My Hero Academia Mafia - Game Over

[Shinori]

I'm like coughing up a lung at the moment and can't breathe through my nose so choosing to slog through the last 10 pages to find the posts that pinged me on athena is rough.

The most recent one was focused on me WRT what KTS asked about.

KTS quoted some Refa posts and asked Athena and others what people thought it meant WRT me.

Athena instantly jumped into scum reading me and it felt like just a super easy hop on when he was null reading me for what was massively poor reasoning.  Like I don't understand how Refa's posts even really made sense.  I stated I was town reading KTS because of his play in this game being different from the game that he was just in that I watched since I was hosting.  Refa said Town!shinori never does that(I don't understand this nor does it make sense to me) Refa stated he was scum reading me on this but he also stated that after he said "If KTS flips scum I'm going after Shinori for this" I didn't really get the entire argument and Town!shinori defintely does get to have that thought process.

Tl;dr AThena hop on without actually COMMENTING as to why or what made me go from null to scum and I feel like his reads/pushes have been fairly similiar.  Also his passive shrug off where he ignored FTP's post because BART responded to it.

[Shinori]

Hop on just more or less being his words and thought process, he never actually voted me i think.

[Snike]

2 minutes ago, Shinori said:

I'm like coughing up a lung at the moment and can't breathe through my nose so choosing to slog through the last 10 pages to find the posts that pinged me on athena is rough.

The most recent one was focused on me WRT what KTS asked about.

KTS quoted some Refa posts and asked Athena and others what people thought it meant WRT me.

Athena instantly jumped into scum reading me and it felt like just a super easy hop on when he was null reading me for what was massively poor reasoning.  Like I don't understand how Refa's posts even really made sense.  I stated I was town reading KTS because of his play in this game being different from the game that he was just in that I watched since I was hosting.  Refa said Town!shinori never does that(I don't understand this nor does it make sense to me) Refa stated he was scum reading me on this but he also stated that after he said "If KTS flips scum I'm going after Shinori for this" I didn't really get the entire argument and Town!shinori defintely does get to have that thought process.

Tl;dr AThena hop on without actually COMMENTING as to why or what made me go from null to scum and I feel like his reads/pushes have been fairly similiar.  Also his passive shrug off where he ignored FTP's post because BART responded to it.

Sorry to put you through it, didn't realize you were ill. Hope you get better soon.

OK, so a couple of things:

1) Has anyone actually read those links? Like the second post IG connects to the first bc he's criticizing you there for the blanket but that whole interaction's based on misreading marth's comment reacting to TUVY.  It does look lazy for athena there, even if the posts make some sense. But I think it's more a lazy town sorting than scummy sorting bc the counterevidence coming up's strong. If anything I think KTS's being shady there bc it's manufacturing Marth's consent to the argument.

2) Athena caught Tuvy on page 13 like instantly (within a minute) and no one noticed. I don't know why scum would bus scum so snappily on d1 then pursue the case even later on. I thought originally page 14 would be the cutoff for votals but it went on for like 3 pages before the wagon got going.

3)Scum Athena's usually a lot more reactive and I feel like this game he has been proactive. Like, going back to the Corrobin, it looks less like IDNSFMM's play where he interrogated zeus for padding/towncred and more like he's actually trying to pull the newbwolf's teeth. Surgical vs Soap Opera if you will.

 

[Snike]

2 and 3 are my main argument but 2 is really compelling. I looked at the time stamps and his reaction was within a minute + I don't find it scripted at all.

[Snike]

Gnight, thread.

I might be on for deadline if it's not like 6:00 est bc I'm on work but I can't be sure.

[Shinori]

I forgot there was a whole thing regarding a slip honestly.  I was mia for most of like 12-22 or something like that.  I did not pay much attention.

I may have to revisit my KTS read though.  And I need to reread over Marth again when I can.

[Percivalé]

reading through the game! first thing I wanted to say before anything else is I still have a feeling corrobin is scum, mostly from his tendency to respond to some things and not to other things. that especially from what I've seen of him today is rubbing me wrong. might vote here but there's probably somewhere better my vote could be after I'm done

[Percivalé]

before starting the string of wallposts, i was reading KTS town

another thing, i think i was in that game that yolo/KTS (i don't remember which, maybe it was both of them) were referencing and i have context as to why they thought the boron slot was scum. personally i read boron's posts this game as NAI and didn't think she was scum. but it doesn't matter since her slot's dead now lol
however i can see why they thought her slot was scum this game so that tunneling of the boron slot doesn't bother me so much
i think in this case it was just confirmation bias

i'm leaning shinori town but not as strongly as KTS town

a mosquito tried to bite me while i was writing this so Obviously this means the mafia is trying to impede my progress in Solving The Game™

page 6
athena seems especially self-conscious. i remember scum!athena being especially cautious

Quote

this was really weird. why take an entire post in the middle of a serious discussion to make an interaction with another player and talk about something completely unrelated to game? the placement of this felt really weird and fabricated to me; i wanna know if anyone else feels the same

I think marth's LoL comment towards alette was NAI and pointing it out like this (from fairyjigglypuff) is weird but also it's still earlygame here so reaching probably doesn't mean as much
this is also why I was torn on corrobin's shinori vote at first because people reaching for stuff earlygame is a blurred line cuz nearly everybody is tryin to reach to get the game started. 
fairy's alette vote was good tho

(it's confusing me that fairy is using "lynch" the way we'd use "vote" though)

for the record i have no idea how to read marth

i think the first bart post here is easy lynchbait; he quickly follows up on why he thinks alette is scum instead of just leaving it in that first barebones post which i like. gives me Good Feelings. 

KTS voting bart for the first post is valid but i don't think he's scum off that FYI. i remember reading page 7 over work break and thinking corrobin coming in and unvoting then doing nothing else was weird. i didn't move my vote off him for that reason (but then i wasn't present for deadline so that was a thing.)

page 7

marth is actually feeling town to me now which is weird. i can never read marth. i feel like i can tell when he's being kind of cagey and awkward as scum, and he doesn't feel that way for me atm. 

oh yeah bart's KTS vote was still bad and felt reactionary. bart is probably gonna end up null for me
does bart do quick-snap defensive things like this as scum? or was he just convinced scum!KTS was tryin to push an easy lynch or something
i think it's weird because like, why would bart assume/expect of us that we would sheep KTS's one-liner vote or be easily convinced by it
Just Very Scum, i remember doing this in a game i was scum
his post following that: i don't like how he explains his read on athena even though i agree scum!athena does play it safe and up to this point athena has been kinda falling into the criteria of playing it safe. bart's athena read feels easy. idk
they probably aren't buddies? at the same time though their interactions (like athena's playful "how could the Master of Reading Me not have anything to say about me?) are kind of weird. they're the kind of interactions i would expect newbscum buddies to make out in the open though and not really players like bart/athena but i have them noted anyway. i have this incredibly weird feeling that bart might be trying to distance from athena. hm

[Percivalé]

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His lack of explanation isn't anything unusual (as in NAI) and just annoying.

Him getting overly deffensive (which is how I read his vote on me) is scummy, yes. It reminds me of idnsfmm, where he won by just bashing everyone slightly suspecting him (and not doing anything else). In town games, I feel like his logic is a lot more visible, it's just unexplained (as in, I can at least somewhat get why he's coming to certain conclusions).

(bartozio quote)
um this is really weird lol
how can you read KTS's vote on you as "overly defensive" and not see that the way you reacted to KTS's vote on you was kinda overly defensive lol
plus, KTS voted you first... you're wording this as if you voted KTS first and he responded badly to it, which in this case was kind of the other way around. can't tell if town here just misinterpreting the situation or scum attempting to frame KTS's vote in a different context that doesn't exist

[SB.]

Day 2.2 Votals
fairyjigglypuff (2): Bartozio, Athena_57
Magnificence Incarnate (1): Snike
Alette (1): fairyjigglypuff
Mackc2 (1): Killthestory
Corrobin (1): weinerboy

Not Voting: Everyone else

With 15 alive, it takes 5 to lynch and 10 to hammer. Day 2 ends in ~14 hours.

[Percivalé]

page 8

"this is an omgus lol" from me LOL
yeah it was a genuine omgus. made my scum senses all tingly. i kept my vote on corrobin though for reasons explained above.
also I'll admit I was also like, hesitant because bart is mislynched ALL the time (kinda like marth sorta which is another reason why i have a hard time reading him) and i still kind of am now, but i think at this point i probably would have voted him had i had more time to analyze the content here.

i was passive-aggressive towards flee fleet but i think that "voting on d1 is a bad idea" post is NAI now

OH i did vote bart here. i don't actually remember that. okay cool

this is a good post

KTS being uncooperative with people he's scumreading is a town!KTS thing from what I remember (this would have answered refa's question earlier but he's dead now, RIP refa) but the switch to omega was lol

bart gets really heated/focused on KTS which kinda feels like frustrated town who's even more frustrated that people aren't convinced so easily on the KTS read

Quote

am I honestly the only person scumreading this?

sooooo i don't really know now. eat a twinkie i suppose

page 9

shinori feels less defensive than i feel like he would be as scum in the situation with alette so it's making me lean town shinori again
him being noncommittal at this stage of the game is NAI atm
from what i have read on current pages it did improve so i think that checks out anyhow

refa feeling weird about the boron read (was KTS actually in that game, now that i think about it? huh)
i still kinda understand the boron read tho and it didn't seem like opportunistic scum IDK

weiner's vote on flight fleet was good

people are saying bart's frustration was in fact town!bart (athena? was it athena? and refa both said this) soooooooo immmmmm torn on this slot now lol

Quote

There's nothing logically rigorous about this and this is very intuitive, but newb!townies care more about being right and catching scum over how they look. Most people getting into this game consider this more like solving a mystery. A newb!town cares about gaining 'evidence' and so most of their posts are all about doing everything they can to gain evidence and be 'right'. They don't commit to a stance very easily and they ask more questions and are very hesitant to do things. In contrast to this, the newb!mafia wants to appear non-threatening to other people. They make posts that agree with the consensus and try to act like they're friendly and part of the village. Corrobin's vote fits this MO imo, the timing of the vote especially.

i really liked this (and also the rest of this post) from marth
it's a very coherent explanation for his vote on corrobin and HONESTLY i think refa's marth read mostly came from reading the corrobin votes as being too easy or even opportunistic which IMO is a fair point (i really did vote him thinking he was scum though, even if i implied i was undecided on the read; the vote and then unvote coming back in felt very newbscum.)

i kinda agree alette might be easy lynch at this point of game? but i also don't know how to read alette (though i know what it's like being back at earlydays and falling back into coastmode just to get through the early game awkwardness)

page 10-11

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I'm not sure why everyone implies newbies are some sentient blob with 0 brain signals who operate only on motor function to say 'I'm sorry' or 'I don't know what I'm doing'. I can assure you if Corro was being coached by some mates they would tell him to try and come up with reasoning on Shinori even if it's crap, but hey that's my personal opinion

this is a good point actually (however i think if corrobin were getting flak for his actions in mafchat he might have have caught up with mafchat yet were he scum; got the vibes he wasn't really caught up with the game but still needed to backpedal on the shinori vote after seeing it got him some heat)

SHRUG EMOJI

i hate that weinerboy is a huge nullread for me LMAO

i'm not sure how i feel about athena's refa vote, but that might be bias because i know refa's alignment now, and athena is still sitting in the null pool with like half of the game. 

omega actually reads weird to me here (i know he subbed out) but then snike subbed in and i remember something he did as being something i would expect town!snike to do so i'm confused on that slot

im unsurprised tuvy flipped scum LOL

my cat just took a big shit and it smells so i'm gonna brb

 

[Percivalé]

fairyjigglypuff/alette interactions do not feel like town/town

[Percivalé]

I find fairyjigglypuff to be kinda overblowing the alette case....especially with what alette had to say in response. I'm gonna feel incredibly bad if alette is actually scum LOL but i don't know why scum would act the way alette has been acting especially with repeating over and over that she can't get a solid read into the game and continuing to hold this position really steadfast. it's kinda suicide to act this way as scum especially knowing how SF tends to be especially scrutinizing of people who don't make their opinions clear/don't really make an effort to scumhunt or post solid reads so if fairy/alette is scum/town this just TINGLES MY SENSES that fairy is the scum in this situation 

Quote

this is just my personal opinion, but there's no real point in conserving your vote - it's not like it's permanent. i see the vote as a way to voice your tentative opinion, and your hesitance to do so makes it seem like you don't want your opinion out there - i find that scummy. and if you genuinely haven't found anyone incriminating enough to vote, i also find that scummy - that just means you aren't reading into these posts yourself to actively search for scum, and are just resigning yourself to reacting to things being sent your way. i honestly just find it very hypocritical that you talked about the solving process and whatnot, and have exhibited no attempts to scumhunt yourself. obviously, you aren't alone in that - a lot of the newbies are basically doing the same thing, and quite a few others simply aren't participating at all - but you aren't really giving me any reasons to unlynch you.

why did you put so much effort into explaining why you think conserving your vote is scummy but then gave flee fleet a pass for conserving their vote/saying that they felt voting n1 was a bad idea? thinkingemoji

[Percivalé]

throwing that shade at corrobin was also very thinkingemoji

[Percivalé]

fairy said they could not post often and I've kept that in mind, but my misgivings with them aren't based on not having a lot of content. (we really shouldn't give people who haven't posted a lot a pass. last game too many people were like "c.c. was a bad lynch they only posted once" that it was frustrating. if someone is acting like they're scum you call out that shit. i don't care how often they've posted

I'm just gonna cliff's notes the rest of D1. I feel bad for refa LOL. he reads his typical lazy town self the entire way through. I don't agree with a lot of what he had to say (a lot of my opinions overlap with marth's so that's probably why). 

Quote

My issue with you was that you voted someone for something that was alignment neutral and it read as opportunistic to me. You've explained yourself in your recent posts and I don't know if I'm conveying it properly in my thoughts but I haven't been bothered by you since your first response to me wherein you clarified that (I think your logic is wrong but that you having an explanation for it means that you're town).

i know refa is dead but
it's weird he read marth scum for his corrobin vote but not mine
cuz like marth's vote on corrobin was so much better than mine was LOL i was wishywashy about it and everything. that's very thinkingemoji. i'm trying to decide if this clues me in on anything regarding marth's alignment. i still think marth is town up to this point.

right now i'm at like, fairy>corrobin>athena ?? i dunno. 

Quote

I'm kind of just trying to lay low for the first few days. 

(quote from flee fleet)
i... don't expect newbscum to say something like this
especially..........the first few days? like, in-game days? that's a long time to lie low and try to avoid making an impact on the gameflow and admitting it like this is like
very clumsy town i feel like

fairy's jump on fleet is SO WEIRD I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK ABOUT IT it's like, i kind of think i know what fairy's playstyle is like so i'm worried that this is just a playstyle clash difference but like i can't not read this as scum making jumps for small details (and the alette tunnel paired with this is so aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
it doesn't help i'm townleaning both alette and fleet
(fleet moreso then alette though admittedly, the latter being more like null-town)

i don't know what fairy is trying to say here either like
fleet is suspicious for defending alette so they're implying alette/fleet scumteam? but their initial jump onto fleet was for other reasons i dunno something something inconsistency

athena's corrobin vote zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

alette saying "im done with you players like you frustrate me to no end" @ fairy would be counter-productive as scum zzzz

everyone sheeping the town reads on me are right and you should feel good about yourself

knowing that tuvy is scum the corro vote switch with nothing else is very thinkingemoji. "my conversations" was a scumslip wasn't it lol
feelsbadman

Quote

Without going into context? There were some instances that bothered me, like a necessity to overexplain. This is a feeling invoked by FJP as well but the difference with him and FJP is that FJP is provoked into and Athena does it like he's padding his posts. I'm not gonna roll out a wall about it but yea been feeling uneasy about him for a minute. If it were to give it a little context, the way he treated Fleet earlier on was excessively hand-holdy and I didn't like it at all. I'm not sure how you feel his tone is fairly neutral because even if I've only saw him play one game there's more..gumption to his reads. Just doesn't feel like he believes a lot of what he says and he's just saying cuz it looks good

i agree with this post a lot and wanted to add,
the way athena voted & questioned tuvy felt weirdly handholdy too and i wouldn't say that i don't think it's possible they could be buddies

as for athena/bart i don't think it's possible it could be scum/scum anymore like i had said above i thought it would be
i'm townleaning bart now from my first scumlean on him for the record

THE FAIRY UNVOTE MAKES ME AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA BECAUSE IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE AN UNVOTE SCUM WOULD MAKE (ADMITTING TO MISREADING A POST FOR EXAMPLE) BUT I'VE BEEN SO CONFIDENT IN MY READ UNTIL NOW? I'M SO MAD? I'M SO UPSET? 

[Percivalé]

my shoulders hurt and i've spent two hours on this game so i'm gonna go play overwatch.

##vote: corrobin

i was torn between corro and athena vote but corro slot just isn't working for me atm.

[Flee Fleet!]

13 hours ago, Athena_57 said:

Why wouldn't he mention it if he's scum? If you're town and he's scum, why wouldn't he try to get you lynched over something like this?

Quoting this again because I didn't really answer this properly:

I just don't think a scum would be mentioning things like a chainsaw slip really. Unless that's a method for them to jump on a townie and get them lynched. Like I said before though, I could totally  be wrong.

Also, he later stated that he misread my post and thought I was defending Alette (which I wasn't), and hence gave up the chainsaw slip idea. If he is scum, then he probably realized (or his fellow scums notified him) that trying to get me lynched wouldn't work since the reason for doing so was based on a misunderstanding.

 

6 hours ago, Snike said:

Mack explains his but Fleet's almost takes the assumption as some sort of unspoken wisdom which makes me think naivete rather than scum intent.

Honestly? That's pretty accurate, haha. I'm really not the most clever person here. Really sorry about that though, I'm trying to do better. 

 

53 minutes ago, Vi-astra said:

fleet is suspicious for defending alette so they're implying alette/fleet scumteam? but their initial jump onto fleet was for other reasons i dunno something something inconsistency

FJP misunderstood and thought I was defending alette, hence they jumped on me. That was quickly resolved though.

 

52 minutes ago, Vi-astra said:

i... don't expect newbscum to say something like this
especially..........the first few days? like, in-game days? that's a long time to lie low and try to avoid making an impact on the gameflow and admitting it like this is like
very clumsy town i feel like

Yeah, I guess you're right. By first few days I meant like until third day, but I realized that's a poor way of thinking and its not like I, or anyone else for that matter, would not be talked about even if we tried to be less active. 

I guess you could really call me clumsy, haha.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hoping I haven't missed anyone's post discussing me....

I think I'm gonna agree with weiner on voting Corrobin. I honestly get the vibe of him not really being too motivated in playing the game, and the defenses for his actions and constant claims of him being town don't really convince me that he is one. So yeah, I'm going to vote him, I don't feel like he'd be much help anyways (no offense, not intending to be rude)

I also have the urge to vote Tuvy2 because they literally did nothing so far besides doing a vote. I get the feeling that he isn't really motivated to play the game either. But for now:

##Vote: Corrobin

 

 

[Percivalé]

16 minutes ago, Flee Fleet! said:

I guess you could really call me clumsy, haha.

SORRY i didn't mean clumsy in like a bad way! just like. in a slightly obvtown way

[Flee Fleet!]

19 minutes ago, Vi-astra said:

SORRY i didn't mean clumsy in like a bad way! just like. in a slightly obvtown way

Yeah, I get what you mean, no worries!

[Mackc2]

I'll be honest I have not been actively hunting new scum, I don't even know where to begin right now, nothings screaming at me from d2, so I am going to have to either step up my game and put in the effort, or sheep someone. I choose the later I like bart and athena's case on FJP and I have had concerns with the interactions between FJP and Alette and  their case has convinced me that its probably from FJP's side. 

##Vote: Fairytailjigglypuff
I would also vote corrobin, but I am getting flashbacks to some new town players who never cease looking scummy, so I am confused if they are genuinely scum or just bad town. 

[Mackc2]

Also if anyone is curious about the timing, the answer is its my bedtime, as it always will be I will miss the rest of phase cause timezones suck 

[Athena_57]

14 hours ago, Shinori said:

True story about connecting what i did to IDNSFMM4 but it's kind of blatantly different in how the wagons built up, why the slots are being lynched and what is gained from each slots lynch in their respective games.

To be clear, I don't expect townie points for it but I want to be told where there is scum intent behind my EoD1 thoughts.

Not sure whether on purpose or not, but you're pulling my statement out of context. You were saying: "Why the fuck do I act the way I did WRT the Tuvy lynch at EoD as scum?" and using it as an argument you should be townread. I'm saying you'd totally do it as scum as well.

[Athena_57]

14 hours ago, Shinori said:

Ex-fucking-plain.  How is my read on KTS that Refa commented on ANY reason to scum read me here?

Not so much that Refa's read is sheepable, but moreso that the Refa kill looks bad on you. Speaking of which:

19 hours ago, Shinori said:

Also I'm an avid name killer or obv town killer you can ask literally anyone on SF.  I literally kill Prims every game I'm in with him if I roll scum.  Like if I'm scum here I kill Via or someone who was scum reading me.  Or I name kill omega.  I guess maybe refa goes into that list but normally he's not in a list of people I would 100% name kill.

Going back to this defense of yours, this entire thing is silly. Omega had requested a sub before day end, so namekilling him is lol. Via had been inactive up till then. If Refa is a considerable namekill for you, if a step below Via, shouldn't him scumreading you push him over Via, like you're pretty much saying yourself here?

[Athena_57]

12 hours ago, weinerboy said:

Bartozio - There were some things that pinged me about Bart, but my focus has shifted elsewhere so I honestly can't remember it fully. You ever just look at a post and your mind recognizes it but it just seems like a blur? Kinda how I feel about Bart's posts in general. That isn't meant to be offensive, rather I usually catch on independent thought processes more because they are more engaging than someone who is essentially doing the act of rewording or reiterating points that have already been made, whether that be sheepishly agreeing or something else. Bart lacks independent thought to me, and this is my underlying reason why I agreed his was scum in the first place and I don't think he's changed anything to what I initially felt about him.

This read is probably my biggest disagreement with you, so I'll try to explain where I'm coming from. I had a pretty solid townread on him because of the KTS mess, since the conviction/anger about nobody sheeping him is pretty much what I've gotten used to (lol) seeing from him around his mislynches. There's also the minor mindmeld regarding FJP where I was getting ready to respond to FJP's wall but saw Bart's response and was like "Yeah, pretty much that". The 'lack of independent thought', which I can half-agree with is there is something he has as town as well and therefore not something I scumread him for.

Finally, I'll doublecheck this, but what I remember from the game I played with scum!him (TPP), when he was discussing his scumreads he was talking about them, rather than to them. I (town) was one of his scumreads in that game and he kept repeating "Athena is playing to his scum meta" but didn't really question me/talk to me. In contrast, in training mafia where he was town he got into a 1v1 with his top scumread (who was scum) and his replies/pressuring there look a lot more like what I'm seeing from him against KTS at first and FJP now.

I actually agree with almost all of your other reads, for example Alette which you worded pretty well imo. Maybe I disagree with you on yolo/snike, but I'll read that over again and get to it if/when I post a readslist.

13 hours ago, weinerboy said:

Bart > RAD > FJP > Shinori > Corro

Obviously I'm wrong on one of them, my  confidence varies. I think Corro would be a good lynch much like ripping off a bandaid to get it over with. I don't see him being useful or suddenly town over time, but it's just that if we go that angle it's a really easy lynch to get on and I'm kinda leaning on a more spicier lynch cause we happened to get lucky on Tuvy who just decided to not really play the game. I..don't know how to feel about Fleet and I'm sorta hoping he solves himself.
 

I don't really agree with your ordering though (even ignoring Bart), mostly because I'm not really sold on lynching RAD for gamestate reasons when there's actual scummy people around. So I'm in this weird spot where I agree with you on almost everything but don't really like where you end up, kinda similar to how I felt your posts made sense D1 but when I went back I didn't really like where your priorities were across the day.

[Athena_57]

13 hours ago, Alette said:

Over time, I see that if a scum wants to bus and be a deep wolf they would try to not get on too late or too early. In this case, it just seemed strange how you left and was wondering how if your case convinced me to swap to Tuvy.

Yeah, I can get that, I just felt it was kind of weird you left it at this generalization and didn't really go into the specific people (the dead town, the guy who caught tuvy's slip and bart). I think you missed my question, could you tell me where you stand on Bart?

On that note, could you talk about who your top scumreads are in general because I have no clue what your gamestance is atm.