October 30 - Halloween Banner

[Othin]

Without the extra stat points, Henry and Jakob would be hard to justify on teams that use armors for the arena points, like mine. As is, it's still a cost (enough of one that I wouldn't use them in my lead Arena Assault team), but not as big of one. With that in mind, I wouldn't be too surprised if the rationale is just "they get the increased stat spread because of being ranged armors".

[Ae†her]

I pulled just one red to try and boost my chances, but then a god damn 5 star Athena shows out of nowhere with Speed Bane, and Resistance Boon what the literal hell...

[Nanima]

6 hours ago, Usana said:

That isn't a terrible spread. He gets 4 extra HP at the cost of 3 res. At his speed and with hone armor he should be able to avoid getting doubled. So he effectively has +1 to his magical soak and +4 to his physical soak. Of course dealing with Dire Thunder is something people are interested in and due to the Brave effect he is more vulnerable to that. However, he should still survive a Hone Cavlary Quickened Pulse Moonbow Deathblow Reinhardt, even without TA3.

It does knock some damage off Iceberg though. I don't think that will change any matchups though.

Ah, I am glad to hear he isn't unsalvagable then. Might even have some use for him, though the only other good armour unit I have is the Black Knight, and I don't have the feathers to promote him for some time. Oh well at least I still got a decent unit out of the banner.

7 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

You also have all month to try for Sakura, so you have more time.

The thing is, I am scared of spending all my orbs for the month on this banner and then have the December banner include Takumi. I've given myself until the 15th to get Sakura and then it's back to saving orbs just in case.

[Wanda]

16 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

"They're supposed to have high stats" is not the same as "they're supposed to have as high of stats as they do".

The standard penalty for ranged units is -3 to base stats and -15 to growths compared to their melee-ranged counterparts. Henry and Jakob have -2 to base stats and -5 to growths due to the fact that they have the same bonuses that Ayra does over their standard class's stats.

Note that I'm not arguing that they are or aren't power creep, but I'm saying that you seem to be missing an understanding of how stats work in this game.

No, I just don't care about the minutiae of their stat penalties, precisely because they aren't game-changing or powercrept units.

[Sunwoo]

1 hour ago, Nanima said:

The thing is, I am scared of spending all my orbs for the month on this banner and then have the December banner include Takumi. I've given myself until the 15th to get Sakura and then it's back to saving orbs just in case.

Fair enough, although if the trailer for the December special heroes is released before the Halloween banner ends and nothing else that shows up interests you, that could leave you with another opportunity for Sakura.

[Nanima]

7 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Fair enough, although if the trailer for the December special heroes is released before the Halloween banner ends and nothing else that shows up interests you, that could leave you with another opportunity for Sakura.

That's a good point. I will do that. Thank you for the tip.

[eclipse]

10 hours ago, Phoenix_Kensai said:

So... a bit over 200 orbs in, and I have two Jakobs to show for it so far. Not who I was hoping for, but my luck could be worse.

I like to keep at least one copy of every unit, but what should I do with the spare? Is he good for skill inheritance, or should I just merge them?

Your options are:

- Panic Bow: I don't know if there will be more rally-like buffs in the future (gut says yes).  If so, then this bow is one way to make those units cry.
- Bracing Blow: Good for any unit that both initiates combat, and sucks at killing a large subset of opponents (Lunge!Sheena comes to mind, but why would you do that).
- Wary Fighter: Effie/Zephiel can pass this instead.

Hardly the best, but he's not totally useless IMO.

[Ice Dragon]

3 hours ago, Wanda said:

No, I just don't care about the minutiae of their stat penalties, precisely because they aren't game-changing or powercrept units.

Going into a discussion about character stats without caring about the mechanics is the same as going into a discussion of a history class reading without having done the reading (or having read the Spark Notes). An uninformed opinion does not contribute meaningfully to a discussion.

If you're going to argue that Henry and Jakob are not power creep, you're going to have to address their stats to defend that argument.

[dragonlordsd]

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Going into a discussion about character stats without caring about the mechanics is the same as going into a discussion of a history class reading without having done the reading (or having read the Spark Notes). An uninformed opinion does not contribute meaningfully to a discussion.

If you're going to argue that Henry and Jakob are not power creep, you're going to have to address their stats to defend that argument.

Power creep is inevitable. If it doesn't happen now, it will happen eventually.

That said, Nowi and Sakura don't have inflated bst, and none of their skills seem particularly exceptional.

As for Jakob and Henry, it's kind of hard to call them power creep since there are no existing armor mages or armor archers to compare them to.

What exactly are they an improvement over?

Regular archers? I don't think any one's going to be throwing out their Bridelia or Bow!Lyn any time soon.

Regular mages? I guess so? Maybe?

[Ice Dragon]

50 minutes ago, dragonlordsd said:

Power creep is inevitable. If it doesn't happen now, it will happen eventually. -snip-

I'm not sure what you're responding to. Where exactly did I say anything on this banner was power creep?

[redlight]

If anything, this banner gave some life to dagger users with the anti-mage kit.
i do think that power creep will happen, but it'll just replace older and common units with potentially better ones. i would like to see more units with their own personal skills so that there won't always be unit stat comparisons to determine the best unit.

[Hilda]

40 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

If anything, this banner gave some life to dagger users with the anti-mage kit.
i do think that power creep will happen, but it'll just replace older and common units with potentially better ones. i would like to see more units with their own personal skills so that there won't always be unit stat comparisons to determine the best unit.

not really. unless there comes a Brave-Dagger out Dagger users will remain dead period. The new Sakura Daggers are a nuisance and only makes it possible for them to be more effective to some degree checking mounted/armored mages (Halloween Henry), but in return loose effectiveness against any Infantery Melee/bow/healer.
In short: Debuffing isnt existent unless they really do somethign about debuffs wearing off after one move and the ORKO meta. until then Daggers remain useless, ecxept if they give them some exclusiv special that allows them to deal significant damage (Regnal Astra for example)

Edited October 31, 2017 by Hilda

[redlight]

Just now, Hilda said:

not really. unless there comes a Brave-Dagger out Dagger users will remain dead period. The new Sakura Daggers are a nuisance and only makes it possible for them to be more effective to some degree checking mounted/armored mages (Halloween Henry), but in return loose effectiveness against any Infantery Melee/bow/healer.
In short: Debuffing isnt existent unless they really do somethign about debuffs wearing off after one move.

i meant that they added some utility to them as mage killers. i didn't say anything about them being relevant. they'd be used for something like squad assault or chain challenge with that dagger. but not much arena

[Ice Dragon]

10 minutes ago, Hilda said:

unless there comes a Brave-Dagger out Dagger users will remain dead period.

A Killer Dagger would also help. Or access to Wrath or a similar skill. Or a non-infantry dagger user. Or dagger-specific skills that give them a niche that actually exists.

Or Lethality (at 4 cooldown or less).

 

EDIT: A Brave Dagger would have so low Mt that the unit would be almost guaranteed worse than Quadsuna.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Ice Dragon

[redlight]

2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

A Killer Dagger would also help. Or access to Wrath or a similar skill. Or a non-infantry dagger user. Or dagger-specific skills that give them a niche that actually exists.

Or Lethality (at 4 cooldown or less).

 

EDIT: A Brave Dagger would have so low Mt that the unit would be almost guaranteed worse than Quadsuna.

definetely killer dagger or a firesweep one

[dragonlordsd]

1 hour ago, silveraura25 said:

definetely killer dagger or a firesweep one

Firesweep one would be ideal.

The biggest weakness of daggers is that anything strong enough that you actually need to debuff would kill them in one hit anyway (think every tempest trial boss we've ever had).

Firesweep would go a ways towards fixing that.

[YotsuMaboroshi]

1 minute ago, dragonlordsd said:

Firesweep one would be ideal.

The biggest weakness of daggers is that anything strong enough that you actually need to debuff would kill them in one hit anyway (think every tempest trial boss we've ever had).

Firesweep would go a ways towards fixing that.

I'd rather a dagger version of Dazzling Staff than a Firesweep dagger, as that would let Jaffar still use his PRF (as well as helping to enable any other potential PRF dagger users).

[dragonlordsd]

1 minute ago, YotsuMaboroshi said:

I'd rather a dagger version of Dazzling Staff than a Firesweep dagger, as that would let Jaffar still use his PRF (as well as helping to enable any other potential PRF dagger users).

Also an option.

[Charmeleonbrah]

They should add a dagger weapon that is effective against cavalry.  I believe in Fates there is a weapon named Hunter's Knife that has this effect. 

[Hilda]

53 minutes ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

They should add a dagger weapon that is effective against cavalry.  I believe in Fates there is a weapon named Hunter's Knife that has this effect. 

nah that wont solve the problem. they should just make Dagger users by default effectiv against cavalry and halers effectiv against armorers.

Kagero would become meta relevant again somewhat with her dagger and this effectivness (would that mean that sakuras dagger + this effectivness would give 100% atk bonus against mounted tome users? lulz). or like described above: A dazzling staff like skill.

[mcsilas]

I still say there should be a skill that adds the debuffs to the actual damage that a dagger deals

Well I'm just glad they made better version of existing, low-tier characters like Henry, Sakura and Jakob. (Nowi was already good but at least she has a different niche)

It's good for fans of those characters who were really disappointed about the original's stats/playstyles.

I'd say this is an ideal seasonal banner- good for fans of said characters, units that have different niches, but also not too popular/game-breaking that you need to have one just to keep up with the metagame and you can just skip them and save orbs if you don't care about said characters.

Edited October 31, 2017 by mcsilas

[Poimagic]

I would like to point this out, but H!Nowi is way better than Summer Corrin. A) She has more attack than an +atk Su!Corrin. B) Sure, she has less speed, but it's only by 2 points and that can easily be fixed with LnD and +spd. C) With flyer buffs, she has a really good combat potential and can help other flyers with hone flyers. And there are my reasons for why I believe H!Nowi is better than Su!Corrin. But I will agree that spring Camilla is way better than H!Nowi

 

 

Fun Fact: Did you know that Su!Corrin has the same base attack stat as PA!Shigure?

[Charmeleonbrah]

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

nah that wont solve the problem. they should just make Dagger users by default effectiv against cavalry and halers effectiv against armorers.

Kagero would become meta relevant again somewhat with her dagger and this effectivness (would that mean that sakuras dagger + this effectivness would give 100% atk bonus against mounted tome users? lulz). or like described above: A dazzling staff like skill.

Is effectiv a meme? 

 

3 minutes ago, Poimagic said:

I would like to point this out, but H!Nowi is way better than Summer Corrin. A) She has more attack than an +atk Su!Corrin. B) Sure, she has less speed, but it's only by 2 points and that can easily be fixed with LnD and +spd. C) With flyer buffs, she has a really good combat potential and can help other flyers with hone flyers. And there are my reasons for why I believe H!Nowi is better than Su!Corrin. But I will agree that spring Camilla is way better than H!Nowi

 

 

Fun Fact: Did you know that Su!Corrin has the same base attack stat as PA!Shigure?

With H! Nowi I can start a flier emblem team that includes characters other than axe users.  She has perfect synthesis with a flying team due to her skills; she comes ready right out of the box.  And, besides the higher attaq, she has the +5 Atk/Res skill.  Are you making her a Blade Tome user?

[Poimagic]

12 minutes ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

Is effectiv a meme? 

 

With H! Nowi I can start a flier emblem team that includes characters other than axe users.  She has perfect synthesis with a flying team due to her skills; she comes ready right out of the box.  And, besides the higher attaq, she has the +5 Atk/Res skill.  Are you making her a Blade Tome user?

Well first it depends on if I get her. Hopefully I will. And if I do get her, it depends on her nature on how I build her. +spd or +ark equal Blade build. If anything but that, than a support build.

[Charmeleonbrah]

4 minutes ago, Poimagic said:

Well first it depends on if I get her. Hopefully I will. And if I do get her, it depends on her nature on how I build her. +spd or +ark equal Blade build. If anything but that, than a support build.

It's been tough being stuck in red hell the past few weeks, with Sigurd, Ayra (+ Eldy), and Nowi.  My H! Nowi is of course minus attaq, so she will not be getting the bladetome for me.