Mythic Hero candidates

[Kaden]

I get the feeling Loki might end up as a mystic hero one day if the developers go down that path with her.

[omegaxis1]

9 hours ago, Jotari said:

Her only other options were to let her emotions run wild or destroy herself. She was caught between a rock and a hard place by being a fallible being.

Not if she had the power to revive the dead. Clearly, in the end, she doesn't, otherwise, she'd have done it. If she loved life in such a manner and their death was painful for her, she would have revived them if she had the power. She didn't, ergo, she couldn't. Even Sephiran being revived wasn't even Yune's power, but Micaiah's.

9 hours ago, Jotari said:

Let's assume the Abrahamic god that created the universe is real. My parents still conceived me. Does that mean I am not a product of god? Ashunera made the ancestors of the Zunanma so yes she created them in the same way everything of our universe could be said to be a product of the creator deity. If you create the components of something, then you created the arranged version of those components. Like the s simile Hardin used above about someone assembling a robot versus someone who designed and manufactured one. That's the whole issue. Ashunera is suggested to have been able to make the components of existence while Naga, Idoun, Nergal, Grima, Silque etc can only alter existing things. This goes as far as making inearth matter living, but it's still not the power of creation (or as Naga terms it, Making).

No they haven't. No other entity in the Fire Emblem verse created life when it didn't exist before as a fundamental concept. Maybe Ashunera didn't do that too, say if she physically gave birth to all the trees and stuff hence she's not actually a life form on a different divinity level or if she created them by arranging molecules in organic compound arrays, but the game obviously (and shouldn't) go into that level of detail.

Ultimately what we're left with is the original question. What makes Ashunera more of a God than Naga.

The Answer, Ashunera created life. Not just a life form or group of life forms, but all life in existence in Tellius. How exactly she did it? Unknown. Maybe it was Ex Nilho, maybe it was Asexual Reproduction. Maybe she lied and Anna created all life. We don't know for Ashunera's case. What we do know is that Naga can't create Ex Nilho and by her own metric that means she's not a god.

2

That's a matter on whether the spirits that exist were already there or not. As I said, spirits can very well be primitive souls that merely exist. Nothing suggests that Ashunera truly created life itself from nothing, but rather created a shell like the Morphs and War Dragon, which housed a spirit. The concept of Ashunera's creation of life was never explored, only that it happened. But given how Ashunera is neither omnipotent or omniscient, her abilities are left to being rather mundane. 

In fact, this goes onto something else. If Naga claims to not have the power of making or unmaking, Ashunera, despite wanting the beorc and laguz to stop fighting, rather than her emotional outburst "unmaking" her created life forms, she ended up moving the waters to cause the Great Flood. That means that Ashunera has never "unmade" anything, but just moved what is already there.

Ashera herself never displayed the power to create something from nothing. 

So ultimately, Ashunera being a goddess is one thing, but she never truly displayed the power of making and unmaking, even with her counterparts, but rather it was just said that she created life. But the power of making and unmaking would fall under the factor of omnipotence, which was never truly displayed, so I don't feel it was actually Ex Nihilo. 

[Jotari]

23 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Not if she had the power to revive the dead. Clearly, in the end, she doesn't, otherwise, she'd have done it. If she loved life in such a manner and their death was painful for her, she would have revived them if she had the power. She didn't, ergo, she couldn't. Even Sephiran being revived wasn't even Yune's power, but Micaiah's.

That's a matter on whether the spirits that exist were already there or not. As I said, spirits can very well be primitive souls that merely exist. Nothing suggests that Ashunera truly created life itself from nothing, but rather created a shell like the Morphs and War Dragon, which housed a spirit. The concept of Ashunera's creation of life was never explored, only that it happened. But given how Ashunera is neither omnipotent or omniscient, her abilities are left to being rather mundane. 

In fact, this goes onto something else. If Naga claims to not have the power of making or unmaking, Ashunera, despite wanting the beorc and laguz to stop fighting, rather than her emotional outburst "unmaking" her created life forms, she ended up moving the waters to cause the Great Flood. That means that Ashunera has never "unmade" anything, but just moved what is already there.

Ashera herself never displayed the power to create something from nothing. 

So ultimately, Ashunera being a goddess is one thing, but she never truly displayed the power of making and unmaking, even with her counterparts, but rather it was just said that she created life. But the power of making and unmaking would fall under the factor of omnipotence, which was never truly displayed, so I don't feel it was actually Ex Nihilo. 

Like I said, you can use the logic "Nothing confirms that person did that thing in the very precise way I define it because the script didn't go into minute detail" to argue absolutely anything. If you want to argue this with me, then argue the facts, not your personal headcanon. These are my facts that you need to disprove.

*Naga, by her own claim, does not have the power of making or unmaking.

*Ashunera may have the power of making.

*Because it is a possibility Ashunera has the power of making and unmaking while it is a certainty that Naga does not, Ashunera has more reason to be considered a god than Naga does.

 

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Jotari said:

Like I said, you can use the logic "Nothing confirms that person did that thing in the very precise way I define it because the script didn't go into minute detail" to argue absolutely anything. If you want to argue this with me, then argue the facts, not your personal headcanon. These are my facts that you need to disprove.

*Naga, by her own claim, does not have the power of making or unmaking.

*Ashunera may have the power of making.

*Because it is a possibility Ashunera has the power of making and unmaking while it is a certainty that Naga does not, Ashunera has more reason to be considered a god than Naga does.

 

Okay, I'll agree on that.

[Corrobin]

Gimme Mythic Medeus

[omegaxis1]

You know, it does occur to me. If Ashera, or even Ashunera, are summoned, they end up basically bound to serve the Summoner. The act of how you can command and control gods basically end up giving the impression that the Summoner, or rather the Breidablik, a weapon of Askr, is basically MORE powerful than the gods themselves. 

[Othin]

7 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

You know, it does occur to me. If Ashera, or even Ashunera, are summoned, they end up basically bound to serve the Summoner. The act of how you can command and control gods basically end up giving the impression that the Summoner, or rather the Breidablik, a weapon of Askr, is basically MORE powerful than the gods themselves. 

I mean, that's already true with Duma.

[Ice Dragon]

16 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

You know, it does occur to me. If Ashera, or even Ashunera, are summoned, they end up basically bound to serve the Summoner. The act of how you can command and control gods basically end up giving the impression that the Summoner, or rather the Breidablik, a weapon of Askr, is basically MORE powerful than the gods themselves. 

I'm waiting for the Daily Life of Heroes chapter that covers this topic, granted manga Kiran seems to have both Grimas under reasonable control.

Edited February 1, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[omegaxis1]

9 minutes ago, Othin said:

I mean, that's already true with Duma.

Yeah, but Duma is already a case where others are already confirmed to be stronger than him, ie. Naga. 

Though we summon Grima, it's heavily implied by their quotes that they are not at full power. 

Then again, based on timelines, Duma and Mila had weakened, so even the Duma that we have is not at prime. I wonder if all the gods would indicate that they are not at their full strength or be summoned at the period when they are weakened? 

Like, Medeus in both Shadow Dragon and New Mystery is never at full strength. Granted, Medeus in New Mystery is stronger than he was in his prime, but even then, he was not at his full power as a Dark Dragon. 

But this is sort of why I always felt that Askr is pretty much the most dangerous enemy in Fire Emblem. 

8 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm waiting for the Daily Life of Heroes chapter that covers this topic.

LOL XD That would be hilarious. 

Edited February 1, 2019 by omegaxis1

[DefyingFates]

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

LOL XD That would be hilarious.

They seem pretty happy to jump on memes, so I think we'll get one sooner than later xD

On topic, Eir throws the idea of Mythics being godlike beings into question since she hasn't displayed any "godlike" traits so far. The cynic in me suspects we'll get another actual God for a Mythic Hero, then get normal characters with Divine Weapons until we get Hel at the end of the year, or something.

The optimist in me really wants Formortiss!Lyon though, even if that feels too close to F!Grima to qualify as a Mythic.

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

12 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

They seem pretty happy to jump on memes, so I think we'll get one sooner than later xD

On topic, Eir throws the idea of Mythics being godlike beings into question since she hasn't displayed any "godlike" traits so far. The cynic in me suspects we'll get another actual God for a Mythic Hero, then get normal characters with Divine Weapons until we get Hel at the end of the year, or something.

The optimist in me really wants Formortiss!Lyon though, even if that feels too close to F!Grima to qualify as a Mythic.

Eir was not in the realm of the living and was told by Hel to join the living and did so. That’s already something godlike

Edited February 1, 2019 by SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre

[Tree]

29 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

They seem pretty happy to jump on memes, so I think we'll get one sooner than later xD

On topic, Eir throws the idea of Mythics being godlike beings into question since she hasn't displayed any "godlike" traits so far. The cynic in me suspects we'll get another actual God for a Mythic Hero, then get normal characters with Divine Weapons until we get Hel at the end of the year, or something.

The optimist in me really wants Formortiss!Lyon though, even if that feels too close to F!Grima to qualify as a Mythic.

Grima would have been a mythic for sure had mythics existed then. Tiki would likely have been a mythic too instead of a legendary. I think they will probably make adult Tiki into a mythic, but they probably won't do anything about Grima. I think Lyon has a very good chance still. Micaiah and Yune (human form) will probably be made into legendary and mythic forms respectively.

Edited February 1, 2019 by Tree

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

33 minutes ago, Tree said:

Grima would have been a mythic for sure had mythics existed then. Tiki would likely have been a mythic too instead of a legendary. I think they will probably make adult Tiki into a mythic, but they probably won't do anything about Grima. I think Lyon has a very good chance still. Micaiah and Yune (human form) will probably be made into legendary and mythic forms respectively.

Formortis in his true body would make far more sense. They already made Lyon's battle a GHB.

[omegaxis1]

41 minutes ago, Tree said:

Grima would have been a mythic for sure had mythics existed then. Tiki would likely have been a mythic too instead of a legendary. I think they will probably make adult Tiki into a mythic, but they probably won't do anything about Grima. I think Lyon has a very good chance still. Micaiah and Yune (human form) will probably be made into legendary and mythic forms respectively.

I wonder if they'll make SoV Grima be Mythic?

[Tree]

9 minutes ago, SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre said:

Formortis in his true body would make far more sense. They already made Lyon's battle a GHB.

I don't disagree, just not sure they would do that. I guess if made larger like Surtr, it could work. I'd prefer that version over using Lyon, and it actually would be more accurate too.

[omegaxis1]

8 minutes ago, Tree said:

I don't disagree, just not sure they would do that. I guess if made larger like Surtr, it could work. I'd prefer that version over using Lyon, and it actually would be more accurate too.

But I guess the problem is that they would be huge bodies to deal with. They have a human form to avoid size issues. Hence why Grima is as Robin.

[Emperor Hardin]

10 minutes ago, Tree said:

I don't disagree, just not sure they would do that. I guess if made larger like Surtr, it could work. I'd prefer that version over using Lyon, and it actually would be more accurate too.

Its possible they do design a human form or have Lyon summon him.

[Tree]

27 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

But I guess the problem is that they would be huge bodies to deal with. They have a human form to avoid size issues. Hence why Grima is as Robin.

Yeah, that is the issue. They could make him larger like Surtr on the map. In battle, he would start out full size (larger than the Surtr-size map version) and not need to transform at all.

[Vince777]

Heroes require quite a lot more than the usual suspension of disbelief.

While it feels odd that god-like beings be summoned, it was already irrational that heroes would willingly accept being essentially kidnapped from their homelands to fight and possibly die for a country they’ve never heard of.

[Ice Dragon]

5 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

Heroes require quite a lot more than the usual suspension of disbelief.

While it feels odd that god-like beings be summoned, it was already irrational that heroes would willingly accept being essentially kidnapped from their homelands to fight and possibly die for a country they’ve never heard of.

You can't die in Casual/Phoenix/whateverthefuckit'scalled mode, which Heroes is permanently in.

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

3 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

Heroes require quite a lot more than the usual suspension of disbelief.

While it feels odd that god-like beings be summoned, it was already irrational that heroes would willingly accept being essentially kidnapped from their homelands to fight and possibly die for a country they’ve never heard of.

Yeah, and the summoner can order Heroes to kill their contracted loved ones.  Sigurd, go attack Deirdre happens. Or Eliwood against Ninian or Hector.