Simpsons138 Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Here's what they are for these two Hoshidan Siblings: Takumi: Has the offensive spread to be a huge threat to any unprepared, Threaten Speed to increase his chances of doubling and preventing follow ups, the selling point of Takumi is Close Counter, which allows him to counter any physical unit that attacks him, and Vengeance is a good skill if he triggers it, Fujin Yumi is very underwhelming, Pass 2 is very useless on him, you'd best refine it as it will instead allow him to walk through forests and warp to allies within 2 spaces so long as he has 50% HP, he's a very dangerous unit, but he has fallen from grace due to SI and other powercreep, his resistance is bad as he can be taken out by a lot of mages if they can one-shot him, especially Raven tomes that have advantage over him, as mentioned, Fujin Yumi is very underwhelming and should mostly be refined if you're going to use Takumi, even then, he can't take physical hits either, he's powerful, though there are other powerful archers around since then, gets a 6/10 Sakura: There's not much to say since she's a healer, but let's see, high resistance stat, decent speed but very low attack, defense and HP so she won't be taking that many physical hits, comes with Fear+ to sort of mitigate the damage, Physic+ to heal adjacent allies, healing 20 HP at a neutral atk IV, Still Water Balm and Fortify Def to help support allies by boosting their defenses, but that's about it, she's mostly for support like a few other healers, Wrazzle-Dazzle if needed for her, but if invested completely, she will be a good unit, just not so much offensively, 5/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordFrigid Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Takumi Offense-focused stat line featuring middling Atk and Spd, mediocre Def, and low Res. Fujin Yumi (built-in Pass 2) is basically a glorified Silver Bow. With a refinement (no terrain movement penalties), it becomes situational at best. With the effect refinement (Allows him to warp to any ally within 2 spaces at 50% or more HP), it becomes a passable mobility tool, but is still not on par with a combat-bolstering weapon, though it does make Bond skills more usable on the Player Phase. Fairly capable with a Brave or Firesweep set, but struggles to KO foes with even a decent Def stat. He can actually make use of the Fujin Yumi (Eff)'s warp utility with Atk/Spd Bond 3, but he requires additional field or combat buff support to pull it off properly. Mediocre defensive capabilities with his low defenses. He cannot provide much support to his team beyond the standard C passive field or combat buff. Overall, I give him 6 for combat (decent KO counts, but struggles against bulkier meta threats), and .5 for support (basic field/combat buff), for a total rating of 5.5/10. Sakura Fairly balanced stat line with decent Res, mediocre Spd and Def, and low Atk. Minimal KO capability on the Player Phase, but at least cannot be counterattacked. Poor matchups on the Enemy Phase, but has some magical bulk to take hits from tomes. She can provide heal and status staff support to her teammates. She also has some ploy capability with her decent Res stat. She can also carry a basic field/combat buff in her C or Seal slot. Overall, I give her 2 for combat (poor matchups on the Player Phase, but cannot be counterattacked), and 3 for support (healing, status, ploys, and basic field/combat buff), for a total rating of 3/10. ~ Scoring method: Spoiler Units are evaluated based on both their combat performance and their team support capabilities (i.e. their whole contribution to a team). Combat performance is judged by matchups, especially against enemies that are at triangle disadvantage or neutral to the unit. Performance against more relevant meta threats is more valuable than performance against units that are rarely seen. Triangle Adept sets are not considered, though they might be noted. Scale of 0 to 10. Sustainability and filling a useful niche are given small bonuses, when applicable. I will look at least one PP-focused and one EP-focused skill set for each unit, but only evaluate based on performance for whichever phase I deem the unit to be stronger on. Support capabilities are decided by how much support a unit can provide (without horribly compromising their combat capabilities), and how valuable I feel that support is. Scale of 0 to 3. At the end, the combat and support scores will be weighted (with a heavy focus on combat performance), combined, and rounded to the nearest .5 to obtain the total rating. Dancers and Singers will get +1 point to their total rating (not to exceed 10), because I value Dance/Sing utility highly. This method of evaluation essentially compares each unit to a hypothetical "god unit" who is stellar at everything, instead of each unit to each other. All my ratings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Takumi - Used to be the gold standard of "archer that will ruin your day". Then the Fujin Yumi was shafted, and a narcissist, some guy in a Halloween costume, and a woman with a bow and a bridal gown ruined his day. Add a couple of horse-mounted archers, and his niche has been more-or-less overtaken. But he's not completely without use! His HP is on the higher end of archers, and a defense boon gives a bit more than normal. Since he'll happily swap his native weapon out, and he comes with Close Counter, he can work with a really silly Guard Bow build (source: mine). He can run the traditional offensive builds and do decently enough (especially if he's +Spd or +Atk), but at this point he's sadly outclassed (Innes and Lyn outright do it better, and Leon hits harder). 7/10 Sakura - Take Serra, and make her stats a little more well-rounded, and that's Sakura. Her middling Atk means she can go -Atk, Fear is useful for its status (as opposed to its damage), and Physic means she can heal without having to expose herself to danger. Thanks to more HP/Def than Serra, Sakura can take some flak after Fear hits. +Res can run Speed Ploy and really hamper an enemy's offense for a turn, should it land. Maybe. But if your healer is absorbing hits, then what is the rest of your team doing? 4.5/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 (edited) Takumi Best described as the powercreeped archer who used to be the king of archers until the likes of Bridelia, B!Lyn, Halloween Jakob, V!Roy, Innes and Leon came. 33/32 offensive spread at neutral isn't bad; but there are better choices. While Close Counter looks nice; I'd say he works better with Fury/Life and Death with Desperation; and preferably with either Slaying Bow+/Firesweep Bow+ or a +SPD forged Fujin Yumi (if you're running on a budget). Threaten SPD 3 is good to prevent doubles and to make him get doubles. Sadly his defenses are kinda "eh" and his RES is awful as heck. While there are better archers out there; if you don't have any of them then consider investing in Takumi especially that some are seasonals or locked behind 5* rarity (that means his only direct competition for most players is Leon). While powercreeped; he's still okay if you are lacking in choices for an archer. 7.0 Note: Takumi's rating is based on the fact that most players can now obtain him as a free unit if they start out playing FEH. Sakura She has a somewhat similar stat spread to Serra but with more magical bulk and less punch and speed. She has a decent kit for support; Fear for debuffs and Physic so she can heal at a distance. The good parts end there because Sakura's well-rounded stats means while she can take on any role that's meant for a healer; she isn't going to be as remarkable as the more min-maxed ones such as Elise or Lucius for offense, or Azama when it comes to tanking. Best set for her is either debuffing with Fear+ or... go crazy with Dazzling Pain+ with Savage blow. 4.5 Edited June 6, 2018 by Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenomata Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Takumi Spoiler First off, Fujin Yumi is a fun weapon, but that's it. It has no real applicable combat use, so by refining it you just make Takumi more mobile... in certain maps. It may as well be a Silver Bow+ for combat purposes. As such, Takumi has to be judged by his stats, which for an archer are very average. Both his Attack and Speed could be better, but are at least usable compared to a few other units that have been available since release. His Defense is certainly higher than some other archers, but it and his crummy Resistance are not worth trying to fix. What Takumi comes down to is how he does when given a different bow, most notably the Brave Bow+. While he has higher Atk than the two units who have it by default, it's only by one point, and both are more readily available than Takumi (assuming you want to have Takumi with a +Atk nature). His default kit could be better, but he is currently the only permanent summoning pool unit to have the Close Counter skill, making him a dangerous unit to leave around fliers when he enters Vantage range. I think that's a pretty nifty niche he can have ready as soon as you summon him/promote his free variant, given the lower defensive ability of most fliers. Overall, Takumi is outdone by archers new and old, and while he still has a place in the game, that place is usually better reserved for other units. He has that nice benefit of Close Counter, but that just means some units will have a nice Pineapple Taco when the time comes. Rating: 6/10 Between having a statline considered average for his unit type and a personal weapon that doesn't actually do anything for his combat ability, Takumi is more a novel unit to have than before. Sakura Spoiler Like her brother, Sakura is very average as far as her unit type goes. Below-average attack, below-average speed, and average Resistance on top of average HP and low defense makes for a very average healer. I feel her use comes largely from Physic+, coming off 40 Atk if keeping Fear+ means she can heal a solid amount of HP on most units, where 20 HP could easily be more than half their total HP, from a safe distance, meaning she won't have to worry about being ambushed because she had to stand next to a unit to heal them. Trying to use her offensively feels a waste, as her Attack isn't all that good without a +Atk nature, and her Speed means she can't double most enemies like other healers can. She is able to lower the Attack of enemies with Fear+, so working off that can be considered advantageous. Giving her Candlelight+ can also be a boon, as it means she serves a supportive role by disabling enemy counterattacks rather than just lowering their counterattacks power, though it is a rare weapon. Overall, Sakura is average among healers. Not really good enough to be a desired pull, but not bad enough to abandon. Use her if you need another healer, but don't expect the results gotten from other healers like Lucius or Elise. Rating: 5/10 Average as far as healers go. Letting her stick to being supportive over being offensive is a nice idea, and she can certainly try to pull off the offensive sets that other healers do, but she shouldn't be your first pick for an offensive nuke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiki Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 (edited) Ok, just saying it for now but technical issues will probably continue past the weekend. @Fire Emblem Fan The votes for the poll. I see 2 people who didn't participate at all and gave their vote. Anyway according to the poll we are going to do launch units first. Yorokobe. That means we're going to skip Greens for now and continue until we are done with the rest. Takumi: 6.06 Sakura: 4.11 Olivia, Blushing Beauty Spoiler Max. Stats: 33/36/40 24/28/31 30/33/36 23/27/30 22/26/29 Base Skills: Silver Sword+ Dance ( - ) ( - ) Knock Back Hone Atk Henry, Twisted Mind Spoiler Max. Stats: 42/45/48 20/23/26 19/22/25 29/32/35 22/25/29 Base Skills: Rauórraven+ ( - ) Ignis Defiant Def Green Tomebreaker ( - ) Edited June 9, 2018 by The Priest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Olivia - The dancer everyone has (and IMO neutral his her best nature), and until recently, the only red dancer. She's not that great at being an offensive unit, or a defensive one, but thankfully, she doesn't need to be. All she needs to do is survive, and dance. While just about every other dancer has something better to offer, Olivia will be there for you. 8.5/10 because dancing utility is That Good. Henry - One of four mages to have the distinct honor of having a higher defense stat than magic (the other three being Odin, Merric, and Boey). Speed is his dump stat, and his Res isn't particularly impressive for a mage. He comes with a -raven, and he can put it to some use. . .mostly because physical colorless units will bounce off of him. If he can be doubled, and take no damage, he'll be able to charge Ignis all the faster. Thanks to his awful base Atk, his tome is usually given to someone who can deal damage (like Sophia). Lyon also makes him look silly, too. I have no idea what the developer were thinking when they made Henry. 2.5/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexmender Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Olivia. The f2p dancer by excellency, she sports a balanced spread across the board with a slight emphasis on Spd. Her combat prowress isn't very high compared to all the other swords but she makes up for it with her utility. As always, being a dancer is both a blessing and a curse depending on how far you wish to go in Arena due to her low BST but outside of that she'll always be extremely helpful for any kind of team. Rating: 8/10 Henry. He has a focus on Def and Hp while being terrible everywhere else. His high Def lets him tank a lot of physical green units and unleash a powerful Ignis to retaliate but that's about it. His magical bulk isn't that good, Sophia is the better tank thanks to her higher Res and having an actual Atk stat to not be a sitting duck while her special charges. His only utility skill is Panic Ploy which can be nice but is a bit situational due to AI manipulation. He is a one trick pony but his trick can be done better by other units leaving him in the dust. Rating: 2/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Branniglenn Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Olivia - Among dancers, 33 speed is perfectly average. Only one of them (shigure) has less than that value while few others have more. But one of those dancers that has more is Lene, and that's who really overshadows Olivia. Olivia's major claim to fame then is having the highest physical bulk of dancers, tying with Ninian who possesses more health. Another advantage to Olivia is having 150 BST without needing to take some gross HP superboon. Only New Years Azura can also make that claim. Olivia wants Lene's Safeguard sword in order to capitalize on her potential to survive the frontline. It's a superior choice to the ruby sword since it will improve poor matchups and also allows for further stat boosting and arena scoring via the weapon refinery. Just don't forget to boost her speed so that she avoids doubles. I really think Olivia got a good tool in the form of Safeguard. And the point of HP and 4 points of def she has over Lene could reasonably make up for the lacking two points of speed. 7 out of 10. If this were a rating system that valued mergeability at all I'd rate her as the best dancer but alas. I think all of my Dancer ratings will be between 6 and 7.5. Henry - Lowest attack stat of his class and one of the lowest in the game. Still possessing the highest HP of any red tome, even more than Winter Tharja whom has powercreeped all of the launch red tomes. It's unfortunate then that the raven tomes cannot be refined or his HP would be quite high for infantry pulse and Panic Ploy. Henry's physical bulk makes him a competent close counter owl user. But the problem of his low attack and speed remains. A CC QR counterattack may fail to defeat who ever's attacking him. Owl tome can only boost his speed up to 6 points and it's presumed you'll take the speed bane. So He'll avoid few doubles and quads at about 25 speed. There are better ways of taking on infantry and certainly better red tome users. 2 out of 10. Interesting, but not viable. Use the Normal Girl. Past Ratings Spoiler Alfonse - 3 Marth - 7 Sharena - 3 Jagen - 1 Anna - 4.5 Barst - 3 Cain - 4 Draug - 7.5 Gordin - 5 Jeorge - 5.5 Abel - 5.5 Linde - 9 Minerva - Abstain Merric - 3.5 Maria - 6 Wrys - 3.5 Ceada - Abstain Ogma - 4 Catria - 4 Est - 6 Sheena - 6.5 Cecilia - 4 Clarine - 6.5 Matthew - 4 Palla - 2.5 Roy -7 Gwendolyn - 7.5 Shanna - 4.5 Bartre - 7 Fae - 7.5 Serra - 4 Lissa - 2 Tiki - 8 Lilina - 7 Florina - 1.5 M!Robin - 3.5 Hector - 8 Raven - 8.5 Gaius - 4 out of 10 Virion - 3.5 Raigh - 1.5 Sophia - 3.5 Sully -2.5 Cordelia -7 Hawkeye - 5.5 Nino - 8 Felicia - 6.5 Jakob - 1 Fir - 4 Eliwood - 5.5 Donnel - 3.5 Nowi - 8.5 Frederick - 6.5 Cherche - 7.5 Saizo - 4 Kagero - 4.5 Lyn - 7 Chrom - 5 F!Corrin - 7 Azura - 6.5 Gunter - 3 Camilla - 5.5 Azama - 6.5 Setsuna - 3.5 Stahl - 2.5 Lonqu - 3 Hinoka - 7.5 Oboro - 2.5 Beruka - 6 Arthur - 2 Takumi - 5.5 Sakura - 3 Olivia - 7 Henry - 2 Ratings I would change in retrospect: Gordin would be a 2.5, Cain would be a 3. Linde would be 7. Nowi would be an 8. And I'd drop Matthew and Saizo to 3.5. Beruka would be a 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simpsons138 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Two interesting units, here's the info: Olivia: Complete opposite of Azura, while the latter is mostly an offensive support, Olivia is mostly for support, she's not going to battle much as she's a dancer, she does have a balanced bulk so she can take a few hits before going down, but why would you use her to take hits? She also has a decent speed stat and with the ability to dance and Hone Attack, couple with the fact that she's F2P as well and you've got a good unit out there, her offensive work is pretty middling unless she has either Ruby Sword or Triangle Adept to take care of other greens, Knock Back is only situational at best, but there are better skills out there, especially when a certain bull can give her wings, so she's a good unit to have for support and she's there to dance in the danger, wen Olivia's Blade? 8/10 Henry: Among red mages, he has the highest HP stat out there, allowing him to abuse of Panic Ploy and Boost Skills that can help him a little there, he also sports the second highest defense among red mages with W!Tharja having the highest defensive spread among them, Green Tomebreaker, Rauðrraven and Ignis are there to take care of both Green Mages and any colorless unit, you've got the skills to make an OP unit, if not for the fact that he ties for the third lowest attack in the game, poor speed and an average resistance stat, he may have been a top tier unit, but unfortunately he's not, and he's mostly either Green Tomebreaker or Rauðrraven fodder nowadays, Defiant Defense is also useless on him as well, only build him if you like him, but not even heavy investment will help him out, even Sophia, who has a lower speed than him, can do the job of taking magical hits better than him, he gets a 3/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordFrigid Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 5 hours ago, The Priest said: Anyway according to the poll we are going to do launch units first. Yorokobe. That means we're going to skip Greens for now and continue until we are done with the rest. Bleh. So...release date first, then break ties with color (red→blue→green→colorless), then break ties with the catalog of heroes order? Olivia Balanced stat line featuring middling Spd, mediocre defenses, and low Atk. She's probably best off using a Ruby Sword kit to focus on checking greens on the EP and using the PP to provide Dance support for her allies. She does have some capability with a Wo Dao set, with decent green matchups and mediocre red matchups. She is capable of providing Dance support to her allies. She can also provide basic field/combat buff support through her C and Seal slots, and additional refresher-based buff support through her B passive. Overall, I give her 5.5 for combat (decent green, mediocre red matchups with a general-purpose defense set), 3 for support (dance, potential for field/combat buff support through B, C, and Seal slots), and +1 bonus point for Dance utility, for a total rating of 7/10. It feels a little weird giving a dancer a 7, but I guess that's actually pretty high for my system, where the extremes are hard to come by. Henry Physically bulky stat line featuring good HP, decent Def, mediocre Res, and poor Atk and Spd. Poor player phase presence with low values in both offensive stats. Strong green, mediocre red matchups on the enemy phase with a Rauðrowl+/Close Counter/Guard/QR set (matchups run with +4/0/4/0 combat buffs and 2 -owl stacks against foes with +3/3/3/3 field buffs). Obviously, his performance will jump with higher investment levels. Hindered by Guard, as he relies on a Bonfire activation for one-round performance. He can provide Panic Ploy support with his good HP stat. Overall, I give him 6 for combat (strong green, mediocre red matchups), and 1 for support (basic field/combat buff, Panic Ploy capability), for a total rating of 5.5/10 (barely misses that round-up cutoff). I...was not expecting that going in. Turns out his Spd is garbage enough to reliably get a 1-round Bonfire (even with the +4 from Rauðrowl's adjacency bonus), and his high Def gives it quite a punch (+4 combat buff, sure). I'm actually quite satisfied with where he landed; slightly above Raigh (whose higher but not good Spd, and lower Def make his performance somewhat worse), and cleanly below Sophia (10 more Atk really takes you places). ~ Scoring method: Spoiler Units are evaluated based on both their combat performance and their team support capabilities (i.e. their whole contribution to a team). Combat performance is judged by matchups, especially against enemies that are at triangle disadvantage or neutral to the unit. Performance against more relevant meta threats is more valuable than performance against units that are rarely seen. Triangle Adept sets are not considered, though they might be noted. Scale of 0 to 10. Sustainability and filling a useful niche are given small bonuses, when applicable. I will look at least one PP-focused and one EP-focused skill set for each unit, but only evaluate based on performance for whichever phase I deem the unit to be stronger on. Support capabilities are decided by how much support a unit can provide (without horribly compromising their combat capabilities), and how valuable I feel that support is. Scale of 0 to 3. At the end, the combat and support scores will be weighted (with a heavy focus on combat performance), combined, and rounded to the nearest .5 to obtain the total rating. Dancers and Singers will get +1 point to their total rating (not to exceed 10), because I value Dance/Sing utility highly. This method of evaluation essentially compares each unit to a hypothetical "god unit" who is stellar at everything, instead of each unit to each other. All my ratings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenomata Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Olivia Spoiler I'd like to think of Olivia as the middleground for what to expect from a Dancer, statwise anyways, and so far other dancers haven't been that astray of where Olivia stands. Below-average Attack, not great but not unusable defenses either (except HP), and Speed that helps her avoid being doubled. Olivia can be useful in combat, but it's gonna be a little expensive, esepecially now that getting a lucky 5* Seth pull isn't possible anymore. Since dancers usually just want to dance and not enter combat thanks to their lower BSTs, they usually want to be using some form of a Triangle Adept set, whether it be a Gem weapon or the skill Triangle Adept. Olivia isn't an exception, and the combo of Ruby Sword+ and Fury 3 lets her deal pretty good damage to Greens without being too badly hurt in return, at least in comparison to how much damage she could have taken. Of course, that does mean she won't be viable against Blues and some Reds... I'm not sure how much there is to fairly say about Olivia. She is a Dancer, not a fighter, and she doesn't stray far from what it is a Dancer wants to be doing in battle. Rating: 6/10 Running with a Ruby Sword will let Olivia battle safely against Greens, but Olivia is still a Dancer first, and she does that just fine. Henry Spoiler How times have changed for Henry. In the past, he wasn't considered that great. One of the worst attack stats on an offense-intended unit, Resistance that isn't good for a mage, and no Speed stat to speak of. Good Defense and pretty good HP, but that wasn't what you wanted in a mage, Red especially. Now though, Henry has the tools available to be a viable threat. That is to say, the tools have been available for a while, but it also took a shift in the meta for him to REALLY get the birds flying. Henry can use the rather limited in use Raudhrowl tome to boost all of his stats by 6 just by staying with the group, not counting any Spurs and Drives the group has on hand, and Close Counter to enable counterattacks against Melee units. With a +Def nature and refine, he will easily hit 44 Defense, which by no means is bad. That's a pretty powerful Bonfire or Ignis, and he won't be taking much damage from foes as a result. His Resistance will also become slightly more respectable, and with the Guard skill he won't be on the receiving end of powerful specials, meaning the amount of damage he takes overall is limited. Of course, his Speed and Attack still suck. 40 attack is just plain bad when you can't equip Triangle Adept 3, and there's a reason why his ideal nature is -Spd, which means he would hit 25 Spd with full Raudhrowl buff. Also worth keeping in mind, his Defensive ability is still not as good as many of the units we've gotten recently, so he can't wall color disadvantages as well as, say, Beruka can. He has merits that make him an appetizing unit, yes, but you need to be willing to overlook all of Henrys shortcomings and recognize his strengths to really want to build him. Rating: 5.5/10 Henry makes for a good magical wall, but he requires a lot of attention to really reach that point, plus his stats not only limit his number of possible uses, but also makes him seem bad in the eyes of someone not willing to go that far for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Emblem Fan Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 8 hours ago, The Priest said: The votes for the poll. I see 2 people who didn't participate at all and gave their vote. Ooh gotcha! I gotta abstain from these next two, haven't really used them much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiki Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) @Simpsons138 I noticed this for a while but you know that we aren't rating characters on their base kit, right? I hope that your score doesn't include that because that would mean ... *draws knife* You didn't read the rules. @Xenomata Just saying but you can also just give her a Wo Dao + Moonbow + TA and watch the fireworks. Considering refinery is a big thing the Ruby Sword + Fury combo is pretty underwhelming. On 7.6.2018 at 4:44 AM, LordFrigid said: Bleh. So...release date first, then break ties with color (red→blue→green→colorless), then break ties with the catalog of heroes order? Something along these lines. For this cycle we would skip Green and continue with Colorless. Only once we're done with the Launch units, we go banner-wise. Olivia: 7.42 Henry: 3.42 Subaki, Perfect Expert Spoiler Max. Stats: 36/40/43 22/25/29 32/35/38 32/35/38 19/22/25 Base Skills: Sapphire Lance+ Swap ( - ) Resistance+ Quick Riposte ( - ) Peri, Playful Slayer Spoiler Max. Stats: 32/35/39 30/33/36 30/33/36 20/23/26 27/30/33 Base Skills: Killer Lance+ ( - ) Glimmer Resistance+ ( - ) Threaten Def Edited June 9, 2018 by The Priest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Emblem Fan Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Subaki: Subaki has great speed and defense and good HP, but his attack is low so doubling won't mean much if he's just doing chip damage. His Sapphire Lance works wonders on red units but you're honestly better off swapping it out for a more powerful and rounded lance, he'll need the attack. He comes with Quick Riposte which is a good skill, and you can build off that to make him a decent enemy phase unit with some new skills. He'll do fine as a player phase unit but more work is required. His real downfall, though, is Tana. She can do the same things, but better thanks to her better attack. 6/10 I'll have to abstain from Peri. I despise her and cannot rank her objectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Branniglenn Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Subaki - Best Def of any blue flier. He would be tied with Valter but Valter can't reach a max merge level. It would be too flattering to call this guy a blue Beruka. His attack stat is pitiful, and speed a dubious stat for a wall. And the drop in HP makes his physical bulk not reach the levels of Lukas or very many armor units. The Slaying Lance will help proc those necessary bonfires but the wait can still be painful. I want to give him a lower rating, but I know this game is filled with more poor lance units than any other kind, and there's no blue flier quite like him. so Subaki gets a 4.5 out of 10 for being unique within his class and at least on the border of viability. Peri - 33/33 is a competitive offensive spread for a lance cav. Oscar and Roderick are packing another crucial point in speed for their firesweep build, but Peri's got a 30 Res stat for Def Ploy which makes her stand out. She's debatably the best Firesweep user among cavs because of it, and certainly the best brave lance user among cavs but who cares. It's important you go with either of those two weapons since Peri is considerably frail due to her low HP stat. She will not survive counterattacks. 6.5 out of 10. I think Peri is top of the lance cavs in the game, with the notable exception of Legendary Ephraim who is not only a great unit in his own right but scores higher than other options through BST and Personal weapon. You'll stunt Peri's potential if you take the HP Superboon for better arena scoring. Past Ratings Spoiler Alfonse - 3 Marth - 7 Sharena - 3 Jagen - 1 Anna - 4.5 Barst - 3 Cain - 4 Draug - 7.5 Gordin - 5 Jeorge - 5.5 Abel - 5.5 Linde - 9 Minerva - Abstain Merric - 3.5 Maria - 6 Wrys - 3.5 Ceada - Abstain Ogma - 4 Catria - 4 Est - 6 Sheena - 6.5 Cecilia - 4 Clarine - 6.5 Matthew - 4 Palla - 2.5 Roy -7 Gwendolyn - 7.5 Shanna - 4.5 Bartre - 7 Fae - 7.5 Serra - 4 Lissa - 2 Tiki - 8 Lilina - 7 Florina - 1.5 M!Robin - 3.5 Hector - 8 Raven - 8.5 Gaius - 4 out of 10 Virion - 3.5 Raigh - 1.5 Sophia - 3.5 Sully -2.5 Cordelia -7 Hawkeye - 5.5 Nino - 8 Felicia - 6.5 Jakob - 1 Fir - 4 Eliwood - 5.5 Donnel - 3.5 Nowi - 8.5 Frederick - 6.5 Cherche - 7.5 Saizo - 4 Kagero - 4.5 Lyn - 7 Chrom - 5 F!Corrin - 7 Azura - 6.5 Gunter - 3 Camilla - 5.5 Azama - 6.5 Setsuna - 3.5 Stahl - 2.5 Lonqu - 3 Hinoka - 7.5 Oboro - 2.5 Beruka - 6 Arthur - 2 Takumi - 5.5 Sakura - 3 Olivia - 7 Henry - 2 Subaki - 4.5 Peri - 6.5 Ratings I would change in retrospect: Gordin would be a 2.5, Cain would be a 3. Linde would be 7. Nowi would be an 8. And I'd drop Matthew and Saizo to 3.5. Beruka would be a 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simpsons138 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 2 hours ago, The Priest said: @Simpsons138 I noticed this for a while but you know that we aren't rating characters on their base kit, right? I hope that your score doesn't include that because that would mean ... *draws knife* You didn't read the rules. Actually, no, all scores are how they are for Arena, SI, Rarity, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexmender Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Subaki. He fills a unique niche for Lance Fliers thanks to his high Hp/Spd/Def making him one of the best flying tanks in the game, sadly his niche isn't that useful as blue is a better offensive color than defensive but Subaki's ability to tank practically every sword in the game and counter with a powerful Bonfire/Ignis makes him a strong unit even if he's pretty niche. His main downsides are his low Res that makes him an easy prey to mages and his pathetic Atk which makes him a sitting duck while his special charges. He would benefit a lot from a Prf weapon that plays to his strengths but even without one Subaki can put a lot of work if you use him properly. Rating: 4.5/10 Peri. She used to be the best offensive lance cavalier before the arrival of Oscar but him being slightly more min-maxed doesn't mean that Peri isn't a threat when played correctly. Her offensive spread of 33/33 is relatively below average these days but is still able to put a lot of work with a +Spd nature. Her high Res allows her to use skills like Def and Spd Ploy to increase her damage or doubling potential respectively. One of her main downsides is her pathetic Def which makes her prone to die in the Enemy Phase and take lots of damage if the enemy can retaliate, which is why it's best to stick her to pure PP builds using a Firesweep Lance or a Brave Lance. Her low BST makes her not that appealing in the long term but she's still a pretty powerful unit. Rating: 7/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordFrigid Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) Subaki Physically bulky stat line, featuring high Spd, good Def, mediocre Res, and low Atk. He can actually run a Player Phase Harmonic Lance/Moonbow set fairly well, with strong red, and good blue matchups when Hone Fliers is active. However, he is dependent on a special activation, and cannot ORKO the fastest of Red threats, such as Ayra. He can take a good 2-3 engagements with Sword-wielding foes, but must beware of dragons. He is ideally used as a red check with this set, since he will take a decent chunk of damage from blue foes. Strong red, mediocre blue matchups with a Slaying or Harmonic Lance/DC set. He can also make decent use of Berkut's Lance to become a more all-around tank, but loses out on one-round 3-charge special activations. resulting in poorer one-round performance. As a flier, he can carry a flier field or combat buff in his C passive slot. Overall, I give him 7.5 for combat (strong red, good blue matchups on offense), and 1 for support (flier field/combat buff), for a total rating of 7/10. A good Spd stat paired with a Harmonic Lance went a long way towards mitigating his lower Atk stat. I'm kind of questioning the combat rating I gave Shanna now. On the one hand, she does have somewhat better offense matchups with a few more Atk points. On the other, she takes a lot more physical damage than Subaki with her significantly lower Def, and lacks the powerhouse-level offensive stat line that would let her run Desperation without a guaranteed special activation in this meta. Peri Offense focused stat line with good Atk and Spd, decent Res, and low Def. Her good offensive stat line, when paired with a Hone Cavalry buff, allows her to run the prominent offensive lances pretty well. She has very strong red and blue matchups with a Brave/Desperation kit, but has trouble setting it up against Lances. She can also run a Firesweep set that has lower KO counts but is immune to counterattacking. Her defensive matchups are not as good as her offensive matchups, where her low Def hurts her. She can use her decent Res stat to become a Berkut's Lance mage check, if needed, but this is a very specialized role. As a cavalry unit, she can carry a cavalry field or combat buff in her C passive slot. Her decent Res also affords her some Ploy capability. Overall, I give her 8.5 for combat (strong red and blue matchups on offense), and 1.5 for support (cavalry field/combat buff, ploy capability), for a total rating of 8/10. Not very many additional notes to give for Peri. She's got a solid offensive stat line and it reflected in her combat performance. ~ Scoring method: Spoiler Units are evaluated based on both their combat performance and their team support capabilities (i.e. their whole contribution to a team). Combat performance is judged by matchups, especially against enemies that are at triangle disadvantage or neutral to the unit. Performance against more relevant meta threats is more valuable than performance against units that are rarely seen. Triangle Adept sets are not considered, though they might be noted. Scale of 0 to 10. Sustainability and filling a useful niche are given small bonuses, when applicable. I will look at least one PP-focused and one EP-focused skill set for each unit, but only evaluate based on performance for whichever phase I deem the unit to be stronger on. Support capabilities are decided by how much support a unit can provide (without horribly compromising their combat capabilities), and how valuable I feel that support is. Scale of 0 to 3. At the end, the combat and support scores will be weighted (with a heavy focus on combat performance), combined, and rounded to the nearest .5 to obtain the total rating. Dancers and Singers will get +1 point to their total rating (not to exceed 10), because I value Dance/Sing utility highly. This method of evaluation essentially compares each unit to a hypothetical "god unit" who is stellar at everything, instead of each unit to each other. All my ratings. And now to go rework my forecast. Edited June 8, 2018 by LordFrigid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenomata Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, The Priest said: @Xenomata Just saying but you can also just give her a Wo Dao + Moonbow + TA and watch the fireworks. Considering refinery is a big thing the Ruby Sword + Fury combo is pretty underwhelming. Fair enough, but on a budget, Ruby Sword at least still has its maximum effect even when just a normal weapon, as opposed to Wo Dao being unrefinable until it is upgraded to Wo Dao+. Subaki Spoiler Subaki is perfect... in the sense that his base kit has everything you'd need to pull off an effective sword-slaying kit. Pretty high Defense and Speed, but low attack and resistance, made up for by his default Sapphire Lance. On top of being able to resist the doubling that most Swords are known for, he can also double in return thanks to Quick Riposte, and having Swap means he is able to stand in for another unit who is soon to be on the receiving end of a Sword unit. While Resistance +3 isn't all that useful, it at least tries to fix a problem Subaki has without being considered comically useless (Looking at you, Virion...) That said, it's once you start inheriting skills that Subaki starts to seem underwhelming. Without merges, Attack boosting passives, or an Attack Refine, Subakis 25 base Atk only translates to 39 attack with most lances, rendering him much weaker than many of the popular Lance Fliers, even if he goes with his Superboon in Atk. While his Defense and HP means he can take a hit from some bows, and his speed makes it possible to resist being doubled by some bows, he is still vulnerable to all forms of ranged attack due to his low Resistance. and Flierbane weaponry. In my opinion, Subaki's biggest weakness is that he doesn't have the ability to be taken seriously when his Quick Riposte skill makes him valuable as Skill Fodder. Some people might consider 5*ing one Subaki for his sword slaying abilities, but beyond that why bother building someone when they have a skill as rare as Quick Riposte? He is perfect the way he is, and he does have a niche as a pretty good bulky Lance Flier once you begin investing in him, but it does require you be willing to give Subaki a chance. Rating: 7/10 Subaki's default kit is perfect for taking on the many fast and powerful swords in the game, but once you begin building him he has to be compared to stronger and tankier units, or stronger and faster units. Being a bulky Lance Flier has its uses, but you have to really be dedicated to those uses before you promote Subaki for anything other than Quick Riposte 3. Peri Spoiler Peri is an odd offensive Lance Cavalier. Her Attack and Speed are decent, but not great. Her Defense is borderline useless, and her HP is doing her very few favors. What Peri does have is a surprisingly decent Resistance stat. 30 base may not be that great, but for the purpose of ploying enemies, it's actually better than what most units in the game have. Peri is somewhat flexible in her role, but she still faces competition from other Lance Cavalry, most of whom have better Attack, Speed, or both. Many of them, however, are still victims of low Resistance, making them not as able to run with a Ploy skill as Peri is. Run with her default Killer/Slaying Lance, give her a Brave Lance, make her magically bulky with Berkut's Lance, or merge her to +10 and give her a Firesweep Lance. There are certainly things she can do, but other Lance Cavalry are just as capable, if not better, at using these weapons as Peri is. And again, most of them can't run Ploy skills like Peri can. She requires working around, and the unit you can build from her won't be that bad, if outperformed by others. But it does require some creative thinking... or looking to the left and running from an Ice Dragon. Rating: 6/10 Peri faces competition from other Lance Cavalry in what she can do, but her decent Res makes her able to run with Ploy skills, something other Cavalry find a harder task, and in combination with her decent offensive stats can become deadly after Ploying. Edited June 8, 2018 by Xenomata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordFrigid Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) Day 39 Subaki (not Subaru, accursed auto-correct): 5.8, Peri: 6.875 Niles (Cruel to be Kind) Spoiler Max. Stats: 34/37/41 22/25/29 31/34/37 13/17/20 31/34/37 Base Skills: Killer Bow+ ( - ) Iceberg Warding Blow 3 ( - ) Spur Res 3 Elise (Budding Flower) Spoiler Max. Stats: 27/30/33 29/32/35 29/32/35 16/19/22 19/32/35 Base Skills: Gravity+ Recover+ Kindled-Fire Balm ( - ) Live to Serve 3 ( - ) Edited June 8, 2018 by LordFrigid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexmender Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Niles. He has an interesting niche as an anti-mage bow which is shown by his high Spd/Res. He can fire off a very powerful Iceberg/Glacies when using the Guard Bow+ and dual Distant Defense. Sadly he's kinda limited to this role (and doing chip damage with Firesweep bow+ dual Poison Strike) thanks to his pathetic Atk stat which makes him a sitting duck outside of his specials and it is so bad that he's unable to kill some relatively bulky fliers that don't have Iote's Shield. His niche is serviceable and he'd love a Prf to further accentuate it. Rating: 3.5/10 Elise. Say hello to the most powerful healer in the game. At first glance Elise's stats don't seem too noteworthy with a balanced 32/32 offensive spread coupled with 32 Res and pathetic Hp/Def. Before the weapon refiney Elise's niche was that she was able to be a decent offensive healer thanks to cavalry buffs and with Absorb she'd be able to last quite a bit against mages, although not as much as one would wish making her a usable unit but not a very good one. Come healers buffs and Bond skills and now Elise is able to use the cancerous Dazzling+Wrathful combo which gets even more ridiculous thanks to Elise's above average offenses which can be further increased with Bond skills and Horse buffs. Underestimate this "technically adult" and you'll see your team get worn down to death and unable to fight back thanks to how Gravity+ works. In the player hands Elise will have an easier time disrupting the AI to the point where you could even win without taking a single point of damage. Her main drawbacks are her pathetic bulk (don't let anything touch her) and her low BST due to being a ranged horse. Other than that Elise is a monster that you should keep an eye on. Rating: 9/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Branniglenn Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) Niles - Highest Res of any archer but even with an attack superboon his offenses aren't serviceable. Always coming short of Setsuna who is also not a good unit. Plus dragons target his Def stat now. His speed is high enough to avoid doubles from mages if you spec into it, but even then he'll trade against his seemingly most relevant matchup rather than kill them. 1.5 out of 10. Elise - Really the best healer in the game until all of them lose their jobs once the first flying healer is released. Elise is top of her class in Atk/spd and even has a res stat competing with infantry healers if you want some ploy utility. With Live to Serve seal coming out I think her offense oriented set just got a much needed boost to its versatilty. 7.5 out of 10. Past Ratings Spoiler Alfonse - 3 Marth - 7 Sharena - 3 Jagen - 1 Anna - 4.5 Barst - 3 Cain - 4 Draug - 7.5 Gordin - 5 Jeorge - 5.5 Abel - 5.5 Linde - 9 Minerva - Abstain Merric - 3.5 Maria - 6 Wrys - 3.5 Ceada - Abstain Ogma - 4 Catria - 4 Est - 6 Sheena - 6.5 Cecilia - 4 Clarine - 6.5 Matthew - 4 Palla - 2.5 Roy -7 Gwendolyn - 7.5 Shanna - 4.5 Bartre - 7 Fae - 7.5 Serra - 4 Lissa - 2 Tiki - 8 Lilina - 7 Florina - 1.5 M!Robin - 3.5 Hector - 8 Raven - 8.5 Gaius - 4 out of 10 Virion - 3.5 Raigh - 1.5 Sophia - 3.5 Sully -2.5 Cordelia -7 Hawkeye - 5.5 Nino - 8 Felicia - 6.5 Jakob - 1 Fir - 4 Eliwood - 5.5 Donnel - 3.5 Nowi - 8.5 Frederick - 6.5 Cherche - 7.5 Saizo - 4 Kagero - 4.5 Lyn - 7 Chrom - 5 F!Corrin - 7 Azura - 6.5 Gunter - 3 Camilla - 5.5 Azama - 6.5 Setsuna - 3.5 Stahl - 2.5 Lonqu - 3 Hinoka - 7.5 Oboro - 2.5 Beruka - 6 Arthur - 2 Takumi - 5.5 Sakura - 3 Olivia - 7 Henry - 2 Subaki - 4.5 Peri - 6.5 Niles - 1.5 Elise - 7.5 Ratings I would change in retrospect: Gordin would be a 2.5, Cain would be a 3. Linde would be 7. Nowi would be an 8. And I'd drop Matthew and Saizo to 3.5. Beruka would be a 7. Edited June 8, 2018 by Glennstavos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenomata Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 Niles Spoiler Let's start with the good. Niles has one of the best base Resistances in the game at 34, which may not be considered great by todays standards, but it opens the path for him to be a good Ploy user, and his Speed means he will not be doubled often, and may even pull off some doubles of his own at times. He also comes with Iceberg, making his a pretty powerful user of the skill. ...that's about it. Niles almost needs that ability to ploy, because his attack is just plain bad at base 25. Maybe it wouldn't be as bad if he had a powerful weapon, but ranged weaponry are all weaker than melee weaponry, so he needs support from merges and Passives to get his attack to a respectable level. He also suffers the typical bow problem, having very low defense. Setting back Niles the most is that many archers released since game launch follow semi-closely in his stat spread, but do it better because they aren't boggled down by low attack, yet still have respectable Speed and Resistance. Niles is more accessible than most of them, albeit. Niles can run with Guard Bow to become a dedicated mage tank, only really running into the issue that he will still take a lot of damage from Bladetomes, but this still works well for Niles since many mages have even worse Defense than himself, and his Resistance still remains as one of the highest among bow users. One can also opt for a Firesweep set that takes advantage of ploys to further boost his own damage, but this requires him to run a skill other than Life and Death 3, as that lowers his Resistance as well. Overall, Niles isn't the strongest unit. Usable surely, but you could pull for better if you really wanted to. Rating: 4/10 Niles doesn't have the power to really take advantage of the offensive threat most bows pose. He can run with a Guard Bow to become a dedicated mage tank, but he otherwise doesn't have many options. He is one of the better Ploy users in the game though. Elise Spoiler Admittedly, I still don't have Elise. I've used similar to Elise, but not Elise herself. Elise is pretty much the best Staff user in the game, ever since staffs became Wrathful Dazzling sweepers. While she doesn't have as high Attack as Genny, or as high Speed as Nanna, she makes up for it by having pretty good in both. Her Resistance is respectable, and her HP and Defense are horrid. Elise has the advantage over many other staff users by being on a horse, giving her access to powerful Cavalry buffs and raising her respectable offensive stats to downright oppressive levels. She also has a decent starting kit, with Gravity+ having a powerful effect only limited by its short range compared to other staves, and Recover+ being the strongest healing option in the game. Elise's downfall is that she suffers the same problems as all Staff users do: limited accessibility of A skills means she has to rely on the measly Stat booster skills or nothing at all (Close Counter is wasted on her low Defense and HP), her B skill has to be either Dazzling Staff or Wrathful Staff, or just don't bother at all, and she has no offensive specials to speak of. But these are the typical Healer problems, and it doesn't stop Elise from being one of the best among them. Rating: 9/10 Elise has benefits that other staff users only wish they could have, between access to powerful Cavalry buffs and a decent offensive spread. While she isn't as fast as some of the other healers before buffs, and she still suffers from the common "horrid defense and HP" problem, she is still one of the strongest, and she remains as one of the best healer nukes in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Emblem Fan Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 Niles: The only thing that might be good about Niles is his resistance, as his attack and defense are both pitiful. However, he's totally outshined in that resistance by Innes, who also has better stats all around, and comes with a fancy personal weapon! With stats that are either bad or totally outshined by someone else, he'll take a bunch of work and favoritism to make viable, even others like Rebecca are better than him. 2/10 Elise: Ah, Elise. She has surprisingly high attack for a healer, so she can fight a little bit if the opponent has low resistance, and she has high speed and resistance. However, she also has the worst HP in the whole game, and bad defense to go with it, but as a healer she shouldn't even be on the front lines in the first place. She heals like all healers, AND she's on a horse, giving her an edge in mobility. 7/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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