Lord-Zero Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 28 minutes ago, Arthur97 said: But your own argument to the importance of the weapon triangle works against you. By saying it's important enough to keep a character like Lucina out of the base game is hypocritical when the number of characters you predict would leave a paltry 4 non-sword users into the game. What about non-lords? Where's Caeda? Cordelia? Tharja? Camilla? Leo? Cain? Abel? They can't fit in your roster. The math just doesn't add up. Though it certainly fits with the reason for limiting focus. If they didn't literally everyone would have a sword. Good grief. I'm quite aware of that. Of course I know they wouldn't fit in my hastily made-up roster (that was done yesterday with another train of thought in mind) which originally started at 18. This is a completely different thing and I'll slim down that roster tomorrow since I have to go to work now. Did you forget about the 20+ movesets part? Lucina is not needed for the vanilla roster with Marth and Chrom already working as protagonists. Chrom is there to represent Awakening. She and other very popular characters are best set up for new DLC scenarios. Vanilla roster so far is pretty good for the casual audience which will be the majority who would buy the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur97 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Lord-Zero said: Good grief. I'm quite aware of that. Of course I know they wouldn't fit in my hastily made-up roster (that was done yesterday with another train of thought in mind) which originally started at 18. This is a completely different thing and I'll slim down that roster tomorrow since I have to go to work now. Did you forget about the 20+ movesets part? Lucina is not needed for the vanilla roster with Marth and Chrom already working as protagonists. Chrom is there to represent Awakening. She and other very popular characters are best set up for new DLC scenarios. Vanilla roster so far is pretty good for the casual audience which will be the majority who would buy the game. That would be like saving Ganondorf for DLC. Awakening is more known by Lucina even if Chrom is the lord. Besides, Morgan would be a better child representative since Lucina ends up blurring into the first gen characters due to her mandatory recruitment. I mean, she's the only one in Heroes despite it's much larger roster and easier implementation of characters. But, no, 8-9 to my knowledge are confirmed sword users and no amount of trimming will solve that. Besides, Ike, and Lyn all have alternate weapons, but that did not stop their games from getting the ax. Clearly, primary weapons take precedence, and a measly 13 characters do not give enough variety. Face it, a 13 character game is almost all lords with swords and that is no good and incredibly unlikely. They've already said the roster is bigger than other collaborations so your "magic number" argument is already void. You are far too pessimistic for your own good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord-Zero Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Uhh...Ganondorf is a rather odd character choice from your part. Try...Toon Link. "More known by Lucina"? No. Your fanboy side is showing, please put him in a drawer and lock it for a while. Lucina is a child unit through and through; she's just a canon child unit while the others are up to the player. Also, we haven't gotten an Awakening banner in Heroes yet. 8 sword users with the OCs probably being able to branch out to whatever KT wants. Marth will most likely stick with his Falchion while Chrom, Corrin and Xander can actually use other weapons. 13 characters were enough to go through the main story of Hyrule Warriors just fine. 13 would probably be the absolute minimum, maybe bumping that up to 16-19 would be more reasonable for the vanilla roster to get through the main story and that's without counting more weapon fighting styles for some the characters. "Pessimistic"? Not quite. More like keeping my expectations in check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Motendra Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 (edited) As much as I agree with your reasoning @Lord-Zero, 13 really is a bit of a low number to start with in my sole opinion. At least, for a game like this that derives from Fire Emblem of all places. Likewise, I'm not expecting a huge number either out of the nature of first-entry games but I believe it is too early to be able to accurately determine roster parameters. This is something that we're just going to have to wait and see. Edited June 3, 2017 by Motendra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur97 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Lord-Zero said: Uhh...Ganondorf is a rather odd character choice from your part. Try...Toon Link. "More known by Lucina"? No. Your fanboy side is showing, please put him in a drawer and lock it for a while. Lucina is a child unit through and through; she's just a canon child unit while the others are up to the player. Also, we haven't gotten an Awakening banner in Heroes yet. 8 sword users with the OCs probably being able to branch out to whatever KT wants. Marth will most likely stick with his Falchion while Chrom, Corrin and Xander can actually use other weapons. 13 characters were enough to go through the main story of Hyrule Warriors just fine. 13 would probably be the absolute minimum, maybe bumping that up to 16-19 would be more reasonable for the vanilla roster to get through the main story and that's without counting more weapon fighting styles for some the characters. "Pessimistic"? Not quite. More like keeping my expectations in check. Except she is used more in marketing than Chrom. Even if she weren't, she's definitely above Toon Link status. Even people who don't like her will admit that; where are you getting your information? Chrom's practically been a running gag (as much as I like the guy) since Smash and he was even replaced in the final boss of the crossover (which is also a bit of a joke) that he "starred" in (as much as you can call a phantom that doesn't remember who they are and is essentially just a power source so the real hero can actually do something a star). She just shows up more. Your denial is showing as well as your bad attitude. She is the modern face and that's hard to deny. Of course as someone who literally refuses to accept what has been said about the roster being higher than usual, I guess I'm expecting too much. When you're willing to listen to reason and facts and stop degrading to insults, let me know. Edited June 3, 2017 by Arthur97 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truthblade Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 They said that the roster will be larger an any other collaboration title. If i read this right, the largest launch roster right now is HW, which is 13. So it is going to be more than that, and I will have to agree that 18 would be the most realistic number as I doubt the roster size would even be brought up if it was just one or two characters more than HW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 @Blade_of_Light Except DW Gundam had 18 characters at base. They wouldn't advertise its size if it wasn't going to break 20. @Lord-Zero Who got the figma? Who did IS specifically request for Smash? Who got higher in the popularity polls? You're the one in denial here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur97 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 (edited) 35 minutes ago, The DanMan said: Who got the figma? Who did IS specifically request for Smash? Who got higher in the popularity polls? You're the one in denial here. Not that I'm complaining, but did they request her? Edit: Finally! That was the one with 18! Edited June 3, 2017 by Arthur97 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightchao42 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, The DanMan said: Who did IS specifically request for Smash? I don't see what Ike has to do with this discussion. We're talking about Lucina, aren't we? Edited June 3, 2017 by Lightchao42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truthblade Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 34 minutes ago, The DanMan said: @Blade_of_Light Except DW Gundam had 18 characters at base. They wouldn't advertise its size if it wasn't going to break 20. @Lord-Zero Who got the figma? Who did IS specifically request for Smash? Who got higher in the popularity polls? You're the one in denial here. Oh, that counts too? My bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord-Zero Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, The DanMan said: @Blade_of_Light Except DW Gundam had 18 characters at base. They wouldn't advertise its size if it wasn't going to break 20. @Lord-Zero Who got the figma? Who did IS specifically request for Smash? Who got higher in the popularity polls? You're the one in denial here. Eh? This will never end, it seems. "Denial"? Well, excuse me for having different thoughts on the matter. "Figma"? As if getting that would make you a god or something and Chrom did get a figure, not a figma but he got a figure. This is FE Warriors we're talking about. "IS request for Smash?" What? She, as well as characters like Dark Pit were going to be alts for Marth and Pit repectively. They ended up becoming microwaved clones which is hardly flattering. "higher in popularity polls?" Being a male character nowadays is a disadvantage since it's the peak of "waifu" era. Female characters had way more votes than the males in the CYL ballot so it was more of a waifu war. "bad attitude"? Good grief. I guess being honest can be seen as bad especially I don't share the same feelings towards certain characters. @Arthur97: "refusing to accept that the roster will be bigger" Where did you get that from? I simply do not expect a huge vanilla roster like some of you have in your heads. Seeing is believing. If we get a beefy roster, that's perfectly fine. If we don't, that's also fine. When you get the Lucina fanboy/worshiper mode out of your head, the world will be slighly better place. Also, Sakurai's Chrom "gag" has been gone for a while now. Even IS realized this. Lyn winning on the female side in the Heroes ballot took them by surprise to the point they decided to add the 2nd place winners getting alts as well since they were certainly expecting Lucina to win 1st place. I'll end it with this: If she was the "face" as you claim, why was Chrom chosen over her to be one of the poster characters fo FE Warriors? Taking into account that Shion and Lian are twins and Marth and Lucina look a lot alike, wouldn't have it been better to go fully symmetrical with Marth and Lucina with the twins? Edited June 3, 2017 by Lord-Zero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur97 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 30 minutes ago, Lord-Zero said: Eh? This will never end, it seems. "Denial"? Well, excuse me for having different thoughts on the matter. "Figma"? As if getting that would make you a god or something. "IS request for Smash?" What? She, as well as characters like Dark Pit were going to be alts for Marth and Pit repectively. They ended up becoming microwaved clones which is hardly flattering. "higher in popularity polls?" Being a male character nowadays is a disadvantage since it's the peak of "waifu" era. "bad attitude"? Good grief. I guess being honest can be seen as bad especially I don't share the same feelings towards certain characters. @Arthur97: "refusing to accept that the roster will be bigger" Where did you get that from? I simply do not expect a huge vanilla roster like some of you have in your heads. Seeing is believing. If we get a beefy roster, that's perfectly fine. If we don't, that's also fine. When you get the Lucina fanboy/worshiper mode out of your head, the world will be slighly better place. Also, Sakurai's Chrom "gag" has been gone for a while now. I think this whiny post confirms that. And the roster's size was expressly brought up in the Famitsu article. As it's been said, Lucina is bigger than Chrom and you seem to be the only one who can't see it. Even people who loathe her would admit that. Good grief the reason some people don't like her is because she upstages Chrom. Seriously though, if you can't accept facts and stop insulting people, don't bother mentioning me again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 @Arthur97 @Lightchao42 They expressed interest in her being in Smash, which is why she was an alt-costume in the first place (Sakurai at the start planned for Chrom and Robin with Chrom being dropped almost immediately due to a lack of potential). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur97 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 1 minute ago, The DanMan said: @Arthur97 @Lightchao42 They expressed interest in her being in Smash, which is why she was an alt-costume in the first place (Sakurai at the start planned for Chrom and Robin with Chrom being dropped almost immediately due to a lack of potential). Huh, neat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightchao42 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 26 minutes ago, The DanMan said: @Arthur97 @Lightchao42 They expressed interest in her being in Smash, which is why she was an alt-costume in the first place (Sakurai at the start planned for Chrom and Robin with Chrom being dropped almost immediately due to a lack of potential). I don't recall ever hearing about IS wanting Lucina in Smash, so if you have a source I would like to see it (for posterity here's the source for IS telling Sakurai to include Ike in Brawl). Of course this Smash business doesn't really matter, because Lucina is practically a secondary mascot for the series and it would be crazy for her to not be in Warriors. Also, there's evidence that Chrom was seriously considered for Smash 4 (Sakurai even came up with a moveset for him) and that Sakurai flipped between him and Robin for a few months before settling on the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lightchao42 said: I don't recall ever hearing about IS wanting Lucina in Smash, so if you have a source I would like to see it (for posterity here's the source for IS telling Sakurai to include Ike in Brawl). Of course this Smash business doesn't really matter, because Lucina is practically a secondary mascot for the series and it would be crazy for her to not be in Warriors. Also, there's evidence that Chrom was seriously considered for Smash 4 (Sakurai even came up with a moveset for him) and that Sakurai flipped between him and Robin for a few months before settling on the latter. Huh-- hadn't read that article (only an interview that it referenced). It was mentioned in one of the columns/interviews that IS wanted Lucina included in some form due to her popularity. I just don't feel like trawling through all of them right this minute to find it. Edited June 4, 2017 by The DanMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord-Zero Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 10 hours ago, The DanMan said: Huh-- hadn't read that article (only an interview that it referenced). It was mentioned in one of the columns/interviews that IS wanted Lucina included in some form due to her popularity. I just don't feel like trawling through all of them right this minute to find it. The closest thing to that that I've read would be how Sakurai came up with Greninja's moveset and how excited he was about it or something along those lines. If you find the column or interview regarding that, please post the link. All I've read about IS and Smash is that Sakurai was deciding between Chrom and Robin but ultimately decided on Robin due to his "magic swordsman" theme. Nothing else on other FE characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Motendra Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) I'm pretty certain there is no such column mentioning IS. All three protagonists were considered simply because Sakurai, himself had played the game in full and wanted to include someone from it. Popularity was not a deciding factor between having one over the other and given the separate criteria used for both Robin/Chrom & Lucina, they are incomparable. With the original criteria for character inclusion, Robin was the only one who met them, as already stated. Chrom unfortunately had an unusual bind where he was both too similar to have his own spot, yet too different to be an alt, whereas Lucina could only be put in at all due to her relation to Marth that allowed her to do what Chrom couldn't. Being originally an alt, it wouldnt be hard to deduce her inclusion as fanservice that miraculously won the lottery. This the famitsu column that explains all 3 characters But enough of that Edited June 4, 2017 by Motendra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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