Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Interdimensional Observer]

170 or so pages into the Byzantine history book, and Justinian got his lengthy chapter of 40 pages. This following an era wherein it seemed nothing short of a miracle that the Eastern Roman Empire survived. Persia to the east, Goths and Bulgars to the north, Goths and Isaurians taking over your military, scheming eunuchs and other civil servants + imperial relatives, the Western Roman Empire deader than dead. And yet, survival, with population and economic growth, growth that Justinian leveraged for his ambitions. Although the emperor the book regards as the greatest for the next 400 years is still a rollercoaster of successes and failures and successes again.

And I also started taking copious notes on the medieval siege warfare book I finished reading last week. For anyone remotely interested:

Spoiler

Chapter 11: Rules of Engagement

 

1. The Three Formalities for Declaring a Siege:
   1. Fanfare of trumpets from the besieging army
   2. Call to the besieged’s garrison to surrender and admit an envoy into the city/fort to signify their surrender.
      1. This could go deadly wrong.
         1. Rouen, 1417. Duke of Exeter on behalf of King Henry V of England sends emissary with majestic banners and heralds to the gates of Rouen. The city refuses to open up, and instead launches a fusillade and cavalry sortie against the duke’s parleying party, forced to retreat (presumably with deaths and injuries).
   3. The besiegers fire their first artillery projectile at the besieged. This is what officially begins a siege.
      1. Once a siege began, both sides were committed, equally the attackers and the defenders.
      2. If the siege was commanded by its king or prince in-person, he was honor-bound to force the place into submission. To withdraw without victory would be an admission of defeat and a severe humiliation.
      3. Duke Charles the Bold of Burgundy once surrounded a rebel-held town, abandoned it. Later claimed he hadn’t put it under siege b/c his siege guns had never fired a shot. His father Duke Philip the Good had made the same excuse at Calais thirty years earlier.
   4. Because sieges could decide entire campaigns, and cost the lives of thousands of civilians and soldiers, these formalities were necessary. Sieges were too serious to be handled in a casual manner.
2. Once the Siege is Set…
   1. Once a shot had been fired, the garrison was in a state that could have grim implications.
   2. Now, it was entirely at the discretion of the commander of the besieging army whether terms of surrender should be offered or accepted.
   3. Until the besieging commander made their final decision, the rule -unwritten, but fixed by convention- was war to the death and no quarter be given.
      1. “Anyone seeking to enter the place or give aid to those within is worthy of death, according to the laws of war”- as written by a French-Burgundian diplomat who claimed this true of Italy, yet denied it was true in France- a lie.
      2. Nancy, 1477. Duke Charles of Burgundy sought to set an example by hanging an innocent man who tried to get into the city.
      3. Pont Audemer, 1356. A messenger from Philip of Navarre attempts entry in secret into the town, gets beheaded, quartered, and hanged in front of the castle.
   4. While the attackers had to win to maintain honor, the defenders had to win to avoid being subject to the “laws of war”. Meaning- pillage, rape, murder.
      1. Melun, 1420. Not all sieges end in the aforementioned three acts.
         1. Despite having been legally handed (albeit through military might) the throne of France, Melun holds out against its legal king Henry V of England.
         2. Siege starts in July, by October fears of famine make the town decide to surrender unless aid comes from Prince Charles of France.
         3. Aid doesn’t come, so on November 17, the town surrenders, having been promised to the civilians spared and combatants would be free as well once they gave up their weapons and paid their ransoms.
         4. Only twenty unrepentant Scottish mercenaries were executed. Henry V tried to get them to surrender by bringing over King James I of Scotland, whom Henry had imprisoned at the Tower of London and brought to Melun. They still refused, and so were executed for disobedience to their own king.
3. Capitulation, Compromise, Catastrophe
   1. After weeks of combat, whatever the conventions of surrender, the lust for blood and booty was bound to be high. Both commanders knew the balance between compromise and catastrophe was a delicate one.
   2. Acre, 1291.
      1. Last stronghold of the Crusaders in the Middle East. Pope Nicholas IV calls for another crusade, receives no formal response, just the rural and urban poor of Lombardy and Tuscany, has the exiled bishop of Tripoli lead the thousands on twenty Venetian galleys to Acre.
      2. The peasant “crusaders” break the truce with the sultan in Cairo by murderous rioting that kills hundreds of Muslim traders in the city of Acre.
      3. Arab armies of unknown size with 100 siege weapons greatly outnumbered the 14000 standard foot soldiers of varying skill and 1000 elite men-at-arms the Crusaders had.
      4. Siege starts in April, over with by May 18. All by the Templar stronghold taken, which surrenders eight days later.
      5. The surrender promised that all Christians in the untaken Templar fortress would be allowed free passage back to Europe with their possessions, supervised by Mameluke soldiers.
      6. Tempers ran high, the Mamelukes began molesting women and children, slaughtered them all. The Crusaders in response cut down the Muslim flag they had agreed to place over the citadel, the sultan then ordered it attacked again, and it fell by May 30th.
4. Honor, Contracts, and Loot
   1. A commander of a city or fortress held the place for his lord. Should he surrender when there was still a chance of effective resistance, his personal honor and life were at stake.
      1. 1377-
         1. William de Weston was changed before Parliament with having traitorously surrender the castle of Outhrewyk to the Scots.
            1. He said, truthfully, that he had withstood the enemy’s cannonade.
            2. But, it was shown that money had been paid for supplies still in the castle at the time.
            3. Verdict- Guilty. Why surrender if you still have supplies, which you then sell to the enemy? Self-interest = treason.
            4. Condemned to death, but pardoned.
         2. Thomas Catrington- charged by Richard Annesley of having violated of the code of chivalry that by having sold the town of St. Sauveur le Vicomte to the French.
            1. This was a case that did not involve the king, being a case between two individual knights, with the informal lawsuit being about chivalry.
            2. Thus, it was settled with trial by combat, Annesley won, killing Catrington in a duel.
   2. Honor could be saved in a businesslike way if one had a contract drawn up.
      1. 1385, age 21, Sir Henry Percy makes a contract with the government of King Richard II of England for the captaincy of the Scottish border town of Berwick-upon-Tweed.:
         1. If the enemy should lay siege to the town and the king sends no relieving army within seven weeks of being petitioned, Percy should be free to make terms of surrender without dishonoring himself.
         2. Similar terms were found in a French captain’s contract fifty years later.
      2. Legal terms defining what honor was, was demeaning to many. Fear of a loss of knightly honor and a traitor’s death was still the single greatest motivator siege defenders to persist to their utmost limits. [So, the Camus archetype?]
   3. A recognized pattern for terms of surrender that made surrender a permissible act.:
      1. This being the case where the warring parties agreed to a cessation of hostilities for a specified period, at the end of which the commander might surrender if no relieving army had come from his side.
         1. In such a case, where the indentures (agreement) mention a specific period after which the commander may surrender without blame or dishonor, it is likely what what was considered a siege of high standing- a siege de prince.
         2. Sens, 1420 is one example of this. Two kings, two queens, and four dukes arrived, continuing the siege.
      2. If the agreed period expired without aid arriving, the commander was considered to have discharged his obligations of honor to his liege lord, and therefore could surrender.
      3. If the commander broke the terms of surrender and still hold out, the town was entirely liable to being sacked.
   4. Loot
      1. Loot was a major inducement to soldiering.
      2. In the later Middle Ages, the old feudal levy of peasant conscripts was dying, being replaced by paid, mercenary armies.
      3. To forgo a sacking meant risking the ire of the soldiery.
      4. Antioch, 1268.
         1. For 171 years, it had been the wealthiest city of the Crusader realm in Palestine [including places in modern Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon].
         2. Muslim chroniclers -not normally sympathetic to the defeat of Christians- were shocked by what Sultan Baibars of Egypt did when the city fell in May of the aforementioned year.
         3. The gates were shut and locked. Citizens in the streets were killed outright, those cowering in houses tortured for the whereabouts of their wealth, and then killed or sold into slavery. Those in the citadel fortress were mostly spared death, but enslaved.
         4. It was said that every solder in the sultan’s army left with at least one slave, the price of young women plummeted. Gold and silver piled up so high that side streets were blocked off.
5. Catastrophe Averted: Calais, 1346-8
   1. 1886- Auguste Rodin, the greatest European sculptor in centuries, finished The Burghers of Calais.
      1. The municipal government in Calais who ordered it were outraged- they wanted heroic defiance, they got suffering in defeat.
      2. Still, an artistic masterpiece.
      3. Based on an actual historic event.
   2. The Siege of Calais
      1. Edward III of England had won the Battle of Crecy against King Philip VI of France on August 26 of 1346, a glorious and famed English victory in the Hundred Years’ War.
      2. Edward turned north and arrived arrived at Calais on September 4th. At Calais, the English Channel is at its narrowest, so it’s a natural location to return to England from.
      3. Since Edward claimed to be the King of France, he demanded the town, being his subjects, open its gates for him.
      4. Jean de Vienne, the town’s commander, knew the town was small, but sand dunes and salt marshes made for strong natural defense, so he rejected Edward’s commands.
      5. Edward realizes conventional assault will fail, so he orders a siege. Never once leaving the siege, even as 1347 arrives.
         1. The Scots raid England, Edward still doesn’t leave. Was wise enough to not recruit for the French campaign from the border region, left it in capable hands.
            1. Defense not just holds, King David II of Scotland himself is taken captive and tossed in the Tower of London for ten years. Not the best day for the Scottish schiltron.
         2. Calais is too strategic to give up.
      6. The French royal army can’t break English defenses, Calais’s harbor gets blockaded.
      7. Calais surrenders unconditionally after ten months in August, starvation became too severe to continue on.
   3. After the Siege
      1. Edward III is furious with Calais. They behaved most treasonously before their rightful king. The laws of war permit him to kill everyone who can’t pay a hefty ransom on their life.
      2. Edward’s advisors ask their king to show mercy.
      3. Edward agrees to spare the peoples’ lives, if six leading citizens come before him, dressed in rags, with nooses around their necks, and the keys to the city in hand. Once the keys were surrendered, the six were to be executed.
      4. Six volunteers valiantly came forward, the people of Calais flung themselves at their would-be martyrs. The crowds followed the dead men walking as they approached Edward.
      5. Philippa of Hainault, Edward III’s wife, kneels in supplication and begs her husband to spare the men, he relents and agrees.
      6. However, the entire citizenry of Calais had to abandon the town and their property therein. They were allowed to live, but lost everything else.
   4. Other Notes
      1. Calais remained in English hands for more than 200 years, resettled with Englishmen.
      2. The entire siege cost the royal exchequer 150k pounds, when the royal income cannot have totaled more than ~80k pounds.
      3. Queen Philippa’s presence during the fateful moment was no coincidence. Because, King Edward III was outside Calais for ten months, it became the royal court.
         1. The king, dukes, earls, and great men of all kinds raised tents, pavilions, and houses out of temporary timber, as homes and as abodes of festivities.
         2. Markets were held regularly on Wednesdays and Saturdays, Flemish (modern Belgian) merchants from nearby came to set up shop.
   5. Deadly Notes
      1. Before Edward’s unexpected clemency, Calais could’ve expected the worst.
      2. Once the order approving the sacking of a town, soldiers were entitled to loot and kill at will.
      3. A general might try to impose conditions, such as banning church buildings from looting, but those conditions required officers and lieutenants rigorously enforce them.
      4. If a city fell by assault to an army that had fought its way in, the burning hot blood in the attackers meant there was virtually no hope of restraining the soldiers.
      5. A prince or commander might set up a systematic, almost disciplined, sack.
         1. Once a city was secure, the noble or royal commander might make a ceremonial entry with his entourage, head to the chief church to give thanks for the victory. The soldiers standing to arms, lining the processional route.
         2. Once the solemnities were over, the solders could break rank and plunder, murder, torture and rape at will.
      6. If a town or its garrison commander was able to negotiate an agreement, essentially of a contract of surrender, these horrors could be averted -in theory.
         1. By its terms, a place was handed over and the attacker’s claims acknowledged.
         2. It was that Calais had come to no such understanding with Edward that made Calais’s position so precarious.
         3. This justified to some the unleashing of counter-atrocities. Never a good thing.
6. Bastides and Vignerons at Risk
   1. Sacking was among the principal for going to war, as far as medieval armies themselves were concerned. The reason? Money!
      1. Medieval armies, like all armies, were expensive.
      2. Medieval rulers and their elites could not entirely pay for them. Plunder was the average soldier’s supplementary paycheck.
      3. King Henry V of England kept his troops on remarkably tight discipline.
         1. Since he claimed to be King of France, he shouldn’t pillage his own subjects if he wanted to win them over.
         2. Thanks to Parliamentary grants made over in England and taxation levied in occupied Normandy, Henry V was able to fully pay his troops, a rare phenomenon in his day, and hence they had less desire to plunder.
         3. Meanwhile, Charles VII of France, Henry’s enemy and then just a Prince, promised his army’s recruits a chance to sack Paris itself. France’s one and only capital, at the time loyal to England.
   2. A general who never permitted a sack could expect to discontent in the ranks.
      1. Plunder could make a man rich, and armies increasingly recruited professional fighting men, who were in it for the money.
      2. Fronsac, 1451.
         1. The English garrison at the bastide (fortified township) of Fronsac surrenders to French forces.
         2. The rank and file of the French army become outraged, as they learn the French command reached an agreement with the English garrison.
         3. Fronsac paid a bribe to the French officers to be spared a sacking. Sounds humane. But to the common grunt, it’s their commanders getting a share of loot, while they the poor foot soldiers are denied their rightful pay because they don’t get to plunder the town.
         4. Angry at this, the French grunts faked an assault, wherein some of them pretended to be English. Thus, they claimed, the agreement of surrender was broken, and so set about pillaging Fronsac.
7. Parades and Small-Arms Fire: Neuss, 1474-5
   1. Duke Charles the Bold of Burgundy and His Failed Siege
      1. The duke’s life was dedicated like his predecessors was dedicated to elevating his dukedom to the status of a kingdom [failed entirely, because he died without a male heir].
      2. Also very fashionable and into elaborate chivalry.
      3. Set up a siege of the German city of Neuss in June 1474, it lasted to the same time next year.
      4. As was the case in Calais for Edward III, local merchants set up stalls to supply noblemen and their retinues. Taverns, tennis courts, wine shops, all present.
      5. Jousting tournaments were common, at least one of these bouts were these fatal. One observer called it the most magnificent siege in one-hundred years -if not the most economical.
      6. A grand parade of noblemen in their finest gear armed with lances and challenging the defenders to fight in single combat officially began the siege. It wasn’t taken seriously, but siege experts used the opportunity to size up the enemy’s defenses.
      7. Still Charles’s army of 22k was almost half paid Italian professionals, many experts in siege warfare.
      8. Six months in, Charles was getting worried, Neuss still had huge stocks of food, the Rhine River carried more supplies to the city, Charles’s supplies were sunk. Even a crane-like contraption designed to hoist 300 soldiers over the walls at a time failed to deliver.
      9. As it became clear the siege would go into a second year, Duke Charles abandoned it. -But not before holding a great banquet for his allies.
8. VIII. Chivalry Underground
   1. Literally Underground
      1. If a siege-tunnel was successfully countermined, the results were usually squalid and brutal hand-to-hand combat.
      2. But there were some more civilized conventions from time to time.
      3. Limoges, 1370.
         1. John of Gaunt, second Duke of Lancaster was in his siege mines when the French defenders broke into it with their countermine.
         2. When he met a worthy opponent in the dark, dirty, and chaotic environment, he asked “Art thou count or baron?”. To which he received the reply “Neither, I am but a poor knight” (and the French garrison’s commander Jehan de Vinemeur).
         3. The duke responded “I beg you tell me your name for it may be that I shall find honor in trying conclusions with you, whoever you may be”.
         4. After Vinemeur gave his name, Gaunt complemented the man and said he was the Duke of Lancaster.
         5. -The epitome of literary chivalry in the middle of a war tunnel, wherein each self-styled knight respects others as their equals regardless of formal social rank.
      4. Foot jousts could take place inside siege mines, and were rated highly by the military caste.
      5. At the Siege of Verteuil, English-allied Castellan Regnault de Montferrand was in the siege mines raised his helmet and discovered his enemy was Louis, Duke of Bourbon, the enemy commander and a French royal. Regnault was was so honored by the Duke being willing to duel with him, that he offered to surrender the castle right there -provided Duke Louis knighted him.
   2. Honor and Expense
      1. Rennes, 1357.
         1. Henry of Grosmont, the first Duke of Lancaster and and father-in-law to the above John, laid siege to the Breton town of Rennes.
         2. Henry swore a public oath that he would not cease the siege until he planted his personal military standard atop the town’s walls.
         3. King Edward III told him to give it up, offering 100k crowns as compensation for the costs of the failed siege. Henry refused.
         4. Jousting and courtesy visits between the town and the besieging force followed over the months that passed.
         5. Betrand de Guesclin, the recently promoted garrison commander of Rennes, allowed Henry entry to the town with an honorary escort of ten knights. He could hold the city’s keys for a few hours and briefly raise his standard there.
         6. This was a technicality, but it let Henry’s honor remain intact and he abandoned the siege thereafter.
      2. Costs of War
         1. With the proceeds from his campaigning in Aquitaine, Henry of Grosmont was able to build his palatial Savoy residence in London, costing 35k pounds.
         2. But for lesser gentry, warfare had considerable outlays on equipment.
            1. A warhorse might cost a knight a year’s income.
            2. Compensation from the royal treasury might cover a dead warhorse, but only the first slain one, no insurance for subsequent equine deaths.
         3. Henry of Grosmont’s failed attempt to take the little town of Bray-sur-Somme involved his men risking life and limb by wading through shoulder-deep water through the town’s moat to the foot of its walls, while being flanked by the enemy.
9. The Italian Way: Montecchio, 1338
   1. Verona vs. Venice and Florence
      1. War and siege warfare in Italy, where city-states had come to rely more or less exclusively on mercenary forces, had its on rules.
      2. The Veronese army besieged the Venetian castle of Montecchio.
      3. Venice promised its German mercenaries an extra month’s salary if they lifted the siege.
      4. The Germans arrived only late on July 17th, when the Venetian garrison was about to surrender.
      5. The Germans caught the Veronese by surprise, and so they abandoned their camp and all its supplies, sparing Venice the need to surrender.
      6. However, the Venetians refused to pay the Germans, they had arrived on the battlefield, but they hadn’t actually done any fighting. So the Germans so the miserly Venetians spun it, hadn’t been responsible for lifting the siege.
      7. In response, the German mercenaries went on strike, refusing to do anything against Verona.
      8. Thanks to this, Verona, itself under siege by Venice’s German mercenaries, was able to regroup and resupply the food stores for a continued siege. Thus setting back Venice & Florence’s military campaign.
      9. The dispute was brought to the arbitrations of the Holy Roman Emperor Ludwig IV, and decided in favor of the mercenaries (fellow Germans after all). Florence refused at first to pay, and Venice was disgusted both by Florence and the lack of trustworthiness among mercenaries.
      10. However, Venice was probably right to think mercenaries not the best-minded soldiers. One mercenary commander in Naples later openly said he preferred that war be prolonged to increase his gain.

Video games? What are those?😛

Maybe I'll get to FFXIII now while my laptop charges up, typing for hours on end has nearly drained it. I played some Etrian Odyssey V this morning, and yesterday, wanted to move closer towards finishing my fourth and final playthrough of that game. Two Stratums left to go.

[Acacia Sgt]

Don't know you, but watching the US Senate Procedure over their Infrastructures Bills is quite fascinating...

[Codename Shrimp]

 

[Lightcosmo]

1 hour ago, Shrimperor said:

sadly not. I used to knew some peeps who modded Trails back then, but i am not into contact with any of them anymore.

The only thing i know how to mod is the music xD

Mostly because CS3 music reallly really pissed me off

Ah, unfortunate. Well, thanks anyways. Sorry to bother you with something silly.

[Saint Rubenio]

Hmmmm... What next, I wonder. I've been having a craving for The Last Promise. I've played enough Fates for now, but at the same time... I'm also curious to use Mozu in Conquest and finally see what the hype is all about.

 

 

 

Pffffft just kidding, my next Conquest run is 100% gonna be generics only. Maybe with the exception of Kumagera and Haitaka, because... well, when you get down to it, they're generics with a different face. Perhaps a lunatic run, even. When going over enemy lists in the good wiki, I noticed the stats don't change so much, it's just the skills and density of the enemy. The former sounds like it'd be a nice thing to turn against them...

Nah, but I'll play TLP next. I wouldn't want to burn myself out on Fates. Just some chill GBAFE sounds good to me. That, and Project Zomboid, which I've been rediscovering lately. For those of you who don't know what that is, it's a zombie survival simulator that is quite realistic. This makes it extremely difficult, or maybe I just suck, I don't know. It's really fun, even though I can hardly last a day, haha.

[Lightcosmo]

23 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Nah, but I'll play TLP next.

Gotta praise those Tales of and Trails references! 

Lets face it, Kelik vs Leon is taken straight from Trails.

[Sooks]

There is hope for my computer, it looks like. I should be able to continue my Conquest run in a couple days-ish, hopefully.

Until then, I have started Until Dawn, a 2015 horror game I came across in the local mom and pop (I think I can call it that?) game shop a bit ago. I bought it because I pretty much always pick up those “interactive movie”/choose your own adventure movie type games when I see them, since I like the idea of a good one, (but so far none of them have been very good, with Detroit somewhat being an exception, kinda, it was a step in the right direction at least, but also, Cage) and they usually go for cheap. I don’t think we’re gonna get a good one anytime soon, but I still like to check them out.

I’m at chapter 6. The acting is hit or miss (usually miss) and the writing is pretty bad, but it seems like my choices matter? It’s also really not scary, but I didn’t buy the game to be scared so I can live with that. I think I’ve only made one major mistake so far, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t have to be fatal for any of the characters. I think.

For some praise, I like the scenes with Dr. Hill. I’m not sure they matter all that much, but they are interesting.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Sooks

[Acacia Sgt]

Oh, Until Dawn. I remember watching a playthrough or two of that. Did found intrigue with the whole choices thing.

[Armagon]

This is the only song in the game.

[Sooks]

4 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Oh, Until Dawn. I remember watching a playthrough or two of that. Did found intrigue with the whole choices thing.

If you still find choices intriguing, Banner Saga has you covered.

[Venger_06]

After a while I decided to play AC Origins again, but I can't enjoy the experience as much as Odyssey. It's like playing Awakening back after playing Fates.

Later I plan to return to Banner Saga 2.

27 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Until then, I have started Until Dawn,

Don't save Josh.

[Saint Rubenio]

43 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Gotta praise those Tales of and Trails references! 

Lets face it, Kelik vs Leon is taken straight from Trails.

I mean, the final map's theme is taken straight from Trails. I will forever associate Silver Will to divine lightning because of that game.

43 minutes ago, Sooks said:

There is hope for my computer, it looks like. I should be able to continue my Conquest run in a couple days-ish, hopefully.

Until then, I have started Until Dawn, a 2015 horror game I came across in the local mom and pop (I think I can call it that?) game shop a bit ago. I bought it because I pretty much always pick up those “interactive movie”/choose your own adventure movie type games when I see them, since I like the idea of a good one, (but so far none of them have been very good, with Detroit somewhat being an exception, kinda, it was a step in the right direction at least, but also, Cage) and they usually go for cheap. I don’t think we’re gonna get a good one anytime soon, but I still like to check them out.

I’m at chapter 6. The acting is hit or miss (usually miss) and the writing is pretty bad, but it seems like my choices matter? It’s also really not scary, but I didn’t buy the game to be scared so I can live with that. I think I’ve only made one major mistake so far, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t have to be fatal for any of the characters. I think.

For some praise, I like the scenes with Dr. Hill. I’m not sure they matter all that much, but they are interesting.

Until Dawn is what I'd call the best of this "interactive movie that we pretend is a videogame" genre. I believe the dumb writing and acting was on purpose, as the game (well, at first, anyway) is supposed to be a half parody, half love letter to over-the-top slasher flicks from the 80s, in the same vein as Scream, if you've ever seen that one.

On the gamey side, there's some choices that have some surprisingly big effects, which is more than most of the genre can say. Don't expect anything on the level of Banner Saga, but it's pretty okay as far as this genre is concerned. It ain't no Heavy Rain. There's the odd "haha you get to pick two options but they both lead to the same conclusion" moment, but it's less common than usual. Most notably, you can get every single character killed. That's what the marketing says, and it's technically true. Compared to something like Heavy Rain, there's only 2 characters out of like 9 that are safe until the end, unlike Heavy Rain where... it was also 2, but there were only 4 characters, so it was much more jarring.

I wouldn't advise going out of your way to find out which are the safe characters, though. We don't want... accidents, to happen.

I'm rather familiar with the game, having watched a few playthroughs, so please, do keep me up to date.

15 minutes ago, Ghost_06_ said:

Later I plan to return to Banner Saga 2.

Don't go gettin' more archer ladies killed now.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Saint Rubenio

[Venger_06]

12 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Most notably, you can get every single character killed.

It's a better ending than the one where Josh survives.

12 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Don't go gettin' more archer ladies killed now.

Shh no archers

Only Ludins now

[Acacia Sgt]

I'm fine with anything so long Wolfie lives.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Acacia Sgt

[Sooks]

31 minutes ago, Ghost_06_ said:

Don't save Josh.

I said I would because the game absolutely required me to say who I was going to save before actually touching the lever, and if I absolutely had to pick between Josh and Ashley, of course I would pick Josh. Josh has had much more screen time and development, whereas Ashley has had like two scenes and all we know about her is that the game really wants you to care about her and Chris’ relationship. It was no contest between the two of them.

However, I didn’t touch the lever and let the saw timeout, and the machine decided to

Spoiler

kill Josh.

I hope that was a good choice.

17 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I wouldn't advice going out of your way to find out which are the safe characters, though.

Oh I wasn’t planning on it, that’s not fun.

…I think I accidentally spoiled myself on one, if you consider that “safe” is relative. But it’s kinda outta my hands now.

Quote

I'm rather familiar with the game, having watched a few playthroughs, so please, do keep me up to date.

Well no one’s died, if you’re curious what my one seemingly big mistake was:

Spoiler

I got Sam captured at the end of chapter five, where you can choose to run or hide. I’m not really sure how hiding was the right answer because it’s a pretty small room and the guy knows she pretty much has to be in there, I think, so I don’t know how he misses anywhere in that room. I mean, he circled it to get to the other door and didn’t see her at all, so he should know she’s in there.

Although there was another one, but considering my choice in the end I’m not sure it mattered:

Spoiler

There‘s a guidance totem near the beginning of the game that shows someone getting their fingers trapped in something and screaming in pain, which is Mike getting his fingers trapped in the bear trap in the Sanatorium. I recognized the bear trap from the guidance totem when I saw it, however because it was in the guidance totem I assumed I was supposed to get his fingers stuck in there and let it happen. But then I had him amputate his fingers, and the butterfly effect menu read “Mike still has a working machete”, which means I probably made the right choice and it probably didn’t change anything. At least, I like to think.

Speaking of guidance totems leading to mistakes, a guidance totem showed Emily giving the flare gun to Matt, so of course that’s what I did, and he fired it immediately. Alone in the woods, with a horror movie villain. Really, Matt? Really!? I can’t say that’s definitely a mistake because I don’t know the consequences of that, but… I mean, I know I should trust the guidance totem, but the butterfly effect menu implies he did that because I had him agree with Emily’s plan last chapter, and there’s no way the guidance totem can know which choice I made, so yeah.

By the way, what’s the deal with danger totems? I don’t see how they’re any different from loss totems.

Quote

Don't go gettin' more archer ladies killed now.

Hypocrite 😛

Edited August 10, 2021 by Sooks

[Dayni]

Turns out If the Emperor had a Text-to-Speech Device is having to shut down because Games Workshop is being a douchenozzle with tons of people.

GW continuing the ride down the tubes of their reputation.

5 minutes ago, Ghost_06_ said:

It's a better ending than the one where Josh survives.

Understandable sacrifice?

Edited August 10, 2021 by Dayni

[Saint Rubenio]

10 minutes ago, Ghost_06_ said:

Shh no archers

Only Ludins now

C'mon, don't kill Ludin before he can fulfill his character development.

7 minutes ago, Sooks said:

I said I would because the game absolutely required me to say who I was going to save before actually touching the lever, and if I absolutely had to pick between Josh and Ashley, of course I would pick Josh. Josh has had much more screen time and development, whereas Ashley has had like two scenes and all we know about her is that the game really wants you to care about her and Chris’ relationship. It was no contest between the two of them.

However, I didn’t touch the lever and let the saw timeout, and the machine decided to

  Hide contents

kill Josh.

I hope that was a good choice.

Hahahahahah... Okay, that's absolutely hilarious. Apparently there was "no contest", but you didn't care enough about either to actually make a decision lol.

Quote

Well no one’s died, if you’re curious what my one seemingly big mistake was:

  Hide contents

I got Sam captured at the end of chapter five, where you can choose to run or hide. I’m not really sure how hiding was the right answer because it’s a pretty small room and the guy knows she pretty much has to be in there, I think, so I don’t know how he misses anywhere in that room. I mean, he circled it to get to the other door and didn’t see her at all, so he should know she’s in there.

Oof. Oh, well, at least she's alive. Probably.

Quote

Although there was another one, but considering my choice in the end I’m not sure it mattered:

  Hide contents

There‘s a guidance totem near the beginning of the game that shows someone getting their fingers trapped in something and screaming in pain, which is Mike getting his fingers trapped in the bear trap in the Sanatorium. I recognized the bear trap from the guidance totem when I saw it, however because it was in the guidance totem I assumed I was supposed to get his fingers stuck in there and let it happen. But then I had him amputate his fingers, and the butterfly effect menu read “Mike still has a working machete”, which means I probably made the right choice and it probably didn’t change anything. At least, I like to think.

Speaking of guidance totems leading to mistakes, a guidance totem showed Emily giving the flare gun to Matt, so of course that’s what I did, and he fired it immediately. Alone in the woods, with a horror movie villain. Really, Matt? Really!? I can’t say that’s definitely a mistake because I don’t know the consequences of that, but… I mean, I know I should trust the guidance totem, but the butterfly effect menu implies he did that because I had him agree with Emily’s plan last chapter, and there’s no way the guidance totem can know which choice I made, so yeah.

Spoiler

Pretty sure you can force the trap open without cutting off Mike's fingers, so... Yeah. I hope he has fun being an amputee the rest of his life. However long that may be.

I'm not sure about the flare gun, actually. We'll have to see how it pans out.

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By the way, what’s the deal with danger totems? I don’t see how they’re any different from loss totems.

I don't remember, actually. I'm not really an expert on the different kinds of totems.

Quote

Hypocrite 😛

Hush.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Saint Rubenio

[Lightcosmo]

Another question @Shrimperor you play YS on PC, yes? Are files in ED6.DAT format as well?

[Venger_06]

7 minutes ago, Sooks said:

I hope that was a good choice.

Oh boy, this is only the beginning...

6 minutes ago, Dayni said:

Understandable sacrifice?

Spoiler

Josh will always become a wendigo if he survives. With him dead, the mountain will be free from the wendigos. At least for a while.

 

Spoiler

3 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Pretty sure you can force the trap open without cutting off Mike's fingers, so... Yeah. I hope he has fun being an amputee the rest of his life. However long that may be.

You only have two options: amputate his fingers and keep the machete or lose the machete trying to break free from the trap.

6 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I'm not sure about the flare gun, actually. We'll have to see how it pans out.

Using the flare gun means Matt can't use it to defend himself from the wendigo.

 

 

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Hahahahahah... Okay, that's absolutely hilarious. Apparently there was "no contest", but you didn't care enough about either to actually make a decision lol.

Well no, I know that everyone in this game can live or die, and what would happen if I pulled the lever in either direction seemed pretty cut and dry, but the saw was moving on its own, so I thought not moving the lever could be the way to save them both. I mean, this is supposed to be an experiment, if Chris didn’t actively kill anyone, there’s not really any reason for them to do so. But, well, we see where that got me.

2 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Oof. Oh, well, at least she's alive. Probably.

Very helpful, as you always are with these choice-y games.

2 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

  Hide contents

Pretty sure you can force the trap open without cutting off Mike's fingers, so... Yeah. I hope he has fun being an amputee the rest of his life. However long that may be.

Yeah, but the butterfly effect screen heavily implies that doing so would have broken his machete. And if you dropped me in a horror movie scenario and said “would you rather have a machete or your ringer finger and pinky finger still attached?” I’d pick the machete.

I mean, it was only two fingers. He could have lost a lot worse.

I’d quote your part about not being sure about the flare gun, but serenes is being serenes, so let’s just pretend that quote was here. About the flare gun:

Spoiler

The radio tower just got collapsed by the psycho guy, and the whole time I was just about ready to scream at the screen because I was 90% sure it was Matt’s fault. I was also 90% that Emily was dead, but there was a QTE which I did and she is still alive, at least for now. Not really sure how I can save her, but we’ll see.

[Acacia Sgt]

Good point. Why is the bear trap one not a Danger totem again...?

[Codename Shrimp]

7 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Another question @Shrimperor you play YS on PC, yes? Are files in ED6.DAT format as well?

they are in similiar format yeah

[Saint Rubenio]

4 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Well no, I know that everyone in this game can live or die, and what would happen if I pulled the lever in either direction seemed pretty cut and dry, but the saw was moving on its own, so I thought not moving the lever could be the way to save them both. I mean, this is supposed to be an experiment, if Chris didn’t actively kill anyone, there’s not really any reason for them to do so. But, well, we see where that got me.

Oh well. Too bad. But hey, at least Chris's crush survived! Now you get teen drama.

4 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Very helpful, as you always are with these choice-y games.

Thanks. I do try.

5 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Yeah, but the butterfly effect screen heavily implies that doing so would have broken his machete. And if you dropped me in a horror movie scenario and said “would you rather have a machete or your ringer finger and pinky finger still attached?” I’d pick the machete.

I mean, it was only two fingers. He could have lost a lot worse.

Until he finds himself hanging from a cliff and the loss of fingers prevents him from getting a solid grip.

And then he falls. To his death. Painful and agonizing death.

...Just a hypothetical, though, that doesn't happen in the game. Probably.

7 minutes ago, Sooks said:

About the flare gun

Those two have found themselves in quite the predicament, haven't they?

[Lightcosmo]

16 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

they are in similiar format yeah

Hmm, if there is a decompressor/compressor for YS, then odds are it'll work for Trails as well.

Edit: thank you!

Edited August 10, 2021 by lightcosmo

[Sooks]

Death number 2. Oops.

Spoiler

I had the choice to save Emily or jump to safety. I had Matt try to save Emily and when he leaned over, the entire thing tipped and he said “I don’t want to tip it” and got back up. Then I was presented with the same choice again, save Emily or jump to safety, and since the game literally just said that leaning over to save Emily tipped the tower over, I picked jump to safety instead, and the tower collapsed immediately. What? That makes no sense. So… I was dishonorable. I reset. I had Matt try to save Emily the second time and… Emily died and Matt jumped off the tower. Again. It looks like that choice didn’t actually matter. The butterfly effect screen says Emily was aggressive here because I had Matt side with Jessica in the fight at the cabin. Because Matt made it very clearly that Emily needed to calm down and learn to shut up for once in her life in order to get to safety, I’m guessing that was the real choice that mattered and not this one. I’ll just roll with this choice then because I’d rather Emily die with Matt trying to save her then with him jumping to safety and the tower falling for no reason and it seems like it was Emily’s fault she died anyway. Plus I let this scene play about a lot longer since I was curious if Matt would still live, and it looks like he did, so the game probably saved and I probably can’t reset anyway. Deal with it.

 

14 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Oh well. Too bad. But hey, at least Chris's crush survived! Now you get teen drama.

Oh boy! I could have had a developed character with actual motivations, or I could get teen drama! Well, I clearly made the right choice.

Quote

Until he finds himself hanging from a cliff and the loss of fingers prevents him from getting a solid grip.

And then he falls. To his death. Painful and agonizing death.

...Just a hypothetical, though, that doesn't happen in the game. Probably.

You are the worst person to have comment on someone’s playthrough of a choice based game.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Sooks