If you could change 5 things about FEH

[Lewyn]

I mean that's kind of the other thing.  Reinhardt is a piece of paper that dies easy player phase to most units always has, his only power is when you wanted to bait him and even then it wasn't a big deal.  Surtr meanwhile either phase is a near unkillable monster unless you take multiple turns.  

Edited December 22, 2018 by Lewyn

[XRay]

2 hours ago, Lewyn said:

Also giving up the valuable B slot for axebreaker is pretty garbage.  One doesn't need it for other axe units, so one is using that B skill just for a single unit.

B slots are valuable, but we also have enough team slots available to afford it. Aether Raids teams have 5 slots and you can create up to 5 different teams to counter pick your enemies to some degree. Veteran players who built a performance based 3 member Arena core should have no problem plugging in the 4th unit to have 100% coverage against enemies. And if that does not solve it, you can build a counter unit of each color with colorless Firesweeping whatever your colored counters cannot handle and you still have the fifth team left over to mess around with.

[Arcphoenix]

Just my opinion, but Reinhardt was nowhere near as bad as Surtr. If you brought along a Reinhardt/Brave Lyn check (a Gronraven+ TA mage or Michaiah) you could bait Reinhardt into his own demise (often in one round) and then proceed to handle the other enemies. Enemies that you can bait are usually a lot more clean to handle compared to those that you must attack several times in player phase and constantly have a death zone around them. To kill Surtr you need 1.) A check, 2.) enough turns to handle him, 3.) Not be dealing with other enemies, 4.) Room to move around in and a reposition unit OR a dancer (Since Wary fighter means it's going to take more than one round to kill him).

Edited December 22, 2018 by Arcphoenix

[The_antithesis]

1) Have a practice mode for Aether Raids and Arena that doesn't use up resources. YOu would also be able to fight your friends with this.

2) Remove legendary/mythic heroes and blessings.

3) Make it so only Brave Heroes have inflated BST, all other units would be reined in.

4) Allow a way for new players to access previously time-limited content.

5) Give the characters more backstory with each hero having a 3-level paralogue that promotes them to 6* that unlocks upon obtaining a 5* version of said unit. 6* units would not be attainable by any other means.

[Tolvir]

Change the entire way chapters work. Make them longer, give them more content, make them more indepth. Something more akin to FGO than FEH. Itll both help the story flesh itself out more, and give a lot of new content for players to enjoy.

Make events actual events. Talking entire new chapters available at a limited time, free character available through them like now, but making 4 extra copies of them able to be received rather than 2, actual quests to work on. Again, kind of copying FGO, but FGO has a really good event format that FEH could benefit from. This would extend not just to seasonals, but some of our weirder banners as well. For example, Adrift would have been a full event complete with an entire story around it and everything, something I think would have made the banner go over better. It also would let FEH be a bit more creative and give us an avenue where alts arent just a quick money grab, but also an opportunity to tell an interesting story.

Remove PvP. Arena and Aether Raids are gone, PvP honestly does not belong in a gacha. Its only begging for troubles, and I guarantee its the reason we havent seen certain balance and QoL changes the game desperately needs in order to keep the PvP side a whale baiting machine. Removing the cancer that plagues this game would open up for a lot more.

To fill the void of PvP being removed, two new game modes are added. Aether Raids is now changed to a survival style game mode, where players customize the map in which they have to survive, and see how many rounds they can last against increasingly difficult enemies. The game mode currency wise would be almost identical, scoring system would better reflect the new style though. Resets weekly for rewards, the same rewards as grails. Grails have also been changed, character copies cost less, and the amount of grails received have been significantly increased. Having to wait 2 years to +10 a unit is the dumbest "fix" I have ever seen in a game.

Arena has been replaced with the Rift. Lorewise this is a place where the Order of Heroes locks away the most dangerous summons or creatures that they have come across. This is essentially a raid. Each week a new enemy is used, whether it be an OC creature, a creature that we have seen before such as somekind of Faceless, or even a known enemy we have encountered in the series. Players all fight this creature together, each player leading the charge in their own fight. These enemies are very difficult, and you only get so many tries a day based on the stamina system that is given for this mode. Each win against the enemy, counts towards the total, and the goal is to try and get to the total amount of defeats by the end of the week. There are increasing amount of rewards for participation and how much the player helped in the "raid". Players get to bring in one guest character from their friends list each fight for bonus points for both them, and said owner of the character.

And for the final change, SI has been removed. No longer does a character get used to give away a skill. Instead, as a character is used, they give scrolls. These scrolls are copies of their skills, and can be grinded to gain multiple. but only so many can be received from one character. Merging a character refreshes the amount, and new copies of the character can give their own as well. This will both make giving out skills a little more difficult, making the base kit of the characters more important and keeping their relevance if you will. No longer will there be a situation like Brave Celica where a character becomes more fodder than an actual character someone considers using.

To account for this change, older characters with lesser toolkits now receive an updated toolkit with new skills or refined version of old skills. Of course this wont make very single character viable, thats impossible, but itll give a lot of characters more use than what they had before.

[XRay]

3 hours ago, Tolvir said:

Remove PvP. Arena and Aether Raids are gone, PvP honestly does not belong in a gacha. Its only begging for troubles, and I guarantee its the reason we havent seen certain balance and QoL changes the game desperately needs in order to keep the PvP side a whale baiting machine. Removing the cancer that plagues this game would open up for a lot more.

A gacha game needs whales to survive, and removing PvP makes players less incentivized to +10 their Heroes. I personally would just make the Orb and Grail rewards be participation based instead of performance based, so whales still have a reason to +10 their units to get more Feathers and Aether Stones, while more casual players are not missing out on anything important if they do not want to deal with the meta.

3 hours ago, Tolvir said:

Aether Raids is now changed to a survival style game mode, where players customize the map in which they have to survive, and see how many rounds they can last against increasingly difficult enemies.

That was the first Relay Defense and it is widely despised by many players. Enemy units have 5*+30 stats and enemies in the first Relay Defense have close to 100 HP.

3 hours ago, Tolvir said:

This will both make giving out skills a little more difficult, making the base kit of the characters more important and keeping their relevance if you will. No longer will there be a situation like Brave Celica where a character becomes more fodder than an actual character someone considers using.

This makes giving out skills a lot easier and units like AOTB!Celica will still be benched because there are so many better options out there.

Grinding has never been a huge issue outside of the first few Tempest Trials. Players will just auto battle with the character to get scrolls, and we already do that for SP via Special Training Maps.

Since each copy of the character can give out multiple copies of really good skills, this significantly reduces incentive for players to spend money on the game as fodder can be used multiple times. It is great for players, but it would be detrimental to game revenue.

[Shiki]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

A gacha game needs whales to survive, and removing PvP makes players less incentivized to +10 their Heroes.

Yet games like GBF, FGO and now DL have no PvP, yet they generate as much if not even more revenue than FEH.

So no, you're very much mistaken that PvP is a necessity to bait whales. If anything it tends to be one of the most polarizing aspect for Gacha games because of constant powercreep (as we can very much see throughout 2018). SMT Dx2 is another example of this where people can't even PvP properly without having specific demons.

Unless you mean FEH has nothing else to offer in which case we have found the problem, no?

[XRay]

3 minutes ago, Magus of Memery said:

Yet games like GBF, FGO and now DL have no PvP, yet they generate as much if not even more revenue than FEH.

So no, you're very much mistaken that PvP is a necessity to bait whales. If anything it tends to be one of the most polarizing aspect for Gacha games because of constant powercreep (as we can very much see throughout 2018). SMT Dx2 is another example of this where people can't even PvP properly without having specific demons.

I have not played those other gacha games, but having PvP creates a demand for stronger units. Without PvP, there would be less demand for stronger units as PvE content can be solved with little effort by copying strategy videos.

I am pretty sure most gacha games have power creep, even the ones you listed. The rate of power creep in Heroes might be faster, but nukes released in the first year are still viable in the current meta. In my opinion, as a Player Phase player, the rate of power creep is pretty reasonable. Blade tomes, Brave Bow, and Firesweep Bow are still some of the best Player Phase Weapons in the game; they are so good that a unit's stat distribution and nature honestly does not matter too much with the right team and support.

6 minutes ago, Magus of Memery said:

Unless you mean FEH has nothing else to offer in which case we have found the problem, no?

In that case, PvP should be kept, not replaced.

[Shiki]

8 hours ago, XRay said:

I have not played those other gacha games, but having PvP creates a demand for stronger units. Without PvP, there would be less demand for stronger units as PvE content can be solved with little effort by copying strategy videos.

I am pretty sure most gacha games have power creep, even the ones you listed. The rate of power creep in Heroes might be faster, but nukes released in the first year are still viable in the current meta. In my opinion, as a Player Phase player, the rate of power creep is pretty reasonable. Blade tomes, Brave Bow, and Firesweep Bow are still some of the best Player Phase Weapons in the game; they are so good that a unit's stat distribution and nature honestly does not matter too much with the right team and support

>didn't play other gacha games.
>blindly assumes powercreep in them.
Pick one.

You're assuming that everyone is going to copy the same strategy once someone clears the content. There will be one or two idiots who do that but I'm pretty sure people want to play their games, not wait for someone else to do it for them.
It hardly distracts from the actual gacha though. Again, the examples I gave are swimming in money without PvP and except GBF most of the PvE content can be solved with low-rarity characters. Even then the rewards from clearing such challenge quests isn't worth it to invest highly in the next cheat button.

The whole collector aspect and "waifu" (for the lack of a better word) is a far stronger magnet than you think. That's where the bulk of money comes from. There are enough whales out there who go for multiple copies of a SSR dragon or NP5 on limited SSRs despite having no need for such investment.

It's not like powercreep is what whales want either. If anything do it enough times and they will leave the game because they cannot be bothered to throw their entire savings for the next "best" unit every next focus.

8 hours ago, XRay said:

In that case, PvP should be kept, not replaced.

Or you know, make actual content that anyone can enjoy instead of feeding the super whales. For a franchise that has hundreds of characters and 15 games to look back to, having only PvP as the long-term goal is quite pathetic.
Not saying PvP should be entirely abolished but they really need to take their focus of it.

[Arcphoenix]

IMO, PVP makes for great post-game content. It gives players something to do that's constantly a fair, challenging, and fresh experience with each battle while the developers are working on new content. Whatever battles you do in Arena and Aether Raids were also put together by a human and not just something randomly put together that may not even be a challenge at all (Training Tower).  In a way, the developers are letting players give eachother things to do that are actually fresh with each battle and challenging while they make new maps. That's just my opinion though

Edited December 30, 2018 by Arcphoenix

[redlight]

17 minutes ago, Arcphoenix said:

IMO, PVP makes for great post-game content. It gives players something to do that's constantly a fair, challenging, and fresh experience with each battle while the developers are working on new content. Whatever battles you do in Arena and Aether Raids were also put together by a human and not just something randomly put together that may not even be a challenge at all (Training Tower).  In a way, the developers are letting players give eachother things to do that are actually fresh with each battle and challenging while they make new maps. That's just my opinion though

Problem with PvP is that there's a meta the playerbase is aware of. Not many people will be a gentleman and not play anything that isn't the most busted unit. In Yu-gi-oh this year there was such a case. A great deal of people used the most degenerate ways to win. Reincarnation Droll (3-card combo that took your opponents entire hand), Knightmare extra-link (you literally couldn't do anything your turn despite having cards in your hand, there were several "floodgates" that prevented you from playing a combo deck such as not being able to special summon from the extra deck), Gumblar hand loop (you lost your entire hand), etc.

[XRay]

6 hours ago, Magus of Memery said:

>didn't play other gacha games.
>blindly assumes powercreep in them.
Pick one.

A simple Google search tells me that there is power creep in Fate Grand Order and Grand Blue Fantasy. Nothing came up for Shin Megami Tensei: Liberation Dx2, so I am assuming the game is still too new to tell. Dragalia Lost just got released so I do not think power creep is there yet, but there is power creep in Shadowverse, another game by Cygames.

6 hours ago, Magus of Memery said:

You're assuming that everyone is going to copy the same strategy once someone clears the content. There will be one or two idiots who do that but I'm pretty sure people want to play their games, not wait for someone else to do it for them.

If players want rewards on time, players will copy strategy videos. Not everyone got access to a flier team or whatever team they prefer, to easily clear Infernal and Abyssal content.

6 hours ago, Magus of Memery said:

It hardly distracts from the actual gacha though. Again, the examples I gave are swimming in money without PvP and except GBF most of the PvE content can be solved with low-rarity characters. Even then the rewards from clearing such challenge quests isn't worth it to invest highly in the next cheat button.

The whole collector aspect and "waifu" (for the lack of a better word) is a far stronger magnet than you think. That's where the bulk of money comes from. There are enough whales out there who go for multiple copies of a SSR dragon or NP5 on limited SSRs despite having no need for such investment.

It's not like powercreep is what whales want either. If anything do it enough times and they will leave the game because they cannot be bothered to throw their entire savings for the next "best" unit every next focus.

Heroes was built with PvP in mind. While I do not have concrete evidence or data, removing PvP will create less demand for stronger units, and I think that would lead to lower revenue due to players pulling for less copies for merging.

Just because waifus may have a stronger impact on revenue does not mean Intelligent Systems should skip out on ways to make even more money. If they did that, they would be irresponsible to their shareholders for not utilizing their assets efficiently to generate revenue.

No player wants power creep, but power creep in moderation helps improve a game's revenue in my opinion, and Heroes current rate of power creep is fine. On the Player Phase side of things, flying archers and Ophelia did not creep archers and mages so bad that it made previous Heroes pointless. I am not great at using Enemy Phase units, but as a Player Phase player facing against newly released Enemy Phase units in the AI's hands, they are still just as pathetic as older Enemy Phase units; any Enemy Phase non-armor units are still just as squishy, while armor units are so pathetically slow that they pose little to no threat.

6 hours ago, Magus of Memery said:

Or you know, make actual content that anyone can enjoy instead of feeding the super whales. For a franchise that has hundreds of characters and 15 games to look back to, having only PvP as the long-term goal is quite pathetic.

They do make non PvP content. Tap Battle, Forging Bonds, Tactics Drills, Rival Domains, etc. are all content released this year. I want them to make more content too, but I doubt we are going to get much more content than that unless the development team class change to mages or something.

4 hours ago, silveraura25 said:

Problem with PvP is that there's a meta the playerbase is aware of. Not many people will be a gentleman and not play anything that isn't the most busted unit. In Yu-gi-oh this year there was such a case. A great deal of people used the most degenerate ways to win. Reincarnation Droll (3-card combo that took your opponents entire hand), Knightmare extra-link (you literally couldn't do anything your turn despite having cards in your hand, there were several "floodgates" that prevented you from playing a combo deck such as not being able to special summon from the extra deck), Gumblar hand loop (you lost your entire hand), etc.

Maybe I am just being petty, but if players with less skill than me can score better than me for no reason other than due to scoring crap, I rather have busted units in the meta game to make their life as difficult as possible.

Edited December 30, 2018 by XRay

[Shiki]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

A simple Google search tells me that there is power creep in Fate Grand Order and Grand Blue Fantasy. Nothing came up for Shin Megami Tensei: Liberation Dx2, so I am assuming the game is still too new to tell. Dragalia Lost just got released so I do not think power creep is there yet, but there is power creep in Shadowverse, another game by Cygames.

How did you manage to find the word "powercreep" for FGO but nothing for Dx2? That game in particular has tons of powercreep because it has an Arena mode like FEH and new Demons are very impactful for new Fusions.

My first search results how FGO largely manages avoid powercreep AND be able to sell new Servants to the masses; for 4 years now. With over 2 billion dollar revenue that speaks for itself (FEH wouldn't come even close with its current revenue per year).

For GBF and DL; the former has powercreep and the latter isn't that old but that isn't my main point. Powercreep there isn't forcing players to pull for new characters. They are pulling for them because they are interesting on their own (be it through personal stories or otherwise).

1 hour ago, XRay said:

If players want rewards on time, players will copy strategy videos. Not everyone got access to a flier team or whatever team they prefer, to easily clear Infernal and Abyssal content.

You get around a week for each GHB/BHB and there are enough reruns to clear it. Heck, we even got GHB rotations now so either they're not trying or just lazy. Quite frankly that minority doesn't matter and I highly doubt any whales are among them (considering their investments to the game).
Besides, FEH has tons F2P clears on Youtube, so either way you don't need a shiny new unit to clear the PvE content in the first place. Even Abyssal maps have F2P clears if you're that desperate for a golden accessory.

1 hour ago, XRay said:

While I do not have concrete evidence or data, removing PvP will create less demand for stronger units, and I think that would lead to lower revenue due to players pulling for less copies for merging.

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Just because waifus may have a stronger impact on revenue does not mean Intelligent Systems should skip out on ways to make even more money. If they did that, they would be irresponsible to their shareholders for not utilizing their assets efficiently to generate revenue.

Do you really think the majority of people focus on PvP, especially after their awful changes to these modes? I wouldn't be surprised if a survey would result in PvP viability being the least important reason for people pulling on banners.
It certainly doesn't make sense to upset your fanbase with powercreep instead since that is where most of your money coming from.

Also, your last sentence is hilarious. If IS used their assets efficiently they wouldn't get this much flak from their fanbase during these last months.

1 hour ago, XRay said:

No player wants power creep, but power creep in moderation helps improve a game's revenue in my opinion, and Heroes current rate of power creep is fine.

Powercreep can also mean decline and the term "moderation" doesn't really exist for it in the first place due to its nature. Just searching for gacha powercreep in general there is a lot of criticism for most PvP gachas (searches give me FFBE and DB Legends for example).
It's a lazy method for earning cash and its side effect is dissatisfaction of every player, not only from F2P and small fishes. While revenue is obviously important you can't just make your greed blatantly obvious. Even whales won't take their bait anymore.
And powercreep imo conveys that they have no confidence in their product otherwise which begs the question why they aren't attempting other ways to make them interesting. The best example of this is the atrocious Thracia banner.

That being said:

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Heroes was built with PvP in mind.

which is sadly true (first apparent from SI) but that's exactly why IS needs to do something about it. Their PvP right now is garbage and constant powercreep won't solve it in any fathomable way. If they can't change it to a satisfactory outcome then they have to find something else.

1 hour ago, XRay said:

unless the development team class change to mages or something.

Well, someone could try to be their Ramsay Bolton. That tends to work very quickly.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Magus of Memery

[XRay]

48 minutes ago, Magus of Memery said:

My first search results how FGO largely manages avoid powercreep AND be able to sell new Servants to the masses; for 4 years now. With over 2 billion dollar revenue that speaks for itself (and FEH wouldn't even come close with its current revenue per year).

The Reddit comments says there are power creep.

Here is another one on Reddit.

And here is another one .

I searched "power creep in fgo" on Google and those three results are all at the top of search results.

4 minutes ago, Magus of Memery said:

Powercreep there isn't forcing players to pull for new characters

Power creep will always have an impact on demand. Denying that is like saying customers would not pay more for quality.

7 minutes ago, Magus of Memery said:

You get around a week for each GHB/BHB and there are enough reruns to clear it. Heck, we even got GHB rotations now so either you're not trying or being just lazy. Quite frankly that minority doesn't matter and I highly doubt any whales are among them.
Besides FEH has tons F2P clears on Youtube, so either way you don't need a shiny new unit to clear the PvE content in the first place. Even Abyssal maps have F2P clears if you're that desperate for a golden accessory.

I am not spending an hour figuring out Abyssal content when I am tired and have other things to prioritize. Not everyone has the free time to stay home all day just to figure out a solution for every Abyssal map. I have the luxury now to spend 1 or 2 hours clearing every single Abyssal map since I am unemployed, but fuck that when I get a job.

16 minutes ago, Magus of Memery said:

Do you really think the majority of people focus on PvP, especially after their awful changes to these modes? I wouldn't be surprised if a survey would result in PvP viability being the least important reason for people pulling on banners.

Not all players will focus on PvP. That is not the point. The point is that having PvP increases demand for merges and players who are competitive will be incentivized to spend money.

34 minutes ago, Magus of Memery said:

Also, your last sentence is hilarious. If IS used their assets efficiently they wouldn't get this much flak from their fanbase during these last months.

Intelligent System's assets do not belong to the fanbase, it ultimately belongs to the shareholders. Those assets should be used to benefit the shareholders; benefiting customers is a secondary concern.

1 hour ago, Magus of Memery said:

Powercreep can also mean decline and the term "moderation" doesn't really exist for it in the first place. Just searching for gacha powercreep there are a lot of loud voices for most PvP gachas (searches give me FFBE and DB Legends for example).
It's a lazy method for earning cash and its side effect is dissatisfaction of every player, not only from F2P and small fishes. While revenue is obviously important you can't just shove it aside for everything else and make your greed blatantly obvious. Even whales won't take their bait anymore.

Lots of gacha games have power creep and they make money. Absolutist statements like that oversimplifies and takes a very narrow view of things.

I generally do not like power creep either, but as long as the power creep is just creeping and not running, I am willing to go along with their decision to include power creep. Allowing moderate amounts of power creep also makes it easier for game developers as there is no huge pressure to make everything balanced, and it also gives them a little more creative room to come up with things like Missiletainn and Special Spiral, which is bonkers when used in combination. Despite those two skills raising the Player Phase ceiling to stupid high levels, there was little outrage if at all, while Surtr had players crying power creep while he is raising jack shit because Enemy Phase/mixed phase ceiling was already raised with dragon armors.

2 hours ago, Magus of Memery said:

And you're not helping if you buy those bundles btw.

I am not 100% satisfied with the PvP status quo, but it is in a bearable state, although just barely. I want a PvP mode based on performance without the BST bull crap, and Aether Raids has largely delivered on that except for Mythic Heroes, but I will figure out a way to deal with that. The Mythic Heroes thing also is not a huge deal after reaching Tier 21 since I am not competing for the Gold Throne, so it is only a temporary thing I need to bear with.

I am happy with most of the rest of the game.

The amount of content is fine. There is more than enough content to satisfy me with PvP, Events, and Special Maps all going on.

While I still want more Barracks space, it is not as bad as it used to be since fodder do not take up space anymore as they can be stored as Combat Manuals.

They made Tempest Trials, Forging Bonds, and obtaining SP less grindy.

They removed a lot of pity breakers from the 5* pool.

They allow extra copies of limited Heroes to be obtained via Grails.

They will implement Flaw elimination with merges.

They will release beast units.

They axed Relay Defense.

It would be great to have a better written story, but I honestly do not care if it is good or bad. As long as the story has a beginning, middle, end, protagonist, antagonist, and conflict, it is good enough for me.

I do not care what my Heroes look like, so I am fine with alts and waifus; if they are adorable and cute like NYOFAI!Laevatein and HATF!Sharena then that is great, if not, then that is also fine. I mostly care about collecting Special Heroes and Dancers/Singers.

[Shiki]

25 minutes ago, XRay said:

The Reddit comments says there are power creep.

Here is another one on Reddit.

And here is another one .

I searched "power creep in fgo" on Google and those three results are all at the top of search results.

Link 2 and 3 are about Artoria (a launch SSR) who just got a Strengthening Quest this year (which is a form of update).
If you want to give a damn about tier lists for this game (which you shouldn't); she made a big jump on the scale for farming quests because of it. Never mind that she was an underwhelming Servant from the start.
Even Link 1 has either only Artoria comments or don't specify what exactly the powercreep is. If anything most of them even agree that it doesn't matter.

28 minutes ago, XRay said:

Power creep will always have an impact on demand. Denying that is like saying customers would not pay more for quality.

Comparing power creep with quality doesn't make sense if said power creep can be poorly received, which is a decline of quality.

29 minutes ago, XRay said:

I am not spending an hour figuring out Abyssal content when I am tired and have other things to prioritize. Not everyone has the free time to stay home all day just to figure out a solution for every Abyssal map. I have the luxury now to spend 1 or 2 hours clearing every single Abyssal map since I am unemployed, but fuck that when I get a job.

1 hour dispersed over a week. That's about 9 minutes per day. It doesn't have anything to do with staying at home or being employed or not. Heck, people find time to play grindy gachas like FGO or DL despite having full-time employment, while none of FEH content take that much time.
Having an overpowered character doesn't change your time commitment either, you still have to figure out the map with your new toy (+ the time to train said unit).

32 minutes ago, XRay said:

Intelligent System's assets do not belong to the fanbase, it ultimately belongs to the shareholders. Those assets should be used to benefit the shareholders; benefiting customers is a secondary concern.

If IS keeps this up, nobody will benefit in the long run. You can't benefit your shareholders if you don't have customers.

33 minutes ago, XRay said:

Lots of gacha games have power creep and they make money. Absolutist statements like that oversimplifies and takes a very narrow view of things.

41 minutes ago, XRay said:

I generally do not like power creep either, but as long as the power creep is just creeping and not running, I am willing to go along with their decision to include power creep

The fact that you think power creep is fine means we're not going to see eye-to-eye. Well, I will enjoy the train crash, when it happens because 2019 seems like very much what you envision: More powercreep and more greed, just what we wanted.

[XRay]

11 minutes ago, Magus of Memery said:

Even Link 1 has either only Artoria comments or don't specify what exactly the powercreep is. If anything most of them even agree that it doesn't matter.

Power creep happens when a performance ceiling is raised. If Artoria or another Servant is the best farming Servant (the ceiling) and she or another Servant becomes even better at farming (ceiling moved up), that is power creep. If power creep is okay in Grand Order, why is power creep not okay in Heroes or in games with PvP content?

Ophelia is power creep and I do not recall anyone being outraged, while the release of Surtr got players pissed off even though he is subpar at best with his stalling default kit.

3 minutes ago, Magus of Memery said:

1 hour dispersed over a week. That's about 9 minutes per day. It doesn't have anything to do with staying at home or being employed or not. Heck, people find time to play grindy gachas like FGO or DL despite having full-time employment, while none of FEH content take that much time.

A short session here and there is not going to help me. I need time to concentrate in one or two sessions.

5 minutes ago, Magus of Memery said:

Having an overpowered character doesn't change your time commitment either, you still have to figure out the map with your new toy (+ the time to train said unit).

It is much easier to solve a map when you have highly merged units. Having a glass cannon that does not shatter after one hit can be the difference between clearing the map and spending an additional 30 minutes to figure out another way to the clear the map.

Training time is a non issue since you can just auto battle in Special Training maps.

42 minutes ago, Magus of Memery said:

If IS keeps this up, nobody will benefit in the long run. You can't benefit your shareholders if you don't have customers.

Outside of PvP, the only major thing that people have issues with are representation issues with the cast. They are already working on better representation for Binding Blade and Radiant Dawn since they went through a whole spiel about it on the Notification board. They will also probably do something about alts and the gender ratio as they usually go hand in hand with game representation.

[Shiki]

1 minute ago, XRay said:

Power creep happens when a performance ceiling is raised. If Artoria or another Servant is the best farming Servant (the ceiling) and she or another Servant becomes even better at farming (ceiling moved up), that is power creep. If power creep is okay in Grand Order, why is power creep not okay in Heroes or in games with PvP content?

Quote

The situation where updates to a game introduce more powerful units or abilities, leaving the older ones underpowered.

That's the case in FEH where Adrift Corrin ended up being straight upgrade over Kana (F) to name a recent example.
Artoria didn't get so much better that she suddenly became the best in farming and leaving the other SSR Sabers behind. If anything she was brought in line with another similar Saber but she didn't just up and usurp her niches.

3 minutes ago, XRay said:

A short session here and there is not going to help me. I need time to concentrate in one or two sessions.

So ... just do it after work, if you lie in your bed? Take a day or two if you have to? C'mon, man.

4 minutes ago, XRay said:

It is much easier to solve a map when you have highly merged units. Having a glass cannon that does not shatter after one hit can be the difference between clearing the map and spending an additional 30 minutes to figure out another way to the clear the map.

That seems like a gross overgeneralization. You can clear some of these Abyssal maps being hyper offensive.
Sure, the Azura LHB speaks against such an approach but that's a perfect example where powercreep plays against you (because screw Gray Waves).

[XRay]

2 minutes ago, Magus of Memery said:

That's the case in FEH where Adrift Corrin ended up being straight upgrade over Kana (F) to name a recent example.

A!F!Corrin is straight upgrade over F!Kana, but she is not power creep. Armor units got the role as the best Enemy Phase/mixed phase units for quite a while now.

5 minutes ago, Magus of Memery said:

So ... just do it after work, if you lie in your bed? Take a day or two if you have to? C'mon, man.

I have better things to do. Work can be stressful enough. I am not dealing with bullshit again at home right before I go to bed.

8 minutes ago, Magus of Memery said:

That seems like a gross overgeneralization. You can clear some of these Abyssal maps being hyper offensive.
Sure, the Azura LHB speaks against such an approach but that's a perfect example where powercreep plays against you (because screw Gray Waves).

I do clear Abyssal content with hyper offense teams, but having an NS!F!Corrin +10 being able to take a hit and not die means that I do not have to find a new way to solve a map.

[Baldrick]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

I have better things to do. Work can be stressful enough. I am not dealing with bullshit again at home right before I go to bed.

You really shouldn't have to defend your schedule to anonymous strangers on the internet.

 

Anyway, I see no reason to remove PvP, even if it's not balanced or whatever. It doesn't hurt anyone's experience by existing.

[MilodicMellodi]

Why would IS remove PvP from the game? They created skills specifically for it, on units that were probably gotten by most people for the sole reason of foddering them for the skills.

Try telling the thousands of players that the money they very likely spent on Legendary!Azura, Laegjarn, Loki, and Helbindi was completely wasted. Try telling the people that the effort they put into getting in Grand Summoner tier in Arena was all for nothing. See how well that goes.

It doesn't matter whether FEH was truly made for PvP or not. They put it in, and they're not going to remove it because one or a few people want FEH to be like some other random generic Gachas.

Edited December 31, 2018 by MilodicMellodi

[DraceEmpressa]

TBH what should be removed from FEH isn't the PVP content. What should be removed is the risk of losing  in PVP contents, that should be kept to all tiers instead of just as high as tier 11 AR and tier 8 in Arena. That way,  whales can still show their superiority while minnows still can make the way up even if slowly. 

[XRay]

5 hours ago, DraceEmpressa said:

TBH what should be removed from FEH isn't the PVP content. What should be removed is the risk of losing  in PVP contents, that should be kept to all tiers instead of just as high as tier 11 AR and tier 8 in Arena. That way,  whales can still show their superiority while minnows still can make the way up even if slowly. 

Yeah, this is the best option in my opinion. Whales can still compete for resources like Hero Feathers and Aether Stones, but the big rewards like Grails and Orbs should be based on participation rather than performance, as lower ranking players need Orbs and Grails much more than higher ranking players since they have usually have a smaller and more limited Barracks.

[Midnox]

On 12/30/2018 at 7:45 PM, Baldrick said:

You really shouldn't have to defend your schedule to anonymous strangers on the internet.

 

Anyway, I see no reason to remove PvP, even if it's not balanced or whatever. It doesn't hurt anyone's experience by existing.

PVP is far from my favorite mode, but I can just play enough to gain an extra orb or two