What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Harvey]

On 1/24/2020 at 1:40 AM, eclipse said:

Hey, we have Final Fantasy fans on here too.  ;/

The thing that sells TMS is its gameplay, but if you can't see beyond its aesthetic, that's on you.

Thing is though, its not just me but a whole lot who think this way and I don't blame them because it is what it is and like the first time, they didn't even bring in effort to market this one that well. And well as I and others have predicted, it wouldn't be on the radar for too long either. If you like the game, good for you but unfortunately, games aren't designed with you in mind but are made with specific audiences in mind and this game does not fit to those who are into JRPG series like Dragon Quest or Pokemon who have a wider audience.

But really, for a JRPG or any RPG in general, you shouldn't just be satisfied with gameplay alone as RPG is also story oriented and is about character development and progression. If that fails, then there's no point of calling it an RPG.

 

[Tolvir]

Lysithea is great gameplay wise, but Im not a fan of her as a character. I find her to be the opposite of Leonie, both in supports and reception.

Lysithea has a good support with Byleth, and her interactions with Byleth in the monastery are generally pretty good, which helps the perception of her from the player, where Leonie is the opposite and has a rather poor support with Byleth and her interactions with Byleth pre timeskip arent all that good.

But support wise, Leonie is probably one of the nicest, most supportive characters in the cast, where as Lysithea definitely acts childish and cant stop from ripping into her classmates any opportunity she gets. Her Ignatz support is a good example of this, as is her support with Leonie, Sylvain, etc. Claude is one of the few that fires back at her in any way. Everyone else just ends up being a pushover around her in their supports.

As opposed to Leonie who is always offering to lend an ear to her classmates who need it, have thoughtful discussions with them like her Claude support, or in general just help those that need it.

This doesnt necessarily make Lysithea a bad character mind you, its not what Im saying at all, but its something that makes me personally like her a lot less.

[eclipse]

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

Thing is though, its not just me but a whole lot who think this way and I don't blame them because it is what it is and like the first time, they didn't even bring in effort to market this one that well. And well as I and others have predicted, it wouldn't be on the radar for too long either. If you like the game, good for you but unfortunately, games aren't designed with you in mind but are made with specific audiences in mind and this game does not fit to those who are into JRPG series like Dragon Quest or Pokemon who have a wider audience.

But really, for a JRPG or any RPG in general, you shouldn't just be satisfied with gameplay alone as RPG is also story oriented and is about character development and progression. If that fails, then there's no point of calling it an RPG.

 This is what you previously said:

On 1/16/2020 at 1:34 AM, Harvey said:

I honestly don't see the appeal of tms. All it really is is just an idol game with singing and stage performance. And the fact that there is no English dub in this just makes the game overall niche considering that the switch version is already not developing much hype for the game and the marketing effort is lame as it is just trying to put three house costumes and some characters in heroes and that's it. Oh and that one major thing that I heard is getting removed..shocking.

I have no doubt that the game will bomb whether it gets support or not and that's really sad on Nintendo's part because they are trying so hard to make this game sell but then fatlus screws it over. Lesson to learn Intelligent Systems. Never collaborate with Atlus for fire emblem spin offs and instead collaborate with tecmo koei or heck..even squenix.

 

You're summing up the game ONLY ON ITS OUTWARD APPEARANCE, despite the fact that those that have played it fell in love with it for its gameplay mechanic.  To completely ignore that is mentally dishonest.  So is trashing SQEX for whatever reason.

So once again, if you can't look past the aesthetic, that's a "you" issue.  And apparently, you're not alone.  Please fix this, because it's not a desirable personality trait.

[starburst]

2 hours ago, Harvey said:

But really, for a JRPG or any RPG in general, you shouldn't just be satisfied with gameplay alone as RPG is also story oriented and is about character development and progression. If that fails, then there's no point of calling it an RPG.

Octopath Traveler's story (particular and general) is average at most or simply bad. But that did not stop my completing it about ten times. Without all the silly walls of text, it takes one 10-12 hours (no grinding and not even visiting upper-tier locations, with or without re-classing) to complete a 4-character campaign. Its gameplay is very entertaining and the game is super easy; it almost plays as a rhythm game.

Is Xenoblade Chronicles 2's story any good? It is an honest question, for I only tried it for a couple of hours (on multiple occasions). If it were good, I could not care less, for its automated gameplay is just dumb. And when the gameplay bores me, why would I keep investing time on it hoping that its writing will compensate for it after 80 hours? I play Y's VIII instead and have dozens of entertaining hours from the get go.

Conquest's story is silly as fuck, and I have completed it over twenty times (Hard and Lunatic, 10-units only, no royals, no grinding, no nothing.) And I will always defend how entertaining it is. Now, Three Houses might deliver a much better story than Conquest, but I would not know, for I do not find its gameplay engaging enough to invest time on it and see how it goes. Three Houses goes from wandering without fear, to optimising the party with the purpose of turtling all maps. I want something else.

I could go on, but you get the idea. Some of us priorities an entertaining, challenging gameplay, some others, the storytelling.

[Slumber]

3 hours ago, Benice said:

Nephenee is the worst hakberdier in RD, Aran is the best.

I'll second this.

Aran takes a hit in usability on hard, since he gets doubled by everything right off the bat and will have to get some lucky level ups to reach the usability you can get out of him on lower difficulties. But he has a role, at least, that is valuable for the chapters he's available for. A tank that can dish out the damage he takes. Plus, the way he caprams his main stats makes him a good candidate for BEXP. It doesn't take too much(Though it's more arguable on Hard) to get him rolling.

Nephenee is just... a Swordmaster, but slower and with a Lance instead. In a bunch of chapters where you're not going to be short on units like that.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Slumber

[Benice]

3 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I'll second this.

Aran takes a hit in usability on hard, since he gets doubled by everything right off the bat and will have to get some lucky level ups to reach the usability you can get out of him on lower difficulties. But he has a role, at least, that is valuable for the chapters he's available for. A tank that can dish out the damage he takes. Plus, the way he caprams his main stats makes him a good candidate for BEXP. It doesn't take too much(Though it's more arguable on Hard) to get him rolling.

Nephenee is just... a Swordmaster, but slower and with a Lance instead. In a bunch of chapters where you're not going to be short on units like that.

*GASP*  Another acolyte of Aran?! I never thought I'd see the day!

The other problem with Nephenee is that she starts as a second tier unit, so she doesn't get much Exp at all in part 2, but the enemies are still really close to on-par with her. In the cave chapter of part 2, Brom IMO is the only viable option to safely go looking around. (Mordecai is too, but he's a laguz.) Nephenee got herself killed several times in that chapter after two enemies attacked her.

Devdan's okay, but he really suffered even more than aran from availability. If you're using Aran, you're probably gonna give him a level or two with BEXP, and Aran is the best wall until Nailah and Black Knight cheese everybody. I'm pretty sure Devdan won't have the option to recieve BEXP until part 4 or so. Which is too bad, because he's more than half decent .(Also, giving Aran 11 points of movement is fun.)

 

Very unpopular opinion: Amelia is by far the best general in sacred stones.

[Harvey]

17 hours ago, eclipse said:

You're summing up the game ONLY ON ITS OUTWARD APPEARANCE, despite the fact that those that have played it fell in love with it for its gameplay mechanic.  To completely ignore that is mentally dishonest.  So is trashing SQEX for whatever reason.

So once again, if you can't look past the aesthetic, that's a "you" issue.  And apparently, you're not alone.  Please fix this, because it's not a desirable personality trait.

And I already told you not everyone plays RPGs for just the gameplay as its a mix of narration and overall characterization which TMS is weak at. If this game was not a JRPG, then I can understand the gameplay aspect being the important thing. I don't know about you but I usually play JRPGs or RPGs in general because of stories and not gameplay because gameplay is the least when it comes to the genre. People who are into Dragon Quest or Pokemon don't do it for the gameplay but for everything else that makes them what they are. This is exactly the problem Paper Mario had because the minute they removed the story in Paper Mario is the time that Paper Mario started NOT doing well.

Also, how am I thrashing Squenix? I just said that Nintendo can also get to them unless you are assuming that by calling them Squenix, I'm 100% insulting them? And being this is unpopular opinion, why are you even bothered to tell me to fix it?

16 hours ago, starburst said:

I could go on, but you get the idea. Some of us priorities an entertaining, challenging gameplay, some others, the storytelling.

Just because you mentioned games like Octopath Traveller or Xenoblade Chronicles doesn't make an excuse that some would just like the gameplay. RPGs are more than just gameplay and again, as mentioned before, narration is also a factor and Fates screwing over story in favor of gameplay while Three houses doesn't doesn't justify the gameplay aspect. It just means that IS for some reason decided to give more importance to the plot and characters for 3H in favor so that's just that.

Now like I said earlier, for other genres, I agree that gameplay is more important but RPGs can't be satisfied with just gameplay alone and that is the reason why TMS just didn't do it for everyone else.

 

[Jotari]

4 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Now like I said earlier, for other genres, I agree that gameplay is more important but RPGs can't be satisfied with just gameplay alone and that is the reason why TMS just didn't do it for everyone else.

 

Am I going to have to be that guy who brings up visual novels and old school adventure games?

[Flere210]

I think the biggest problem whit TMS is that it pissed of 90% of it's customer base. If it was a completely original project it would have fared much better. There are plenty of JRPGs that are sold on gameplay alone. TMS was sold as an idol game to people that where hyping up something dark and edgy. I am only surprised that the Idolmaster crowd and Kentaro Miura did not embrace it.

[Harvey]

8 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Am I going to have to be that guy who brings up visual novels and old school adventure games?

Ah...my bad. Forgot about those genres.

 

[starburst]

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

Just because you mentioned games like Octopath Traveller or Xenoblade Chronicles doesn't make an excuse that some would just like the gameplay. RPGs are more than just gameplay and again, as mentioned before, narration is also a factor and Fates screwing over story in favor of gameplay while Three houses doesn't doesn't justify the gameplay aspect. It just means that IS for some reason decided to give more importance to the plot and characters for 3H in favor so that's just that.

Now like I said earlier, for other genres, I agree that gameplay is more important but RPGs can't be satisfied with just gameplay alone and that is the reason why TMS just didn't do it for everyone else.

I get you, mate. The thing is that you are getting upset by a demand that cannot be fulfilled. Believing that there is one canon way to develop and enjoy RPG's is very optimistic at best, and most likely naive.
I know that the story and character development are important in role playing games, yet some of us can still enjoy a game whose their storytelling was not as engaging. I can skip all dialogues and scenes and enjoy the gameplay. On the other hand, and contrary to you, I cannot keep on playing a game whose gameplay bores me (the reason why I am struggling with Three Houses, for example.)

[eclipse]

18 hours ago, Harvey said:

And I already told you not everyone plays RPGs for just the gameplay as its a mix of narration and overall characterization which TMS is weak at. If this game was not a JRPG, then I can understand the gameplay aspect being the important thing. I don't know about you but I usually play JRPGs or RPGs in general because of stories and not gameplay because gameplay is the least when it comes to the genre. People who are into Dragon Quest or Pokemon don't do it for the gameplay but for everything else that makes them what they are. This is exactly the problem Paper Mario had because the minute they removed the story in Paper Mario is the time that Paper Mario started NOT doing well.

Also, how am I thrashing Squenix? I just said that Nintendo can also get to them unless you are assuming that by calling them Squenix, I'm 100% insulting them? And being this is unpopular opinion, why are you even bothered to tell me to fix it?

I just had a nice chat with someone over why I have an issue with censoring critique.  Namely, that it's the logic behind the critique that needs to be examined for its worth.  So, that's what I'm going to do here.  I'll dissect that quote, sentence by sentence.

On 1/16/2020 at 1:34 AM, Harvey said:

I honestly don't see the appeal of tms.

Okay.  I'll get back to this.

On 1/16/2020 at 1:34 AM, Harvey said:

All it really is is just an idol game with singing and stage performance.

I won't blame you for NOT stepping foot into the TMS subforum, if you're not a fan.  But a wee bit of research would've turned up this topic.  Notice how there's twice as many "I had fun" responses than others, even if it's a self-selecting bunch?  If you read through the responses, you'll see. . .gameplay!  It's one thing to not like an aesthetic, but if you're going to willfully ignore what people love about it, your opinion is based on logic that's incomplete, at best.  Not that you're NOT allowed to like the aesthetic.  But it's dishonest to boil the game down as only its aesthetic.

On 1/16/2020 at 1:34 AM, Harvey said:

And the fact that there is no English dub in this just makes the game overall niche considering that the switch version is already not developing much hype for the game and the marketing effort is lame as it is just trying to put three house costumes and some characters in heroes and that's it.

No English dub - this is a little tricky.  I feel this is a valid complaint, but to do an English dub would be redoing all the music.  Don't know how avex would've liked that.

I don't know why you'd even care about something like marketing if you've already decided that the game's aesthetic isn't to your taste.

On 1/16/2020 at 1:34 AM, Harvey said:

Oh and that one major thing that I heard is getting removed..shocking.

I'll assume you're not being sarcastic.  But to appreciate WHY it's shocking. . .you'd have to know about idol culture.  Which you've already stated that you don't like.  So once again, this sounds like you're complaining just to complain, and that's not cool.

On 1/16/2020 at 1:34 AM, Harvey said:

I have no doubt that the game will bomb whether it gets support or not and that's really sad on Nintendo's part because they are trying so hard to make this game sell but then fatlus screws it over.

It doesn't help that you've made up your mind on Atlus already.  Shame, because the EO games are true gems.

On 1/16/2020 at 1:34 AM, Harvey said:

Lesson to learn Intelligent Systems. Never collaborate with Atlus for fire emblem spin offs and instead collaborate with tecmo koei or heck..even squenix.

Fun fact: SQEX and Tecmo Koei have a game together, and it's great.

Second fun fact: "even SQEX" implies that you think that they're a lesser company than Tecmo Koei.

---

Any questions?

Edited January 28, 2020 by eclipse

[Harvey]

2 hours ago, eclipse said:

I won't blame you for NOT stepping foot into the TMS subforum, if you're not a fan.  But a wee bit of research would've turned up this topic.  Notice how there's twice as many "I had fun" responses than others, even if it's a self-selecting bunch?  If you read through the responses, you'll see. . .gameplay!  It's one thing to not like an aesthetic, but if you're going to willfully ignore what people love about it, your opinion is based on logic that's incomplete, at best.  Not that you're NOT allowed to like the aesthetic.  But it's dishonest to boil the game down as only its aesthetic.

You really want to argue with this do you? First off, I am not a fan of this game both the gameplay and the astethic. If you really want to get into the game, you have to get used to the idol culture as part of the gameplay is based around that which I don't like. Nothing about the theme of the game makes any sense whatsoever especially for a modern setting. The story is weak, the characters are dull and everything else about the game doesn't look promising to me. So its really not just the asthetic as you claim it is because the whole game is around the idol culture which is making songs to attack and dancing to do some buffs and whatnot. 

That topic you've posted also mentioned some posts that say that if you can't get used to the idol culture, you can't get immersed into the game and that's the reality. So its not like the astethic alone is to be judged here. If you're still going to argue that its not the case, that's on you because I've seen actual gameplay footage and it did involve a large chunk of singing and dancing especially if you want to do a whole lot of special attacks.

And again, this is unpopular opinion, so what's your point? This is about a topic where you have opinions that others don't get right? Or if you have some grudge itching on you that you can't accept the reality that there are those that cannot stand the existence of TMS?

3 hours ago, eclipse said:

It doesn't help that you've made up your mind on Atlus already.  Shame, because the EO games are true gems.

 

2 hours ago, eclipse said:

No English dub - this is a little tricky.  I feel this is a valid complaint, but to do an English dub would be redoing all the music.  Don't know how avex would've liked that.

I don't know why you'd even care about something like marketing if you've already decided that the game's aesthetic isn't to your taste.

 

2 hours ago, eclipse said:

No English dub - this is a little tricky.  I feel this is a valid complaint, but to do an English dub would be redoing all the music.  Don't know how avex would've liked that.

I don't know why you'd even care about something like marketing if you've already decided that the game's aesthetic isn't to your taste.

If its a valid complaint, don't argue about it then. Plain simple. As for why I care about the marketing and what not? Because the people who wasted their time making this game would want it to perform well whether its niche or not. And if it doesn't, their efforts go wasted and while that is partly true in every game released, this one I feel should be an exception because Nintendo attempted to go to Atlus to make a crossover of Shin Megami and Fire Emblem and it resulted in this...a game that no one even asked for getting a port. Infact, I even wonder why Nintendo bothered to port the game on Switch knowing the demand is so little. Its just wasted to my eyes because they could do better things like..oh idk, porting a Fire Emblem GBA compliation which has the three Fire Emblem games on Switch which is far more demanding than TMS?

 

3 hours ago, eclipse said:

It doesn't help that you've made up your mind on Atlus already.  Shame, because the EO games are true gems.

Fun fact: SQEX and Tecmo Koei have a game together, and it's great.

Second fun fact: "even SQEX" implies that you think that they're a lesser company than Tecmo Koei.

---

Any questions?

 

What does that have anything to do with this? I could make a debate but that would seem to go off topic. But then again, I will admit that I consider Squenix a lesser company than the former(which fyi, its called Koei Tecmo and not the other way around). And I stick my guns on that because of their failed attempts of even doing proper ports of their classics which is laughable. But like I said before, I'd rather Nintendo collaborate with these devs than doing another with Atlus because this game ruined the potential pitch that Nintendo had tried to venture into and they are better off going to other devs who have more experience in RPGs.

And yes I have a question that I have already asked earlier.

21 hours ago, Harvey said:

And being this is unpopular opinion, why are you even bothered to tell me to fix it?

 

 

 

[Rose482]

I'm not sure if this really counts or not, but here goes:

Fire Emblem is better than Final Fantasy, which is a very overrated series if you ask me.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

 

You really want to argue with this do you? First off, I am not a fan of this game both the gameplay and the astethic. If you really want to get into the game, you have to get used to the idol culture as part of the gameplay is based around that which I don't like. Nothing about the theme of the game makes any sense whatsoever especially for a modern setting. The story is weak, the characters are dull and everything else about the game doesn't look promising to me. So its really not just the asthetic as you claim it is because the whole game is around the idol culture which is making songs to attack and dancing to do some buffs and whatnot. 

That topic you've posted also mentioned some posts that say that if you can't get used to the idol culture, you can't get immersed into the game and that's the reality. So its not like the astethic alone is to be judged here. If you're still going to argue that its not the case, that's on you because I've seen actual gameplay footage and it did involve a large chunk of singing and dancing especially if you want to do a whole lot of special attacks.

 

 

 

Honestly I'd class all that as part of the aesthetic. It's not like it has rhythm elements directly tied to music or anything. It's just that powerful attack X manifests as a song instead of a giant fire ball. In fact, as far as I know, every aspect of the gameplay has been featured in some other TMS game in some form as far as I've heard.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Jotari

[CervantesStache]

Time for some unpopular aesthetic-related opinions (The first one especially, from what i've seen).

• I actually like the visuals of Shadow Dragon/ New Mystery, though I still prefer New Mystery over Shadow Dragon visually, of course.
• I prefer Radiant Dawn's 3D animations to Fateswakening's and most of the ones in Three Houses. 
• I don't really like most Fates music all that much.
• FE6 has more memorable music than FE7 imo, aside from a few good battle tracks in the latter such as campaign of fire and softly with grace.

[Harvey]

45 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Honestly I'd class all that as part of the aesthetic. It's not like it has rhythm elements directly tied to music or anything. It's just that powerful attack X manifests as a song instead of a giant fire ball. In fact, as far as I know, every aspect of the gameplay has been featured in some other TMS game in some form as far as I've heard.

It doesn't matter if its asthetic if you're still required to select those special moves to execute them in which case, its gameplay related. The singing and whatnot are part of the immersion so to deny it as part of the gameplay is being dishonest here because you're ignoring the overall theme of the game which it is idol culture and the game is centralised around it. That's like saying the costumes and what not are optional when in reality, depending on what you wear, it changes the characters stats and skills. So..really, you may as well admit that its part of the gameplay here.

But..I'm going to stop arguing here at this point and bring up another unpopular opinion because its beginning to get old and no one is getting anywhere even trying to defend the merits of TMS doesn't seem to work.

For my next unpopular opinion, I used to be skeptical on Three houses because of its school setting and the way the game is being different and the most I couldn't get into is the artstyle. Early on, I couldn't find the characters that I would like unlike in Fates where I picked Conquest easily because of Camilla and Leo. 

 After looking further and playing the game, although I to some extent find that the school setting is jarring, I was wrong about its artstyle and actually find it the best and a good change. Granted, I would have like the return of the one behind echoes but even this style of 3H isn't very bad. I love the vibrant colors that have been added to the cast and they managed to stand out. Some of my personal favorites are Ignatz, Rapheal and Miranne. 

I however don't understand the criticism of its technical aspects. Yes it doesn't push any boundaries and whatnot but the graphics here are far better than what they have tried for PoR and RD imo.

 

[Ottservia]

42 minutes ago, Harvey said:

I however don't understand the criticism of its technical aspects. Yes it doesn't push any boundaries and whatnot but the graphics here are far better than what they have tried for PoR and RD imo.

 

Who would’ve thought a modern day HD game would be better looking than a game released on a console almost 15 years ago. I never would’ve thought about that. In all seriousness the criticisms of 3H’s technical elements isn’t that people are comparing it to PoR and RD cause of course 3H looks better than a game released on the gamecube or wii. Besides it’s not hard to one up those games in terms of visuals regardless. But when you compare 3H to stuff like BoTW and Mario odyssey or hell even pokemon then you can clearly tell that there’s a drastic difference in quality. When pokemon is better on a technical level then you have a problem.

[Jotari]

59 minutes ago, Harvey said:

It doesn't matter if its asthetic if you're still required to select those special moves to execute them in which case, its gameplay related. The singing and whatnot are part of the immersion so to deny it as part of the gameplay is being dishonest here because you're ignoring the overall theme of the game which it is idol culture and the game is centralised around it. That's like saying the costumes and what not are optional when in reality, depending on what you wear, it changes the characters stats and skills. So..really, you may as well admit that its part of the gameplay here.

But..I'm going to stop arguing here at this point and bring up another unpopular opinion because its beginning to get old and no one is getting anywhere even trying to defend the merits of TMS doesn't seem to work.

For my next unpopular opinion, I used to be skeptical on Three houses because of its school setting and the way the game is being different and the most I couldn't get into is the artstyle. Early on, I couldn't find the characters that I would like unlike in Fates where I picked Conquest easily because of Camilla and Leo. 

 After looking further and playing the game, although I to some extent find that the school setting is jarring, I was wrong about its artstyle and actually find it the best and a good change. Granted, I would have like the return of the one behind echoes but even this style of 3H isn't very bad. I love the vibrant colors that have been added to the cast and they managed to stand out. Some of my personal favorites are Ignatz, Rapheal and Miranne. 

I however don't understand the criticism of its technical aspects. Yes it doesn't push any boundaries and whatnot but the graphics here are far better than what they have tried for PoR and RD imo.

 

Well no, it's not part of the gameplay because the exact same gameplay can be used with a different aesthetic. The aesthetic is definitely part of the game though, so if it doesn't work for you then you won't find enjoyment. But the fact that it's a dance move and not a fire ball has zero to do with the gameplay (but not zero to do with the overall game experience).

[Harvey]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Well no, it's not part of the gameplay because the exact same gameplay can be used with a different aesthetic. The aesthetic is definitely part of the game though, so if it doesn't work for you then you won't find enjoyment. But the fact that it's a dance move and not a fire ball has zero to do with the gameplay (but not zero to do with the overall game experience).

So you're trying to deny that the theme of the game is not part of the gameplay even though its required to be if you need to execute special attacks? Interesting...

 

[Jotari]

26 minutes ago, Harvey said:

So you're trying to deny that the theme of the game is not part of the gameplay even though its required to be if you need to execute special attacks? Interesting...

 

Unless the special attacks require some kind of rhythm or singstar mechanics, then yes (and no I wouldn't consider a few seconds to decide between two different special attacks as an animation plays as a rhythm mechanic). It is not part of the gameplay. How could it be? The gameplay involves selecting a command from a list of commands that deducts or changes stats of units on the field. That is what the gameplay is. What that gameplay looks like is the aesthetic. You could change the idols for demons and the game would have the exact same gameplay. Literally the exact same. Just like if you replaced on the soldiers with space ships Fire Emblem would have the exact same gameplay even with a wildly different aestetic. This would lead to a different experience while playing the game, but that's because aestetic influences the game, not because the gameplay is different.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Jotari

[eclipse]

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

But..I'm going to stop arguing here at this point and bring up another unpopular opinion because its beginning to get old and no one is getting anywhere even trying to defend the merits of TMS doesn't seem to work.

Your logic is bad, and as long as you continue to parade it around as if it's something to be proud of, I'm going to call you out on it.  Bad logic regarding your taste in video games is unfortunate, but the most you'll get is people telling you that you're wrong.  Apply your method of thinking to something more serious (say, politics or racial issues), and it becomes a huge problem.

If you don't have the strength to face your own flaws and fix them, then you have no place in this topic.  The issue isn't that you don't see the appeal of TMS.  The issue is the fact that you refuse to get past one thing you despise, and that's messing with your logic.

[Hawkwing]

7 hours ago, Harvey said:

I however don't understand the criticism of its technical aspects. Yes it doesn't push any boundaries and whatnot but the graphics here are far better than what they have tried for PoR and RD imo.

• It's thankfully not as conspicuous as it was in Echoes, but the issue of clipping still persists and doesn't take much to spot.
• Units sometimes repeat the exact same animation when attacking twice, despite there being an animations for a second strike. This rarely happened in the 3DS games, but it's glaringly commonplace in Three Houses.
• The conversation system (by this, I mean the system in place that tells a character to shake their head, fold their arms, close their eyes, or all three at once, not the dialogue choices. Think of the animations in games such as Mass Effect and KOTOR) is incredibly simple. Awakenings were also basic, and Fates was a little rough around the edges whenever it tried something new, but given that every support is animated in Three Houses, the problem is a lot more noticeable. It causes the game to look like something out of the early-to-mid 2000's, not 2019.
• The majority of support conversations have a 2D panoramic backdrop, but since the camera moves around so much, it can be easy to tell where the picture bends.
• Several critical attack animations have a slow windup, making it look like the enemy is just standing there, waiting to get hit.
• Battalions disappear and reappear at a whim.
• After being healed, a characters weapon pops back into existence.
• Shields look like they stick to the models via magnetic velcro.
• Every game until Shadows of Valentia is guilty of having arrows travel in a straight line instead of a more realistic arc, but they did a good job at hiding this by having the arrow travel extremely fast. Unfortunately, the arrow travels slow enough in Three Houses that that is becomes distracting.

I have more nitpicks, but the list is long enough. Despite these criticisms, I should point out that I do not think this game looks bad. Lackluster and disappointing are the better words for my thoughts on Three Houses visually. I wasn't expecting the game to have as high quality animations as Shadows of Valentia, as Echoes was the result of working with the same engine for several years, and I am happy to see things like counterattacks after a dodge be present in Three Houses. Still, I am disappointed by how the Three Houses barely has any more polish when compared to how it looked at its E3 reveal, and has a number of animation issues that not even the 3DS games had.

[Jotari]

9 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

• It's thankfully not as conspicuous as it was in Echoes, but the issue of clipping still persists and doesn't take much to spot.
• Units sometimes repeat the exact same animation when attacking twice, despite there being an animations for a second strike. This rarely happened in the 3DS games, but it's glaringly commonplace in Three Houses.
• The conversation system (by this, I mean the system in place that tells a character to shake their head, fold their arms, close their eyes, or all three at once, not the dialogue choices. Think of the animations in games such as Mass Effect and KOTOR) is incredibly simple. Awakenings were also basic, and Fates was a little rough around the edges whenever it tried something new, but given that every support is animated in Three Houses, the problem is a lot more noticeable. It causes the game to look like something out of the early-to-mid 2000's, not 2019.
• The majority of support conversations have a 2D panoramic backdrop, but since the camera moves around so much, it can be easy to tell where the picture bends.
• Several critical attack animations have a slow windup, making it look like the enemy is just standing there, waiting to get hit.
• Battalions disappear and reappear at a whim.
• After being healed, a characters weapon pops back into existence.
• Shields look like they stick to the models via magnetic velcro.
• Every game until Shadows of Valentia is guilty of having arrows travel in a straight line instead of a more realistic arc, but they did a good job at hiding this by having the arrow travel extremely fast. Unfortunately, the arrow travels slow enough in Three Houses that that is becomes distracting.

I have more nitpicks, but the list is long enough. Despite these criticisms, I should point out that I do not think this game looks bad. Lackluster and disappointing are the better words for my thoughts on Three Houses visually. I wasn't expecting the game to have as high quality animations as Shadows of Valentia, as Echoes was the result of working with the same engine for several years, and I am happy to see things like counterattacks after a dodge be present in Three Houses. Still, I am disappointed by how the Three Houses barely has any more polish when compared to how it looked at its E3 reveal, and has a number of animation issues that not even the 3DS games had.

This one really bugs me. I find it so distracting that the backgrounds morph like that. Why do they even do it that way? All the panoramic areas are actual places in the game. Is it really so hard to just plump those two models in that actual 3D area and carry out the scene?

Edited January 28, 2020 by Jotari

[Hawkwing]

15 minutes ago, Jotari said:

This one really bugs me. I find it so distracting that the backgrounds morph like that. Why do they even do it that way? All the panoramic areas are actual places in the game. Is it really so hard to just plump those two models in that actual 3D area and carry out the scene?

Saving on space/memory is about the only reason I can think of. I'm no programmer, but I wouldn't be surprised if constantly loading a 3D environment for each support would add up somewhere, and using a 2D panoramic would be an easy solution to resolve that. I believe Persona 5 uses panoramic backgrounds effectively, so there are probably a lot of tricks to using them that the development team still needs to learn.