What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Sunwoo]

Again, it's like the IS of today is afraid that if they try to write a villainous (or at the least morally gray) path with all of the nuances and moral quandaries it deserves, then people will be turned off to it and won't get as invested in that route's waifu/husbando. So they have to pull some bullshit "both sides" level of writing so that everyone is a good guy, it just matters which side you, the player, want to be on!

It's stupid.

[Ottservia]

Starting to think a lot of you don’t understand what “moral gray” actually means

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

At the time Three Houses was praised as a return to form after Fates as far as the story is concerned. In some areas such as worldbuilding and morality that's still true. But in many areas the two games are more alike than fans of Three Houses want to admit. 

Its especially how the two games handle their villains and antagonists that are eerily similar. With Fates its very obvious that its the siblings in who you're supposed to get invested in, and that team Garon are just plot devices to get the plot moving. All drama and nuance in the antagonist is focused on the siblings while the members of team Garon are bland and devoid of any real traits aside from being cartoonishly evil. Team Garon lacks any nuance because they're not designed to have any. Its not their role to be engaging antagonists. Simultaneously team Garon is also supposed to be so cartoonishly evil that they soak up any evil act that Xander or Ryoma might have done which allows their hands to remain clean.

And with the Slitherers its the same. Its obvious that its the house leaders in who you should get invested in and that the Slitherers are just plot devices. Its the house leaders who get personality, nuance and actual motivations while the slitherers are just cartoonishly evil and were never designed to be anything else. And while making Edelgard a ruthless antagonist was a bold move its somewhat undercut by the fact that like team Garon before them the slitherers are always around to ensure Edelgard's hands can't get too dirty. 

. 

In part 2 sure, but not really part 1. Kronya's desire to just kill people for the sake of sadism is the closest thing anyone has to open motivation in Part 1.

3 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Starting to think a lot of you don’t understand what “moral gray” actually means

You mean "morally" I'm sure.

[Alastor15243]

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

You mean "morally" I'm sure.

No, "moral gray" is in fact a term.

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

No, "moral gray" is in fact a term.

That just sounds weird to me. At least if it's not poetically followed by the lines "In this", as in "In this moral grey". Even just grey morality sounds better.

[NaotoUzumaki]

My point with dimitri is that he accuses of betrayal with no evidence. When Edelgard is confronted by him it basically ill put you head on the gates enbarh. My problem is that he never thought she could be blackmailed into it. My other is him not thinking his step mother would jailbreak Edelgard and die for it. That and he still can’t listen to reason as a hobo. As for an house to rule faerhush pick the lines of Ingrid Felix or even Sylvain to rule, there all nobles who are close friends to dimitri. Hell Ingrid seems like a ver good pick to replace dimitri 

[Etrurian emperor]

On 10/28/2021 at 4:35 AM, Ottservia said:

Starting to think a lot of you don’t understand what “moral gray” actually means

What do you think it means?

Quote

My point with dimitri is that he accuses of betrayal with no evidence. When Edelgard is confronted by him it basically ill put you head on the gates enbarh. My problem is that he never thought she could be blackmailed into it. My other is him not thinking his step mother would jailbreak Edelgard and die for it. That and he still can’t listen to reason as a hobo. As for an house to rule faerhush pick the lines of Ingrid Felix or even Sylvain to rule, there all nobles who are close friends to dimitri. Hell Ingrid seems like a ver good pick to replace dimitri 

House Galathea would be an odd choice for the new royal house. Their dirt poor and thus presumably not very strong and their also only a part of the kingdom since about a generation or so.

Edited October 29, 2021 by Etrurian emperor

[Jotari]

I don't think they'd try to make a new royal house. It was the "Insurrection of the Seven" after all, not "The Prime Ministers Coup". While Ferdinand's father might be the leader of the whole thing and have the most individual power, the name definitely suggests it was more than just him in it and that the other six are powerful individuals with major sway in how the nation is run. They would either find a new puppet leader to act as Emperor, break out into civil war or just copy how the Alliance is run, which is basically keeping the set up of "the Seven" as is only without an emperor figurehead.

Edited October 29, 2021 by Jotari

[Ottservia]

17 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

What do you think it means?

I like to think of it as a sort of “everyone’s a victim” sort of deal. It’s when a story delves into the question of what truly drives a person to act in the way that they do be they hero or villain. True moral ambiguity is when you get the audience to really question who the true villain of the story is and the answer to that question is a lot more complicated than you initially realize. Something I believe Fates pulls off relatively well if I’m being perfectly though it may not seem like that at first. You just gotta dig a little deeper. I mean hell the whole point of Fates’s narrative is that there is no such thing as black and white and that the answer is in the shade of grey between. I mean it’s in the freaking song lyrics for crying out loud not to mention all the blatent daoist symbolism present in the story. Seriously the fact that most people don’t see the blatent yin-yang and wuji symbolism in regards to Hoshido, Nohr, and Valla is beyond me. Like the story is not subtle about it

[AnonymousSpeed]

Sounds like some sophist honky-tonk nonsense, if you ask me. "Oh, the substance isn't there at all, but it uses superficial aesthetic elements of other ideas, so it's totally deep." Get outta here with that communist gobbledygook.

To be more productive, that's not what the term "morally grey" means. Pretty much everybody on the planet understands that is means the right thing to do is unclear and uses the term as such. This is perfectly possible even with obvious and irredeemable villains- for instance, if the severity with which to deal with them is uncertain. Take, for example, pedo hunters. Nobody in their right mind thinks that the peds have reasonable justification, but does that make it right to act as a vigilante and assault, kill, or torture them?

I don't even get why y'all fricks want moral ambiguity in your Fire Emblem plots, considering it has been successful literally 0 times. For Pete's sake, the game already has a built-in morality mechanic in whether you decide to reset for deaths or not. It's not the games' fault you refuse to play as a hardened warrior marching forward over the corpses of your fallen comrades. Dudes seriously be complaining about a lack of depth in something they refuse to engage with.

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Ottservia said:

I like to think of it as a sort of “everyone’s a victim” sort of deal. It’s when a story delves into the question of what truly drives a person to act in the way that they do be they hero or villain. True moral ambiguity is when you get the audience to really question who the true villain of the story is and the answer to that question is a lot more complicated than you initially realize. Something I believe Fates pulls off relatively well if I’m being perfectly though it may not seem like that at first. You just gotta dig a little deeper. I mean hell the whole point of Fates’s narrative is that there is no such thing as black and white and that the answer is in the shade of grey between. I mean it’s in the freaking song lyrics for crying out loud not to mention all the blatent daoist symbolism present in the story. Seriously the fact that most people don’t see the blatent yin-yang and wuji symbolism in regards to Hoshido, Nohr, and Valla is beyond me. Like the story is not subtle about it

Yep. Hans and Iago have some really deep motivation for doing the things they do.

1 hour ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Sounds like some sophist honky-tonk nonsense, if you ask me. "Oh, the substance isn't there at all, but it uses superficial aesthetic elements of other ideas, so it's totally deep." Get outta here with that communist gobbledygook.

To be more productive, that's not what the term "morally grey" means. Pretty much everybody on the planet understands that is means the right thing to do is unclear and uses the term as such. This is perfectly possible even with obvious and irredeemable villains- for instance, if the severity with which to deal with them is uncertain. Take, for example, pedo hunters. Nobody in their right mind thinks that the peds have reasonable justification, but does that make it right to act as a vigilante and assault, kill, or torture them?

I don't even get why y'all fricks want moral ambiguity in your Fire Emblem plots, considering it has been successful literally 0 times. For Pete's sake, the game already has a built-in morality mechanic in whether you decide to reset for deaths or not. It's not the games' fault you refuse to play as a hardened warrior marching forward over the corpses of your fallen comrades. Dudes seriously be complaining about a lack of depth in something they refuse to engage with.

0 times seems a bit overblown. Despite also being one of the most black and white stories in the franchise, I think Jugdral makes some decent attempts at grey morality. They don't delve super deep into it because, lol Lopt, but it is made clear that quite a number of the villains are just fighting for the sake of their families and country.

Also Marth made the immoral choice when he invaded Pyrathi, but the game just doesn't care.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Jotari

[Etrurian emperor]

5 hours ago, Ottservia said:

I like to think of it as a sort of “everyone’s a victim” sort of deal. It’s when a story delves into the question of what truly drives a person to act in the way that they do be they hero or villain. True moral ambiguity is when you get the audience to really question who the true villain of the story is and the answer to that question is a lot more complicated than you initially realize. Something I believe Fates pulls off relatively well if I’m being perfectly though it may not seem like that at first. You just gotta dig a little deeper. I mean hell the whole point of Fates’s narrative is that there is no such thing as black and white and that the answer is in the shade of grey between. I mean it’s in the freaking song lyrics for crying out loud not to mention all the blatent daoist symbolism present in the story. Seriously the fact that most people don’t see the blatent yin-yang and wuji symbolism in regards to Hoshido, Nohr, and Valla is beyond me. Like the story is not subtle about it

But in some cases in Fire Emblem that really isn't the case. Validar for instance absolutely isn't a victim and neither are just about any Gharnef. And I think in this case Fates falls flat because of Nohr. The Kingdom of Nohr is not the victim. The story goes out of its way to point out that Hoshido is the victim getting trampled all over and that Nohr's really irredeemable. If Nohr's poverty had been the driving force of their motivation then it would have been gray, but now the source of their motivation is that team Garon are just a bunch of psychopaths. The balance between the two kingdom is really out of wack with every negative aspect of the world coming from Nohr and Hoshido being a perfect little angle. The story might not be subtle about it wanting to be this way, but Nohr being Nohr means it cannot be that way. 

Nohr and Hoshide seem kinda based on Tracia and the Manster district and I think that one gets the message across a lot better since as vile as Travant can be Tracia is ultimately more poor and desperate than truly evil, and the Manster District really did refuse to help out. Or Arvis who's capable of great evil but who genuinely desires to rule justly and who goes on to do exactly that until it all comes crashing down.

But Fates isn't the only instance of such an event. Even Tellius kinda suffers from the fact that the writers are really hesitant to ''fake everyone a victim''. The conflict between the Beorc and Laguz for instance being about as lopsided as that of Nohr and Hoshido. They say both races are equal but just about every conflict between the races is initiated by the Beorc and usually for really petty reasons. The Beorc have genocidal ambitions towards the Laguz, a history of Laguz slavery, evil scientists experimenting on the Laguz and citizens trying to lynch Laguz on the street while in contrast the only hostility the Laguz show to the Beorc is being really distrustful towards the race that has repeatedly given the Laguz every reason to distrust them.

[Ottservia]

4 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

But in some cases in Fire Emblem that really isn't the case. Validar for instance absolutely isn't a victim and neither are just about any Gharnef. And I think in this case Fates falls flat because of Nohr. The Kingdom of Nohr is not the victim. The story goes out of its way to point out that Hoshido is the victim getting trampled all over and that Nohr's really irredeemable. If Nohr's poverty had been the driving force of their motivation then it would have been gray, but now the source of their motivation is that team Garon are just a bunch of psychopaths. The balance between the two kingdom is really out of wack with every negative aspect of the world coming from Nohr and Hoshido being a perfect little angle. The story might not be subtle about it wanting to be this way, but Nohr being Nohr means it cannot be that way. 

 

This actually feeds into the daoist symbolism that Fates is trying to showcase. Nohr is supposed to represent Yin or darkness and earth. And when you look at it from the tiger and dragon idiom present in buddhism it starts to come together. The tiger in that idiom also represents Yin and tigers are said to be ruthless, relentless, tough, and indomitable. They stick low to the ground and are utterly relentless in their assault. Sound familiar? Yeah it sounds a lot like Nohr and Garon doesn’t it. Yang or heavenly dragons by contrast are more passive and wise. They bide their time and only strike when the opportunity presents itself much like how Hoshido is not the aggressor in this conflict and plays a more passive role until provoked. The daoist symbolism is even present on the covers of each game. Yin is represents more feminine qualities which is why Female Corrin is on Conquest’s cover art while yang represents masculinity and is why Male Corrin is on Birthright’s cover art. You see the story makes a lot more sense when you understand the religious symbolism behind it. Fates’s moral ambiguity comes from its daoist symbolism where the solution to the conflict isn’t in destroying one or the other but rather finding balance between the two which Corrin does in Revelation and that is the reason he’s able to kill Anankos the representation of wuji or emptiness. Like I said Fates that makes you question what you perceive as the truth that is reflected on the water’s surface. In that way I’d consider the story morally ambiguous.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Ottservia

[Kori]

11 hours ago, Ottservia said:

I like to think of it as a sort of “everyone’s a victim” sort of deal. It’s when a story delves into the question of what truly drives a person to act in the way that they do be they hero or villain. True moral ambiguity is when you get the audience to really question who the true villain of the story is and the answer to that question is a lot more complicated than you initially realize. Something I believe Fates pulls off relatively well if I’m being perfectly though it may not seem like that at first. You just gotta dig a little deeper. I mean hell the whole point of Fates’s narrative is that there is no such thing as black and white and that the answer is in the shade of grey between. I mean it’s in the freaking song lyrics for crying out loud not to mention all the blatent daoist symbolism present in the story. Seriously the fact that most people don’t see the blatent yin-yang and wuji symbolism in regards to Hoshido, Nohr, and Valla is beyond me. Like the story is not subtle about it

Consider that most people simply don't know pretty much anything about daoism and buddhism beyond the yin-yang symbol, to the point that whatever symbolism is in Fates doesn't register as something to interpret that they don't understand or even as there at all.

[Etrurian emperor]

2 hours ago, Ottservia said:

This actually feeds into the daoist symbolism that Fates is trying to showcase. Nohr is supposed to represent Yin or darkness and earth. And when you look at it from the tiger and dragon idiom present in buddhism it starts to come together. The tiger in that idiom also represents Yin and tigers are said to be ruthless, relentless, tough, and indomitable. They stick low to the ground and are utterly relentless in their assault. Sound familiar? Yeah it sounds a lot like Nohr and Garon doesn’t it. Yang or heavenly dragons by contrast are more passive and wise. They bide their time and only strike when the opportunity presents itself much like how Hoshido is not the aggressor in this conflict and plays a more passive role until provoked. The daoist symbolism is even present on the covers of each game. Yin is represents more feminine qualities which is why Female Corrin is on Conquest’s cover art while yang represents masculinity and is why Male Corrin is on Birthright’s cover art. You see the story makes a lot more sense when you understand the religious symbolism behind it. Fates’s moral ambiguity comes from its daoist symbolism where the solution to the conflict isn’t in destroying one or the other but rather finding balance between the two which Corrin does in Revelation and that is the reason he’s able to kill Anankos the representation of wuji or emptiness. Like I said Fates that makes you question what you perceive as the truth that is reflected on the water’s surface. In that way I’d consider the story morally ambiguous.

Even that doesn't really make it any better for for grey morality. 

Because why should there be balance between white and black if black doesn't have any redeemable trait to offer white? Why should Hoshido seek balance with the crazy entity trying to destroy them for fun and games? Nohr representing black, darkness and earth has the same meaning as when Grima would have represented those things,. Namely that Yin is crazy and needs to either be destroyed or pipe down while Yang is the undisputed good entity of the story that really doesn't need to change. Only one entity is in the wrong if not completely irredeemable, only one entity needs to find balance and only one entity is out to get the other. 

 

[Florete]

8 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Sounds like some sophist honky-tonk nonsense, if you ask me. "Oh, the substance isn't there at all, but it uses superficial aesthetic elements of other ideas, so it's totally deep." Get outta here with that communist gobbledygook.

To be more productive, that's not what the term "morally grey" means. Pretty much everybody on the planet understands that is means the right thing to do is unclear and uses the term as such. This is perfectly possible even with obvious and irredeemable villains- for instance, if the severity with which to deal with them is uncertain. Take, for example, pedo hunters. Nobody in their right mind thinks that the peds have reasonable justification, but does that make it right to act as a vigilante and assault, kill, or torture them?

I don't even get why y'all fricks want moral ambiguity in your Fire Emblem plots, considering it has been successful literally 0 times. For Pete's sake, the game already has a built-in morality mechanic in whether you decide to reset for deaths or not. It's not the games' fault you refuse to play as a hardened warrior marching forward over the corpses of your fallen comrades. Dudes seriously be complaining about a lack of depth in something they refuse to engage with.

I think Radiant Dawn did grey morality pretty well.

But anyway, "it hasn't been done well before" isn't a reason to not want something. You still want it, but done right.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Ottservia said:

This actually feeds into the daoist symbolism that Fates is trying to showcase. Nohr is supposed to represent Yin or darkness and earth. And when you look at it from the tiger and dragon idiom present in buddhism it starts to come together. The tiger in that idiom also represents Yin and tigers are said to be ruthless, relentless, tough, and indomitable. They stick low to the ground and are utterly relentless in their assault. Sound familiar? Yeah it sounds a lot like Nohr and Garon doesn’t it. Yang or heavenly dragons by contrast are more passive and wise. They bide their time and only strike when the opportunity presents itself much like how Hoshido is not the aggressor in this conflict and plays a more passive role until provoked. The daoist symbolism is even present on the covers of each game. Yin is represents more feminine qualities which is why Female Corrin is on Conquest’s cover art while yang represents masculinity and is why Male Corrin is on Birthright’s cover art. You see the story makes a lot more sense when you understand the religious symbolism behind it. Fates’s moral ambiguity comes from its daoist symbolism where the solution to the conflict isn’t in destroying one or the other but rather finding balance between the two which Corrin does in Revelation and that is the reason he’s able to kill Anankos the representation of wuji or emptiness. Like I said Fates that makes you question what you perceive as the truth that is reflected on the water’s surface. In that way I’d consider the story morally ambiguous.

What? No. That's...that's just plain wrong. Yes, Yin is darkness, but Yin is the passive force while Yang is the active force. The tiger isn't the relentless one, the tiger is the wise one who hangs low to the ground, biding it's time waiting to strike. If they were intentionally using Yin and Yang and not just colour dualism then they just plain got them wrong. If they were actually adhering to the traits of Yin and Yang then it would be Hoshido that would be the aggressor while Nohr would be the force that bides it's time in waiting, though even the whole idea of an aggressor or victor between Yin and Yang completely misses the point. Nohr would absolutely be the, for want of a better term, good nation under a proper utilization of Yin and Yang philosophy, but there wouldn't even be an aggressor to begin with, it'd be an eternally stable conflict. Did you just dive into the merest top levels of Yin and Yang and miss the whole aspect of Yin being the passive force, or did you actually know and just choose to ignore the bits that don't fit into a symbolic reading of Fates? Or did you just read someone else talk about it elsewhere and parrot their views? Because it has to be one of those, as you're literally using the wrong words attributed to the wrong forces here, as in your explanation is inverted.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Jotari

[AnonymousSpeed]

41 minutes ago, Florete said:

But anyway, "it hasn't been done well before" isn't a reason to not want something. You still want it, but done right.

Fair enough, but I stick by the point about permadeath.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 10/28/2021 at 10:58 PM, NaotoUzumaki said:

My point with dimitri is that he accuses of betrayal with no evidence. When Edelgard is confronted by him it basically ill put you head on the gates enbarh. My problem is that he never thought she could be blackmailed into it. My other is him not thinking his step mother would jailbreak Edelgard and die for it. That and he still can’t listen to reason as a hobo. As for an house to rule faerhush pick the lines of Ingrid Felix or even Sylvain to rule, there all nobles who are close friends to dimitri. Hell Ingrid seems like a ver good pick to replace dimitri 

Rodrigue miiight have a claim to rule as "Regent", given his past friendship with Lambert, so long as Prince Dimitri is A) alive and B) visibly crazy. Basically, keep Dimitri in a time-out, and rule in his stead. Not that the other houses (beyond Gautier) would necessarily go along with it.

[Sunwoo]

"Everyone is a victim" is such a shitty way of looking at things. Like no one has any fucking agency over their actions or is responsible for anything, ever. Because it's always someone else's fault and never your own, isn't it?

[NaotoUzumaki]

Thatsthe point and considering three houses aesthetics it’s around the victorian era so having king not be replaced is just stupid. Hence why I hate Dimitri even more if not as much as Rhea. If it was around 1100 of human history I could buy it but when it’s more close historically to the 1800s it just stupid people don’t not have someone else rule. The problem is really the timeline of 3Houses really. There are the closest to entering modern era or industrial era so Rhea and Dimitri HELD ACCOUNTABLE. I hate that when people say Edelgard SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE, and I agree BUT INCLUDE Dimitri and Rhea in there to not look like a hypocrite.

[Samz707]

I'd say there are a few good "Morally Grey" moments but I admit they're more individual moments than being part of the larger plot.

Stuff like Dorcas turning to being a bandit for Natalie or Matthew threatening Nino so he can kill Jaffar are frankly messed up actions, but they're sympathetic and handled well. (or at least, not a trainwreck.)

Though obviously this isn't to the extent of a morally grey war between two armies.

I do think not everything needs to be morally grey, but well, if you promise it, you'd better deliver on it. 

Morally Grey Situations/Aesop in general (Such as advocating for Peace), while great when done well, are IMO one of the most obnoxious things ever when messed up.

While Echoes doesn't go "full" morally grey, I do think it somewhat pulls elements of it off, we hear how Evil Rigel is and we deal with the Military...except once we actually start encountering Villagers, they're peaceful and they're surprised that we aren't evil, this may not have been intentional I admit, but I always took it as both Rigel/Zofia basically being biased against each other due to Duma/Mila's hatred of each other while not actually being that different for the average commoner. (Obviously less so for the Duma Faithful and Rigel Military but Zofia's ruler Lima wasn't exactly the greatest person either.)

Hell, even when you go to Archanea, they're surprised you're not savages, so I do think FE could somewhat pull it off, it's just that IS are bad at it. (Same with Avatars.)

Edited October 30, 2021 by Samz707

[Ottservia]

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

What? No. That's...that's just plain wrong. Yes, Yin is darkness, but Yin is the passive force while Yang is the active force. The tiger isn't the relentless one, the tiger is the wise one who hangs low to the ground, biding it's time waiting to strike. If they were intentionally using Yin and Yang and not just colour dualism then they just plain got them wrong. If they were actually adhering to the traits of Yin and Yang then it would be Hoshido that would be the aggressor while Nohr would be the force that bides it's time in waiting, though even the whole idea of an aggressor or victor between Yin and Yang completely misses the point. Nohr would absolutely be the, for want of a better term, good nation under a proper utilization of Yin and Yang philosophy, but there wouldn't even be an aggressor to begin with, it'd be an eternally stable conflict. Did you just dive into the merest top levels of Yin and Yang and miss the whole aspect of Yin being the passive force, or did you actually know and just choose to ignore the bits that don't fit into a symbolic reading of Fates? Or did you just read someone else talk about it elsewhere and parrot their views? Because it has to be one of those, as you're literally using the wrong words attributed to the wrong forces here, as in your explanation is inverted.

really? Cause every time I’ve seen the symbolism/motif used the tiger or yin is always depicted as the more active, relentless, and idealistic one while yang is usually depicted as more passive. I mean it’s like that in Toradora, ace attorney, Pokemon, Naruto, and One Piece. And every source I read on the subject when I went to fact check myself said the same so there’s something that’s being lost here. I couldn’t tell you what it is though. The doaist symbolism is still pretty blatent in fates though even disregarding that. I mean it’s even in the titles of each verse of lost in thoughts. In conquest it’s titled “land” while in birthright it’s titled “sky” referencing the other things yin and yang represent those being heaven and earth. The daoist symbolism also explains why Valla is empty and desolate because it’s supposed to represent wuji or the absence of yin and yang. There’s also the Yato which only fully awakens when the powers of light and dark are combined into it. It’s like a kyurem situation from Pokémon

Edited October 31, 2021 by Ottservia

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

2 hours ago, NaotoUzumaki said:

Thatsthe point and considering three houses aesthetics it’s around the victorian era so having king not be replaced is just stupid. Hence why I hate Dimitri even more if not as much as Rhea. If it was around 1100 of human history I could buy it but when it’s more close historically to the 1800s it just stupid people don’t not have someone else rule. The problem is really the timeline of 3Houses really. There are the closest to entering modern era or industrial era so Rhea and Dimitri HELD ACCOUNTABLE. I hate that when people say Edelgard SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE, and I agree BUT INCLUDE Dimitri and Rhea in there to not look like a hypocrite.

Where does this sense of timing come from? Three Houses is set in an essentially feudal system, dominated by various noble houses with a politically powerful Church. There are no observable democratic processes or institutions. As for technology, there's no one-to-one comparison, given the existence of magic and monsters in Fódlan. But technology seen in Victorian Era England, like trains, firearms, and electricity, are generally absent in this game. Travel is dominated by horse or wyvern, and combat is ruled by swords and bows. The Agarthans may have "higher tech" (including ersatz nukes), but they occupy an underground society parallel to that of the playable cast.

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Ottservia said:

really? Cause every time I’ve seen the symbolism/motif used the tiger or yin is always depicted as the more active, relentless, and idealistic one while yang is usually depicted as more passive. I mean it’s like that in Toradora, ace attorney, Pokemon, Naruto, and One Piece. And every source I read on the subject when I went to fact check myself said the same so there’s something that’s being lost here. I couldn’t tell you what it is though. The doaist symbolism is still pretty blatent in fates though even disregarding that. I mean it’s even in the titles of each verse of lost in thoughts. In conquest it’s titled “land” while in birthright it’s titled “sky” referencing the other things yin and yang represent those being heaven and earth. The daoist symbolism also explains why Valla is empty and desolate because it’s supposed to represent wuji or the absence of yin and yang. There’s also the Yato which only fully awakens when the powers of light and dark are combined into it. It’s like a kyurem situation from Pokémon

No, Yin is the passive element. It's pretty standard sexism. Women are the passive gentle gender while men are strong active one. But even if the aesthetic if Nohr and Hoshido were swapped to actually match Yin and Yang, it still wouldn't be exploring the actual concept which, as I said, would have required and endlessly stable war with no aggressor at all. Conquest and Birthright would have straight up bad endings. Not, as they are now, ostensibly happy endings with some fridge logic as to what happens next that needed DLC to address.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Jotari