Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER

[RADicate]

On smogon im 3p1k and PS we did some makeover thing so im like "Assembly Member Chui"...... i didnt make that profile i promise .-.

[RADicate]

I'll get back to you @Fenrir Aesir after i finish my chores. Also add athena to the list of town.

[RADicate]

@Makaze (meant to tag you two posts ago)

[Iris]

Day 2: Automated Votals from #450 to #478

Not voting (11): athena_57, Bartozio, EvanManManMan, Fable, Fenrir Aesir, Junk, Mackc2, Makaze, RADicate, XnadrojX, Zeonth

Phase ends in 45h53m. Hammer at 8.

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[Fable]

3 minutes ago, RADicate said:

I'll get back to you @Fenrir Aesir after i finish my chores. Also add athena to the list of town.

y tho?

[Makaze]

3 minutes ago, Fable said:

Mak's vote was lazy af and I just see it as "let me get this mislynch since I can't get Fable's so I'll get the one person kinda defending him." Maybe I'm tunneling but idec at this point. I don't know how satsuma's lynch got so much more information when we were kinda in the same boat so it doesn't come across as authentic reasoning to me. 

My Satsuma was read was mostly sheeping athena's case and I gave examples of posts from Satsuma that pinged me, so you're going to have to actually read what I said if you don't want to be lazy yourself. I didn't vote until I did my homework, and starting to think about it because of sheeping does not mean the same thing as just throwing a vote on the wagon. When I voted I thought I was barely putting it over the lynch on me, making it self-pres as well.

What has me wondering is whether you are intentionally misrepping or just lazily misrepping, and either way I don't see the value if I am your highest scum read. You should be casing me hardcore and have examples if it's not gut.

[RADicate]

30 minutes ago, Fenrir Aesir said:

On determining if Athena's first post is more likely to be trying to look proactive or trying to generate responses: they're asking questions pretty consistently throughout their ISO. The main issue I have is with their initial questions, which are barely related to the game and they were very quick to give Xnad a townlean based on his response (and then was also quick to shift to voting Xnad). I still think Athena's initial posts are scummy in a vacuum but the questions at least are in line with what seems to be their general playstyle (based on how in the rest of the ISO they seems to be asking questions about everything they can).

I like EvanManManMan's first post less while rereading just since when I think of why he'd comment on having no reads on page 2 but not do anything towards getting them I struggle to think of why he'd do so as town; I'm reading the rest of his iso now though. Also need to reread Mackc2 and Bartozio as I don't have very strong leanings on them either way and can't remember much of what they posted off the top of my head and look at the Rapier nightkill-from what I recall he was pretty widely townread but not to the extent that some others were.

One thing I really didn't like from EoD:

Rad unvotes SoySoy to "avoid hammer" and doesn't revote when informed there are only three minutes remaining. I can see him doing this as either alignment, but in his final post of the day he's suddenly like "if SoySoy flips town look for scum on that wagon" and it makes it feel a lot like he doesn't want to be caught on it at EoD. Fable has a similar comment on disliking the SoySoy wagon, but Fable was pretty consistent/vocal in his dislike of that wagon beforehand. In Rad's initial vote on SoySoy he asks, "What do you think about things; since your hanging out?" and then he doesn't speak to of reference SoySoy again until those last 3 posts. I think if Rad were town he'd've acknowledged/interacted with SoySoy to some extent after the initial vote. @Makaze, @Fable, and @athena_57, why were you townreading Rad day 1? I'd been assuming Makaze's at least to be a gut/tone read, but upon comparing his tone here to a couple of other games with him I found he's generally more casual/assertive than what I've seen here so far:

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-mafia-invitational-redux-game-thread-game-over.3629685/page-90 
http://ps-mafia.proboards.com/thread/537/countdown-gg-mafia
http://ps-mafia.proboards.com/thread/556/modified-execution-abandoned

Whereas in this thread he's been more controlled and reserved.

In the Smogon game in particular he's much better with interacting with his scumreads than he was here with SoySoy. I don't have a scumgame of his to compare this to though, so to the three I mentioned above and @RADicate do you think there's another potential explanation for this difference?

(Wasnt the invitational redux the one i subbed in and idled until lylo in? Idt that smogon game had me interacting with anyone and doing anything of relevance until lylo; thats probably a bad example.... i dont like acknoledging the fact i joined that game tbh) I genuinely didnt believe it mattered whether i revoted or not when the wagon was undoubtably locked in place by that point. Still agree with fable about that wagon probably being scum driven. I believe the brunt of the wagon itself came into existance while I was at work; i personally didnt know the soy wagon had that much traction until i hopped on the thread about three minutes before my "avoid hammer" post; so I couldnt have stated my opinions on it beforehand. Also; acting under the implication that a mid-d1 lynch coupled with me asking for their thoughts (asked for them because they were stalking thread at the time) implies a scumread is probably a bit of a stretch (whether intended or not). They were null if not leaning ever so slightly scum on the basis they didnt do much. 

[Athena_57]

Fenrir's response answers my question, solidifying my townlean on him.

 

@Fenrir Aesir

I actually had similar vibes with that RAD comment, but just sort of assumed he still counted himself as part of the wagon, especially as his unvote was a no-hammer vote and not a "nah, I don't think this scum"-unvote. Looking at his above post he apparently does not see himself as part of it though in which case I feel it's a very easy potshot/distance play for scum!him to make.

My townread was for him asking the right questions I feel, combined with a good gutread. He seemed critical of people's scumreads, though admittedly I may be biased here since a bunch of his posts were in defense of me.

 

20 minutes ago, RADicate said:

(Wasnt the invitational redux the one i subbed in and idled until lylo in? Idt that smogon game had me interacting with anyone and doing anything of relevance until lylo; thats probably a bad example.... i dont like acknoledging the fact i joined that game tbh) I genuinely didnt believe it mattered whether i revoted or not when the wagon was undoubtably locked in place by that point. Still agree with fable about that wagon probably being scum driven. I believe the brunt of the wagon itself came into existance while I was at work; i personally didnt know the soy wagon had that much traction until i hopped on the thread about three minutes before my "avoid hammer" post; so I couldnt have stated my opinions on it beforehand. Also; acting under the implication that a mid-d1 lynch coupled with me asking for their thoughts (asked for them because they were stalking thread at the time) implies a scumread is probably a bit of a stretch (whether intended or not). They were null if not leaning ever so slightly scum on the basis they didnt do much. 

Hm, I don't think the wagon is clear either and my two biggest scumreads were on there, but why do you feel it has to be scumdriven? To be completely honest, I don't think scum were getting much heat day 1. There were hardly any wagons and the only consensus reads besides townreads were "Fable is lazy" and "Satsuma should post", why would scum have to risk things by collectively pushing for a mislynch here?

I think there are individually scummy people there and agree there should be one or two scum to be found, but I'm hesitant to call it scumdriven.

[RADicate]

3 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

Fenrir's response answers my question, solidifying my townlean on him.

 

@Fenrir Aesir

I actually had similar vibes with that RAD comment, but just sort of assumed he still counted himself as part of the wagon, especially as his unvote was a no-hammer vote and not a "nah, I don't think this scum"-unvote. Looking at his above post he apparently does not see himself as part of it though in which case I feel it's a very easy potshot/distance play for scum!him to make.

My townread was for him asking the right questions I feel, combined with a good gutread. He seemed critical of people's scumreads, though admittedly I may be biased here since a bunch of his posts were in defense of me.

 

Hm, I don't think the wagon is clear either and my two biggest scumreads were on there, but why do you feel it has to be scumdriven? To be completely honest, I don't think scum were getting much heat day 1. There were hardly any wagons and the only consensus reads besides townreads were "Fable is lazy" and "Satsuma should post", why would scum have to risk things by collectively pushing for a mislynch here?

I think there are individually scummy people there and agree there should be one or two scum to be found, but I'm hesitant to call it scumdriven.

Bold 1-While it may not have been my intention to start a wagon; I was still very much a part of it. And even said Soy could still flip scum despite my feelings about the wagon formation.

Bold 2-Bad wording on my end tbh; what i meant was something a bit closer to what you said there at the bottom. Its an easy wagon for scum to hide in; which means its likely at least in part being pushed/driven by scum. But scum likely hopped on somewhere along the line. I need to go back and do a bit of homework on the wagon itself; where everyone hopped on and under what context etc. I'll get on that after my shift @ work tonight. 

[RADicate]

Uh on bold #2 i meant to bold the second to last paragraph as well as the last line.

[Athena_57]

4 minutes ago, RADicate said:

Bold 1-While it may not have been my intention to start a wagon; I was still very much a part of it. And even said Soy could still flip scum despite my feelings about the wagon formation.

Bold 2-Bad wording on my end tbh; what i meant was something a bit closer to what you said there at the bottom. Its an easy wagon for scum to hide in; which means its likely at least in part being pushed/driven by scum. But scum likely hopped on somewhere along the line. I need to go back and do a bit of homework on the wagon itself; where everyone hopped on and under what context etc. I'll get on that after my shift @ work tonight. 

Okay, makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up

[Fable]

Debating in my head if the NK was a frame job against athena for the fact that the athena wagon was pure and if I should be concerned. 

Gonna look at that wagon at it's peak because I remember more people being on there but I don't think it was ever actually that close to satsuma. 

[RADicate]

1 minute ago, athena_57 said:

Okay, makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up

Mhm. You said you had similiar thoughts on the wagon formation btw; where do you think the scum is on it?

[Fable]

Evan shading rapier for casing athena is very interesting in italics. 

[Fable]

Also it was never close it was like just fen on there who moved which makes it even more likely that wagon was pure all day.

 

[Athena_57]

7 minutes ago, RADicate said:

Mhm. You said you had similiar thoughts on the wagon formation btw; where do you think the scum is on it?

Worst vote is Mackc/Makaze due to being sheepish, most scummy player is Bartozio imo.

Bartozio > Mackc >> Makaze, the latter being a nullread for me, the first two scumreads. All other people feel town.

[RADicate]

2 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

Worst vote is Mackc/Makaze due to being sheepish, most scummy player is Bartozio imo.

Bartozio > Mackc >> Makaze, the latter being a nullread for me, the first two scumreads. All other people feel town.

Mmk. Thanks for your thoughts. I havent given bartz a solid look and still need to analyze the wagon in detail for myself if im being honest so I'll get back to you on that later on; after i get back from work. 

[Fable]

18 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

You'll never catch me D1 "scumhunting" alive

This made me lol btw.

Respect satsuma. :p

[Iris]

Day 2: Automated Votals from #450 to #493

Not voting (11): athena_57, Bartozio, EvanManManMan, Fable, Fenrir Aesir, Junk, Mackc2, Makaze, RADicate, XnadrojX, Zeonth

Phase ends in 43h53m. Hammer at 8.

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[Iris]

Day 2: Automated Votals from #494 to #494

Not voting (11): athena_57, Bartozio, EvanManManMan, Fable, Fenrir Aesir, Junk, Mackc2, Makaze, RADicate, XnadrojX, Zeonth

Phase End

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[Fable]

##Vote: @Iris

[Fable]

Somebody speak words to me about Zeo.

NGL my eyes glazed past most of his walls and I don't get much out of posts like that. I think he and Evan are important to figure out because then we'll have an idea of how bad the pile up on satsuma was. 

[Iris]

Day 2: Automated Votals from #450 to #497

Not voting (11): athena_57, Bartozio, EvanManManMan, Fable, Fenrir Aesir, Junk, Mackc2, Makaze, RADicate, XnadrojX, Zeonth

Errors (1): Fable

Phase ends in 31h47m. Hammer at 8.

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[Makaze]

2 minutes ago, Fable said:

Somebody speak words to me about Zeo.

NGL my eyes glazed past most of his walls and I don't get much out of posts like that. I think he and Evan are important to figure out because then we'll have an idea of how bad the pile up on satsuma was. 

Are you asking for someone else to give you a read to sheep?

Why not interact with Zeo yourself, by asking him something?

[Athena_57]

2 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Are you asking for someone else to give you a read to sheep?

Why not interact with Zeo yourself, by asking him something?

This feels overly snippy