indigoasis Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 So for those of you who have played Genealogy of the Holy War and Thracia 776 (or at least know the general plot line), I was wondering what the general consensus on Finn was. I'm pretty sure that most of the community can agree that Finn is one of the best characters in the series (I'm not biased, I swear). Here's the link to his wiki page: http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Finn And Mangs' Character Spotlight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4JNND1mrnw Anyway, what are your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slumber Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 I like his character, never been a fan of him as a unit. Thracia also does a weird thing of implying he's Nanna's father, while at the same time implying Beowulf is Diarmuid's father, which I've always struggled to wrap my head around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Slumber said: Thracia also does a weird thing of implying he's Nanna's father, while at the same time implying Beowulf is Diarmuid's father, which I've always struggled to wrap my head around. The biology of it is simple. What isn't, and probably what you mean, is why did Beowolf abandon Lachesis and why did Finn fill in? I think this could be blamed on FE4, since it doesn't allow for such offspring situations to exist, anyone can marry anyone, Finn has no convos with Beowolf, and we don't get much of the Beo's character in the first place. Doesn't developer notes or something say Lachesis left before Chapter 5 to search for Ares and Grahnye as well? That is not true at all in FE4. Might trying to develop an underdeveloped very open void might be how best to summarize what happened when FE5 tried to handling Lachesis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slumber Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: The biology of it is simple. What isn't, and probably what you mean, is why did Beowolf abandon Lachesis and why did Finn fill in? I think this could be blamed on FE4, since it doesn't allow for such offspring situations to exist, anyone can marry anyone, Finn has no convos with Beowolf, and we don't get much of the Beo's character in the first place. Doesn't developer notes or something say Lachesis left before Chapter 5 to search for Ares and Grahnye as well? That is not true at all in FE4. Might trying to develop an underdeveloped very open void might be how best to summarize what happened when FE5 tried to handling Lachesis? Yeah, from a gameplay perspective and how FE4 pushed its narrative of the children is what throws me off. Obviously Lachesis could hook up with Beowulf, then Finn later when the situation with Beowulf doesn't turn out, but FE4 paints it as "1 father, 2 kids". But at the same time, even within the narrative it makes little sense. Finn leaves shortly after Beowulf joins the army, and doesn't show up again until AFTER Altenna, Leif's little sister, is born. Yes Nanna and Leif are the same age. Edited January 17, 2018 by Slumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigoasis Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said: The biology of it is simple. What isn't, and probably what you mean, is why did Beowolf abandon Lachesis and why did Finn fill in? I think this could be blamed on FE4, since it doesn't allow for such offspring situations to exist, anyone can marry anyone, Finn has no convos with Beowolf, and we don't get much of the Beo's character in the first place. Doesn't developer notes or something say Lachesis left before Chapter 5 to search for Ares and Grahnye as well? That is not true at all in FE4. Might trying to develop an underdeveloped very open void might be how best to summarize what happened when FE5 tried to handling Lachesis? I find it to be a strange situation, although I've heard before somewhere that Beowulf is the father of both Diarmuid and Nanna, which was on the site for the game if I'm correct. A contradiction of this is the manga, where Finn is the father of Diarmuid (and Nanna, although I'm not completely sure). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slumber Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 minute ago, AlmondJuice said: I find it to be a strange situation, although I've heard before somewhere that Beowulf is the father of both Diarmuid and Nanna, which was on the site for the game if I'm correct. A contradiction of this is the manga, where Finn is the father of Diarmuid (and Nanna, although I'm not completely sure). Old developer notes say Beowulf is the father of Diarmuid and Nanna, but FE5 has only Diarmuid(And Fergus, who is also implied to be Beowulf's son from another woman) capable of wielding Beowulf's sword, while at the same time, Nanna, who can wield swords, cannot. And then she gets specific conversations with Finn that paint her as if she was his daughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigoasis Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Slumber said: Old developer notes say Beowulf is the father of Diarmuid and Nanna, but FE5 has only Diarmuid(And Fergus, who is also implied to be Beowulf's son from another woman) capable of wielding Beowulf's sword, while at the same time, Nanna, who can wield swords, cannot. And then she gets specific conversations with Finn that paint her as if she was his daughter. I know Finn acts as the father figure for both Leif and Nanna, but I'll have to read up on those conversations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 51 minutes ago, Slumber said: But at the same time, even within the narrative it makes little sense. Finn leaves shortly after Beowulf joins the army, and doesn't show up again until AFTER Altenna, Leif's little sister, is born. Yes Nanna and Leif are the same age. Not exactly. There is a six month time-gap between chapters 2 and 3, and then one year between chapter 3 and the beginning of chapter 4, when it is when the Leonster trio finally head back there. So that's one year and half to two years. Plenty of time, I'd think. Eh... little sister? I think you mixed them up. 57 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: Doesn't developer notes or something say Lachesis left before Chapter 5 to search for Ares and Grahnye as well? That is not true at all in FE4. Might trying to develop an underdeveloped very open void might be how best to summarize what happened when FE5 tried to handling Lachesis? Well, Genealogy's Chapter 8 has a convo between Nanna and Aless that discuss that particular topic. They do think looking for him was the reason Laquesis came to Manster in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slumber Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said: Not exactly. There is a six month time-gap between chapters 2 and 3, and then one year between chapter 3 and the beginning of chapter 4, when it is when the Leonster trio finally head back there. So that's one year and half to two years. Plenty of time, I'd think. Eh... little sister? I think you mixed them up. Well, Genealogy's Chapter 8 has a convo between Nanna and Aless that discuss that particular topic. They do think looking for him was the reason Laquesis came to Manster in the first place. Older sister, younger sister, same thing. The time frame still doesn't make much sense. Lachesis would have to hook up with Beowulf real fast, have Diarmuid real fast, then move onto Finn and get pregnant with Nanna in about the span of a year and a half, while simultaneously, Ethlin is also getting pregnant with Leif. Edited January 17, 2018 by Slumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Slumber said: Older sister, younger sister, same thing. The time frame still doesn't make much sense. Lachesis would have to hook up with Beowulf real fast, have Diarmuid real fast, then move onto Finn and get pregnant with Nanna in about the span of a year and a half, while simultaneously, Ethlin is also getting pregnant with Leif. Hmm, are Leif and Nanna actually around the same age? If Nanna is younger by a sufficient amount, then it could be plausible. Well, Diarmud only really needs to be born before Sigurd conquers Lubeck Castle. So that time frame could be enough time. And not just for developing a relationship with Beo. I mean, the way her conversation with Beowulf in Chapter 5 if they're paired is worded, seems to imply things. None of her other Chapter 5 married convos bring it up, so it's curious only with Beowulf it happens. Edited January 17, 2018 by Acacia Sgt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkDestr0yer61 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Slumber said: Obviously Lachesis could hook up with Beowulf, then Finn later when the situation with Beowulf doesn't turn out, but FE4 paints it as "1 father, 2 kids". I think the problem with this is gameplay dissonance. While Beowulf could possibly be Diarmund's father and Finn could possibly be Nanna's father. But of course that's in an impossible thing to see in FE 4. Of course things in FE 5 can just be an oversight in not planning things out in FE 4. Now the problem I have with this personally is how will they handle this type of thing in a remake of FE 4 because aside from the implications of Lachesis's childrens. Ced and Fee ARE Lewyn's children (since Ced can use the Forseti). Would they just say screw it and limit pairings for the sake of canon, or would they say screw canon for the sake of gameplay? Anywho, on to the main topic. Finn's a cool guy. He feels a little bit of all over the place in FE 4 due to weapon balance. I think he really gets going when he gets the Brave Lance and his Miracle skill is super unbalanced that he can become immortal if calculated just right. I haven't played FE 5 all the way through, but he seems solid minus the heavily nerfed Miracle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, DarkDestr0yer61 said: Now the problem I have with this personally is how will they handle this type of thing in a remake of FE 4 because aside from the implications of Lachesis's childrens. Ced and Fee ARE Lewyn's children (since Ced can use the Forseti). Would they just say screw it and limit pairings for the sake of canon, or would they say screw canon for the sake of gameplay? Unfixing fathers also creates 2nd Gen characterization issues. As its harder to have a fixed identity, when part of your identity is your parentage. Admittedly this isn't the biggest issue facing 2nd Gen characterization (and Awakening and Fates seem to bear with this well), since most children never even get to see mom and dad (Caipre and Lynn being probably the worst of it since they weren't raised knowing who they are). The bigger issue I think is the Subs, since Febail and Lana would have an obviously different conversation than Febail and Mana and both would be different from Asaello and Mana. Then again, maybe the 2nd Gen just got the short end of FE4's characterization and in a remake the two issues I just stated wouldn't even be real issues. 59 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said: I mean, the way her conversation with Beowulf in Chapter 5 if they're paired is worded, seems to imply things. None of her other Chapter 5 married convos bring it up, so it's curious only with Beowulf it happens. Just to post it because it's relevant to this tangental discussion: Lachesis with Beowulf Lachesis: “Beowulf…” Beowulf: “Lachesis, if anything were to happen to me, I want you to go to Lenster. Fin is there with Cuan’s children. Give him a hand, okay?” Lachesis: “How could you say that? When we go, we’ll go together!” Beowulf: “Lachesis, I’ve got a confession to make.” Lachesis: “Hm?” Beowulf: “I’ve known your true feelings all along.” Lachesis: “What…!” Beowulf:“Take good care of yourself. It was mighty nice while it lasted.” Lachesis: “Wait! Beowolf!” That does sound pretty deadbeat if Beo doesn't have a case of "Chapter 5 Badfeelingitis" and is speaking of the Specter of Black coming in a flurry of Red. Maybe just maybe he's just hiding some real good noble reason why he can't stay with her. Or maybe he thinks her true feelings isn't that she truly loves him and hence he's leaving her to free her up ergo she ruined the relationship!. But the first gut impression on a quick read is his love was a sexual passion. If so, Makalov, it turns out you being the vagabond sword knight wasn't exactly original. And this plus the C8 conversation from earlier mentioned, I guess things really didn't come out of nowhere. 47 minutes ago, DarkDestr0yer61 said: I haven't played FE 5 all the way through, but he seems solid minus the heavily nerfed Miracle Well if you get him to max Luck, with the Brave Lance you have a 90% of Miracle activation. And I think in this game it's a dodge not hit survived with 1 HP that happens. So you can proc Miracle multiple times in a row without any healing in between. If you can get Finn's Luck that high, this might be useful on the early turns (when a reset in case that 10% happened wouldn't be so horrendous) on a outdoor map. But this is purely on paper. Edited January 17, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) I think there's significance he mentions Finn (and Altenna and Leif) specifically. It's unlike, say, her paired convo with Noish, who mentions Aless instead. Edited January 17, 2018 by Acacia Sgt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena_57 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 As for the actual topic, I really like Finn storywise, definitely one of my top 5 favourite characters. Gameplaywise, I quite like him in FE4. Sure, being lancelocked isn't great in the axefests of the earlygame, but he's still serviceable and gets better later on as you face more varied weapons. His availability is great and he's pretty all right for a few 2nd gen chapters as well. In FE5, having the brave lance is great for capturing and he's pretty good as well. As for the whole pairing thingy, FE5 implies Beowulf is Delmutt's father and Finn is Nanna's father, the manga (at least the one I've read) implies Finn is the father of both and I think somewhere else Beowulf was mentioned as father of both. So eh, just make your headcanon whatever you like I guess. I myself quite like FE5's perspective but any pairing where Finn is Nanna's father is cool in my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaxis1 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Finn is one of my favorite characters. And love seeing how this entire conversation about Finn ended up bringing in Beowulf as well. But it makes sense due to how Finn and Beowulf have the entire love triangle with Lachesis. I do think that Beowulf and Lachesis did hook up first, and had Diarmund, but complications rose and eventually Lachesis was alone again and was with Finn afterwards, and clearly there's indications that Finn and her might have gotten married and had Nanna. However, this is where things indicate that Finn and Lachesis weren't able to have a truly functioning relationship, due to Finn's own grief and sadness over how Quan and his wife did, and then Leonster being taken. Leif mentioned that that was the last time that Finn ever expressed emotions. Also, in regards to the Oosawa manga, Finn is the father of both Diarmund and Nanna because Beowulf, alongside Chulainn, doesn't exist, due to how the two of them are Oosawa's least favorite characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 On 1/17/2018 at 12:27 PM, Interdimensional Observer said: Unfixing fathers also creates 2nd Gen characterization issues. As its harder to have a fixed identity, when part of your identity is your parentage. Admittedly this isn't the biggest issue facing 2nd Gen characterization (and Awakening and Fates seem to bear with this well), since most children never even get to see mom and dad (Caipre and Lynn being probably the worst of it since they weren't raised knowing who they are). The bigger issue I think is the Subs, since Febail and Lana would have an obviously different conversation than Febail and Mana and both would be different from Asaello and Mana. Then again, maybe the 2nd Gen just got the short end of FE4's characterization and in a remake the two issues I just stated wouldn't even be real issues. Just to post it because it's relevant to this tangental discussion: Lachesis with Beowulf Lachesis: “Beowulf…” Beowulf: “Lachesis, if anything were to happen to me, I want you to go to Lenster. Fin is there with Cuan’s children. Give him a hand, okay?” Lachesis: “How could you say that? When we go, we’ll go together!” Beowulf: “Lachesis, I’ve got a confession to make.” Lachesis: “Hm?” Beowulf: “I’ve known your true feelings all along.” Lachesis: “What…!” Beowulf:“Take good care of yourself. It was mighty nice while it lasted.” Lachesis: “Wait! Beowolf!” That does sound pretty deadbeat if Beo doesn't have a case of "Chapter 5 Badfeelingitis" and is speaking of the Specter of Black coming in a flurry of Red. Maybe just maybe he's just hiding some real good noble reason why he can't stay with her. Or maybe he thinks her true feelings isn't that she truly loves him and hence he's leaving her to free her up ergo she ruined the relationship!. But the first gut impression on a quick read is his love was a sexual passion. If so, Makalov, it turns out you being the vagabond sword knight wasn't exactly original. And this plus the C8 conversation from earlier mentioned, I guess things really didn't come out of nowhere. Well if you get him to max Luck, with the Brave Lance you have a 90% of Miracle activation. And I think in this game it's a dodge not hit survived with 1 HP that happens. So you can proc Miracle multiple times in a row without any healing in between. If you can get Finn's Luck that high, this might be useful on the early turns (when a reset in case that 10% happened wouldn't be so horrendous) on a outdoor map. But this is purely on paper. Not really on paper though. Thats the basis of the Open Fire cheese strats. You put Finn on a chokepoint with Nanna and Leif support. With Miracle he face at best 30-40% death chance And we never talk about Illios Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Finn is the best. Fantastic availability throughout both games, has a personal Brave weapon in FE5 (and is a great user of it in FE4), becomes a Jeigan in Gen 2, interesting character, gets a lot of development and screentime, has a great dynamic with some of the other Best Characters in his games, and is a sexy bitch. What's not to love? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedoom Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Refa said: Finn is the best. Fantastic availability throughout both games, has a personal Brave weapon in FE5 (and is a great user of it in FE4), becomes a Jeigan in Gen 2, interesting character, gets a lot of development and screentime, has a great dynamic with some of the other Best Characters in his games, and is a sexy bitch. What's not to love? Finn is much better in gen 1 compared to most of your units in horse emblem, he has blue hair!!!!!! Don't see any problem with the Finn/Beowulf thing; Beo gets his kid first, runs away, and Finn gets his kid later. Plus Father!Finn convos in Gen 2 are great. He's a better dad than Levin lol. Edited January 18, 2018 by Magnificence Incarnate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flee Fleet! Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 12 hours ago, Magnificence Incarnate said: He's a better dad than Levin lol. Levin's pretty much dead and possessed so he doesn't get much time to be an actual dad anyways. Anyways, uh, I really, really like Fin. He's one of my favorite characters in FE4, and also a really good unit. I like his role in the story and how he's in both Gen1 and Gen2. ...Unfortunately, I don't really have much else to say about him. Like most characters from the pre-FE6 games, Finn suffers from not having too much characterization, so I hope that a FE4 remake fixes this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) To be fair, Finn got a decent amount of characterization by virtue of having a lot of availability and a fair bit of dialogue in two games. Edited January 19, 2018 by Refa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Finn is one of the coolest characters in Fire Emblem hands down, as others have mentioned. I don't really feel the need to expand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetragrammaton Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Why this is pinned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigoasis Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 On 1/27/2018 at 2:31 AM, hanhnn said: Why this is pinned? I have no clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slumber Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 On 1/27/2018 at 1:31 AM, hanhnn said: Why this is pinned? Finn's just that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaxis1 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Slumber said: Finn's just that good. Yes. Yes he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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