How do the NG+ exclusive crest stones work?

[DragonFlames]

19 hours ago, timon said:

Also @ZodiacSoldier you can buy whatever crest item you want, but you'll get the ones related to your previous playthrough for free. They don't stack though, if you play on a "stack" of 4 NG+ you get for free only the crests related to the previous one. eg. you play BE -> BL -> GD, in BL you'll have Seiros/Chicol/etc for free, in GD you'll have Dominic/Daphnel/etc for free but you'll have to buy Seiros/Chicol/etc.

That's a shame. I thought it gave you the crest stones from every playthrough you did. Oh well...

On that note: Is it the same for classes you mastered, as well? For example, if I play Blue Lions first and have Byleth master, say, the Mercenary class, then master Warrior in the next playthrough, could I get both mastery skills on a third playthrough or would it only be the one from Warrior?

[Sid Starkiller]

44 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

That's a shame. I thought it gave you the crest stones from every playthrough you did. Oh well...

On that note: Is it the same for classes you mastered, as well? For example, if I play Blue Lions first and have Byleth master, say, the Mercenary class, then master Warrior in the next playthrough, could I get both mastery skills on a third playthrough or would it only be the one from Warrior?

Yes, you would have access to both. Apparently you can also do this to buy gender-restricted class mastery skills for Byleth.

[timon]

@CyberNinja

Spoiler

Well no, we KNOW that the crests run in the blood, a stone in the heart doesn't change the blood. What I mean is, what Rhea did with her experiments and with Byleth is "equipping" a crest, they don't BEAR the crest, they're just holding its power. For the Seiros's one it's different because it's actually in Jeralt's blood (and in its purest form, so it's very likely they would've had one), but the Flames? Unless they have a blood line to Nemesis (which had it in his blood) or Sothis herself it's not going to happen.

Also not sure if it's a known fact (but maybe it's useful to the discussion), but what Rhea does is moving the stone from the mother to Byleth, as there's obviously only one Sothis heart.

@DragonFlames everything else stacks across NG+. You'll have to buy stuff again though, so if you master Merc in NG you can buy Vantage in NG+, if you then master Brigand you'll be able to buy Vantage and Death Blow in NG++. Works the same with supports btw, and there's actually a bonus, if you max out support points after A with someone you'll be able to buy S rank in the next playthrough (with a matching gender obviously). Useful to complete the support logbook.

[DragonFlames]

25 minutes ago, timon said:

 

@DragonFlames everything else stacks across NG+. You'll have to buy stuff again though, so if you master Merc in NG you can buy Vantage in NG+, if you then master Brigand you'll be able to buy Vantage and Death Blow in NG++. Works the same with supports btw, and there's actually a bonus, if you max out support points after A with someone you'll be able to buy S rank in the next playthrough (with a matching gender obviously). Useful to complete the support logbook.

 

4 hours ago, Sid Starkiller said:

Yes, you would have access to both. Apparently you can also do this to buy gender-restricted class mastery skills for Byleth.

Awesome! Thanks, both of you!

[CyberNinja]

2 hours ago, timon said:

@CyberNinja

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Well no, we KNOW that the crests run in the blood, a stone in the heart doesn't change the blood. What I mean is, what Rhea did with her experiments and with Byleth is "equipping" a crest, they don't BEAR the crest, they're just holding its power. For the Seiros's one it's different because it's actually in Jeralt's blood (and in its purest form, so it's very likely they would've had one), but the Flames? Unless they have a blood line to Nemesis (which had it in his blood) or Sothis herself it's not going to happen.

Also not sure if it's a known fact (but maybe it's useful to the discussion), but what Rhea does is moving the stone from the mother to Byleth, as there's obviously only one Sothis heart.

 

Site ate my first response 

Spoiler

Sorry for my obstinate but aren't you making an arbitrary distinction here? Byleths heart is nonbeating and effectively dead. Byleth shouldn't be alive if not for the magic and Sothis' heart sustaining him and it remains the only reason blood flows within him. If simply taking in the blood of a dragon can revive near dead humans and give them a crest then under why evidence is it so unlikely that taking ones heart for your own wouldn't do the same?

there exists no example barring the other tests by Rhea and Byleth, he has the crest of flames. Anyone else using the power of the crest stones who lacked the crest were simply turned into beasts. Relics are simply using the corpse/bones forged into a tool to resonate with and direct the power of the crest stone. The "equipping of crests" is just a gameplay element and has no evidence of lore unless you consider the blood method to also be equipping a crest.

as I've said in three routes I have seen no cause to believe that the crest of flames couldn't be passed down by Byleth or his mother assuming they acquired it from Sothis' heart.

beyond that, Byleth still is shown to have some connection with Sothis since he is capable of S ranking her even if you follow the Edelgard route, so even when the crest stone disappears he still has some connection to Sorhis, this seems likely that there is more to it than simply the crest stone. 

 

[timon]

@CyberNinja sorry for not quoting but I'm having problems answering in this specific topic with quotes idk why

Spoiler

No problem with "obstination", we're having a discussion after all.
What I meant by "equipping" isn't at all related to the mechanic, I guess "attached" is better. What I mean is, Byleth's crest comes exclusively from the stone. If you remove the stone, there's no crest anymore, because it's not in the blood (and that applies to the mother as well). Also I don't think we can say that the crest stone IS Byleth's heart, as you can see in the CF cinematic it's just attached, it's like a machine that keeps them alive.

I guess our whole argument here is based on the means of acquiring a crest. I don't think it's ever confirmed anywhere so it's theorycrafting anyways, but IMO the crest is in the blood, what Byleth has is just a temporary crest power, but his blood is "clean" as her mother's was, so no passing down of crests.

tl;dr: To summarize my view: crests run in blood (that's confirmed), implanting a stone heart doesn't change the blood, hence the crest is not in the blood, hence it can't be passed down to children. That's my reasoning at least.

On Sothis's S rank, I think it's not about their connection, I think the deal here is that you don't actually delete the goddess completely anyways, she's too powerful to be killed, so she can come back to Byleth on her own accord if "love sparks".

Edited August 30, 2019 by timon

[CyberNinja]

2 hours ago, timon said:

@CyberNinja sorry for not quoting but I'm having problems answering in this specific topic with quotes idk why

  Hide contents

No problem with "obstination", we're having a discussion after all.
What I meant by "equipping" isn't at all related to the mechanic, I guess "attached" is better. What I mean is, Byleth's crest comes exclusively from the stone. If you remove the stone, there's no crest anymore, because it's not in the blood (and that applies to the mother as well). Also I don't think we can say that the crest stone IS Byleth's heart, as you can see in the CF cinematic it's just attached, it's like a machine that keeps them alive.

I guess our whole argument here is based on the means of acquiring a crest. I don't think it's ever confirmed anywhere so it's theorycrafting anyways, but IMO the crest is in the blood, what Byleth has is just a temporary crest power, but his blood is "clean" as her mother's was, so no passing down of crests.

tl;dr: To summarize my view: crests run in blood (that's confirmed), implanting a stone heart doesn't change the blood, hence the crest is not in the blood, hence it can't be passed down to children. That's my reasoning at least.

On Sothis's S rank, I think it's not about their connection, I think the deal here is that you don't actually delete the goddess completely anyways, she's too powerful to be killed, so she can come back to Byleth on her own accord if "love sparks".

Spoiler

Well we know a few things

The saints were actually dragons and they all obviously have crest stones

You can gain the power of the crest (which originates from the crest stone) by using the blood of the dragons

Edelgard acquired a second crest using the blood of Sothis

Edelgard in one route undergoes a procedure to cause a half monster/dragon transformation using her crests, she develops crest stones

Byleth's heart does not beat

Sothis' heart has vein like appendages embedded in Byleth's heart

Sothis' heart is the only reason blood flows in Byleth, ergo it must be acting as his heart/life support.

So theorycrafting (all this ever was)

Since relics are useless without the crest stone and can technically be used by crestless (although ending in horrible monstrous transformation, insanity, and death) It seems to me that the crest stones contain all the power, the relics are merely bones shaped to direct the power and while crests among humans come from blood, its simply because thats usually the only way humans can acquire one without being overwhelmed and turned into beasts by overflow of power. Namely I see the crest stone as that which empowers the blood and enables the blood to give a crest, a successful crest implantation would be far more powerful than simply gaining a crst. After all Edelgard clearly doesn't start warping time thanks to her flame crest. Thus I take it that what was lost in Edelgard's ending was mostly just the explicit god powers and the crest stone. I don't see anything that suggests to the contrary that Byleth's crest is any different from anyone elses other than the method by which he acquired it and since I perceive the blood of dragons as only having the power to give crests thanks to being energized by the crest stone, I see it as the crest stone being an equivalent way of getting a crest the same as blood. 

Due to this, Byletyh's mother (unless explicitly stated otherwise) likely had the crest of flames but did not gain Sothis' power or hear her voice. This likely only happened because Byleth had both the bloodlines of Seiros ans Sothis at the highest purity plus the crest stone that Sothis had the possibility of even awaking, essentially being the FE Awakening situation wherein many had the grima bloodline but they needed a certain purity to enable the creation of the Avatar of Grima. Thus my conclusion that Byleth must have gained an exceptionally pure divine dragon bloodline thanks to having been born form two first gen donors and getting the crest stone of Sothis placed within him. Naturally, since I have not yet played the church route, any information there may either reinforce my theory or complete debunk it. As it stands I've not had much to dissuade me of this theory from the other routes.