Voting Gauntlet: Destructive Forces

[Tybrosion]

6 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

It's no different than watching sports. Even the best team in the league doesn't win all of their games.

Yeah, I don't buy that analogy. Unless if you're talking about games decided by a bad call, that isn't the same thing because those teams lose due to factors that they can control. That, and the other team genuinely rose to occasion and won the day on their own merits and not because of a stupid handicap bonus.

[Baldrick]

57 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

That's nice, but I most certainly do not. I've always hated the multiplier system and always will. All it has done as far as I'm concerned is create an illusion of fairness and regularly punish popular teams for daring to be popular. Unless you enjoy watching others get dicked over for no reason, that is most certainly not what I'd call fun.

Then they might as well not run the VG at all and just declare Surtr the winner.

[Tybrosion]

7 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Then they might as well not run the VG at all and just declare Surtr the winner.

You mean the asshole who's about to get sent back to Hel and who was losing to Grima to begin with?

If you're going to make a comment like that, at least get the character (Idunn) right.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Tybrosion

[Baldrick]

12 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

You mean the asshole who's about to get sent back to Hel and who was losing to Grima to begin with?

If you're going to make a comment like that, at least get the character (Idunn) right.

Surtr was the highest in CYL. So I guess it's alright for a character you don't like to be punished for daring to be popular? Ho hum.

[Tybrosion]

3 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Surtr was the highest in CYL. So I guess it's alright for a character you don't like to be punished for daring to be popular? Ho hum.

.....You do know CYL doesn't matter here, right? Surtr never had the bigger team than Grima here in this VG. If he did, he wouldn't have gotten outscored by almost 16,000,000 after the first hour. 

[Puzzle044]

On 3/28/2019 at 12:39 PM, Mercakete said:

(except that Idunn also eventually gets an annoying "feel bad for me; look, I can only speak in broken sentences now; you should want to take care of me" ending, from what I've heard.))

I hope you don't mind me quoting almost a week later;

I just wanted to point out that it's not really a "feel bad for me" ending.  (And having read it again, I really don't see that as the intent... at all.)
Rather it's a "New beginning/future filled with hope" ending. (There is even some symbolism for it as well.)

Edited April 3, 2019 by Puzzle044
Forgot a word.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Shoot, I just missed my final shot. Oh well, being on Team Garon, I'm probably still locked into the top 5K. I get the feeling we didn't pull ahead though 

[Anacybele]

Julius won! I can still use my team's character for another round, sweetness.

[Fabulously Olivier]

Surtr has been thrown back down to the depths of mediocrity from whence he came. That's all that matters.

[Ice Dragon]

39 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

Yeah, I don't buy that analogy. Unless if you're talking about games decided by a bad call, that isn't the same thing because those teams lose due to factors that they can control. That, and the other team genuinely rose to occasion and won the day on their own merits and not because of a stupid handicap bonus.

And I don't buy that luck plays zero role in sports games.

And I think a game of basketball where the team that is currently down gets double points for each score sounds like a more interesting game to watch than a curbstomp.

[Tybrosion]

3 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Shoot, I just missed my final shot. Oh well, being on Team Garon, I'm probably still locked into the top 5K. I get the feeling we didn't pull ahead though 

If by pull ahead you mean win, we did not. I only got ranking feathers.

2 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Surtr has been thrown back down to the depths of mediocrity from whence he came. That's all that matters.

Amen to that one. With him gone, now I don't care who wins.

[Strullemia]

Managed to rank 157 in Idunn army. Oh and Idunn won.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Hekselka

[Humanoid]

I don't support rubber-banding mechanics in any game, though I understand the intent. But then I thought Germany 7-1 Brazil was a wonderfully entertaining spectacle so there's probably a correlation there. ;) I love seeing a sports team absolutely demolish another with skill and verve.

[Tybrosion]

9 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

And I think a game of basketball where the team that is currently down gets double points for each score sounds like a more interesting game to watch than a curbstomp.

Nope, if a franchise / team has been so badly mismanaged (like the Browns were until recently) to the point where they get blown out regularly then they don't deserve any handicaps or pity for that matter.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Tybrosion

[Anacybele]

9 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

And I don't buy that luck plays zero role in sports games.

Luck definitely plays some role in sports, yeah. Just go check out some of those lucky catches/deflections that happen in the NFL or some of those lucky puck bounces that sometimes happen in NHL hockey.

For example, I've seen a puck bounce off the wall behind a net, then ricochet off the back of the goalie's head into the net behind him. Tell me how that isn't lucky for one team and totally unlucky for the other. xP

So yeah, there's some luck in these gauntlets and some luck in sports.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Anacybele

[Ice Dragon]

3 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

I don't support rubber-banding mechanics in any game, though I understand the intent. But then I thought Germany 7-1 Brazil was a wonderfully entertaining spectacle so there's probably a correlation there. ;) I love seeing a sports team absolutely demolish another with skill and verve.

It's more reasonable to have rubber banding mechanics for games where you expect the two teams to not be balanced. When both sides are professional-level, then curbstomps are probably fine... most of the time, but when they are not like that (which is a case that Voting Gauntlets definitely fall under), a curbstomp means that the losing team really has no reason to bother to continue playing, and that's neither a fun situation to play in nor a fun situation to watch.

[Humanoid]

3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

It's more reasonable to have rubber banding mechanics for games where you expect the two teams to not be balanced. When both sides are professional-level, then curbstomps are probably fine... most of the time, but when they are not like that (which is a case that Voting Gauntlets definitely fall under), a curbstomp means that the losing team really has no reason to bother to continue playing, and that's neither a fun situation to play in nor a fun situation to watch.

That's because victory feathers exist though. If they didn't, then there'd be no disadvantage for being on the smaller team. I realise that'd mean the contest would be effectively meaningless if that was the only change, but I'd prefer a collective reward instead to be awarded based on the winner, e.g. an accessory based on the winning character. That way, team selection would be essentially voting for which accessory you want (every player gets it, it's just that the specific accessory given out depends on who won).

[Ice Dragon]

4 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

every player gets it, it's just that the specific accessory given out depends on who won

But even in that case, if I see that the accessory I want is tied to a team that is absolutely getting curbstomped with no hope for success and there are no other accessories I care for, what reason do I have to even try?

(I mean, the accessories currently in the game that I actually care for I can count on one hand.)

[Humanoid]

2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

But even in that case, if I see that the accessory I want is tied to a team that is absolutely getting curbstomped with no hope for success and there are no other accessories I care for, what reason do I have to even try?

(I mean, the accessories currently in the game that I actually care for I can count on one hand.)

For the pragmatist (which I generally count myself as one) it reduces the event into just participating for the feathers and orbs, I admit. Personally I don't mind, it'd end up basically like CYL in terms of reward structure and I'd be happy just to do the minimum to get all the orbs.

Ultimately my motivation would be to removing the guessing-game aspect of VGs for feather mercenaries by guaranteeing the material rewards upfront and only leaving the cosmetic rewards up for the popularity contest. But I guess I'm just boring like that - I prefer everyone gets the same reward from all these events. Maybe leave arena as the competitive mode but I don't like VGs and GCs also being competitive, and semi-random competitive at that (as opposed to say, TT rank feathers).

[Baldrick]

1 hour ago, Tybrosion said:

.....You do know CYL doesn't matter here, right?

It’s the most reliable way to measure popularity. Unlike VG, it has stakes.

[Tybrosion]

9 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

It’s the most reliable way to measure popularity. Unlike VG, it has stakes.

Besides that first part not even being correct (*cough* Brigand Boss *cough* Jorge), this still isn't CYL and I honestly still have no clue why you even brought it up. Surtr's team was not the most popular one here despite his CYL standing, and as such he lost.

[Nanima]

44 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

It’s the most reliable way to measure popularity. Unlike VG, it has stakes.

CYL has way too many factors influencing it to be seen as a reliable way to measute popularity. Look at Leo for exampel. Compared to CYL2, his placing improved by a lot this year. Does that mean he somehow got more popular in a year, despite no additional content released with him in it? No, it was because people were upset that he has the least alts among the Fates royals and rallied to get him in the Top 10, so Intsys would pay more attention to him. A lot of those votes would have gone to other characters under different circumstances. 

Likewise, Takumi sank down a couple places this year. Do you think that's people actually liking him less now? No, it was in large part due to him sharing a lot of fans with Leo. (both being popular with female fans aged 10-30) So when fans rallied around Leo, he actually lost those votes and sank accordingly. 

That's not even taking into account troll votes. Considering this poll is less of a neutral "Who do you like more?" and more of a "Who do you want more alts of?" contest, pure popularity is never the only factor measured here. Especially with the repeated votes in place. So character A might have more fans in total, but character B can still rise higher if they have more fans voting for them each day. CYL doesn't measure who has the most fans, but who has the most devoted (i.e willing to spend money on them).

Anyway, enough derail. I am glad Hardin won and I even got the highest amount of feathers for once, despite playing only twice today and not even close to the last hour (since that takes place in the early hours of the morning where I live). I think the system is much improved now, since I don't lose out on feathers for living in the wrong timezone.

[Ice Dragon]

4 minutes ago, Nanima said:

CYL has way too many factors influencing it to be seen as a reliable way to measute popularity.

That doesn't mean it isn't the most reliable means. The most dog-like cat is not a dog, after all.

The thing about CYL is that we have new data coming in every year, meaning we can see trends over time, compare them with other things we know, like the release of new content, and use all of that to determine how popular characters actually are, which is exactly what you just did. Considering how much data CYL actually generates, it is by far the best means we have of determining character popularity, even if a single CYL is by no means accurate by itself.

[Baldrick]

3 minutes ago, Nanima said:

CYL has way too many factors influencing it to be seen as a reliable way to measute popularity.

True, but VG is affected by those factors and more, such as picking a character just because you have them, or they'll get you more feathers.

[Nanima]

10 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

That doesn't mean it isn't the most reliable means. The most dog-like cat is not a dog, after all.

The thing about CYL is that we have new data coming in every year, meaning we can see trends over time, compare them with other things we know, like the release of new content, and use all of that to determine how popular characters actually are, which is exactly what you just did. Considering how much data CYL actually generates, it is by far the best means we have of determining character popularity, even if a single CYL is by no means accurate by itself.

Right, so then why did Sutr not have the biggest army? Surely, gameplay cannot be a factor. Do you think a Summer Sutr would generate more than a Summer Idunn? 

Just because a lame duck is still a duck doesn't make it not lame.

1 minute ago, Baldrick said:

True, but VG is affected by those factors and more, such as picking a character just because you have them, or they'll get you more feathers.

Grima is about as hard to get as Sutr is. And he was definitely not the candidate team feathers were banking on, so his victory over your "sure winner" was not influenced by those factors.