Antihero Anonydraft Mafia (Game Over)

[Rain Nijika]

10 minutes ago, Mello said:

1) If you're talking about the quickhammer comment, it doesn't make sense to me. I wouldn't interpret it as directed towards Faye, if anything I'd interpret it as directed towards Rick, sine he was the one who called for a quickhammer on Kichiko; The Batter was talking about purifying corruption and cleansing the land, so compared to Rick that is more obviously RP.

 

2) What made you come to that conclusion?

1)Batter's comments make sense in the scope of his game (though is he an antihero? Someone else can be The Judge of that), so it is rp, yeah.

2)Well at first I was convinced Faye was scum since I had her on lynch priority 1 all day, so suggesting the shot was for the fringe case that she was town vengeful.

Here's the interaction that I'm going on about, for reference. Bolding a part of Faye's excerpt for emphasis:

On 1/4/2018 at 10:18 AM, Endeavor said:

On 1/3/2018 at 8:12 PM, Faye Valentine said:

##Vote: Endeavor

I've dealt with you fiery types before, literally and metaphorically. I won't say much since Rick has already clarified for the most part why our friend Endeavor's actions were scummy, but I also ask why people need justification for the first wagon of the game. We need reactions for God's sake, and being picky about the early content that is created limits potential interactions, giving us fewer chances to find scum.

I agree with us needing interactions miss, but calling for a quick hammer after the game hasn't been going on for a full hour is taking it a bit far don't you think? At the time he made that comment, there were already 5 votes on the good man, and keeping in mind the game likely contained a mayor (which has now been confirmed), his actions were overdoing it.

I read the response to be directed to bolded, which IMO mischaracterizes what Faye is saying. I can read it now and sort of sea what endeavour is claiming he said, but it is not clear at all in context of quoted IMO.

I mentioned this whole thread briefly on page 24, but I figure bringing it up verbatim will not do any harm.

[Olivier]

Quite frankly, I'm uncomfortable with this Endeavor lynch.  Toshio has been scumreading him since D2, and Kokichi has been actively analyzing his responses, but I don't get where Batter and Lapis are coming from here; at best, they're being lazy town.  Not only is Omar's defense of him good (people voting him NEED to address this and explain why it makes sense as scum/scum because I'm not seeing it), but I'm less bothered by him after Faye's flip and his posts today.  I thought he was trying to counterwagon me to save his buddy, but that's clearly not the case.  There are still a few things about him that bother me (Kokichi's case is good), but it's not nearly strong enough to make him the defacto lynch of D3 without any thought.

@Omar Little Why do you think Rick voted one of his scumbuddies D1 as opposed to just casing them?  Do you think Scum!Beast would be honest about where his vote is coming from or is the mutt just WIFOMing?

@Lapis Lazuli Why is Endeavor scummier than me, especially considering you were more conflicted on Endeavor yesterday?  Feels like there's a logical leap that I'm not seeing here, which bothers me.

@Toshio Ozaki Do you think Scum!Beast would vote his buddy (Scum!Endeavor) at the end of yesterday because his case was more original?  I feel like if he wanted to stay off the wagon and vote his scumbuddy, he would have just said it was his strongest case.  Why is Batter almost certainly town?  If it's meta, my impression is that his D1 was good but he's dropped off since then.  D2 is understandable because the person he was voting was largely absent, but his play today is much less so.  For someone dedicated to purging evil, I'd hope he'd at least reevaluate some things after lynching two paragons of hope!

@Mello Did you really not read the OP after subbing in?  I find it hard to believe that you didn't know Rick was flipped scum...Also, why are you okay w/the Endeavor lynch despite making no comments on the slot previously?  Are you both in cahoots, working for the ultimate despairs?!

@Endeavor I told Faye to vig you if she was Vengeful, not Lapis.  I'm sorry for being bothered by a professional hero, but I expected more from someone who claims to be on the side of hope than this!

[Olivier]

Looking at my current reads, I feel like I have to be wrong about at least one of Toshio Ozaki/Omar Little/The Batter and that person has secretly been a despair this whole time.  The problem is, I'm not sure how to look into them or push it because there's only one thing that bothers me about each of them (Toshio/Rick interactions, gut read on Omar and a feeling that I'm dismissing him too easily, Batter low efforting today).  I feel decent about Endeavor, but I'm willing to listen to any followups on him; might just be me being overly paranoid.  At the moment, I want to vote Beast just because of PoE, but I'll reread him to make sure.

[Rain Nijika]

I agreed with that so he's not wrong. He just went up on me because he has a case on me and he thinks you're townie.

I'll elaborate more on it but did you still post that with having read the above post?

Also, here's a question for everyone: When do we mass claim? I know we're in a relatively safe spot now, and massclaiming might expose certain powers to danger, but at the same time, there's another role of some sort aside from Strongman, so maybe getting everybody pinned down today is a better option. I'm a little paranoid about that role TBH.

[Olivier]

I didn't read the above post at the time, but I don't get how it explains why Endeavor > Me, especially after his responses (I can get why you'd think that before his responses).

Mass claim would be optimal if we mislynch today.  If we lynch Not!Strongman Scum today, mass claim is also optimal.

[Refakitty³]

@Lapis; are you saying that exchange made you think one of Faye or Endeavour is scum? What specifically makes you think Faye's town flip makes Endeavour worse?

@Nagito; Rick has flipped in the OP? I know I said I was fairly confident before, but I'm going to bump it up to quite confident.

I wasn't really OK with Endeavour being brought to L-1 so early, but I'm OK with his lynch. I'd sheep Pachinko, his Lapis case isn't convincing me, and my strongest scumread so far depends on his flip.

Looking at Rick's ISO, he seemed to always be keeping his options open. When he voted Endeavour, he implied it was a pressure vote and he'd choose Mello if he had to lock in - definitely over Kratos, possibly over Endeavour. Later on, he was alarmed by the manner of Crowler's claim and lowkey tried to convince you to vote him.

 

--

Agree with massclaiming on a mislynch or not-strongman lynch. Would it be worth having vanillas claim first with the role they picked?

 

[Olivier]

That's a good point regarding Rick's voting process.  

Yeah, vanillas should claim first on massclaim.

[Cú Chulainn]

If Mello keeps calling me that then I need to come up with a name for your lame ass too. How about Smello? Seems good to me!

I don't buy into Endie being cleared due to old man Rick's vote because of the rest of the gamestate at the time of the vote. If you assume Smello is town (and that's consensus, so it's probably not a lie) the four main suspicions around that point would be all town in the context of town Endie. That'd be a bit of a whoopsie on our part, but regardless. scum control 3 votes so it's very easy to swing a wagon wherever they need it to be in order to keep their buddy alive when they're all neck and neck, desperately fighting for their lives! In his vote post, the old fogey even gives himself the opportunity to switch across to Smello (or Beast who was also under attack at the time with no real defenders). Sure, it could just be that scum was casing a scummy flavoured townie to blend in, but I think the interaction is null.

Also this is kind of implied but I don't really feel much from Endie's posts today. It's not super townie effort or anything, it's rereading one person alone and then restating previous reads. It's not bad, but not good either and I kinda question why they have no fight in them. 

Lapis grouping hopeboy with Beast is actually kinda fucked up though. Do you really think they're similar (in that you wanted them vig) or was it just a weird way to state suspicions? I hope you have an interesting answer!

Massclaim here is meh and we should just order it with the scummy people first when we decide to do it. All the Strongman has to do is say "hello it's me, the totally townie not vanilla guy, I'm gonna wait for 3 VT claims before saying I'm the Follower because I'm less likely to be CCed" and then we can waste 3 days mowing down vanillas like idiots. Do you want to be an idiot? Nobody does! So don't do that. 

[Rain Nijika]

@Mello That is along the lines of it, yes. Another thing that I've noticed since you pointed out that rick quick hammer thing is that Endeavour's adopting (at least) words (maybe) from other players without implicitly acknowledging it.  The rick bit is example 1, but when he listed his little Nagito read, he used "panicky", which is what I used to describe the reaction from Nagito LD2. Coincidence? Maybe, but it doesn't feel natural given that it's semi-happened twice.

If I'm going to be honest, I am wavering more than a little bit regarding Endeavour, but when I go back to thinking about him, after that faye exchange, there was the part where he didn't address Beast's posts in-thread before showing up as apathetic d2 which is weird given double scum kill. Then, the vote switch on you while waiting for a Faye hammer happened, which I did say was sketchy at the time, and now he's casing me which I know is wrong given I'm town, so IMO there's a pattern there of suspicious behaviour.

But then I guess I need to wonder why he's casing you if it's scum/scum during a mislynch to begin with which throws my reads out of array. 

But then Ouma and Batter see him as scum so there's something there. Which is making me doubt the read on you since why would he target you and not me if you were his scumbuddy? I don't think scum would bus immediately with so many mislynches on the table.

But then if that's the case why did you react the way you did yesterday when you were temporarily leading wagon after endeavour's vote switch where you kind of went after me after I had previously explained why I wasn't voting Faye at the time? This came before you were top lunch candidate statistically. I kind of want to go after Ozaki today because I think calling my posts scummy and not developing it beyond that initial thing, among other things, but then I thought his content was alright up until this point, and well, there's another reason coming up in a bit.

The long and short about it is that I want the Endeavour lynch today, even if I have some doubts , for a few reasons :

1) He's either scum or he proves Vengeful is a thing in this game, which helps a massclaim effort.

2) I'm not 100% comfortable about it but if town goes after other players (inside a pool I'm taking a look at. You're in it.) and forces a claim scum get to make an easier shot tonight, which would defeat the purpose of not massclaiming today.

@Kokichi Ouma I thought at the time those three were the most scummy other than Faye. Think about it. I'm sure as hell not going to ask to be shot, and I was townreading Mello, you, Batter,  and Toshio (at the time). Kratos was clear since that was after my muck-up and Omar was going to prove his role that night + was likely clear. That's 7/10 so who else would I have really suggested?

Also, if it's all VTs I would be very surprised. Could we also claim draft order? I know it's probably not going to amount to much but I figure it'd add another thing scum could muck up, however unlikely that would be.

[Cú Chulainn]

Yeah that's what I figured. I do think it's a little weird to group the hopeless idiot in with Beast when they are vastly different players but I can't remember how exactly you read them at the time.

[Rain Nijika]

OK, so, I don't think the rick example really holds up well, but look at the word "panicky" and its use in context.

[Olivier]

Yeah, I'm probably wrong about Endeavor; both of your last two followups makes a lot of sense to me.  I'll reread Beast still, but to me the only person who makes sense as scum with Endeavor is Omar.

[Rain Nijika]

The uh middle bit is @Nagito Komaeda .

The thing about Beast is that they don't exist today, and yesterday they admitted to being lazy which I don't think is a scumtell but is outright weird, but at the same time they were throwing shade on everyone except Mello to the point where I guess I don't really know where they stand atm. It's a Tale as Old as Time to say that they are baffling, but I think the way you put it is good, in that it's almost as though they're not reading the same thread, since it appears as though they missed Batter's reasoning out why Kratos wasn't scum. I don't really townread the slot but my problem is I find it hard to feel strongly about them in terms of scumminess. I don't know how to put it, but I guess vapid could be a way to describe their content, in that I'm not left with a strong impression.

 

 

[Cú Chulainn]

The scummiest part of Beast imo was them promising more content as the game went later and now we're here... wow! There's nothing there! They had streaks where they posted more and it's hard to know whether or not that down to real life though. There are parts of their content that could look like town trying to solve the game but then they're so all over the place that I think it's impossible to read them with confidence. Ironically, people like that make good liars, because you can never quite be sure if they're telling the truth. 

[All Might]

2 hours ago, Nagito Komaeda said:

Do you think Scum!Beast would vote his buddy (Scum!Endeavor) at the end of yesterday because his case was more original?  I feel like if he wanted to stay off the wagon and vote his scumbuddy, he would have just said it was his strongest case.  Why is Batter almost certainly town?  If it's meta, my impression is that his D1 was good but he's dropped off since then.  D2 is understandable because the person he was voting was largely absent, but his play today is much less so.  For someone dedicated to purging evil, I'd hope he'd at least reevaluate some things after lynching two paragons of hope!

I can't be bothered explaining my townreads but maybe he didn't want to commit to mega scumreading his scum buddy? Want to wait until flips before determining if they're buddies. 

[Olivier]

Asked because you narrowed down scum to Endeavor/Beast/Lapis IIRC and wanted to see where you stood there.

The only thing from Beast that really pinged me was the self deprecation on D2, which seemed more likely to come from scum.

[Rain Nijika]

It might be RL since they haven't shown up since prod. That being said, I think you have a point about that inactivity.

Pseudoedit:

46 minutes ago, Lapis Lazuli said:

 I kind of want to go after Ozaki today because I think calling my posts scummy and not developing it beyond that initial read is suspect (see also his putting Nagito above Ouma or Batter) , among other things, but then I thought his content was alright up until this point, and well, there's another reason coming up in a bit.

 

fixed a line.

I'm going to go do some schoolwork, since I've been playing mafia on and off for the past 9 hours. I'll still be around, but responses will be delayed.

[All Might]

I just wrote people down when I thought of them. I am more likely to lynch Nagito than both those two.

[Refakitty³]

I want a sub, I can't stand being bullied by kimchi anymore.

@lapis; you mean explicitly acknowledging it? Anyway, I see what you mean.

I read Beast, I can't say I disagree with my old player's assessment of him. The reaction to my slot calling him out was somehow both apathetic and passive aggressive.

I don't want to lose momentum and I don't think we need to hear from anyone else. Highly doubt Beast is ever coming back, Omar was around a little while ago, I believe he's said his piece. 

RL-wise, I'm around for a couple more hours, then I'm not back until tomorrow, so having a night phase then would actually work pretty well for me.

##Vote: Endeavour

[Rain Nijika]

I think implicit is the right word to use. He didn't say it explicitly, otherwise I'd have the quote block shoved down my throat by now, nor was there any indication that he wasn't just making it up on the spot outside of near-identical phrasing.

[Olivier]

6 minutes ago, Mello said:

I read Beast, I can't say I disagree with my old player's assessment of him. The reaction to my slot calling him out was somehow both apathetic and passive aggressive.

Can you link this reaction?

[Refakitty³]

 

 

[Refakitty³]

Oh, that's neat.

[C. C.]

why wouldn't rick switch to mello then? maybe i'm dumb but mello had 3 votes vs crawler vs endeavor, wasn't mello not "clear" at that time? This is assuming endeavor is rick's scumbuddy.

[BBM]

Votals 3.2

Endeavor (4): Lapis Lazuli, Kokichi Ouma, Mello (L-1)
Lapis Lazuli (1): Endeavor

Not Voting (5): The Batter, Nagito Komaeda, Beast, Omar Little, Toshio Ozaki

36.5 hours left in the phase. 5 votes to hammer.