Aether Raids General Thread

[Usana]

9 minutes ago, XRay said:

What is BH!Ike dying to? BH!Ike [+Res,-HP] +0 can tank a fully buffed Laevatein +10, so I cannot imagine a lot of nukes outside of Blazing mages and Infantry Pulsed mages with Glacies or something.

Today a Nino did him in. I don't recall the special but it wasn't blazing and it wasn't infantry pulsed. The real problem was two legendary Azuras and Sturdy Impact. That was enough for her to survive, get danced, and double him a second time which buried him. The flow was Nino Rallying, getting danced. Surviving. Getting danced again. B!Ike dies. There is also a problem of open maps with no real way to block an Azura danced infantry or flyer from just running around B!Ike and murdering Lucina after surviving the initial combat. Half tempted to dump Obstruct on B!Ike. But anyways today was two B!Ike deaths a Lucina falling, an Eir Falling, and my bonus Valentine Titania falling. Burned up all my ladders trying for a full win. And then of course when I have no ladders that was a B!Ike death(I wish there were offense replays because I still have no idea how he died the 2nd time, though it followed the trend of his foe surviving the first exchange and getting danced to finish the job), followed up with Lucina dropping immediately as well thanks to multiple Legendary Azuras dancing the crap out of everyone. I really loathe multiple dancers and think all modes should have the GC 1 dancer limit.
 

[XRay]

2 minutes ago, Usana said:

Today a Nino did him in. I don't recall the special but it wasn't blazing and it wasn't infantry pulsed. The real problem was two legendary Azuras and Sturdy Impact. That was enough for her to survive, get danced, and double him a second time which buried him. The flow was Nino Rallying, getting danced. Surviving. Getting danced again. B!Ike dies. There is also a problem of open maps with no real way to block an Azura danced infantry or flyer from just running around B!Ike and murdering Lucina after surviving the initial combat. Half tempted to dump Obstruct on B!Ike. But anyways today was two B!Ike deaths a Lucina falling, an Eir Falling, and my bonus Valentine Titania falling. Burned up all my ladders trying for a full win. And then of course when I have no ladders that was a B!Ike death(I wish there were offense replays because I still have no idea how he died the 2nd time, though it followed the trend of his foe surviving the first exchange and getting danced to finish the job), followed up with Lucina dropping immediately as well thanks to multiple Legendary Azuras dancing the crap out of everyone. I really loathe multiple dancers and think all modes should have the GC 1 dancer limit.

I see. Do you think a Lull Atk/Spd or Lull Atk/Def would help?

Edited November 29, 2019 by XRay

[Usana]

7 minutes ago, XRay said:

I see. Do you think a Lull Atk/Spd or Lull Atk/Def would help?

Certainly might. No fodder for that though. And no orbs to go hunting given how much trouble Altina gave me.

But yeah I just remember that Nino because normally he doesn't have much trouble with Nino with S Summoner Support, 7 flowers, Dual Light Blessing, Brave Lucina Support, Distant Guard in Lucina's C, Drive Res in Lucina's Seal, and S rank with Lucina. He often survives even blazing mages. I am really not used to him dying. And I forgot to say the second B!Ike death was that Brave Roy that wrecked him(he did have help from dagger debuffs  as well as a Yune, but it was the Roy that scored the kill in that match). Dancers + Galeforce. How many dang actions does that kid want to have in one turn?

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Could also run Dull Ranged. It wouldn't solve the Brave Roy problem, but being hammered by Nino wouldn't be as bad.

[Icelerate]

Thanks to XRay confirming that two Velourias can stack their cooldowns for their supported ally, it means that supported ally can start with cooldown-4. If you have two copies of that ally, they both get cooldown-4 at the start of turn 1. Altina is the first mythic hero that can use galeforce and you are forced to run two offense mythic heroes for maximum scoring so if you have to Velourias and two Altinas, you can have two Altinas that can proc galeforce pretty easily allowing you to kill four units on player phase. Afterwards, all you have to do is tank the remaining two units on enemy phase which should be easy considering you can get rid of all the hard hitting targets on player phase and heavily debuff the remaining two. I made a thread regarding this on Reddit. It's a pretty consistent strategy against those annoying infantry pulse glass canons we keep on seeing in AR. 

So if you have to Velourias, make sure you don't merge them as having two copies of her is very useful. 

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

If you're gonna go that route, run one of the Velourias as a Galeforcer with the Flashing Blade Seal. She still gets her cooldown reduced once, which means you can easily wipe all six enemy units with that setup. Even if you're needing to sandbag for pot collection, having that extra Galeforce action to simply move and body block is quite valuable.

[TEKWRX]

I pulled a +Atk -Spd Altina (Yay!), would the Velouria strategy still be a good idea even if I only have 1 copy of each? I haven't started building my Velouria yet, what are some skills to give her to get going?

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I think you should hold off on building a Galeforce team for ARO, simply because until you're at Fortress parity, you're going to be constantly at a stat disadvantage, which is going to make it really hard for them to proc Heavy/Flashing Blade, as well as possibly fall short on scoring kills. Galeforce sweeping is one of those things that's often very precise in terms of offensive stats.

If you're wanting to build her for PvE practice in the meantime, though, mine is a +Def/-HP (wish she was +Spd, though) who runs Swift Sparrow 2, WoM 3, Savage Blow 3 and the Flashing Blade 3 Seal. Due to not being especially optimized, my Velouria is constantly running into Spd issues in ARO proper, so keep that in mind (she rarely had issues in random practice, though). Peri solves this for her by running Spd Smoke 3, though I think Altina will have a harder time fitting that into her kit, since she is going to want one of either Heavy Blade or Quickened Pulse in her Seal slot, as well as her default A and C. Getting Spd Smoke on her will either require dropping her C for it or dropping her A to pick up Heavy Blade there so you can use the Spd Smoke Seal.

[XRay]

16 minutes ago, TEKWRX said:

I pulled a +Atk -Spd Altina (Yay!), would the Velouria strategy still be a good idea even if I only have 1 copy of each?

Altina would need Heavy Blade on her Sacred Seal slot. Keep in mind that you only have one Heavy Blade available as a Sacred Seal, so if you already have a good Galeforcer using it, I think it is better to build her as a Counter-Vantage unit instead.

20 minutes ago, TEKWRX said:

I haven't started building my Velouria yet, what are some skills to give her to get going?

If her partner is running Galeforce, Velouria might as well run Galeforce too.
Wolfpup Fang
Smite — Reposition
Galeforce
(Any A that boosts Atk/Spd)
Wings of Mercy
Def Smoke — Spd Smoke — Savage Blow
Flashing Blade
 

[TEKWRX]

Just now, XRay said:

Altina would need Heavy Blade on her Sacred Seal slot. Keep in mind that you only have one Heavy Blade available as a Sacred Seal, so if you already have a good Galeforcer using it, I think it is better to build her as a Counter-Vantage unit instead.

If her partner is running Galeforce, Velouria might as well run Galeforce too.
Wolfpup Fang
Smite — Reposition
Galeforce
(Any A that boosts Atk/Spd)
Wings of Mercy
Def Smoke — Spd Smoke — Savage Blow
Flashing Blade
 

Yes, I already put Heavy Blade 2 seal on her (will be upgraded to 3 next week). I do have a couple of galeforcers now, but none that I really use because they aren't that good yet (Cordelia, Cherche, & Mareeta), so the seal is available. But I will use Altina as a vantage unit to start and see how she does for me before I give her galeforce, but galeforce does seem like it would be fun on her. I'm curious to see how she does in PVP contect, because she is super OP in PvE (I have her and F!Tiki basically solo'ing the harder TT auto-battle runs)

Should I start building Velouria like you suggested if she's supporting a vantage unit? Should I start off with WoM, or give her Vantage as well? Since she doesn't come with a B skill, that's the first thing I want to give her (along with a movement assist) 

[XRay]

19 minutes ago, TEKWRX said:

Yes, I already put Heavy Blade 2 seal on her (will be upgraded to 3 next week). I do have a couple of galeforcers now, but none that I really use because they aren't that good yet (Cordelia, Cherche, & Mareeta), so the seal is available. But I will use Altina as a vantage unit to start and see how she does for me before I give her galeforce, but galeforce does seem like it would be fun on her. I'm curious to see how she does in PVP contect, because she is super OP in PvE (I have her and F!Tiki basically solo'ing the harder TT auto-battle runs)

Try to get that Heavy Blade to tier 3 as soon as possible. Unless you plan to take Altina to +10, also keep in mind that Cordelia and Cherche would have better offensive stats due to being easier to merge. And as @Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi mentioned, with stat disadvantage from low merges levels and low Fortress (O) levels, you might want to wait on investing in Galeforcers, and Altina might not be the best choice.

19 minutes ago, TEKWRX said:

Should I start building Velouria like you suggested if she's supporting a vantage unit? Should I start off with WoM, or give her Vantage as well? Since she doesn't come with a B skill, that's the first thing I want to give her (along with a movement assist) 

No. Velouria should not be supporting a Counter-Vantage unit except maybe Ares, Special Spiral Kronya, and Special Spiral Phina. Counter-Vantage units want Dancers/Singers as support units, they generally do not rely on Specials for damage with the aforementioned ones being the primary exceptions.

I would just have her Ally Support another Galeforcer in the meantime, such as Cherche. For Galeforcing purposes, Cherche is basically green Altina. Cherche also work well with Caeda and Clair, as those two do not need Heavy Blade as they got Flashing Blade on their Weapons.

Edited November 30, 2019 by XRay

[TEKWRX]

As far as giving Velouria some Atk in the A slot, would Brazen Atk/Def 3 be a good choice?  I have plenty of Ares copies to spare. I do have a B!Camilla I haven't merged yet so I could give her Atk/Spd Push 4, but Camilla has fodder that would be good on a lot of units so I'm unsure. I considered Fire Boost 3, but Velouria's HP is that high to begin with, and mine is -HP so that's no good.

 

Also, I played my first AR match with Altina tonight, and she did pretty good. Even with a -1 fort disadvantage. She just about swept the whole team herself. Duo Ephraim did take out 2 units though. His Duo skill is actually pretty helpful getting him to an out of reach enemy or aether pot quickly. I did lose F!Tiki and Nagi, but that was because I totally forgot about Surtur's 20 damage in 2 spaces thing because I usually just snipe him from a distance with Thraja. I could have played this map better, but it sorta worked out. 

[XRay]

3 hours ago, TEKWRX said:

As far as giving Velouria some Atk in the A slot, would Brazen Atk/Def 3 be a good choice?

The A slot for a nuke that is not slow should always be an A skill that boosts both Atk AND Spd. If you are running Velouria as a Galeforce unit, she also needs to run an A skill that is not dependent on HP because you might not always want to step on a Bolt Trap as a Galeforcer. The best A slot for a Galeforcer is either Life and Death or Swift Sparrow. Life and Death helps prevent Velouria from being doubled on Enemy Phase but makes her more vulnerable to being killed in one hit. While Swift Sparrow does not make Velouria as vulnerable to being killed in one shot, it also does not help her preventing doubles either.

I do not recommend Push skills for nukes in Aether Raids since those skills got an HP minimum requirement. Not caring about stepping on high level Bolt Traps or being blasted by a Bolt Tower (D) is an important advantage for Player Phase teams, so you do not want to run a Push skill to give up that advantage.

4 hours ago, TEKWRX said:

I considered Fire Boost 3, but Velouria's HP is that high to begin with, and mine is -HP so that's no good.

Boost skills suck. Do not ever use it. Defiant skills also suck, so do not use them either.

[TEKWRX]

I get what you're saying in regards to raising Spd and Atk, but I was just looking through the A skills that I have at the moment available as fodder. I've been buying orbs, but I'm definitely not a whale yet, lol. 

I do have an extra Nailah now though, and I was reading a lot of people give Velouria both DC and Null C-Disrupt. Good idea or no? If not, who is a better recipient of those two skills? 

[Usana]

@TEKWRX Brave Ike is definitely one of the premier candidates for DC/Null C-Disrupt. Don't have Vel so I can't speak for her. But a boost skill off 40 HP won't work all that well I wouldn't think. Better to just run Darting/Death Blow, whichever you need more of, until you get the premium fodder she truly desires. Or Life and Death or Fury. Those are always good staples.


For those that were keeping track of my woes. I have an update. It is definitely Brave Roy that is the biggest problem, even when he fails to punch through Brave Ike like that one time I talked about he has a habit of bypassing Ike to kill others with the help of dancers, empty maps, or even lunge combined with his galeforce. I seem to run into him every map now. I might actually have to give Brave Ike Guard or something instead of running Null-C. At least not all the maps I face him on are open. An obstructed map is fairly easy to force Roy into attacking only Ike unless he has lunge and that is rather rare. Which isn't too much of a problem. Haven't ran into another one that kills B!Ike anyways.

Edited November 30, 2019 by Usana

[XRay]

33 minutes ago, TEKWRX said:

I get what you're saying in regards to raising Spd and Atk, but I was just looking through the A skills that I have at the moment available as fodder. I've been buying orbs, but I'm definitely not a whale yet, lol. 

I would just wait until you get some Fury and Life and Death fodder. If you are pulling red, Hinata gives Fury. If you are pulling colorless, Sothe gives Live and Death.

34 minutes ago, TEKWRX said:

I do have an extra Nailah now though, and I was reading a lot of people give Velouria both DC and Null C-Disrupt. Good idea or no? If not, who is a better recipient of those two skills? 

The best user of Distant Counter-Null C-Disrupt would be BH!Ike in my opinion. Urvan makes BH!Ike super bulky, so you can dedicate the rest of his skill slots for offense rather than defense.
Urvan
Reposition — Swap
Moonbow — Ruptured Sky — Bonfire
Distant Counter
Null C-Disrupt
Atk Smoke — Pulse Smoke
Quick Riposte
His nature does not matter too much. +Atk gives him the best killing power while +HP gives him the best bulk, and +Spd is great too if you are using him as a super tank. +Res is also decent for countering some Blazing mages. +Def is not as good as other natures in my opinion but it is still pretty decent and definitely not bad. I think neutral is pretty decent too as it gives a slight boost to his HP, Atk, and Def.

[Landmaster]

1 hour ago, TEKWRX said:

I get what you're saying in regards to raising Spd and Atk, but I was just looking through the A skills that I have at the moment available as fodder. I've been buying orbs, but I'm definitely not a whale yet, lol. 

I do have an extra Nailah now though, and I was reading a lot of people give Velouria both DC and Null C-Disrupt. Good idea or no? If not, who is a better recipient of those two skills? 

Just wait until you have the available fodder. You have limited resources now, I wouldn't really recommend wasting any just to put a Skill on a unit. You may need it elsewhere later~ Once you are up in your Fort advantage, you can start really building Galeforcers~

As mentioned, B!Ike is going to be wanting DC and Null-C the most with his refined weapon~

[TEKWRX]

4 hours ago, Landmaster said:

Just wait until you have the available fodder. You have limited resources now, I wouldn't really recommend wasting any just to put a Skill on a unit. You may need it elsewhere later~ Once you are up in your Fort advantage, you can start really building Galeforcers~

As mentioned, B!Ike is going to be wanting DC and Null-C the most with his refined weapon~

Yeah, I know you're right. It's just hard trying to use a unit with an incomplete kit because it's hard to get a feel how good they're gonna be or if you enjoy using them. I'll hold onto the extra Nailah for now, but yeah I'm leaning towards B!Ike getting it once I have the dew for his refine. Anyway, I should be able to raise my fort another level next week thanks to one of the Black Friday packs giving me a bunch of aether stones.

Back to Velouria, looking through my barracks I realize I have an extra L!Lucina that I never merged.  Would Swift Sparrow 2 be better on Velouria compared to having a +1 Lucina (best IV I have is +Spd -Res), or just wait to put it on someone else? I also summoned 3x L!Julia during the current banner (2x +HP -Spd, 1 Neutral), so I do have Mirror Impact available. Is that a stronger fodder over Atk/Rest Oath 3?

[Landmaster]

4 minutes ago, TEKWRX said:

Yeah, I know you're right. It's just hard trying to use a unit with an incomplete kit because it's hard to get a feel how good they're gonna be or if you enjoy using them. I'll hold onto the extra Nailah for now, but yeah I'm leaning towards B!Ike getting it once I have the dew for his refine. Anyway, I should be able to raise my fort another level next week thanks to one of the Black Friday packs giving me a bunch of aether stones.

Back to Velouria, looking through my barracks I realize I have an extra L!Lucina that I never merged.  Would Swift Sparrow 2 be better on Velouria compared to having a +1 Lucina (best IV I have is +Spd -Res), or just wait to put it on someone else? I also summoned 3x L!Julia during the current banner (2x +HP -Spd, 1 Neutral), so I do have Mirror Impact available. Is that a stronger fodder over Atk/Rest Oath 3?

Unless you plan to +10 L!Lucina, you can give Swift Sparrow to Velouria (or another unit). You don't really need to merge Legendaries unless you want to seriously invest in them like for Arena and Aa or if you just like the character. You can usually do fine with one copy.

Yes, 100%, if you plan on foddering Julia, do it for Mirror Impact. Oath Skills are pretty situational and will rarely be the best choice for a C Slot unless you're specifically building around it.

[Usana]

@TEKWRX While some may disagree, I would say Mirror Impact is far more valuable than ATK/RES Oath. It is easy enough to duplicate the effect of Oaths through Tactics or the ilk. Mirror Impact's follow up denial is much harder to duplicate and it just gives more stats period. Admittedly it is in a much more contested slot and only works for one phase. But I would use her for Mirror Impact over ATK/RES Oath any day. However, there is no reason you can't use her for both at the same time. Get Mirror Strike 2 from a 4* Oliver and you can easily grab both at the Impact and Oath at the same time. So I would say it is a false dilemma unless you really don't want to burn an Oliver for fodder. Though this is assuming the unit in question wants an Oath. No reason to burn a Grail unit up if you don't plan to use Oaths.

Edited November 30, 2019 by Usana

[TEKWRX]

1 minute ago, Usana said:

@TEKWRX While some may disagree, I would say Mirror Impact is far more valuable than ATK/RES Oath. It is easy enough to duplicate the effect of Oaths through Tactics or the ilk. Mirror Impact's follow up denial is much harder to duplicate and it just gives more stats period. Admittedly it is in a much more contested slot and only works for one phase. But I would use her for Mirror Impact over ATK/RES Oath any day. However, there is no reason you can't use her for both at the same time. Get Mirror Strike 2 from a 4* Oliver and you can easily grab both at the Impact and Oath at the same time. So I would say it is a false dilemma unless you really don't want to burn an Oliver for fodder.

Thanks for the tip. I don't have any Oliver's yet, so I'd have to decide if it's worth the grails to pick him up for fodder when the time come to disperse those skills (probably not though).

And you know, when I was looking at Mirror Impact I was focused on the stat buffs, and I overlooked that it denies follow-ups. Yeah, that's a pretty good skill. But might not be optimal if using on a galeforcer, no?

[XRay]

14 minutes ago, TEKWRX said:

And you know, when I was looking at Mirror Impact I was focused on the stat buffs, and I overlooked that it denies follow-ups. Yeah, that's a pretty good skill. But might not be optimal if using on a galeforcer, no?

There are two types of Galeforcers. There is one type that relies on having high Spd and Desperation to avoid counter attacks so they can last indefinitely in theory, and another type relies on guaranteed follow up from skills and they have enough bulk to stomach several counter attacks before giving out.

Ones that rely on Desperation wants to use A skills that boost Atk/Spd. Ones that rely on guaranteed follow up would appreciate Impacts, but mostly for the Def or Res +10. Follow-Up denial is not that useful for Player Phase units in a player's hands because you want to make sure whatever enemy your nuke is attacking is dead by the second attack, so denying follow ups is kind of pointless.

Follow up denial is good in AI hands because the AI sucks and would attack anything in range, so follow up denial helps them last longer on a defense team.

The best Galeforcers for using Mirror Impact would be Tibarn, all the infantry and armor Ephraims, Edelgard, any Bold Fighter Galeforcers, and that is all I can think of right now. Mirror Impact helps balance their bulk so they do not immediately die to dragons and things like that. These Galeforcers generally just take counter attacks head on, so Impacts would be useful to keep them going longer.

[Landmaster]

38 minutes ago, TEKWRX said:

Thanks for the tip. I don't have any Oliver's yet, so I'd have to decide if it's worth the grails to pick him up for fodder when the time come to disperse those skills (probably not though).

And you know, when I was looking at Mirror Impact I was focused on the stat buffs, and I overlooked that it denies follow-ups. Yeah, that's a pretty good skill. But might not be optimal if using on a galeforcer, no?

I would go Sturdy Impact over Mirror Impact for Galeforce, since Mirror Impact would only be useful if you're initiating against a Dragon (or CC Mage). Which is not totally a bad deal, just situational. 

Usually Galeforcers want to be hit back in retaliation so Galeforce will proc. Impact Skills allow them extra bulk when they initiate so it can potentially help them stay alive and stop Vengeful Fighter, QR, or guarenteed follow-ups they may run into.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I'm starting to think my Tibarn is a better hit-and-runner than a straight Galeforce sweeper. It's rare that I find a situation where the stats line up where he kills something in two hits and takes enough damage to let Velouria and my WoM Eir drop in for follow-up kills. However, I just dismantled a Flyer Ball by having him poke Cherche, then Galeforce away (and subsequently Respositioned by Velouria, though their Yune still got to take a potshot at her after Reyson's Sing). Once the formation started breaking up, I was able to get picks on stuff (the initiation onto Cherche with 84 effective Atk and the guaranteed double didn't kill her...), which caused stuff to eventually fall apart. 58-Def Est (her base was 28) is pretty dumb.

On the ARD side, I was attacked by a... DC-Windsweep Leanne. With a massive 41 Atk. I feel like if someone wants to give Leanne favouratism, there are better skill options out there.

[Anacybele]

I wound up having a few deaths the past couple days myself. Ugh. And now I realize if I hadn't, I might've made tier 21. I'm looking to end up rather close. Oh well, maybe next time. It's still not my main goal here anyhow.