Your top 5 wanted units to get demoted in star rating.

[Silith13]

Bartre from 3-4 stars to 1-2

3% focus
3% 5-star
14% 4 star
21% 3-star
26% 2-star
33% 1-star.

Wouldn't that be great?

[Cute Chao]

Hmmm... 

I have to agree with Genny. Healers could have been made more useful, but they're still stuck. Even with just Wrathful Staff 2 being available, it would have given opportunity for more builds with healers, at least. I hope they release more units with it, since I don't see them demoting anyone. 

From a more selfish pov... Eldigan. No reason for it past me wanting him. Same with Jaffar and Karel xD 

And yeah, Hinoka for her skill and the fact her counterpart is 4-5*, with little difference I can see between them besides colour. At least Elise has a reason over Sakura to be locked (being, from what I understand, the best healer in the game with the addition of a horse for horse emblem?). 

[XRay]

2 minutes ago, Lushen said:

True, but it makes it harder to use unis like Mages and Dagger users, which make up a lot more units than brave bow Cordelia and Summer Gaius.  I just think it deserves to be more rare than most skills.  

Hector and Takumi are both fan favorites.  And they're only available as 5*s which makes it hard to sacrifice them when you get one.  It's the same reason I have 10 5*s I never really use, I'm not going to SI them because many of them are hard to get and you never know when you'll need them.  Hector and Takumi can both be very good if your main team can't do a GHB, so it's nice to have them in reserve.   This is why they're difficult to sacrifice, not because they're the absolute best units in the game statwise ( though both are up there).

Many Blade mages run Desperation, so DC does not really affect them if the enemies are dead in two hits. Outside of Poison Dagger and Kagero, dagger units are not going to kill much anyways, they can run Windsweep and Phantom Speed if they have a problem with being counterattacked.

Robin is a fan favorite and he is a 3*. Gaius is pretty popular too. Camilla is a 4*-5* even though Hinoka is 5* exclusive. There are also plenty of 5* who are not fan favorites. No one is going to lightly sacrifice 5* units anyways, but that is more due to the rarity than the character themselves. Hector and Takumi are both very good for GHB, but Mkv.'s video made both of them obsolete.

[Ice Dragon]

I think the biggest problem I'm having with the responses in this thread is that some of the responses are... "not honest"... I suppose is the best way to put it. The same kind of "not honest" that characterizes tsundere, give or take.

"I want Hinoka to be available as a 4-star pull because I want Hone Fliers, dammit," is perfectly reasonable. The reasoning is sound, and the intent is absolutely clear. Same with something like "I want Jakob to be dropped to a 3-to-4-star pull because I want him to stop resetting my pity bonus."

"Why is Hinoka a 5-star exclusive character?" bugs me because it's obvious that it's because Hone Fliers is a valuable skill, and I think many of the people saying this really just mean "I want Hinoka for Hone Fliers, dammit."

"Hinoka should be made available as a 4-star pull to make Hone Fliers more accessible" also bugs me because it's pretty clear that for the time being, the developers don't want to make Hone Fliers more accessible, and that the people saying this probably really just mean "I want Hinoka for Hone Fliers, dammit."

 

As for characters that are 5-star exclusive or 5-to-4-star exclusive, were not part of the original release cast, and "don't deserve to be available as 5-star pulls", it's because it would be unfair if players spent money to obtain those characters from their release focus banners only to have them available as 3-star pulls afterwards.

Until we have a "season two" summoning pool, I doubt any of the characters that weren't in the original release cast will be reduced to 3-to-4-star pulls. This is basically to answer the "why is this character still part of the 5-star summoning pool?" type questions.

[XRay]

14 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I think the biggest problem I'm having with the responses in this thread is that some of the responses are... "not honest"... I suppose is the best way to put it. The same kind of "not honest" that characterizes tsundere, give or take.

"I want Hinoka to be available as a 4-star pull because I want Hone Fliers, dammit," is perfectly reasonable. The reasoning is sound, and the intent is absolutely clear. Same with something like "I want Jakob to be dropped to a 3-to-4-star pull because I want him to stop resetting my pity bonus."

"Why is Hinoka a 5-star exclusive character?" bugs me because it's obvious that it's because Hone Fliers is a valuable skill, and I think many of the people saying this really just mean "I want Hinoka for Hone Fliers, dammit."

"Hinoka should be made available as a 4-star pull to make Hone Fliers more accessible" also bugs me because it's pretty clear that for the time being, the developers don't want to make Hone Fliers more accessible, and that the people saying this probably really just mean "I want Hinoka for Hone Fliers, dammit."

As for characters that are 5-star exclusive or 5-to-4-star exclusive, were not part of the original release cast, and "don't deserve to be available as 5-star pulls", it's because it would be unfair if players spent money to obtain those characters from their release focus banners only to have them available as 3-star pulls afterwards.

Until we have a "season two" summoning pool, I doubt any of the characters that weren't in the original release cast will be reduced to 3-to-4-star pulls. This is basically to answer the "why is this character still part of the 5-star summoning pool?" type questions.

But what is wrong with Tsunderes? They turn many people on.

And for the fourth paragraph, I do not see the difference between those two statements except one is more concise than the other. The more concise statement already implies the former, longer statement.

[Silith13]

On a more serious note I think it's good for some of the 5-star exclusives at release to become 4-5 and a few of the 4-5's to become 3-4's. But it would need pretty good restrictions which go down. Valueable skills such as distant counter/close counter should stay where they are (as much as I personally would love to have them) And some units with unique weapons shouldn't get moved down as eaily either.

So here's a list of units I think are good for getting pulled down.

5 to 4-5

Hawkeye, Raven, Elise, Leo, Tiki(young), ((And maybe Azura))

From 4-5 to 3-4

Camilla, Catria, Chrom, Fae, Jakob, Lilina, Maria, Nowi, Peri, Sakura, Sheena.

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, XRay said:

And for the fourth paragraph, I do not see the difference between those two statements except one is more concise than the other. The more concise statement already implies the former, longer statement.

The difference is the scope. "I want something to be so" is quite different from "this should be so", and the former does not imply the latter.

The scope of the former is personal. Unless the person saying so is lying or has a contestable reason for wanting such, there's no reason to contest it.

The scope of the latter is global and implies that "this should be so" for anyone, not just yourself.

As for the former implying the latter, that's not necessarily the case. I, for example, want to be able to pull seasonal characters indefinitely, but that's obviously not something that I think should happen. For one, that reduces the novelty of the characters, and for two, that undermines a source of revenue for Nintendo, and I think making sure this game is bringing is money so that they keep it running longer is more important than me getting more copies of characters that I want.

 

3 minutes ago, Silith13 said:

5 to 4-5

Hawkeye, Raven, Elise, Leo, Tiki(young), ((And maybe Azura))

Hawkeye and Raven are already 4-5.

[XRay]

8 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The difference is the scope. "I want something to be so" is quite different from "this should be so", and the former does not imply the latter.

The scope of the former is personal. Unless the person saying so is lying or has a contestable reason for wanting such, there's no reason to contest it.

The scope of the latter is global and implies that "this should be so" for anyone, not just yourself.

As for the former implying the latter, that's not necessarily the case. I, for example, want to be able to pull seasonal characters indefinitely, but that's obviously not something that I think should happen. For one, that reduces the novelty of the characters, and for two, that undermines a source of revenue for Nintendo, and I think making sure this game is bringing is money so that they keep it running longer is more important than me getting more copies of characters that I want.

Ah. Okay. The personal vs global makes sense.

I am not too worried about this game being in the green though. Due to a better business model and/or a wealthier fan base, we are generating more revenue than Mario Run with only a tenth of that game's download. We might run much bigger expenses, especially with the constant updates, but I think we may still be more profitable.

[Sire]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

I think the biggest problem I'm having with the responses in this thread is that some of the responses are... "not honest"... I suppose is the best way to put it. The same kind of "not honest" that characterizes tsundere, give or take.

"I want Hinoka to be available as a 4-star pull because I want Hone Fliers, dammit," is perfectly reasonable. The reasoning is sound, and the intent is absolutely clear. Same with something like "I want Jakob to be dropped to a 3-to-4-star pull because I want him to stop resetting my pity bonus."

"Why is Hinoka a 5-star exclusive character?" bugs me because it's obvious that it's because Hone Fliers is a valuable skill, and I think many of the people saying this really just mean "I want Hinoka for Hone Fliers, dammit."

"Hinoka should be made available as a 4-star pull to make Hone Fliers more accessible" also bugs me because it's pretty clear that for the time being, the developers don't want to make Hone Fliers more accessible, and that the people saying this probably really just mean "I want Hinoka for Hone Fliers, dammit."

 

As for characters that are 5-star exclusive or 5-to-4-star exclusive, were not part of the original release cast, and "don't deserve to be available as 5-star pulls", it's because it would be unfair if players spent money to obtain those characters from their release focus banners only to have them available as 3-star pulls afterwards.

Until we have a "season two" summoning pool, I doubt any of the characters that weren't in the original release cast will be reduced to 3-to-4-star pulls. This is basically to answer the "why is this character still part of the 5-star summoning pool?" type questions.

I hope you are not taking this topic too seriously. I think of this "top 5 most wanted demotions" to be more of a wishlist and a vent for certain characters. Like with XRay, I do not see much of a difference with the 4th paragraph. I think the whole "personal vs global" thing is reading far too much into the text, but that may just be me and my lack of social skills at work. (100% Introvert, INTJ Personality, Woo!...)

As for the demotions, I think the general consensus is that the playerbase knows no one is going to get demoted any time soon. However, I do disagree on it being unfair with "release focus" suddenly being available at a 3-star pull for certain characters. Yes, the character becomes widespread, but it will take considerable investment (leveling up the character, feathers, and badges) to make it into a 5* character. So, those who pay or get lucky get the character "exclusively" for a limited time, and get a 5* version immediately. Those who do not pull said heroes have the chance to get the characters as part of a lower star pool when the banner expires.

That aside, I do not see release characters actually being demoted down to 3 stars because that will likely be a poor business decision (why pay for a 5* character on a release banner when I know I can pull a 3* version later down the line?) Characters drive sales far more than star ratings or natures. It frustrates me that I still have plenty of 5* exclusive characters that I would like, but this is a gacha game and is something one has to deal with.

I had hopes for Season Two in the past, but at this point I am not holding my breath to a new massive expansion to the character pool (especially 3* characters) or characters being shuffled around in terms of rarity. 

[Sunwoo]

@Ice Dragon I'm pretty damn honest with my reasonings, whether you want to believe it or not. Ultimately, I don't really care whether any of the characters I listed are demoted to 4/5-stars, the reasonings I gave just make sense in my mind.

[Ice Dragon]

42 minutes ago, Sire said:

I hope you are not taking this topic too seriously. I think of this "top 5 most wanted demotions" to be more of a wishlist and a vent for certain characters. Like with XRay, I do not see much of a difference with the 4th paragraph. I think the whole "personal vs global" thing is reading far too much into the text, but that may just be me and my lack of social skills at work. (100% Introvert, INTJ Personality, Woo!...)

As for the demotions, I think the general consensus is that the playerbase knows no one is going to get demoted any time soon. However, I do disagree on it being unfair with "release focus" suddenly being available at a 3-star pull for certain characters. Yes, the character becomes widespread, but it will take considerable investment (leveling up the character, feathers, and badges) to make it into a 5* character. So, those who pay or get lucky get the character "exclusively" for a limited time, and get a 5* version immediately. Those who do not pull said heroes have the chance to get the characters as part of a lower star pool when the banner expires.

That aside, I do not see release characters actually being demoted down to 3 stars because that will likely be a poor business decision (why pay for a 5* character on a release banner when I know I can pull a 3* version later down the line?) Characters drive sales far more than star ratings or natures. It frustrates me that I still have plenty of 5* exclusive characters that I would like, but this is a gacha game and is something one has to deal with.

I had hopes for Season Two in the past, but at this point I am not holding my breath to a new massive expansion to the character pool (especially 3* characters) or characters being shuffled around in terms of rarity. 

My point is mostly

1. It bugs me when people don't say what they mean and mean what they say.
2. It bugs me when people ask "why is this character n-star exclusive?" Partly because the question itself gives off a slight tone of indignation.

As much as we probably all know this is a wish list, it would be just a bit nicer if people actually wrote it as a wish list.

[Sire]

21 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

My point is mostly

1. It bugs me when people don't say what they mean and mean what they say.
2. It bugs me when people ask "why is this character n-star exclusive?" Partly because the question itself gives off a slight tone of indignation.

As much as we probably all know this is a wish list, it would be just a bit nicer if people actually wrote it as a wish list.

Huh. I understand the points now, but trying to look at it from that perspective (for me at least) is difficult because nothing here bothers me.

Anyways, sorry for bringing up the subject. I just wanted to figure out what was going on. Must be my psychology degree manifesting itself.

[Lushen]

For the most part, I agree.  I saw a lot of people wanting the best characters or the best SI fodder to be fodder which I thought was a little silly.  But there are some units that really should be 4*

For example, Jaffar.  There's literally nothing about him that would suggest he should be a 5* exclusive.  This is exactly why I think he should be on my wishlist.  If I ignore this fact, then I think literally no one would be on my wishlist.  Just because I want a character doesn't mean I want him/her to be easier to get.  I'm not venting because I'm angry I can't have more Jaffars (though I could use 9 more please), I'm saying there's really no reason he shouldn't be 4*.

[XRay]

25 minutes ago, Lushen said:

For the most part, I agree.  I saw a lot of people wanting the best characters or the best SI fodder to be fodder which I thought was a little silly.  But there are some units that really should be 4*

For example, Jaffar.  There's literally nothing about him that would suggest he should be a 5* exclusive.  This is exactly why I think he should be on my wishlist.  If I ignore this fact, then I think literally no one would be on my wishlist.  Just because I want a character doesn't mean I want him/her to be easier to get.  I'm not venting because I'm angry I can't have more Jaffars (though I could use 9 more please), I'm saying there's really no reason he shouldn't be 4*.

Life and Death is the best A passive for Player Phase builds in general. Distant Counter and Close Counter are the best A passives for Enemy Phase builds. Locking Jaffar behind 5* makes sense to me. Even Swift Sparrow is locked behind 5* despite not being the best, although it is the second best A passive.

Besides the main protagonists, I think the 5* exclusive thing is arbitrary. Luke, Genny, Faye, and Mist bring unique skills to the table, but nothing that usurps the meta game. Panic Ploy is useful against ponies, but the most effective and easiest way is still to bait them apart and overpower them. Wrathful Staff still does not make healers attractive enough to make them main stays. Firesweep is for niche builds. Spur Def/Res is really down to player preferences.

As for Jaffar's banner, Ninian is a Dancer and Karel has Wo Dao, which is unique at the time. Wo Dao is nowhere as impressive as something Life and Death or a new Dancer, so I guess that is why they dropped Athena down to 4* and kept Luke as 5* since Panic Ploy is new.

The only game changing things I see are from limited banners, like Weapon Valor, B!Cordelia, and S!Camilla.

[Alm(mond)]

1. ephraim

2. ephraim

3. ephraim

4. ephraim

5. EPHRAIM!!

I just want ephraim dammit.......

[Lushen]

19 minutes ago, XRay said:

Life and Death is the best A passive for Player Phase builds in general. Distant Counter and Close Counter are the best A passives for Enemy Phase builds. Locking Jaffar behind 5* makes sense to me. Even Swift Sparrow is locked behind 5* despite not being the best, although it is the second best A passive.

True, but we already have 3 characters with L&D 3.  Assuming he would only learn it as a 5*, you could have used a Hana or a freebie Zephiel (everyone should have 2) instead.  Both of which are significantly easier to get than a 4* Jaffar would be.  

[XRay]

4 minutes ago, Lushen said:

True, but we already have 3 characters with L&D 3.  Assuming he would only learn it as a 5*, you could have used a Hana or a freebie Zephiel (everyone should have 2) instead.  Both of which are significantly easier to get than a 4* Jaffar would be.  

When Jaffar was released, only Hana and Minerva were available. Minerva is 5* exclusive, and Hana can only learn it at 5*. Zephiel cannot max it at 4* either. I think they do not want Life and Death 3 to be available at 4* since it is so good.

[DehNutCase]

In all seriousness, I'd be all for 3-4* characters being demoted to 2-3* or even 1-2* if you pull them on a separate, cheaper, perhaps foci-less summoning stone or something.

A much easier way to get things like reposition, and all skills that are maxed at 4*s are available at 2* at level 2, so you can 'test drive' a drive without fully committing to a level 2.

That said, that's only a SI thing---the 3-4* units are already common enough for the purposes of actual usage as a unit.

[MrSmokestack]

1. Jaffar

2. Faye

3. Hector

4. Linde

5. Takumi

6. Luke

I just want all of them! Panic Ploy fodder though