Rate the Unit, Day 92: Brave Ephraim & Brave Veronica

[eclipse]

Gunter - He really wants to be on a team with horses.  But he has to compete with Frederick, who fills the same niche and does it better (Gunter only wins in Res, and it's already abysmal).  I think his strongest selling point is that he can go -Spd and not see much of a difference, since most of the game doubles him anyway.  Ah, well, what can you expect out of a free unit?  2/10

Camilla - Her axe is extremely powerful with a team full of Goad buffs.  Assuming a full Goad team, that's +15 to offensive stats to her teammates and +16 for herself.  Ironically, the unit that wants this the most is her Spring version, because a -raven with that much offensive punch behind it will obliterate blue/colorless units.  Her axe severely limits what types of teams she can be on, even if the effect is amazing in terms of theme (her siblings are on horseback).  I think she's a good unit, but she needs a certain type of team, or she falls flat on her face.  6/10

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Please don't pay attention to my ratings. I just do it for myself for fun.
 

Spoiler

Nowi: 8
Amazing tank if she has distance defense skill and seal. Sol / Aether + QR make it hard to kill her.

Tiki: 8
^

Cordelia: 8
Fantastic swordkiller and PP unit with TA and brave Lance. Can ORKO everything with swordbreaker. Only issue is her fragility

Cherche: 7.5
Same as Cordelia with the only difference being an axe user and worse EP unit for being very slow

Nino: 7
Speediest green mage

Chrom: 5
Tanky but slow sworduser. Can work very well with QR.

Frederick: 5
Like Cherche on a horse, but can't get a refined brave axe unfortunately

Kagero: 4
Good PP against infantry, but useless in EP with her abysmal defense and not even high speed

Felicia: 5
Best mage killer besides HSakura; though useless against physical enemies

Eliwood: 4
Great buffer but nothing really else

Saizo: 3
Better than Gaius in combat, but this doesn't say much.

Robin 2.5
Cecilia in blue, but non mounted so can't benefit from mount buffs

Sully: 3
Swordbreaker and reposition are nice

Jakob 2
Renveal and defense are useful skills at least. 

Gunther 2
Hone cavalier saves him.

Camiila 3
Terrible attack. Idk why she has Dragon Aura. She's ok with glacies, but totally outclassed by Cherche.

 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Hecatia Lapislazuli

[Fabulously Olivier]

16 hours ago, Anacybele said:

It's gotta be Kieran too, imo!

How about Duessel?

[XRay]

Been busy lately. I will do just one. Hopefully I have more time over the weekend to overhaul my rating formulas.

I abstain my vote on Camilla

Here is how my criteria are rated:

Spoiler

Mobility:
Armor units are 0/10. Infantry units are 5/10. Cavalry units are 8/10. Flying units are 9/10. Units with unique mobility skills will bump up their score.
Range:
Melee units are 0/10. Distant Counter Weapon melee units are 5/10. Ranged units are 10/10.
Player Phase Raw Performance:
This is based on the W:L:I ratio. Enemies will have a set up of +5, +Spd, Moonbow, and Fury. The unit will be +0, may not use Breakers, and will not have Chills or Ploys activate. Units may have access to buffs (usually, +4 to any two stats for infantry and armors, and 6/6/0/0 or 0/0/6/6 for cavalry and fliers). I would also list the build used to achieve that ratio. I think the following formula is pretty reasonable:
(W%) - (L%*0.25) = Raw Performance
Player Phase Weighted Performance:
Since most units can get a raw performance score of at least 5, setting 5 as 0 for the weighted performance makes more sense in judging how good a unit is.
(Raw Performance - 5) * 2 = Weighted Performance
Player Phase Independence:
This just means how reliant the unit is on buffs. If I take off the buffs and the unit still performs pretty well, they will get a good score. The formula is that same as the raw performance:
(W%) - (L%*0.25) = Independence
Enemy Phase Raw Performance:
See Above.
Enemy Phase Weighted Performance:
See Above.
Enemy Phase Independence:
See Above.
Ease of Use:
This is an average of the mobility and range scores.
Performance:
This consolidates the weighted performance and independence scores into one score, and uses the higher of Player Phase or Enemy Phase. This also means that the build used in weighted performance may not necessarily be their best build, since there may be an alternative build with a slightly worse performance but have much higher independence.
(Weighted Performance * 0.8) + (Raw Performance * 0.1) + (Independence * 0.1) = Performance
Support:
Most units by default will be 0/10. Units with 30+ Res start from 1/10. Dagger units start from 1/10. Healers start from 2/10. Buffers start from 3/10. Fliers start from 4/10. Dancers/Singers start from 5/10. Other unique support skills may further boost their score.
Other:
If the unit has some unique application or fun build, it will be noted here. For example, since Raven mages have a performance penalty, they will get some extra points here for being relevant and viable in certain team compositions.

Familiarity/Experience:
This just means how familiar I am with this particular unit or type of unit in Arena. If it is a low number, that means you should take the following rating number with a grain of salt since I do not have much experience with this particular unit and/or type of unit.
Rating:
The rating is how good I think a unit is. Here is how I weigh each criterion:
Ease of Use 4/10
Performance: 5/10
Support: 1/10
Other: If the unit got some unique application or fun build, they will get a boost to their rating.

Ease of Use 3/10
Performance: 6/10
Support: 1/10
Other: If the unit got some unique application or fun build, they will get a boost to their rating.

Ease of Use 2/10
Performance: 7/10
Support: 1/10
Other: If the unit got some unique application or fun build, they will get a boost to their rating.

Notes:
1. A unit's build in raw performance will not take into account a unit's support build, Raven build, or any other builds. Likewise, a unit's ease of use, support, and other criteria will not take into account the unit's raw performance build.
2. Since healers' Firesweep build [+Atk, Pain [Dazzling Staff], Attack +3, Wrathful Staff, Attack +3] requires the user to do two rounds of combat to measure how good it is, that overwhelmingly skews the combat results for healers, so I decided to tone down their performance by using Brazen Atk/Spd-Desperation and taking away 10 HP or 25% of max HP, which ever is greater.
3. The build used in raw/weighted performance might not be the build with the best score. If there is an alternative build with a slightly less performance but much higher independence, that build will be used instead.
4. Axe and dagger versions of Wo Dao are not available in the regular summoning pool yet, but I think they will be added in the future, so I am using Giant Spoon and Lethal Carrot.

Disclosures:
I have a strong bias for non-armor Player Phase ranged units. My experience with melee and armor units in Arena is pretty minimal, so my rating for them is mostly based on theory. My Arena core consists of BH!Lyn, Reinhardt, and Olivia. I am usually in Tier 20, but I may drop to Tier 19 if I do not fish for points.

Other:

Spoiler

Template

— — — — — — — ◆Red◆ — — — — — — —
— — — — — — — ◾Blue◾ — — — — — — —
— — — — — — — ⬟Green⬟ — — — — — — —
— — — — — — — ●Colorless● — — — — — — —

Mobility: /10
Range: /10
Player Phase Raw Performance: /10 — #:#:#
Player Phase Weighted Performance: /10
Player Phase Independence: /10 — #:#:#
[+Boon, -Bane, Weapon, Special, A, B, Sacred Seal, #/#/#/#]
Enemy Phase Raw Performance: /10 — #:#:#
Enemy Phase Weighted Performance: /10
Enemy Phase Independence: /10 — #:#:#
[+Boon, -Bane, Weapon, Special, A, B, Sacred Seal, #/#/#/#]

Ease of Use: /10
Performance: /10
Support: /10
Other: /10

Familiarity/Experience: /10
Rating: /10

Summary:

_______ got bad/okay/good/stellar combat performance.

She/He can the support the team with Ploys.

She/He can support the team with daggers/Light Breath and Dark Breath.

She/He is a great mobility support unit as a flier.

She/He can also run Firesweep-Hit and Run as a flier unit.

She/He can run a Firesweep-Poison Strike-Poison Strike.

She/He can run Wrathful Staff-Dazzling Staff to emulate Firesweep archers.

She/He can run a Raven set.

— — — — — — — ◆Red◆ — — — — — — —
— — — — — — — ◾Blue◾ — — — — — — —
— — — — — — — ⬟Green⬟ — — — — — — —
— — — — — — — ●Colorless● — — — — — — —

Mobility: /10
Range: /10
Player Phase Raw Performance: /10 — #:#:#
Player Phase Weighted Performance: /10
Player Phase Independence: /10 — #:#:#
[+Boon, -Bane, Weapon, Special, A, B, Sacred Seal, #/#/#/#]
Enemy Phase Raw Performance: /10 — #:#:#
Enemy Phase Weighted Performance: /10
Enemy Phase Independence: /10 — #:#:#
[+Boon, -Bane, Weapon, Special, A, B, Sacred Seal, #/#/#/#]

Ease of Use: /10
Performance: /10
Support: /10
Other: /10

Familiarity/Experience: /10
Rating: /10

Summary:

_______ got bad/okay/good/stellar combat performance.

She/He can the support the team with Ploys.

She/He can support the team with daggers/Light Breath and Dark Breath.

She/He is a great mobility support unit as a flier.

She/He can also run Firesweep-Hit and Run as a flier unit.

She/He can run a Firesweep-Poison Strike-Poison Strike.

She/He can run Wrathful Staff-Dazzling Staff to emulate Firesweep archers.

She/He can run a Raven set.

 

— — — — — — — ⬟Camilla⬟ — — — — — — —

Mobility: 9/10
Range: 0/10
Player Phase Raw Performance: 7.58/10 — 201:34:19
Player Phase Weighted Performance: 5.16/10
Player Phase Independence: 5.33/10 — 143:36:75
[+Spd, -Res, Camilla's Axe [Spd][1 Ally], Moonbow, Life and Death, Desperation, Attack +3, 6/6/0/0]
Enemy Phase Raw Performance: 6.57/10 — 170:12:72
Enemy Phase Weighted Performance: 3.15/10
Enemy Phase Independence: 4.98/10 — 131:18:105
[+Spd, -Res, Camilla's Axe [Spd][1 Ally], Moonbow, Distant Counter, Quick Riposte, Iote's Shield, 6/6/0/0]

Ease of Use: 4.5/10
Performance: 5.42/10
Support: 5/10
Other: 10/10

Familiarity/Experience: 0/10
Rating: 6 - 6 - 6 /10
Rating: 8 - 8 - 8 /10

Summary:

Camilla got good combat performance, although she would be a bit dependent on positioning. She can the support the team with Ploys. She is a great mobility support unit as a flier. She can also run Firesweep-Hit and Run as a flier unit.

[Anacybele]

2 hours ago, Etheus said:

How about Duessel?

He'd probably get hit with the "old man" curse and have meh stats like Jagen and Gunter, unfortunately. But I would like to see Duessel anyway.

[Fabulously Olivier]

10 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

He'd probably get hit with the "old man" curse and have meh stats like Jagen and Gunter, unfortunately. But I would like to see Duessel anyway.

Maybe not. He's a more legendary unit than Jagen and Gunter in universe, given that he's one of Grado's 4 generals. He's also not the designated Jagen of his game (that goes to Seth, despite his great scaling potential).

If not a banner unit, he'd make a strong candidate for a GHB, perhaps alongside a Grado Traitors banner (Natasha, Cormag, and Knoll).

Edited June 1, 2018 by Etheus

[Anacybele]

4 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Maybe not. He's a more legendary unit than Jagen and Gunter in universe, given that he's one of Grado's 4 generals. He's also not the designated Jagen of his game (that goes to Seth, despite his great scaling potential).

If not a banner unit, he'd make a strong candidate for a GHB, perhaps alongside a Grado Traitors banner (Natasha, Cormag, and Knoll).

Yeah, but he's still an old guy, so none of that might matter to IS. And as good as Seth and Titania were in their games, they're not as amazing in Heroes, unfortunately. So...

[Shiki]

Gunter: 3.25
Camilla: 5.69

How the hell did the next round line up like this?

Azama, Carefree Monk

Spoiler

Max. Stats:
40/43/46
18/21/24
23/26/30
29/32/35
22/25/29

Base Skills:

Pain+
Martyr+
Solid-Earth Balm

( - )
( - )
Threaten Atk

Setsuna, Absent Archer

Spoiler

Max. Stats:
34/37/41
24/28/31
34/37/40
19/22/25
20/23/26

Base Stats:

Assassin's Bow+
Reciprocal Aid
( - )

HP+
Bowbreaker
( - )

 

Edited June 9, 2018 by The Priest

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Azama - Best physical bulk of any healer by a wide margin. Magical bulk is also nearly on par with other infantry healers, but the lack of a 30 or higher Res stat hurts his ploy potential. Not that he'll need ploys with his pain set. The availability of Fortress Def and Res skills and seals has helped Azama immensely outside of the healer rework. Plus he's already equipped with his optimal attacking and healing skills for such a low attack stat. Azama's greatest weakness is his low speed. The superboon in speed lets him avoid a few doubles, primarily from dragons, but it seems equally optimal to boost his def and Res stats. 6.5 out of 10 is the highest I'll rate an infantry healer. Every healer can use dazzling pain, and speed is a great substitute for defensive stats if your healer is ever caught in enemy phase, but Azama would be my first choice for this set.

Setsuna - was never sold on her. And who's the genius that decided to hide the Guard Bow on this obscure upgrade path? Regardless, Setsuna is a very poor choice for that weapon compared to archers with great attack and low speed such as Faye or LA!Roy. Setsuna is packing the highest speed of any archer with the one exception of Brave Lyn equipped with her personal weapon. But her low attack makes her performance with a firesweep weapon extremely dubious. I would keep her on that over the brave bow, personally, because seeing 3x4 damage makes me want to gouge my eyes out and Setsuna is woefully unable to take counterattacks from anything you'd encounter in high arena settings. I will say that, unlike other archers, Setsuna is not totally outclassed by other picks. That doesn't suddenly make her a good archer, just nice to not be competing in the Brave Brigade. 3.5 out of 10.

Past Ratings

Spoiler

1. Alfonse - 3
2. Marth - 7
3. Sharena - 3
4. Jagen - 1
5. Anna - 4.5
6. Barst - 3
7. Cain - 4
8. Draug - 7.5
9. Gordin - 5
10. Jeorge - 5.5
11. Abel - 5.5
12. Linde - 9
13. Minerva - Abstain
14. Merric - 3.5
15. Maria - 6
16. Wrys - 3.5
17. Ceada - Abstain
18. Ogma - 4
19. Catria - 4
20. Est - 6
21. Sheena - 6.5
22. Cecilia - 4
23. Clarine - 6.5
24. Matthew - 4
25. Palla - 2.5
26. Roy -7
27. Gwendolyn - 7.5
28. Shanna - 4.5
29. Bartre - 7
30. Fae - 7.5
31. Serra - 4
32. Lissa - 2
33. Tiki - 8
34. Lilina - 7
35. Florina - 1.5
36. M!Robin - 3.5
37. Hector - 8
38. Raven - 8.5
39. Gaius - 4 out of 10
40. Virion - 3.5
41. Raigh - 1.5
42. Sophia - 3.5
43. Sully -2.5
44. Cordelia -7
45. Hawkeye - 5.5
46. Nino - 8
47. Felicia - 6.5
48. Jakob - 1
49. Fir - 4
50. Eliwood - 5.5
51. Donnel - 3.5
52. Nowi - 8.5
53. Frederick - 6.5
54. Cherche - 7.5
55. Saizo - 4
56. Kagero - 4.5
57. Lyn - 7
58. Chrom - 5
59. F!Corrin - 7
60. Azura - 6.5
61. Gunter - 3
62. Camilla - 5.5
63. Azama - 6.5
64. Setsuna - 3.5

Ratings I would change in retrospect: Gordin would be a 2.5, Cain would be a 3. Linde would be 7. Nowi would be an 8. And I'd drop Matthew and Saizo to 3.5.

 

[Xenomata]

Oh boy, I hope someone named Hinoka comes in and leaves a rating of 0/10 Worst retainers ever, because that would be funny.

Azama

Spoiler

He has the potential, you just need to be willing to invest in that potential.

Azama doesn't look very good on paper, admittedly, between having one of the lowest Attack stats in the game, no speed, and what looks like fairly average bulk at best.

However, his default kit is surprisingly effective when paired with the coveted Close Counter skill, letting him ebb down the enemy slowly as they break themselves on him. His pretty good Defense pairs well with the Fortress Defense skill, bringing him up to a pretty good 40 defense, letting him counter both physical units and bows. While his Resistance leaves him vulnerable to mages, unlike other healers, and his speed means anything can double him, he has tools available to him to remain healthy.

Pain+ is how Azama is expected to do damage. While other healers can run Pain+ and expect to do in-combat damage, Azama can be best expected to take hits on enemy phase and chip the enemy down as they attack him. 10 damage can very quickly stack up, after all. Martyr+ helps to keep Azama healthy without having to teach him Recover+ and Live to Serve.

Unfortunately, being a defensive healer is a lot harder to pull off than just being an offensive healer, as other healers can attest to. Limited skill availability and inability to learn offensive specials, or even defensive specials, hurts Azama's ability to deal damage all the more, and he is almost completely unable to run anything other than Pain+ because of how low his attack is (though this does mean you have no reason to teach him Wrathful Staff like other healers would want). Azama is hurt badly by Mages, and his good HP could have afforded to have been lower to accommodate such. His low attack also means he has terrible healing ability, which while not an important point is worth pointing out all the same (we are talking 14 hp per heal with full HP Martyr+ on -Atk). Healer specials don't really help the healer themselves, and Miracle is slow to trigger on Azama especially, running the risk of being dead before he can even get it charged.

Azama is a unit who requires investment and care to be good, and he is certainly able to achieve goodness. You just have to remember his weaknesses and not expect him to be MVP of a given map.

6.5/10 His low attack means he is crap in direct combat, but Azama has very good enemy-phase walling abilities, as well as other healer benefits. He can't wall in every scenario, but he can at least still chip the enemy down with his good default kit.

 

Setsuna

Spoiler

 

Setsuna is a little odd as far as archers go. She is fast... and that's about it. Her Attack is below the average you'd want from speedy units, and her defensive ability does little for her.

Normally a fast archer would want to build on that speed, but Setsuna needs a +Atk nature to be able to do even a little damage, and even still struggles a bit with that. She is the definition of a 0x4 brave unit, but I do not consider that to be the best she can do.

Firesweep Bow is a weapon that speaks directly to Setsuna. It lets her attack freely without worry of being counterattacked, making her bad defenses a moot point, and capitalizes on her Speed and Attack, both of which are good enough to run Firesweep decently well. While she isn't as frightening a Firesweep user as other archers, she is still a great match for the role.

Firesweep Bow unfortunately is weaker than a modern standard bow, meaning she REALLY needs to keep her Attack stat high to do any good damage. Even outside of Firesweep, Setsuna becomes helpless when being attacked, having neither the Defense or Resistance to take many hits before her somewhat weak HP stat runs out.

A point I'd hold against Setsuna is how bad her base kit is. While Bowbreaker is good, she has a useless HP +5 skill, the Assassin Bow, which for a long time didn't even have a use because nobody used daggers, and refining it turned it into the Guard Bow, which is useless on Setsuna with her base stats.

But reloading her kit to be an offensive threat is a good idea. Just don't leave her on the frontlines.

 

7/10 Has the speed to take advantage of a Firesweep set, but none of her other stats are very good, and her attack is average at best. She is still good for picking away at foes without risk of death, but she runs a risk of being killed on enemy phase if she can't secure the kill.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Azama: Aside from surprising physical bulk, he doesn't really stand out much. His resistance is too low to reliably use ploy skills, and his bulk doesn't mean that much when his speed is middle-of-the-road and his attack is the worst in the game. He heals like all healers do but he's definitely not my preferred. 3/10

Setsuna: She has great speed, but that's about it. Her attack is low, and her defense and resistance are both lacking. Her Assassin's Bow is interesting against dagger units but that's it, it otherwise should be replaced. She comes with Bowbreaker so that's something good, at least. 3/10

[Alexmender]

Azama. He's basically the best wall in the healer category, his high Hp, Def and above average Res allow him to tank everything on a defense tile and annoy people to no end. This makes him the prime user of Pain+ and double Savage Blow. Sadly he's a bit of a one trick pony in the sense that walling is all he's capable of, his Atk is abysmal which makes him the worst at healing and his terrible Spd means that everyone will double him making his great bulk not so great anymore. Still, his capabilities of being one of the most annoying units in the game makes him have some worth.

Rating: 4/10

Setsuna. She's extremely fast allowing her to quad units using a Brave Bow with ease. Sadly her low Atk means that her damage will be meager against the more bulky units that plague the arena. It doesn't help that the rest of her stats are mediocre, meaning that she doesn't really have anything outside of quads and dong chip dmg with Firesweep+Poison Strike. 

Rating: 3/10

[LordFrigid]

Azama

• Physically bulky stat line, featuring good HP, decent Def, ok Res, low Spd, and very poor Atk.
  • Poor KO counts on both phases, cannot be counterattacked on the player phase, can take some hits on the EP due to his high bulk.
• Capable of providing heal support (which, depending on how much the user dumped his Atk, might be a little lackluster), status support through his staff, and a basic field/combat buff through his C passive and/or seal slot. He has some Panic Ploy capability through his good HP stat.

Overall, I give him 1 for combat (poor KO matchups, but cannot be attacked on the player phase), and 3 for support (healing, status staff, basic field/combat buff), for a total rating of 2/10.

Setsuna

• Poor stat distribution featuring high Spd, but low values everywhere else.
  • She can run a Brave or Firesweep set on offense, but both have lackluster performance due to her poor Atk. The former is reasonably capable of landing 4 hits, but falls down against physically bulky or fast foes with a half-decent Def stat (in a meta where such foes are common). The latter lacks KO power, but at least cannot be counterattacked.
  • Her defensive stat spread makes her enemy phase matchups poor.
• Cannot provide much team support beyond the basic C passive field/combat buff.

Overall, I give her 4 for combat (mediocre offense matchups, but has some capability), and .5 for support (basic field/combat buff), for a total rating of 4/10.

Hm. On one hand...healers kinda get screwed over by a rating system where ORKO capability is weighted heavily. On the other, idk if I want to have (or draw up) a different rating system just for them.

~

Scoring method:

Spoiler

Units are evaluated based on both their combat performance and their team support capabilities (i.e. their whole contribution to a team).

• Combat performance is judged by matchups, especially against enemies that are at triangle disadvantage or neutral to the unit. Performance against more relevant meta threats is more valuable than performance against units that are rarely seen. Triangle Adept sets are not considered, though they might be noted. Scale of 0 to 10.
  • Sustainability and filling a useful niche are given small bonuses, when applicable.
  • I will look at least one PP-focused and one EP-focused skill set for each unit, but only evaluate based on performance for whichever phase I deem the unit to be stronger on.
• Support capabilities are decided by how much support a unit can provide (without horribly compromising their combat capabilities), and how valuable I feel that support is. Scale of 0 to 3.
• At the end, the combat and support scores will be weighted (with a heavy focus on combat performance), combined, and rounded to the nearest .5 to obtain the total rating. Dancers and Singers will get +1 point to their total rating (not to exceed 10), because I value Dance/Sing utility highly.

This method of evaluation essentially compares each unit to a hypothetical "god unit" who is stellar at everything, instead of each unit to each other.

All my ratings.

[Shiki]

Azama: 4.40
Setsuna: 4.10

Stahl, Viridian Knight

Spoiler

Max. Stats:
42/45/48
28/31/34
23/26/30
26/30/33
19/22/25

Base Skills:

Ruby Sword+
Swap
( - )

Defense+
Obstruct
( - )

Lon'qu, Solitary Blade

Spoiler

Max. Stats:
42/45/48
25/29/32
36/39/42
19/22/25
19/22/25

Base Skills:

Killing Edge+
( - )
Glimmer

Speed+
Vantage
( - )

-----

This is the last round before Green leaves the launch units territory.
In all honesty looking at coming rounds, we're going to many rounds with only Red units towards the end. That seems a bit jaring if we have to rate e.g. Kana the last green unit while we just reach Eirika and Seliph with Red. So I am giving you the option to choose between:
- keeping the current pace and order
- Do the launch units first and then proceed banner-wise (e.g. Sibling Bonds would be divided in Eirika & Seliph, then Ephraim & Julia).

I'm open for both. The only thing that changes is that we're going to have the Red apocalypse first but have more coherent round in terms of release.

Edited June 9, 2018 by The Priest

[Alexmender]

Stahl. He has a semi balanced stat spread with a focus on Hp. Thanks to his default kit he's able to fight against axe units with ease and...that's it. Sthal is completely outclassed by Seth in every area except Hp but it's not like Sthal's Hp is high enough to use Panic Ploy so it ends up being moot. He can work if he's one of your favorites but there's little reasons to use him.

Rating: 3/10

Lon'qu. The first thing one would notice is that Lon'qu has an absurd Spd stat at base 39 and a high Hp at base 45 which makes him almost impossible to double without Swordbreaker or Brash Assault. That's about it though, while Lon'qu is a speed demon he is lacking everywhere else. While he can use a Wo Dao to make up for his lackluster Atk it isn't enough to set him apart from the many other sword units in the game. It doesn't help that Mia is superior to him in every stat except for Hp which isn't that useful outside of using Panic Ploy against mages. If you invest heavily into him he'll do a decent work but if you want an easy to merge myrmidon you could always use Hana or Athena instead.

Rating: 3.5/10

-----

I vote for the second option. It'll be better to rate the bunch of release reds soon instead of going half way through them while we're at the latest green/colorless units. 

[eclipse]

Azama: Well, I missed him. e/log x
Setsuna: Hell of a coincidence IMO. The five hundred twenty-first digit of pi for her.

plz count those ratings

Ahem. . .

Stahl - Tied for lowest attack of horse-mounted swords, third-slowest sword horse, and tied for most HP.  Take Eldigan, and give him a Ruby Sword. . .oh, wait, I'm not being fully honest~!  Even if he's tied for lowest attack of horse-mounted swords, that's still 31 base, at neutral (and he's free, so no -Atk excuses).  His 26 speed is meh, but it's backed up by a Ruby Sword, 30 Def, and 45 HP - in other words, he doesn't care if he's doubled by greens, because he'll survive.  Speed boon and Fury do a lot for him.  It's not that he's a horrible unit, it's that everyone else has something better.  5.5/10

Lon'qu - He's fast.  He has the same HP ans Stahl (WHY).  His 29 base Atk is on the lower end of swordies, and Glimmer doesn't help his case.  While the idea of a mixed-phase speedster is amusing, it doesn't work with 22/22 mitigation.  He becomes a hell of a doubling machine with Life and Death and Firesweep, though. . .but if it's a matter of doubling, then someone with competent attack and a Brave Sword would work just as well.  Interesting concept, but it falls flat on its face, given his stats.  4/10

Edited June 3, 2018 by eclipse

[Silverly]

I apologize for not contributing as of late. I’ve been preoccupied with other things 

Stahl: When you’re powercreeped by Seth who’s a serviceable unit at best, you know you’re the bottom of the barrel. His attack? Merely okay. His speed? He makes Ike look like Ayra. His resistance? Don’t even bother. The only thing going for him is his physical bulk, but honestly when the likes of Sigurd, Eldigan, Ares, and Exalted Chrom exist who provide that and then some, there really isn’t any need to consider Stahl. If you’re unfortunate enough to have none of those, even Seth is a better investment. There is simply no place for our Viridian Knight. 2.5/10

Lon’qu: His former claim to fame was his blazing 39 speed, which is still impressive to day, but he’s aged oh so poorly overall. 29 Attack might have been passable back then but it’s jarringly meh in this era. His defenses are no great shakes either, which makes his fairly bloated HP (a common trend in launch units and those released near then) an utter waste. He pretty much has to rely on specials entirely to operate, which makes his performance inconsistent and risky. He might not be a terrible unit, but you find him to be more trouble than he’s worth to use. 4/10

[Zapp Branniglenn]

stahl - err, I'll say he's the best Slaying Sword user among the sword cavs. Provided we discount all nine of the sword cavs that have their own incredible personal weapons, and there's certainly no contest with Eldigan's. Stahl's not so great. None of his stats are competitively high for his class, just above average physical bulk that matches Sigurd and I think would still be inferior to Xander if Xander had his max merge level. I personally find Stahl more impressive than Seth, but that's a low bar and cavs don't make good tanks anyway. He can go up a BST tier with a superboon in speed. You're already taking a hit to your arena score when your sword cav pick is one of very few that don't have a personal weapon but I suppose that'd improve some green matchups as he tries to catch up. 2.5 out of 10. Basically Hinata with a cav's BST, it doesn't work.

Lonqu - once the fastest unit in the game, now the second tying with Legendary Ryoma. Lon'qu's got enough problems waiting for his Prf unemployment check, and what's he gonna do with that HP anyway? Lonqu's stats are similar to Lyn's in practice. But when Lyn gets going, she's packing a 16 MT brave sword and Def Ploy. Talk about un-Ferox. 3 out of 10.

Past ratings 

Spoiler

1. Alfonse - 3
2. Marth - 7
3. Sharena - 3
4. Jagen - 1
5. Anna - 4.5
6. Barst - 3
7. Cain - 4
8. Draug - 7.5
9. Gordin - 5
10. Jeorge - 5.5
11. Abel - 5.5
12. Linde - 9
13. Minerva - Abstain
14. Merric - 3.5
15. Maria - 6
16. Wrys - 3.5
17. Ceada - Abstain
18. Ogma - 4
19. Catria - 4
20. Est - 6
21. Sheena - 6.5
22. Cecilia - 4
23. Clarine - 6.5
24. Matthew - 4
25. Palla - 2.5
26. Roy -7
27. Gwendolyn - 7.5
28. Shanna - 4.5
29. Bartre - 7
30. Fae - 7.5
31. Serra - 4
32. Lissa - 2
33. Tiki - 8
34. Lilina - 7
35. Florina - 1.5
36. M!Robin - 3.5
37. Hector - 8
38. Raven - 8.5
39. Gaius - 4 out of 10
40. Virion - 3.5
41. Raigh - 1.5
42. Sophia - 3.5
43. Sully -2.5
44. Cordelia -7
45. Hawkeye - 5.5
46. Nino - 8
47. Felicia - 6.5
48. Jakob - 1
49. Fir - 4
50. Eliwood - 5.5
51. Donnel - 3.5
52. Nowi - 8.5
53. Frederick - 6.5
54. Cherche - 7.5
55. Saizo - 4
56. Kagero - 4.5
57. Lyn - 7
58. Chrom - 5
59. F!Corrin - 7
60. Azura - 6.5
61. Gunter - 3
62. Camilla - 5.5
63. Azama - 6.5
64. Setsuna - 3.5
65. Stahl - 2.5
66. Lonqu - 3

Ratings I would change in retrospect: Gordin would be a 2.5, Cain would be a 3. Linde would be 7. Nowi would be an 8. And I'd drop Matthew and Saizo to 3.5.

 

[LordFrigid]

Stahl

• Physically bulky stat line featuring good HP, decent Def, mediocre Atk, and low Spd and Res.
  • His offense matchups are hindered by his low Spd. He has some capability with an Atk-stacking Brave Sword, but this fails to have a significant impact against many bulky meta threats.
  • Strong green, mediocre red matchups with a Slaying Edge set on defense. He will take a lot of damage from, and quite possibly be KO'd by, mages and dragons. He can use the Safeguard+ with Close Def, which sacrifices some KO power but will hard-wall most axes and takes low damage from many swords.
• As a cavalry unit, he can run a cavalry field or combat buff in his C passive slot. He has some Panic Ploy capability with his good HP.

Overall, I give him 5.5 for combat (strong green, mediocre red matchups on defense), and 1.5 for support (cavalry field/combat buff, Panic Ploy capability), for a total rating of 5.5/10.

Lon'qu

• Features a stat line with very high Spd and good HP, but low Atk and defenses.
  • Strong green, ok red matchups for one round with a Wo Dao kit on offense. He can also use Firesweep Sword/Swordbreaker for lower KOs but more sustainable performance. Has trouble against physically bulky foes due to his low Atk stat.
  • Poor defensive matchups due to his low Def and Res.
• He has some Panic Ploy capability with his good HP.

Overall, I give him 5 for combat (strong green, mediocre red matchups on offense), and 1 for support (basic field/combat buff, some Panic Ploy capability), for a total rating of 5/10.

~

Scoring method:

Spoiler

Units are evaluated based on both their combat performance and their team support capabilities (i.e. their whole contribution to a team).

• Combat performance is judged by matchups, especially against enemies that are at triangle disadvantage or neutral to the unit. Performance against more relevant meta threats is more valuable than performance against units that are rarely seen. Triangle Adept sets are not considered, though they might be noted. Scale of 0 to 10.
  • Sustainability and filling a useful niche are given small bonuses, when applicable.
  • I will look at least one PP-focused and one EP-focused skill set for each unit, but only evaluate based on performance for whichever phase I deem the unit to be stronger on.
• Support capabilities are decided by how much support a unit can provide (without horribly compromising their combat capabilities), and how valuable I feel that support is. Scale of 0 to 3.
• At the end, the combat and support scores will be weighted (with a heavy focus on combat performance), combined, and rounded to the nearest .5 to obtain the total rating. Dancers and Singers will get +1 point to their total rating (not to exceed 10), because I value Dance/Sing utility highly.

This method of evaluation essentially compares each unit to a hypothetical "god unit" who is stellar at everything, instead of each unit to each other.

All my ratings.

[Frosty]

Stahl

His statline at neutral screams Jack of all Trades with a defensive inclination; except for SPD which is mediocre but with a superboon. Innate Ruby Sword means Greens hate him and Blues will kill him easy if they sneeze on him. Despite of his middling statline; he's still a Cavalry unit and can benefit from them.

As said by the poster above me; he will benefit the most from a Slaying Edge+ with a DEF forge or Safeguard+ with DEF forge if you want total facetanking, but I prefer mine with Brazen ATK/DEF 3 for a bit more punch. Pair that with Swordbreaker 3 + Quick Riposte 3 seal or Close DEF 3 seal and he'll be okay since that means he can now even facetank the faster sword units. Your pick though; QR3 seal allows him to even take on faster green units or CD3 seal will make non-blue or non-magic hits feel like tickles.

Because I'm having fun with the one I'm building right now, I'd give him a...

7.0

Lon'qu

Lon'qu is the fastest male unit in the game during launch with a crazy speed base of 39. Although he has a middling 29 base ATK and meh defensive stats with 22 DEF and RES despite of sporting a high 45 HP at neutral.

As of now, the best set for him is a Firesweep Sword+ with LaD/Swift Sparrow and Swordbreaker because he wants to double everything on sight and KO stuff; and avoid getting killed. He'll fail to kill things with Glimmer so you'll need to replace that with Luna.

High HP pool means he can utilize Panic Ploy so he can mess up Bladetome units; but still... don't make him tank those things!

While outclassed by other swords, I think he's still usable with the right set.

My rating for him is...

5.5

Edited June 3, 2018 by Frosty

[Xenomata]

Stahl

Spoiler

Not really a unit I expect people to jump towards when they think "Sword Cavalry". Stahl, in Awakening, at least had some form of balance going on in his growths and stat caps, which would have been fine in Awakening, but here he barely comes to par in comparison to other Sword Cavs. Notably, Eldigan and Ares both have stats better than Stahl and worse in the right places.

Stahl does have a small level of merit though: he comes by default with the Ruby Sword, making him an easy promote if you just need someone to tank hits from pesky axes. He can also keep the axes away from the rest of the army via Obstruct, which shouldn't even deserve mention, but it's not really like you have much reason to invest THAT strongly in Stahl.

Overall, lackluster, but he does at least have some merit to keep around... kinda. He is the completely average Cavalier from Awakening, and it reflects.

Rating: 5/10 In a competition between the Sword Cavs in the game, Stahl does not have a strong standing. His default weapon gives him good reason to keep around, but he otherwise has no reason to be taken seriously.

 

Lon'qu

Spoiler

Right off the bat, it should be said that Lon'qu is among the fastest of the Infantry Swords in the game, which is saying something for a unit who's been in the game since launch. He may not be the strongest, but he can easily hit the 50 speed benchmark that makes up for that.

His defensive ability is, more or less, expected of a fast unit. He does, however, have a pretty high HP stat, so he can take at least one hit and live, so long as the enemy isn't Blue, as well as provide Infantry Pulse or Panic Ploy support. While his default kit isn't anything to write home about (Vantage doesn't do much for you if you don't have the attack to kill in one hit), he can still take advantage of the upgrade to Slaying Edge+ from his default Killing Edge to pull off a Special every round of combat, or go for a Wo Dao and patch his lower attack with mighty special triggers.

So while Lon'qu isn't the greatest unit by todays standards, and has harsh competition from other Infantry Swords, he still has a place among the Infantry Swords of today.

6/10 He faces exemplary competition from other sword units in general, but Lon'qu has a good Speed stat and a pretty high HP stat that lets him pull off some combinations that other Swords have some trouble with, or at least can't pull off at the same time. From a strict direct-combat situation though... Lon'qu at least is easier to summon?

[Fire Emblem Fan]

7 hours ago, eclipse said:

Stahl - Tied for lowest attack of horse-mounted swords, third-slowest sword horse, and tied for most HP.  Take Eldigan, and give him a Ruby Sword. . .oh, wait, I'm not being fully honest~!  Even if he's tied for lowest attack of horse-mounted swords, that's still 31 base, at neutral (and he's free, so no -Atk excuses).  His 26 speed is meh, but it's backed up by a Ruby Sword, 30 Def, and 45 HP - in other words, he doesn't care if he's doubled by greens, because he'll survive.  Speed boon and Fury do a lot for him.  It's not that he's a horrible unit, it's that everyone else has something better.  5.5/10

Lon'qu - He's fast.  He has the same HP ans Stahl (WHY).  His 29 base Atk is on the lower end of swordies, and Glimmer doesn't help his case.  While the idea of a mixed-phase speedster is amusing, it doesn't work with 22/22 mitigation.  He becomes a hell of a doubling machine with Life and Death and Firesweep, though. . .but if it's a matter of doubling, then someone with competent attack and a Brave Sword would work just as well.  Interesting concept, but it falls flat on its face, given his stats.  4/10

These are also my thoughts on Stahl and Lon'qu, I'd keep Lon'qu at a 4 and I'd move Stahl down to a 5.

[Ae†her]

Stahl

He's in a very strange position. He's for the most part basically like a more HP version of Seth, but with much less, and can only build Spd with a Spd boon. He's a cavalry unit as well so he can't take advantage of any Breath skills nor Wrath in exchange for cavalry buffs, which are not as useful for him. He's very mediocre stat wise, and although he is free and you can easily merge him it doesn't mean you should do it. - 5/10 for Combat - 95%

His default skills are not the best for him, but they help him. As for Skill Inheritance, he's a common unit who comes with Swap, which is like a must-have skill for armored units so that's very good. Plus Defense +3 which is good for like PvE Maps and stuff. 7/10 for Skill Inheritance - 5%

5/10

Lon'qu

Most will say he is outshined by other newer swordsmen, and that's 100% true except for the fact that he's still got some of the highest natural Spd stat in the game. He's just behind Mia, the fastest unit in the game. Despite his attack being shit you can either give it a boon because Lon'qu is still really fast or you can just not care and use Wrath 3 or Wo Dao+. He has high HP to make use of a Vengeance + Slaying Edge+ + Wrath 3 set. His Spd really just lets him shine, and he can prevent doubles from other units on him so he's a very superb unit combat wise. Definition of a Speedster almost. - 7/10 for Combat 

For Skill Inheritance he's basically the Vantage Plus and Killing Edge for Slaying Edge plug. His skills for him aren't that great though, minus the Killing Edge+ of course. 8/10

7/10

 

[Simpsons138]

For the vote, keep it as it is for now, there's still a lot of launch units out there, as for the reviews:

• Stahl: What he has to offer is mostly his high HP, which is tied with Eldigan as the highest stat among sword cavaliers, but that's just about it, he has the lowest attack stat along with Eliwood, his speed is bad that he will be doubled by a lot of units, while his defense is high, his resistance is very much the opposite, his set also has Def+3 and Obstruct, which while they are good in their own right, it's very niche to use, Ruby Sword is the only thing going for him, taking hits against green units like a boss, only not doing so well against blues, so, unless he's invested on heavingly, he's not going to do much outside of taking down greens, he gets a 4/10

 

• Lon'qu: Boasting one of the highest speed stats among sword units, tying for the second highest speed with Supreme Ryoma, he's able to outspeed many different foes, his HP is also pretty decent as well, being able to use Panic Ploy and any of the Boost skills with ease, comes with Speed+3 and the thing with Lon'qu is triggering Vantage, being one of the few units that comes with it, allowing him to attack first and trigger his special quickly if he already has it, unfortunately a lot of invesment will need to be given to him, namely evolving his Killing Edge+ to Slaying Edge+ or giving him Wo Dao+ and a different special other than Glimmer since his attack stat is among one of the lowest among swords, he can't take many hits either, his defense and resistance will not allow him to take many hits, even from other green units, still, as the OG fast unit out there, he's pretty good use if invested on, easy to get and sorta easy to invest on, 5/10

[Shiki]

On 2.6.2018 at 11:36 PM, eclipse said:

plz count those ratings

Unfortunately e/log(X) = e/log(10) = 2.718 or something which is not a .5 decimal.
Also you gave Setsuna an 8. Bias much? Mod not following the rules, step down pls.

On 3.6.2018 at 6:49 PM, Simpsons138 said:

For the vote, keep it as it is for now, there's still a lot of launch units out there

The point is that we're going to do new units with Red after almost every other color runs out (Green will run out first, then Colorless pretty much right after).

Stahl: 4.5
Lon'qu: 4.75

... how did Stahl get a higher score than Cain?

Hinoka, Warrior Princess

Spoiler

Max. Stats:
37/41/44
32/35/38
29/32/35
22/25/29
21/24/27

Base Skills:

Brave Lance+
( - )
Blazing Wind

Defiant Def
( - )
Hone Fliers

Oboro, Fierce Fighter

Spoiler

Max. Stats:
36/40/43
29/32/35
23/26/30
32/35/38
21/24/28

Base Skills:

Heavy Spear+
Rally Def
( - )

( - )
Seal Def
Threaten Res

 

Edited June 13, 2018 by The Priest