, Grima's true power was never really clarified, but he did have the ability to travel between worlds so he's definitely one of the most powerful beings in the Fire Emblem universe as apparently that is difficult even for gods.

It's never explained how Grima/Robin went from the alternative future to the main timeline, but given how little attention is given to that fact, it was likely through the use of the Outrealm Gates, which everyone does in Awakening.

Anankos, comparatively, was explicitly given the ability to travel between worlds without using Gates, if I'm remembering correctly, and THAT was a big deal.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Slumber

[Arthur97]

1 minute ago, Slumber said:

It's never explained how Grima/Robin went from the alternative future to the main timeline, but given how little attention is given to that fact, it was likely through the use of the Outrealm Gates, which everyone does in Awakening.

Anankos, comparatively, was explicitly given the ability to travel between worlds without using Gates, if I'm remembering correctly, and THAT was a big deal.

Except Naga apparently outstripped him and Grima and Naga were shown to be on virtually equal terms.

[Ertrick36]

9 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Or flew around and took 20 years to kill everyone in the timeline where his revival went unhindered.

Hey, complete annihilation of all sentient life takes time, even for an evil dragon demi-god abomination like Grima.

I think as a whole Grima's one of the most popular villains (if not the most popular one) in the series, mostly due to the critical acclaim and overall success of Awakening compared to the other most popular games.  That in combination with the fact that it's pretty much suggested that Naga/Grima are more powerful than Anankos (though no other comparisons are drawn outside of these three) all makes their feats pretty irrelevant.

Though if I'm going to be honest, because there are so many villains even just in the three games they're pulling from alone, they'll either make some "Giga villain" that's wrecking everyone's shit, or there will be a lack of a centralized villain.  I do expect that we'll see some OC villains, though.  Or at least one.

[Slumber]

7 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Except Naga apparently outstripped him and Grima and Naga were shown to be on virtually equal terms.

We're told this(We never learn how Grima kills Naga in the future timeline), but it's never shown, and it never makes any sense that this is stated. From what Grima did, and what Anankos did, there's a CHASM between them in terms of abilities. Anankos is basically portrayed as being nigh-omnipotent, while Grima just kind of does what he can, which is a lot more limited than what we see of Anankos.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Slumber

[Arthur97]

1 hour ago, Ertrick36 said:

Hey, complete annihilation of all sentient life takes time, even for an evil dragon demi-god abomination like Grima.

I think as a whole Grima's one of the most popular villains (if not the most popular one) in the series, mostly due to the critical acclaim and overall success of Awakening compared to the other most popular games.  That in combination with the fact that it's pretty much suggested that Naga/Grima are more powerful than Anankos (though no other comparisons are drawn outside of these three) all makes their feats pretty irrelevant.

Though if I'm going to be honest, because there are so many villains even just in the three games they're pulling from alone, they'll either make some "Giga villain" that's wrecking everyone's shit, or there will be a lack of a centralized villain.  I do expect that we'll see some OC villains, though.  Or at least one.

It helps that of the four I've played (Awakening, Blazing Blade, Sacred Stones, and Shadow Dragon) I actually remember Grima (granted the dragons in BB were unamed) and Madeus. If there is a big bad pulled from the games, one of those two make the most sense, but Grima being from Awakening as well as having dimensional crossing abilities I think gives him an edge.

Spoiler

Plus, they even put him in SoV.

 

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

We're told this(We never learn how Grima kills Naga in the future timeline), but it's never shown, and it never makes any sense that this is stated. From what Grima did, and what Anankos did, there's a CHASM between them in terms of abilities. Anankos is basically portrayed as being nigh-omnipotent, while Grima just kind of does what he can, which is a lot more limited than what we see of Anankos.

The way I see it is that he killed her because she was not fully awakened which made her vulnerable. Whether it makes sense or not, it is stated and is therefore cannon. Besides, part of Grima's character is being overconfident (hence why he insists on Robin joining him even though he doesn't really need them) so it's feasible that he just doesn't feel he needs to flex all of his muscle until it's too late. Adding to that is the superiority complex which also makes sense give his origin. Plus there is the fact that Grima can only be killed by his own power which means that he wasn't exactly pressed for time.

Edit: Actually Grima did send multiple people across dimensions in the Future Past 3, and that was Robin using Grima's power which means it probably was not Grima's full potential.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Arthur97

[Tsak]

2 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

It helps that of the four I've played (Awakening, Blazing Blade, Sacred Stones, and Shadow Dragon) I actually remember Grima (granted the dragons in BB were unamed) and Madeus. If there is a big bad pulled from the games, one of those two make the most sense, but Grima being from Awakening as well as having dimensional crossing abilities I think gives him an edge.

  Reveal hidden contents

Plus, they even put him in SoV.

 

The way I see it is that he killed her because she was not fully awakened which made her vulnerable. Whether it makes sense or not, it is stated and is therefore cannon. Besides, part of Grima's character is being overconfident (hence why he insists on Robin joining him even though he doesn't really need them) so it's feasible that he just doesn't feel he needs to flex all of his muscle until it's too late. Adding to that is the superiority complex which also makes sense give his origin. Plus there is the fact that Grima can only be killed by his own power which means that he wasn't exactly pressed for time.

Edit: Actually Grima did send multiple people across dimensions in the Future Past 3, and that was Robin using Grima's power which means it probably was not Grima's full potential.

Spoiler

Anankos literally caused a mass continental curse that unmakes people from existence for using a specific word if they aren't on his weird landmass
Considering the weird land he inhabits also has a giant spectral army of heroes/villains etc of varying power (that he personally reanimated) to defend it also makes that pretty annoying
That's some hilariously next level power, destroying the world for Anankos isn't really hard. Probably just too degenerated to really make a conscious effort
Anankos can also teleport people as well (owain and the group etc), Anankos literally had to put steps in play to defeat himself (really boring villain trope) because he was too silly, and only 1 storyline out of the 3 you get when playing fates actually explores him losing.
I'm not saying Grima isn't strong, but he isn't a true divine dragon (SoV basically tells us he was a necrodragon construct with divine dragon and human blood) whereas Anankos is. Not only that but Anankos doesn't have his power sealed in any sort of way, and any power he takes back from his pawns he gains the full power back.

 

[Arthur97]

Grima may not be a divine dragon, but he is shown to be just as strong as one. Besides, the fact that Grima isn't actually insane apparently works against him as he's just too arrogant to act personally unless he's a.) really bored or b.) really desperate. Plus there's the fact that the only thing that can kill him, is his own power. Not even Naga who is indicated to be stronger (she's apparently either just really lazy or has some weird policy against direct intervention) than Anakos from his awe of her ability to teleport so many people through dimensions which is apparently harder than wiping people from existence. 

Plus Anakos was beaten by Corrin, how bad could he be? (This last part is a joke if no one can see that)

In reality, without an actual power scale, it can be difficult to compare power, but from what we have to go on, Grima could probably take Anakos since he, well, is really hard to kill and would therefore win just by outlasting him, incredibly powerful in his own right, and not degenerated which means he can actually think to counter Anakos if he has too (even if he doesn't want to).

Edited June 6, 2017 by Arthur97

[Tsak]

On 6/6/2017 at 9:38 AM, Arthur97 said:

Grima may not be a divine dragon, but he is shown to be just as strong as one. Besides, the fact that Grima isn't actually insane apparently works against him as he's just too arrogant to act personally unless he's a.) really bored or b.) really desperate. Plus there's the fact that the only thing that can kill him, is his own power. Not even Naga who is indicated to be stronger (she's apparently either just really lazy or has some weird policy against direct intervention) than Anakos from his awe of her ability to teleport so many people through dimensions which is apparently harder than wiping people from existence. 

Plus Anakos was beaten by Corrin, how bad could he be? (This last part is a joke if no one can see that)

In reality, without an actual power scale, it can be difficult to compare power, but from what we have to go on, Grima could probably take Anakos since he, well, is really hard to kill and would therefore win just by outlasting him, incredibly powerful in his own right, and not degenerated which means he can actually think to counter Anakos if he has too (even if he doesn't want to).

Naga by the time Grima rose up was probably significantly weaker than than his/her normal self.
Grima's power comes from Divine dragon blood, which anyone with divine dragon blood shouldn't have trouble killing him.
For the record i don't like anankos as a villain, or fates in general. But that doesn't deny how hilariously powerful characters are from those respective games, anyone whose so ominpotent where if you utter a certain word you're erased from existence is leagues ahead of any other dragons we've seen. That kind of power is actually godly,

Spoiler

given that Grima is a construct given life through a necrodragons corpse and divine dragon blood. while that is a potent combination i highly doubt he'd be as strong as an ACTUAL divine dragon that seemingly is stronger that most normal divine dragons.

 

Edited June 7, 2017 by Tsak

[Arthur97]

1 minute ago, Tsak said:

Naga by the time Grima rose up was probably significantly weaker than than his/her normal self.
Grima's power comes from Divine dragon blood, which anyone with divine dragon blood shouldn't have trouble killing him.
For the record i don't like anankos as a villain, or fates in general. But that doesn't deny how hilariously powerful characters are from those respective games, anyone whose so ominpotent where if you utter a certain word you're erased from existence is leagues ahead of any other dragons we've seen. That kind of power is actually godly, given that Grima is a construct given life through a necrodragons corpse and divine dragon blood. while that is a potent combination i highly doubt he'd be as strong as an ACTUAL divine dragon that seemingly is stronger that most normal divine dragons.

I thought the point was that he would be stronger than a divine dragon and become the ultimate lifeform (Shadow anyone)?  Besides, Naga specifically said that the only power that might kill him, would be his own (probably due to the fact that his powers seem very focused on necromancy). Also, even when not fully awakening in Lucina's timeline, Naga sent 12 people back through time and space, a feat even Anakos was in awe of and one that both Naga and Grima would surpass in Future past by sending a large chunk of the Shepherds back and forth (Grima was even struggling to control himself as Robin used the power to send them back which means that the power was likely inhibited). Grima is essentially the Fire Emblem god of death and as such is nigh impossible to actually kill. In fact, due to in game lore, even Anakos could not kill Grima, because he cannot use Grima's power which at the very least would result in a stalemate.

In the end, there is little way to say which feats really require more godlike power, but as I understand it, breaking time was considered one of the most serious things a "god" could do, and both Naga and Grima just don't seem to care all that much about it.

[Folt]

29 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

I thought the point was that he would be stronger than a divine dragon and become the ultimate lifeform (Shadow anyone)?  Besides, Naga specifically said that the only power that might kill him, would be his own (probably due to the fact that his powers seem very focused on necromancy). Also, even when not fully awakening in Lucina's timeline, Naga sent 12 people back through time and space, a feat even Anakos was in awe of and one that both Naga and Grima would surpass in Future past by sending a large chunk of the Shepherds back and forth (Grima was even struggling to control himself as Robin used the power to send them back which means that the power was likely inhibited). Grima is essentially the Fire Emblem god of death and as such is nigh impossible to actually kill. In fact, due to in game lore, even Anakos could not kill Grima, because he cannot use Grima's power which at the very least would result in a stalemate.

In the end, there is little way to say which feats really require more godlike power, but as I understand it, breaking time was considered one of the most serious things a "god" could do, and both Naga and Grima just don't seem to care all that much about it.

I'd say Mewtwo would be a better comparison, being an artificially made lifeform which was even more powerful than the thing whose DNA was used to make it.