Harvey Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) Ok so we know that Fire Emblem is TRPG series where its tactics adding role playing elements. But would you like to see a spin off where the universe of Fire Emblem is practically a huge world and it plays more of a JRPG where you have turn based combat and doing several sidequests with more dialoge and cutscenes kinda like Xenoblade style? Personally, I would like to see a spin off like that not because it can help Nintendo fill more of the RPG market but because with how the Mario RPG series are gonna be dormant from this point on after the last Paper Mario game bombed and that the Mario and Luigi series is doubtful now that Alphadream is gone, a spin off relating to Fire Emblem could atleast be nice and could fill the empty void of the Mario RPG absence to me atleast. Nintendo already has two developers who are experienced in RPG games. Monolith and to some extent, Intelligent Systems. While the latter might not have experience writing great depth stories, they can make the mechanics interesting to say the least such as adding support scenes instead of conversations or depending on who you recruit, some of the game changes etc. Edited January 22, 2020 by Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulously Olivier Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 I mean, this is what TMS should have been instead of idol garbage. I'm not sure which series would make for the best crossover to make that happen with Persona/SMT out of the way. Maybe an Octopath type crossover in the FE Heroes universe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Etheus said: I mean, this is what TMS should have been instead of idol garbage. I'm not sure which series would make for the best crossover to make that happen with Persona/SMT out of the way. Maybe an Octopath type crossover in the FE Heroes universe? I'm still salty that the Fire Emblem-Pokemon crossover strategy game didn't happen because Pokemon Conquest was already a thing. Anyway, I wouldn't be too keen on it, as I don't find turn based rpgs to be particularly engaging unless they have some very good gimmicks. But if I had to pick one, Octopath or Bravely Default would probably be the best framework to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ertrick36 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 53 minutes ago, Harvey said: with how the Mario RPG series are gonna be dormant from this point on after the last Paper Mario game bombed I blame the oversaturation of uninteresting BUP bois when the older games had characters like Geno or Goombette which added flavor and spice to the Mario RPG world. I remember when a SRPG series did a JRPG spin-off... It was called "Valkyria Revolution", and it went poorly. Then again, Valkyria Chronicles was plagued with a limited library of games to choose from, while FE is hardly hurting for games. But really, though. It's been a long time since I've done traditional JRPGs. I'm just not into the classic turn-based combat anymore unless they do something to spice it up (and it seems like it's the same case for a lot of people, because the best turn-based JRPGs always seem to have something more to them than just classic turn-based JRPG combat). Not sure if FE has anything that can be worked with - something to give a JRPG the same kind of appeal that normal FE games have. But if they managed that, then sure, I'd play it. But I won't hold my breath for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whase Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 There are a lot of spin-offs I want for FE, but JRPG isn't one of them. I just don't think it would be very interesting. (Though I would love to be corrected by Nintendo/IS) Now, a Fire Emblem Tower Defense game, that would be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainer_derp Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 I think that the tactics part of TRPG is the most important part of FE's identity, so I don't think that a traditional JRPG would be able to capture the same feel. Although they could go the #FE and FEW route and use spinoffs as a crossover between the games. On an unrelated note, where is my FExSoulcalibur? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Honestly, i want it the other way around. Other game crossover'd with FE in a FE like combat/SRPG. Imagine Smash Emblem, or 2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said: I'm still salty that the Fire Emblem-Pokemon crossover strategy game didn't happen because Pokemon Conquest was already a thing. if this happened Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benice Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, whase said: Now, a Fire Emblem Tower Defense game, that would be awesome FEH is proably going to have a tower defense event one day. I think it'd be cool if they included arcade-type stuff in Heroes, but I'd understad why they wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterIceTeaPeach Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) Please no, just no to, a Pokémon x Fire Emblem crossover. Seeing humans with Pikachu and other monsters together seriously would break my heart. It is ok in a crossover where multiple franchises are represented like Smash, but only these two simply would not work for me. I might be a disliker of Pokémon, but my post would apply to any other monster or robot series as well. Edited January 22, 2020 by Rosalina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 I'm pretty sure TMS is still a JRPG at the end of it. What does it have, or lacks, that disqualifies it as a JRPG? Same for the category of "pure JRPG", for that matter. What does it even entails? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Etheus said: I mean, this is what TMS should have been instead of idol garbage. It still is a solid JRPG, the modern Japanese entertainment stuff is aesthetics and narrative alone. There is no career management of idols, there is no rhythm game stuff at all, there is nothing from a purely gameplay perspective that says "what you'd do in an idol game". You have every right to hate the narrative/world choice that TMS made, it's very understandable why people would dislike it. I was a raging hater of the game when the first real trailer of what Fire Emblem X Shin Megami Tensei actually was emerged. But do not discredit the JRPG gameplay, that is solid Atlus style. Technically, there have been JRPGs with grids in their battles, which FE would like. But not a lot of games, and not exactly done with great nuance. Edited January 22, 2020 by Interdimensional Observer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe02 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 I've always considered Fire Emblem to be an JRPG. I don't believe it being Tactical stops it from being one. I wouldn't mind a spin-off, but I would much rather they take all that energy and make us a new game instead if I'm being honest here haha. Personally I don't see many Tactical RPGs, let alone play one. So to me, the tactical aspect is what makes Fire Emblem what it is for me. But of course, I would give a spin-off a try if IS were to make one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulously Olivier Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: It still is a solid JRPG, the modern Japanese entertainment stuff is aesthetics and narrative alone. There is no career management of idols, there is no rhythm game stuff at all, there is nothing from a purely gameplay perspective that says "what you'd do in an idol game". You have every right to hate the narrative/world choice that TMS made, it's very understandable why people would dislike it. I was a raging hater of the game when the first real trailer of what Fire Emblem X Shin Megami Tensei actually was emerged. But do not discredit the JRPG gameplay, that is solid Atlus style. Technically, there have been JRPGs with grids in their battles, which FE would like. But not a lot of games, and not exactly done with great nuance. It absolutely wasn't a comment on the gameplay of TMS. However, aesthetics and setting are important, and a FE crossover should be done in a manner which does not disrespect the source material, which, in my opinion, TMS did and did so brazenly. Ironically, Three Houses is closer to a Persona x Fire Emblem crossover than TMS #FE is, and it is basically what I would want from such a game tonally, aesthetically, and in terms of non-combat gameplay. If you took that and changed the gameplay to traditional turn-based JRPG gameplay, you'd have what TMS could have and should have been. Edited January 22, 2020 by Etheus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, Etheus said: However, aesthetics and setting are important, and a FE crossover should be done in a manner which does not disrespect the source material, which, in my opinion, TMS did and did so brazenly. Lovely. Either figure out how to word your opinions more diplomatically, or keep them to yourself. I don't see the "disrespect" in regards to idol culture and FE. Nor am I interested in hearing how you managed to jump to such a flawed conclusion. --- That being said, FE finally figured out how to make most of the characters relevant. For a FE JRPG to work, the general writing, character development, and plot progression needs to be vastly improved, while the cast size needs to be drastically shrunk. 3H shows that there's a bit of potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulously Olivier Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 minute ago, eclipse said: Lovely. Either figure out how to word your opinions more diplomatically, or keep them to yourself. I don't see the "disrespect" in regards to idol culture and FE. Nor am I interested in hearing how you managed to jump to such a flawed conclusion. --- That being said, FE finally figured out how to make most of the characters relevant. For a FE JRPG to work, the general writing, character development, and plot progression needs to be vastly improved, while the cast size needs to be drastically shrunk. 3H shows that there's a bit of potential. With all due respect, "keep your opinions to yourself" is not diplomatic. It's actually extemely unkind and dismissive. Was it warranted, when no personal insults, attacks, or even remarks were intended or given? And I think my fair explanation is warranted, regardless of whether or not you are interested in my "flawed conclusion." (Consider it not for you, because it isn't.) Idols are fine. Idol culture is fine, and no insults or "lack of diplomacy" are intended upon them. But they are not part of the aesthetics, time period, or culture of the Fire Emblem franchise. That's important. They are disrespectful to the source material because they are out of place, just as say... dropping a spaceship into the middle of Ylisse might be. Would you consider a random spaceship in the middle of Ylisse respectful to the plot, tone, or aesthetic of the franchise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, Etheus said: With all due respect, "keep your opinions to yourself" is not diplomatic. It's actually extemely unkind and dismissive. Was it warranted, when no personal insults, attacks, or even remarks were intended or given? And I think my fair explanation is warranted, regardless of whether or not you are interested in my "flawed conclusion." (Consider it not for you, because it isn't.) Idols are fine. Idol culture is fine, and no insults or "lack of diplomacy" are intended upon them. But they are not part of the aesthetics, time period, or culture of the Fire Emblem franchise. That's important. They are disrespectful to the source material because they are out of place, just as say... dropping a spaceship into the middle of Ylisse might be. Would you consider a random spaceship in the middle of Ylisse respectful to the plot, tone, or aesthetic of the franchise? You're the one that walked into this topic and said "idol garbage". Next time I have to remind you of this will be via a warning. And honestly? I don't take FE seriously enough to care about the supposed setting. It's a game FFS. It's not going to rewrite history, and I don't imagine it will worm its way into high school English classes as an example of literature. Step back and re-evaluate your priorities, because being warned for a bad attitude about things you don't like is an utter waste of both of our time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flere210 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 A spaceship in Awakening is actually fine tho. Just make Lucina comes from 1000 years in the future instead of 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulously Olivier Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, Flere210 said: A spaceship in Awakening is actually fine tho. Just make Lucina comes from 1000 years in the future instead of 20. I chuckled. It would require a rather large rewriting of the story in general, but that wouldn't exactly be a random spaceship anymore. Random is something of an operative word. Awakening would certainly be a very different game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 25 minutes ago, Etheus said: However, aesthetics and setting are important, and an FEH crossover should be done in a manner which does not disrespect the source material, which, in my opinion, TMS did and did so brazenly. Absolutely see your point here. RPGs are often known for their narratives, and even non-RPGs/interactive novels/adventure games like an immersive world. I would say less "brazenly disrespect" as "outright ignore", but thats just me and a preference for gentler terms. Or, perhaps it's more than that. Like the difference between amoral and immoral.: Amorality being without regard for and or against morality. Neutrality in morals. Immorality is consciously acting against morality of some kind. "Brazenly disrespect" would require acts of blatant rejection of "FE"- however one defines that in this case- which I don't see. TMS is "amoral", not "immoral"? TMS is a double orphan in this aspect, since it doesn't exactly represent SMT themes either. I don't recall Kiria torture-murder-dissecting humans in the name of Chaos or Yashiro brainwashing humans into Law fanatics. And since Persona I'm aware usually has psyche stuff involved which TMS doesn't have, so it might be considered a triple orphan actually. 25 minutes ago, Etheus said: Ironically, Three Houses is closer to a Persona x Fire Emblem crossover than TMS #FE is, and it is basically what I would want from such a game tonally, aesthetically, and in terms of non-combat gameplay. If you took that and changed the gameplay to traditional turn-based JRPG gameplay, you'd have what TMS could have and should have been. And aesthetically, Male Byleth is Vincent from Catherine. Okay so they took some hair dye and increased its volume on closer examination, but it's close enough for me as an inside joke for one.😅 More seriously, the non-combat gameplay of 3H is being what is and the school setting in particular, were things that did not sit well with me. But, if you married those same things to non-traditional FE gameplay, maybe I'd be more receptive, but only maybe because I have no interest in post-2 Persona. Life-sim is just not appealing. But, marry CDE to an SMT alignment system though with me still as B, and maybe I'd give them the time of day. But can Sothis turn out to be Masakado or Lucifier or Gabriel then? With them never returning to loli form after they reveal their true identity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulously Olivier Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: Absolutely see your point here. RPGs are often known for their narratives, and even non-RPGs/interactive novels/adventure games like an immersive world. I would say less "brazenly disrespect" as "outright ignore", but thats just me and a preference for gentler terms. Or, perhaps it's more than that. Like the difference between amoral and immoral.: Amorality being without regard for and or against morality. Neutrality in morals. Immorality is consciously acting against morality of some kind. "Brazenly disrespect" would require acts of blatant rejection of "FE"- however one defines that in this case- which I don't see. TMS is "amoral", not "immoral"? TMS is a double orphan in this aspect, since it doesn't exactly represent SMT themes either. I don't recall Kiria torture-murder-dissecting humans in the name of Chaos or Yashiro brainwashing humans into Law fanatics. And since Persona I'm aware usually has psyche stuff involved which TMS doesn't have, so it might be considered a triple orphan actually. And aesthetically, Male Byleth is Vincent from Catherine. Okay so they took some hair dye and increased its volume on closer examination, but it's close enough for me as an inside joke for one.😅 More seriously, the non-combat gameplay of 3H is being what is and the school setting in particular, were things that did not sit well with me. But, if you married those same things to non-traditional FE gameplay, maybe I'd be more receptive, but only maybe because I have no interest in post-2 Persona. Life-sim is just not appealing. But, marry CDE to an SMT alignment system though with me still as B, and maybe I'd give them the time of day. But can Sothis turn out to be Masakado or Lucifier or Gabriel then? With them never returning to loli form after they reveal their true identity? I'm personally a fan of rhetorical hyperbole, and while some here clearly take that as undiplomatic, I find my expression is unfairly censored in that regard. No harm or insult is meant, usually, and I'm completely willing to explain. Also, amoral may be softer than immoral, but it certainly has substantial baggage. Enough to make it a hard word itself. My feelings towards TMS are disappointment. Not contempt per say. Just... disappointment. I love Fire Emblem. I love Persona. And in this case, they just didn't mesh as well as they could have. That doesn't make TMS a bad game, and I certainly didn't mean to label it such. I think heart went into it. It's just... disappointing. Also, I don't see the Byleth art comparison. I'm not saying it isn't there. Just not seeing it. But then, that one is probably on me. I'm not exactly the most perceptive person on small details; I see a different hair color, a different eye color, and a different facial expression and see a different character as a result. 56 minutes ago, eclipse said: You're the one that walked into this topic and said "idol garbage". Next time I have to remind you of this will be via a warning. And honestly? I don't take FE seriously enough to care about the supposed setting. It's a game FFS. It's not going to rewrite history, and I don't imagine it will worm its way into high school English classes as an example of literature. Step back and re-evaluate your priorities, because being warned for a bad attitude about things you don't like is an utter waste of both of our time. It's not Shakespeare... but... some of us value our immersion differently and I kindly ask that you consider that rather than dismissing it. By no means am I suggesting that you must value these things as much as I do, but it also isn't wrong for me to value thematic consistency in my franchises, and they don't have to literally be literary landmarks to do so. Let me put it this way. The entire point of a franchise is familiarity. When something stands out as unfamiliar, that may or may not be wrong. It may or may not work. It may be an improvement. It may be a mistake. Some of us may or may not be put off by it. It's the entire reason why the FE fanbase is divided. The games are very much mechanically innovated on. It's not just a linear quality improvement. But generally speaking, tone and aesthetics have remained consistently grounded in one type of setting. That's part of the franchise's identity as much as the tiles are. Edited January 22, 2020 by Etheus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, Etheus said: It's not Shakespeare... but... some of us value our immersion differently and I kindly ask that you consider that rather than dismissing it. By no means am I suggesting that you must value these things as much as I do, but it also isn't wrong for me to value thematic consistency in my franchises, and they don't have to literally be literary landmarks to do so. Let me put it this way. The entire point of a franchise is familiarity. When something stands out as unfamiliar, that may or may not be wrong. It may or may not work. It may be an improvement. It may be a mistake. Some of us may or may not be put off by it. It's the entire reason why the FE fanbase is divided. The games are very much mechanically innovated on. It's not just a linear quality improvement. But generally speaking, tone and aesthetics have remained consistently grounded in one type of setting. That's part of the franchise's identity as much as the tiles are. You don't get to dismiss other people's feelings for the sake of your own. It doesn't mean you have to like the new stuff. But don't be a dick about disliking it. That's where the true division in the fandom lies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Branniglenn Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Does it have to be a Fire Emblem game? If they're tired of making tactics games, do something else. It doesn't have to be called "Fire Emblem". And I think they agreed with me when they changed the name of that game to Tokyo Mirage Sessions. Most Fire Emblem games give me the impression that name is a misnomer due to lack of connection to the original. The only Fire Emblem games that it seems appropriate for are the archanea games and Awakening since it has the same relic as part of the plot. And maybe there's a reused pronoun somewhere in jugdral. Kaga wanted a large enough world where there could be conflicts all over the place, but post-Kaga games want to do the Final Fantasy thing with its non-sequel sequels. Anyway, phooey on the idea that IS can't "handle" a JRPG. Swap out the tactics gameplay for menu based gameplay and bam, Phoney Fantasy. Paper Mario blows most jrpgs out of the water with its satisfying gameplay and excellent world. And I gag at the notion that a good story is somehow characteristic of the genre. If Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is what passes for good story these days, than maybe we are too hard on Fire Emblem plots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulously Olivier Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Glennstavos said: Does it have to be a Fire Emblem game? If they're tired of making tactics games, do something else. It doesn't have to be called "Fire Emblem". And I think they agreed with me when they changed the name of that game to Tokyo Mirage Sessions. Most Fire Emblem games give me the impression that name is a misnomer due to lack of connection to the original. The only Fire Emblem games that it seems appropriate for are the archanea games and Awakening since it has the same relic as part of the plot. And maybe there's a reused pronoun somewhere in jugdral. Kaga wanted a large enough world where there could be conflicts all over the place, but post-Kaga games want to do the Final Fantasy thing with its non-sequel sequels. Anyway, phooey on the idea that IS can't "handle" a JRPG. Swap out the tactics gameplay for menu based gameplay and bam, Phoney Fantasy. Paper Mario blows most jrpgs out of the water with its satisfying gameplay and excellent world. And I gag at the notion that a good story is somehow characteristic of the genre. If Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is what passes for good story these days, than maybe we are too hard on Fire Emblem plots. There are certainly things that I liked about XC2's central narrative, but I will agree that it is bogged down by quite a lot of unnecessary elements and a rather goofy DBZ-esque approach to its power curve. It tries and fails to make its antagonists intimidating when you can defeat them handily one fight, and then lose in a cutscene in the next. But as far as JRPG plots go, I've been rather liking Octopath's plot, which rather expertly goes from background/sidequests to main quest that ties everyone together. Also, YS VIII's plot has been shaping up nicely, though I haven't finished it. I'm just getting to the part where the stakes go up from island survival to... an actual plot, and that's all I'll say on that matter other than my being really drawn to this sort of end plot. Edited January 22, 2020 by Etheus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinskyHaaz Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, eclipse said: You're the one that walked into this topic and said "idol garbage". Next time I have to remind you of this will be via a warning. And honestly? I don't take FE seriously enough to care about the supposed setting. It's a game FFS. It's not going to rewrite history, and I don't imagine it will worm its way into high school English classes as an example of literature. Step back and re-evaluate your priorities, because being warned for a bad attitude about things you don't like is an utter waste of both of our time. I think we might all want to tone it down. Nobody has said anything offensive, but this is starting to feel like an attack on Etheus instead of a simple response to his opinion. Let's just try and keep it civil, and remember that people prioritize different things in stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Just now, KevinskyHaaz said: I think we might all want to tone it down. Nobody has said anything offensive, but this is starting to feel like an attack on Etheus instead of a simple response to his opinion. Let's just try and keep it civil, and remember that people prioritize different things in stories. Dude. I know you mean well. But there's a reason why I went this route. Please read the Code of Conduct, because this is technically warnable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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