Admiral "Bull" Halsey Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Can't really say, it really depends on the circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 (edited) You think women have to right to have abortions? I think it is acceptable under certain conditions, like rape. If you get pregnant while having unprotected sex, or even failed protected sex, you should be responsible for your bad choice and give labor. If you are unable to take care of the baby, just give it to adoption. How isn't abortion taking responsibility for the pregnancy, anymore than using a condom before it occurred? It should be the woman's absolute decision whether to remove an unwelcome entity from her own being, especially when said entity isn't even a person. Edited November 19, 2008 by Esau of Isaac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatrie: Guns Blazing Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 America, and most other nations seem to have forgotten about adoption. *ahem* Abortion = yes i would have little Gatries in NYC if it werent for abortions. little mes = bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitloop Multipuck Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 It should be the woman's absolute decision whether to remove an unwelcome entity from her own being, especially when said entity isn't even a person. Whether this is true would be the relevant question on which most of the arguments hinge, I would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatrie: Guns Blazing Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Whether this is true would be the relevant question on which most of the arguments hinge, I would think. but is it ALIVE before its born? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Whether this is true would be the relevant question on which most of the arguments hinge, I would think. Oh, not necessarily. While I'm willing to enter into debate to determine the personhood of a fetus (or lack thereof), it ultimately does not matter, since it doesn't change that a woman should not have to experience discomfort for any period of time to make due for another to live. I am certainly not legally in the right to break into another's house and make myself comfy when I would otherwise die, and in that same respect I find that the fetus has no intrinsic right to simply continue living in the mother's body when it is completely unwanted in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Sensitive topic here, since I know someone who has had at least one abortion, to my knowledge. Anyway, story time: My mother got pregnant last year. She isn't even in a relationship with anyone (not married, has no boyfriend, etc.) just some random cunt who I probably would have killed if I knew who it was. Anyway, that's going off-topic. She was pregnant. I would have liked nothing more than for her to abort it, but of course, I said nothing to her, because it's not my choice what happens at the end of the day. I just hated the idea of having change around the house: I was used to it being just me, my mother and my brother. Yet, a few weeks later, she had a miscarriage. From then on, I've been feeling pretty shitty for wanting her to abort it. Mainly because she herself wanted it. And I still have no true idea where I stand in this. If I had a girlfriend who was pregnant, I'd leave the decision to her unless she wanted me to help her decide. I'd personally have it aborted considering my current lifestyle, (university, and being only 19, etc.) but it would be at the back of my mind for the rest of my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camus The Dark Knight Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 (edited) I am strongly against abortion... For certain personal reasons. If you can't keep your pants on and don't want to have safe sex and you don't want a child, grow the fuck up and take some responsibility and don't have sex at all. Have safe sex or don't have it at all if you don't want a child. And if you don't want one, but suck up and have it, just put it up for adoption. But of course that is probably beyond most peoples ability now, so they take the easiest option out of it, killing the fetus before it does become someone. What it comes down to is what you consider "The start of life", I consider it starts from the start, once that sperm cell reaches the egg, it has started, perhaps others do not and feel it's a problem ending it before it reaches the point of consciousness. The only time I would agree with abortion, is if the mothers life were in jeopardy due to the child. since it doesn't change that a woman should not have to experience discomfort for any period of time to make due for another to live. My oh my... boo hoo discomfort from a result of something they did. Soldiers in past wars experienced discomfort so others may live, others like you, your mother experienced it so you could live. This is poor logic and is a very selfish stance. Better not come to my house, your unwanted and I'll shoot you on the spot, but hey, it's my house, so it's no big deal. Edited November 19, 2008 by Izuka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolDeath Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Because every single person who has ever gotten knocked up without meaning to is irresponsible. Right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Izuka, you make it sound so straightforward. It really does not go as smooth as you say. If you can't keep your pants on and don't want to have safe sex and you don't want a child, grow the fuck up and take some responsibility and don't have sex at all. Have safe sex or don't have it at all if you don't want a child. I'll agree with this. And if you don't want one, but suck up and have it, just put it up for adoption. While I agree to a certain extent, you make it sound like a child who should just throw an unwanted toy away. It's not quite so simple. You may think it is, but there's a shitload of emotional things that get mixed up in it all that should be considered. But of course that is probably beyond most peoples ability now, so they take the easiest option out of it, killing the fetus before it does become someone. Basically... As selfish as it may seem, people do consider an extreme change in lifestyle a child would make to be too much, and would rather do something about it before it becomes something to really get upset about, for the sake of their lifestyle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 If you can't keep your pants on and don't want to have safe sex and you don't want a child, grow the fuck up and take some responsibility and don't have sex at all. Have safe sex or don't have it at all if you don't want a child. And if you don't want one, but suck up and have it, just put it up for adoption. Why in the world should they have to do that in the first place? But of course that is probably beyond most peoples ability now, so they take the easiest option out of it, killing the fetus before it does become someone. Which --again-- shouldn't be a problem in the slightest. What it comes down to is what you consider "The start of life", I consider it starts from the start, once that sperm cell reaches the egg, it has started, perhaps others do not and feel it's a problem ending it before it reaches the point of consciousness. Except no, that's not the start. Life started once, two billion years ago; the materials that make up the fetus are all living beforehand. And why should we give rights to it just because it's alive? That doesn't even make sense. My oh my... boo hoo discomfort from a result of something they did. Is there something comical about a woman being incapable of controlling her own fucking body? I thought this concept should have been cut and dry. Soldiers in past wars experienced discomfort so others may live, others like you, your mother experienced it so you could live. And? That means absolutely nothing. I mean, how does this even apply to this situation? Does the fact that soldiers had to experience discomfort instantly invalidate the rights of people? Funny. I thought most soldiers' believed they were fighting to protect rights, not take them away. This is poor logic and is a very selfish stance. It's fine logic, and I don't give a damn if it's selfish. Especially if it has to do with someone's own damned body. I wouldn't care if a woman wanted to cut out a cancer that was not harmful, and I sure as hell don't mind if a woman wants to remove an unfeeling, unthinking being from the inside of her body. I personally support the act less as time goes on, but it doesn't change that it's the woman's choice to remove it from her body. Better not come to my house, your unwanted and I'll shoot you on the spot, but hey, it's my house, so it's no big deal. More like "I don't like people breaking in my house, and if you do, I have the right to remove you if I wish." Of course, this is giving quite a bit more person-like quality to whatever is breaking in, so I suppose we should make it more like a rock being thrown through my window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YokaiKnight Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 (edited) I am strongly against abortion... For certain personal reasons.If you can't keep your pants on and don't want to have safe sex and you don't want a child, grow the fuck up and take some responsibility and don't have sex at all. Have safe sex or don't have it at all if you don't want a child. And if you don't want one, but suck up and have it, just put it up for adoption. But of course that is probably beyond most peoples ability now, so they take the easiest option out of it, killing the fetus before it does become someone. What it comes down to is what you consider "The start of life", I consider it starts from the start, once that sperm cell reaches the egg, it has started, perhaps others do not and feel it's a problem ending it before it reaches the point of consciousness. The only time I would agree with abortion, is if the mothers life were in jeopardy due to the child. My oh my... boo hoo discomfort from a result of something they did. Soldiers in past wars experienced discomfort so others may live, others like you, your mother experienced it so you could live. This is poor logic and is a very selfish stance. Better not come to my house, your unwanted and I'll shoot you on the spot, but hey, it's my house, so it's no big deal. Though I can criticize the details, it's all well and good that you're strongly pro-life. That's fine. Just don't use the force of law to conform everyone to your opinion. That's taking away rights. It's not the government's job to be morality police--it's their job to protect us and protect our rights. EDIT: Also, this is a side of you I haven't seen before. >__> Edited November 19, 2008 by YokaiKnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Spoon Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 (edited) adopt [uh-dopt] –verb (used with object) 1. to choose or take as one's own; make one's own by selection or assent: to adopt a nickname. 2. to take and rear (the child of other parents) as one's own child, specifically by a formal legal act. 3. to take or receive into any kind of new relationship: to adopt a person as a protégé. 4. to select as a basic or required textbook or series of textbooks in a course. 5. to vote to accept: The House adopted the report. 6. to accept or act in accordance with (a plan, principle, etc.). —Verb phrase7. adopt out, to place (a child) for adoption: The institution may keep a child or adopt it out. I think that abortion is okay. By okay, I mean in cases of rape and/or where the mother's health is in danger. Notice the word that has been defined above. Edited November 19, 2008 by General Spoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteor Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Though I can criticize the details, it's all well and good that you're strongly pro-life. That's fine. Just don't use the force of law to conform everyone to your opinion. That's taking away rights. It's not the government's job to be morality police--it's their job to protect us and protect our rights.EDIT: Also, this is a side of you I haven't seen before. >__> So now a baby's (potential) life is just an opinion? You say that a government's job is to protect "us." Are "we" only under protection once we've left the womb? Are we only concerned with protecting the present citizens, or are we not also supposed to protect future generations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Rabbit Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 *watches Juno again* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGV Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 *watched Juno with Adam while waiting to watch "Knocked Up" next* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camus The Dark Knight Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Also, this is a side of you I haven't seen before. >__> I don't joke when I say I take it seriously. When it comes to subjects like legalizing drugs, gay marriage, and other hot topics I am normally pretty calm about discussing points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I really don't have much to say, but Esau of Isaac says what I wanted to say pretty effectively. I'm not sure much of the biology of the fetus though; I am pro-choice because it's the woman's fetus and she should be the one who chooses what should be done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyosua Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 There are a couple problems with abortion, and with banning abortion. First off, if the mother's life is in danger or if she was raped, then I believe it should be entirely legal. By that same token, I believe that the government should not have a right to tell women what they can or can't do with the insides of their bodies, and thus I believe abortion should be legal for that reason as well. However, I frown on using abortions just because you were too fucking stupid to use contraceptives, so while I think it should be legal, I still think the mindset that they're frowned upon for this reason, and this reason only, is fine. Sure, if the person was raped, I think everyone should be perfectly fine with that woman having an abortion. Now the problems with banning it. If you ban abortions, they're just going to happen anyways, only in less clean environments, and women will get sick and or die due to the poor conditions. It's like prohibition - it doesn't work! The only workable solution is to regulate it in clean hospital-like environments. Take my word for it, just banning something because of your moral beliefs isn't going to stop it from happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteor Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 (edited) At the end of the day, you'll believe whatever you want to believe. That said, after trying to eliminate any religious or social bias, I come to the conclusion that a fertilized egg does count as life. Scientifically speaking, sex is intended to reproduce, and what causes that process is fertilization. Even so, I don't think that's a reason to ban abortion. Edited November 19, 2008 by Meteor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeSu Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I'm not against abortion, but I'm not really for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Judy Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Now the problems with banning it. If you ban abortions, they're just going to happen anyways, only in less clean environments, and women will get sick and or die due to the poor conditions. It's like prohibition - it doesn't work! The only workable solution is to regulate it in clean hospital-like environments. Take my word for it, just banning something because of your moral beliefs isn't going to stop it from happening. Agreed. Like I mentioned earlier on in this topic, when abortion was banned, women found other ways to get abortion. This is more commonly known as back street abortion. It resulted in alot of deaths due to the unclean conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnell Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I think abortion is awful. It's murder, and the mother does not have the right to decide if that baby lives or dies just because it is in her body. From the moment the sperm and egg join, you have all the DNA to make a full and complete person. The only reason I can possibly think of to abort a child is if the mother's life is in danger and she agrees to. Even the rape thing doesn't hold water with me. I say put it up for adoption if you don't want it, just don't kill it. On another note, the debate on if you can kill a fetus because it is not alive yet scares the crap out of me. If you can decide that a fetus is not alive yet, can you say I'm not a person yet and can be killed because I'm not an adult (I'm not saying that that is what any of you pro-choice people is saying, just that the potential for future arguments like that are left open). There should be no gray area in murder, it either has the potential to be a person or doesn't. About enforcing a no-abortion law, the only way to fix that is to raise our society's falling moral standards and convince women that abortions are wrong. And it IS worth it to save the lives of millions of children. And finally, I know that I, as a guy, have no clue about the agony of giving birth. But isn't it worth it to save a child's life, even if you individually don't want it. Many women regret the rest of their lives the abortion they commited. And no, I don't think all people who have abortions are the devil, but we should end it now before any more die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeSu Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I think abortion is awful. It's murder, and the mother does not have the right to decide if that baby lives or dies just because it is in her body. From the moment the sperm and egg join, you have all the DNA to make a full and complete person. The only reason I can possibly think of to abort a child is if the mother's life is in danger and she agrees to. Even the rape thing doesn't hold water with me. I say put it up for adoption if you don't want it, just don't kill it. On another note, the debate on if you can kill a fetus because it is not alive yet scares the crap out of me. If you can decide that a fetus is not alive yet, can you say I'm not a person yet and can be killed because I'm not an adult (I'm not saying that that is what any of you pro-choice people is saying, just that the potential for future arguments like that are left open). There should be no gray area in murder, it either has the potential to be a person or doesn't. About enforcing a no-abortion law, the only way to fix that is to raise our society's falling moral standards and convince women that abortions are wrong. And it IS worth it to save the lives of millions of children. And finally, I know that I, as a guy, have no clue about the agony of giving birth. But isn't it worth it to save a child's life, even if you individually don't want it. Many women regret the rest of their lives the abortion they commited. And no, I don't think all people who have abortions are the devil, but we should end it now before any more die. Personally I think it's wrong to deny people the choice. The baby has no emotions yet, no feelings. It's just a living thing. It's mental ability is less than that of an animal, and you already know humans have no problems killing those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Judy Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I think abortion is awful. It's murder, and the mother does not have the right to decide if that baby lives or dies just because it is in her body. From the moment the sperm and egg join, you have all the DNA to make a full and complete person. The only reason I can possibly think of to abort a child is if the mother's life is in danger and she agrees to. Even the rape thing doesn't hold water with me. I say put it up for adoption if you don't want it, just don't kill it. Adoption has it problems too. Just saying. Sometimes children are adopted to the wrong families and it does happen. Hundreds of cases are brought to court, where the social workers have discovered alot of these people who adopt children have abused them on a daily basis. Adopting I think it’s not the solution for some circumstances. Yes the child does live, but its important if that child has a nice life. No point saving the child's life when its goanna end up enduring a miserable life :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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