Book IV Official Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Sentinel07]

Well, that was quite a chapter. Plumeria's backstory had more going for it than I thought it would. In all honesty, I didn't think they'd give her much of a backstory.

Open cutscene did have me laughing though, particularly at Alfonse drawing the line before Sharena could go any further.

The mystery with Sharena goes even further. Now to wait at least another month.

[Etrurian emperor]

Oh wow....everyone getting lewd for Alfonse. Even Sharena kinda. I'm surprised lewd fairy's domain actually got depicted like that. 

While the setting is a bit wacky I feel like book 4 not only utilizes it a lot better then book 3 but it also utilizes its setting in ways that book 3 was supposed to do. It raises dead characters to attack the living like book 3 should have done and unlike the rather mundane marsh of the underworld I think the nightmare realm looks much more dark and imposing. 

[DefyingFates]

3 hours ago, Sentinel07 said:

Well, that was quite a chapter. Plumeria's backstory had more going for it than I thought it would. In all honesty, I didn't think they'd give her much of a backstory.

Yeah, especially considering so far she's just been the fanservice character. It makes me wonder what Triandra's story will be, considering she's actually had a bit of intrigue built behind her.

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I'm surprised lewd fairy's domain actually got depicted like that.

Well, there's talking about the sort of thing Plumeria represents and actually showing it. I'm glad they went for the family friendly interpretation.

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

While the setting is a bit wacky I feel like book 4 not only utilizes it a lot better then book 3 but it also utilizes its setting in ways that book 3 was supposed to do. It raises dead characters to attack the living like book 3 should have done and unlike the rather mundane marsh of the underworld I think the nightmare realm looks much more dark and imposing.

Agreed! Which is weird, considering Dokkalfheimr (minus the killer vines, obviously) actually looks beautiful. The glowing mushrooms and flowers give it a really nice ambience. I agree that the setting is being used much better this time too.

As for Sharena coming onto Alfonse...yeah, I'm thankful he cut her off. We don't need any more incest jokes in this fandom xD

[Othin]

Interesting chapter. I continue to like how Book 4 has a real sense of progression, rather than just "here's the invincible enemy, run around until you find a way to kill them" like Books 2-3 or "run around doing nothing" like Book 1.

My guess is that the midpoint stuff is just, Chapters 1-7 were the first half, now 8-13 are the second half. I don't think it'll be longer than usual. 

[Mercakete]

22 hours ago, SuperNova125 said:

I remembered her dialogue with Freyr where she was more playful and associated her with a more young appearance. However our of all the book 4 OCs she and her brother seem the most "mature" to me. 

Now that I can look at her appearance more closely, she doesn't look quite as young as I first thought, either. It just went by so fast in that trailer that the facial proportions really stuck out. Thumbnails are handy.

Note: I haven't played through the new story yet. Totally forgot about it amid all the other new stuff. 😅

[XRay]

Who knew Alfonse was such a stud?

1 hour ago, DefyingFates said:

As for Sharena coming onto Alfonse...yeah, I'm thankful he cut her off. We don't need any more incest jokes in this fandom xD

But memes and jokes are fun, and I am glad Intelligent Systems gave us more materials for them.

[Othin]

12 minutes ago, XRay said:

Who knew Alfonse was such a stud?

But memes and jokes are fun, and I am glad Intelligent Systems gave us more materials for them.

Not everyone likes every joke. Personally, I think this one is rather played out. 

[Ottservia]

2 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

As for Sharena coming onto Alfonse...yeah, I'm thankful he cut her off. We don't need any more incest jokes in this fandom xD

With how rampant little sister anime are within the current industry, seeing something somewhat self-aware like this is still pretty funny

[GrandeRampel]

Wow, that was quite a chapter. Was Sharena Kronya'd? That's weird and interesting. Being a Kronya without knowing it. I wonder what Alfonse reaction to it would be if it turns out to be the truth.

And if Peony really turns out to be the real princess of Askr that's a good excuse to give her space in Forging Bonds even more than the Nifl siblings (F for Eir and her relevance).

 

And Plumeria's backstory is quite mature and interesting. Isn't it nice that we have a reason for why she hates humans instead of it just being "I'M A BAD GUY" like Surtr and Hel?

Honestly I get not liking the themes and locations of this book for subjective reasons. But objectively speaking it seems to be shaping out to be the better written book by far.

As long as they don't drop the ball at the end with tha characterizations of Freyr and Freya.

[DefyingFates]

28 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

As long as they don't drop the ball at the end with tha characterizations of Freyr and Freya.

Agreed. And as long as they don't rush the ending, which is the only issue I had with Book 3.

29 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

Wow, that was quite a chapter. Was Sharena Kronya'd? That's weird and interesting. Being a Kronya without knowing it.

Wouldn't it be all kinds of messed up/ evil if Sharena knew she was a changeling and has just been playing dumb all this time? xD

Seriously though, while I'm expecting a fake out with the whole changeling thing, if she was it'd provide a neat in-universe reason for why she's so whimsical all the time, I suppose.

[GrandeRampel]

1 minute ago, DefyingFates said:

Agreed. And as long as they don't rush the ending, which is the only issue I had with Book 3.

Wouldn't it be all kinds of messed up/ evil if Sharena knew she was a changeling and has just been playing dumb all this time? xD

Seriously though, while I'm expecting a fake out with the whole changeling thing, if she was it'd provide a neat in-universe reason for why she's so whimsical all the time, I suppose.

LOL, it would be funny but it's impossible. Too OoC, and nobody can keep a charade up for so long.

But another thing I thought of is that Sharena turning out to be a fairy would be a perfect excuse to give us Legendary!Sharena! If she can grow wings and learn Fairy Magic.

After all we have a Mythic Alfonse and a Mythic Veronica. We need Legendary/Mythic versions of Sharena and Bruno too!

[DefyingFates]

1 hour ago, GrandeRampel said:

But another thing I thought of is that Sharena turning out to be a fairy would be a perfect excuse to give us Legendary!Sharena! If she can grow wings and learn Fairy Magic.

If so, I hope she's the free unit for Book 5. It'd be neat if Book 4 ended with her getting her fairy powers so Peony takes her to Ljosalfheimr to train until then.

Still, as much as I'm enjoying Book 4 I doubt they'd do anything that special..😕

[Sentinel07]

5 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

If so, I hope she's the free unit for Book 5. It'd be neat if Book 4 ended with her getting her fairy powers so Peony takes her to Ljosalfheimr to train until then.

Still, as much as I'm enjoying Book 4 I doubt they'd do anything that special..😕

Honestly, probably the biggest thing stopping me from really going all in on theories like this is that Heroes story kind of suffers from "Pokemon anime syndrome" to an extent. That there is continuity between the books, but they seem too afraid to change the status quo too much.

Heck, you look at Book 4 and it's all too easy to forget Askr lost its king in the last book.

[Etrurian emperor]

I don't think I'd really appreciate it if Sharena turned out to be a fairy. Sharena and Alfonse seem to have a pretty tight sibling bond going on between them and while any origins of Sharena wouldn't remove that I do think it would detract from it a little bit, while also giving an opening to make their relation a lot less wholesome. Plus it would slightly take away from Henrietta. She's designed after Sharena, her husband is designed after Alfonse. That wouldn't exactly work if Sharena is just some stranger that showed up one day. 

[Othin]

4 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I don't think I'd really appreciate it if Sharena turned out to be a fairy. Sharena and Alfonse seem to have a pretty tight sibling bond going on between them and while any origins of Sharena wouldn't remove that I do think it would detract from it a little bit, while also giving an opening to make their relation a lot less wholesome. Plus it would slightly take away from Henrietta. She's designed after Sharena, her husband is designed after Alfonse. That wouldn't exactly work if Sharena is just some stranger that showed up one day. 

The point of changelings is that they match appearance, so if that were to be the case, the original Sharena would still look the same.

[DefyingFates]

1 hour ago, Sentinel07 said:

That there is continuity between the books, but they seem too afraid to change the status quo too much.

Yeah, this is my sticking point too. Either this is all one huge red herring or we get a Seymour Skinner scenario where everyone just rolls with our Sharena being the real (and still human) Sharena going forward. I wouldn't mind that actually, since the changeling thing would still be part of the canon.

Edited June 6, 2020 by DefyingFates

[Sentinel07]

40 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Yeah, this is my sticking point too. Either this is all one huge red herring or we get a Seymour Skinner scenario where everyone just rolls with our Sharena being the real (and still human) Sharena going forward. I wouldn't mind that actually, since the changeling thing would still be part of the canon.

On a somewhat similar note, that reminds me of something.

I kind of wish that they could somehow update the playable Alfonse and Sharena we have now as far as quotes go. It's kind of jarring to look at Alfonse's quotes which still portray him as he was when the game began and he's not much like that anymore in the main story.

[DefyingFates]

14 minutes ago, Sentinel07 said:

I kind of wish that they could somehow update the playable Alfonse and Sharena we have now as far as quotes go. It's kind of jarring to look at Alfonse's quotes which still portray him as he was when the game began and he's not much like that anymore in the main story.

IS hears your wish and grants you a Resplendent Askr Trio.

Now that you mention it, it would be nice for the OCs to get updated lines, huh? Granted, nothing warranted it in Books 1 and 2, but Alfonse went through a lot in 3; you're right that he's not really the same benchwarmer everyone overlooked back then.

Edited June 6, 2020 by DefyingFates

[Sentinel07]

49 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

IS hears your wish and grants you a Resplendent Askr Trio.

Now that you mention it, it would be nice for the OCs to get updated lines, huh? Granted, nothing warranted it in Books 1 and 2, but Alfonse went through a lot in 3; you're right that he's not really the same benchwarmer everyone overlooked back then.

You know, something along the lines what Respendant Heroes do would actually be a pretty seamless way to implement such a thing without having to release an entirely new unit. :)

 

[Mercakete]

Okay, peeps, I finally played through the story chapter and THERE ARE THINGS TO UNPACK.

1. Did I not say that Sharena was a changeling? Did I not say that Sharena was a changeling? DiD I nOt SaY-?!

Anyway, yeah, pretty gosh darn sure that Sharena's a changeling, though obviously Peony's not the real Sharena. More on Peony later. Anyway, pretty sure that Fairy Sharena has the same name as Princess Sharena, and that she actually succeeded in replacing her, but to such an extent that she actually thinks that she is the real Sharena. Well, except now she's having doubts. I also bet that we'll get a fairy Sharena as a summonable mythic somewhere down the line (in much the same way we got Lif despite having regular Alfonse.) Technically, she's from a different world, so she'll be summonable. She obviously has a design, which you can briefly see in the book 4.5 movie when Sharena walks by a mirror.

Alternate theory: Fairy Sharena let Princess Sharena keep her life in Askr, having a sudden change of heart, or, Sharena didn't actually drink the special nectar that would "turn her into a hero." Maybe it got spilled or she had second thoughts or whatever, but it's pretty well-known fairy lore that if you eat or drink something in the fairy realm, then you're trapped there and fairies can replace you. More on this later, but if Sharena didn't drink the stuff, she probably managed to go home just fine. Plus, the fairy in the mirror...it was a bit hard to tell, but she looked like a Dokkalfr to me.

Since every fairy represents a kind of dream, I do wonder what dream Sharena represents. Peony is happy dreams, nightmare fairy is scary and sad dreams, Plumeria is lewd dreams, Mirabilis is daydreams, and Sharena could be...well, if she really is a changeling, and considering how she acts, perhaps that means she's "dreams come true?" Or maybe "dreams" as in "hopes." So, "the hopeful dream."

2. So, Peony and nightmare fairy used to be regular kids. Kind of. They're obviously the other two voices from the flashbacks -- the ones who were sent on a "grand adventure" and drank the special nectar to turn them into heroes...which I guess it did since it turned them into fairies and thus made them playable/fightable characters in this game. Further, nightmare fairy is the sister of Peony. They were probably replaced by changelings, just like Sharena. Was there ever really a threat to the dream world, or did Freyja make that up in order to trap the kids there? Was Freyr even actually there when the kids were "sent on their mission?" We only read dialogue, after all. We didn't technically see anything. I'm a bit torn on this one, based on the mid-book movie. I'll explain that one later.

3. THE DARKNESS. There obviously was darkness of some sort. In the flashbacks, it was a sort of looming threat that Frejya sent little girls (Peony, nightmare fairy, and Sharena) to go destroy with superpowers they'd get from special nectar. But was this really the case, or was Freyja lying in order to trap them in the dream realm? I have a few theories on this. One is one I've said before on here (but is now refined with the new information from the 4.5 trailer.) It could be that there really was a darkness, the kids failed to defeat it, and Freyja either took a hit from it (probably in order to shield someone) or absorbed it into herself. Sometime after that is when what we see in the movie takes place. Either way, it's obvious that Freyja has been tainted by some sort of darkness when she appears in the movie with Freyr. I'll explain that a bit more in a sec here.

In this last chapter, Plumeria's power is shown in full. (Poor, poor Alfonse.) She basically has the power to make people feel suddenly and intensely physically attracted to people. She got that power from Freyja. It's obvious that Freyja experiences similar emotions toward Freyr. I'm seeing a thread here. That power came from and comes from the dark power within Freyja, which is, evidently, affecting her, too. She seems more like a carrier than the true source of this darkness. Also, in the 4.5 movie, it seems like Freyja is coming onto her brother, and Freyr rejects her advances. Freyja takes this rather hard, as darkness kind of explodes from inside of her and infects her surroundings, turning it into the nightmare realm. Freyr escapes (possibly by falling asleep or whatever?) Anyway, she clearly feels very sad, and possibly kind of angry. Sound familiar? Yup -- she definitely empowers the nightmare fairy (Peony's sister) with this dark power, too. We may find more nightmares as we go (for example, "the broken dream" which may be a Dokkalfr version of the Sharena fairy, especially if the Sharena fairy failed in her mission to replace Sharena, and hence her "dream" was "broken," just like Freyja's darkness-fueled dream of...things Freyr didn't want. It would make sense that this fairy is either somewhat exiled, wandering the nightmare realm for failing her mission, or kept close since she resembles Freyja's feelings the most accurately. If she exists, of course. Sharena could just completely be a changeling. ... Maybe we'll see tiny Sharena somewhere in the nightmare realm. Or maybe she grew up. Who knows? Depends on if the Sharena Alfonse grew up with is actually a changeling or not.)

Whether Freyja is the actual source of the darkness or was inflicted by it, or if it's just bad feelings/desires that she entertained instead of trying to deal with them and move past them, or if she was inflicted by some mass of dark energy, it was definitely not contained by her at one point, and is why she's the queen of nightmares, and why the nightmare realm exists.

4. It could be that the first fairies after Freyja and Freyr were Peony, nightmare fairy, and Sharena. In this chapter, Plumeria's origin story was explained (though, since it was explained by Freyja, how truthful/accurate it is comes into question.) Assuming Freyja was telling the truth, why Plumeria simultaneously hates and can't separate herself from lewd desires makes a lot of sense. (Psychological issues through abuse and abandonment can make it hard to get rid of something, even if you hate it and recognize it as bad, and especially so if it directly affects your brain chemistry. Plus, both of her parents seemed to be slaves to such desires, and so she may be keeping to it in an unconscious effort to please and "win back" her parents.) Anyway, if Freyja's story is to be believed, then there wasn't necessarily a fairy who took the place of child Plumeria. She was just turned into a fairy and that was that. So, she may be the most recent addition to the fairy ranks, without the need for a changeling fairy.

5. Following the last bit, Miribilis might have been turned into a fairy before or a little after Sharena, Peony, and nightmare fairy since she wasn't turned into a Dokkalfr and Freyr doesn't seem interested in turning kids into fairies. I could be wrong on this front, though. After all, Freyr's still the fairy king. Maybe he turned her into one in the hopes that he could somehow defeat the darkness plaguing his sister. It seems like, even if he had this hope before, though, he's since given it up. Clearly, when Freyja created the nightmare realm, Freyr managed to protect part of the dream world (along with several light fairies), which became the land of good dreams. His stance is largely defensive, pouring his energy into protecting the light instead of fighting the dark. This is hinted at in Peony's dialogue, where she mentions that he defends the land of dreams and that he protects the light fairies (if I'm remembering that right.) Sharena's return (especially if she really is "the hopeful dream") is likely the catalyst that will turn the tide (since it seems like Freyr's lost hope) and may yet rescue Freyja from the darkness that comes from her. (I mean, even in her art it looks like thorny vines are coming out from behind her. This is clearly not healthy, and on several levels.)

6. That may pretty much be the end of it, but there's another possible connection I see regarding Freyja. It's already been established that she has the hots for her brother. She probably wants to become a sort of family unit with him, too - having kids and everything. If Freyr didn't know about her lying to kids to turn them into fairies, (if she really was lying in order to trap them in the dream world) then she may have been doing it in order to provide children for herself in her messed-up game of house. She would be the mommy, Freyr would be the daddy, and all the lovely fairies would be their kids. It would satisfy her fantasy...but Freyr wasn't having any of it. In that scene where she's talking to Freyr, she's probably telling him about her accomplishment in collecting children for their family, along with making plain her feelings for him. Clearly, he disapproved. And then Freyja exploded with darkness.

This would also explain why she was acting so motherly to Plumeria in that scene at the end of this last chapter. She's playing the role of "mommy." (And, actually, she reminds me a lot of Camilla in how she behaves, though quite a bit worse. Pretty sure Freyja is actually very delusional.)

7. Just a small bonus note here. For some reason, Freyr's antlers caught my attention more this time. He reminds me of the Wilde Hunt, and I'm sure that's not by accident. He may have been partially inspired by him.

Now to read what other people have said on here. 🙂

 

Edit: OH RIGHT I totally forgot about that clip with Alfonse and Kiran. Maybe that's where Kiran's been all this time. It's made out to be a nightmare, but that may not be the case. Anyway, guess we find the summoner. Or, Alfonse does. Maybe it's in a sort of "no boys allowed" way, where Alfonse gets transported away to wherever Kiran was sent?

Edited June 6, 2020 by Mercakete

[SuperNova125]

Honestly, this book has to be my favourite so far. Book 3 was great but I feel the ending was way too rushed and the villian being another "force of nature" like Surtr was boring. But so far things are looking great, we are at the "middle" of the book and already we are to the nightmare world and Plumeria is out, meaning that it won't be as rushed as 3 and Freya doesn't seem to be a villian that's bad for the sake of it also her relationship with Freyr and the children "abducting" make her at least to stand out. The pacing and story is solid as well, I was reading the story again during the quests and it wasn't as boring as 2 and 3 (to a lesser extent) were. I think I like Book 4 so much mainly because it subverted my expectations (in a good way) as to what Fairy Emblem would be. 

Edited June 6, 2020 by SuperNova125

[DefyingFates]

1 hour ago, Mercakete said:

1. Did I not say that Sharena was a changeling? Did I not say that Sharena was a changeling? DiD I nOt SaY-?!

I thought of you as soon as that scene happened xD

The idea of Freyjr empowering the Dokkalfr with different parts of her own psyche is really interesting! As is the idea of what Fairy Sharena could represent: both "Dreams Come True" and "Broken Dreams" sound possible with your reasoning! What do you mean by her reflection looking like a Dokkalfr though? If we're both talking about yesterday's trailer, it was quite clearly Peony (or someone who looks like her, at least).

[Mercakete]

41 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

I thought of you as soon as that scene happened xD

The idea of Freyjr empowering the Dokkalfr with different parts of her own psyche is really interesting! As is the idea of what Fairy Sharena could represent: both "Dreams Come True" and "Broken Dreams" sound possible with your reasoning! What do you mean by her reflection looking like a Dokkalfr though? If we're both talking about yesterday's trailer, it was quite clearly Peony (or someone who looks like her, at least).

Thank you! 😊

Regarding Sharena's reflection, I only saw her quickly, so I only have a vague memory of what she looked like, but I thought her wings looked purple-y and shadowy towards where they connected to her back. The image looked to have more shadowy-ness in general, actually, but I didn't exactly have much time to commit the image to memory, so this could just be me not recalling visual data accurately.

[Sentinel07]

4 hours ago, SuperNova125 said:

Honestly, this book has to be my favourite so far. Book 3 was great but I feel the ending was way too rushed and the villian being another "force of nature" like Surtr was boring. But so far things are looking great, we are at the "middle" of the book and already we are to the nightmare world and Plumeria is out, meaning that it won't be as rushed as 3 and Freya doesn't seem to be a villian that's bad for the sake of it also her relationship with Freyr and the children "abducting" make her at least to stand out. The pacing and story is solid as well, I was reading the story again during the quests and it wasn't as boring as 2 and 3 (to a lesser extent) were. I think I like Book 4 so much mainly because it subverted my expectations (in a good way) as to what Fairy Emblem would be. 

The pacing is definitely much better, and even if we're still in the same 13 chapters format, I think they'll do a better job of wrapping them up.

As you mentioned, we already got Plumeria's story out of the way. All that's really left is Triandra's story (presumably alongside Peony if that trailer is any indication). Sharena's fole, and what's up with Freyr and Freyja. Got at minimum 5 more chapters to do it.

Assuming we don't get time wasted with another "we gotta find this rite to beat the bad guy" like they did with Surtr and Hel.

[DefyingFates]

2 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Thank you! 😊

Regarding Sharena's reflection, I only saw her quickly, so I only have a vague memory of what she looked like, but I thought her wings looked purple-y and shadowy towards where they connected to her back. The image looked to have more shadowy-ness in general, actually, but I didn't exactly have much time to commit the image to memory, so this could just be me not recalling visual data accurately.

That explains it then!

Yeah, her reflection is Peony. She's in a purple room though, maybe your mind conflated the two?