Saint Rubenio Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, Eltosian Kadath said: I know what you mean. I kind of hope someone ends up making a story hack to incorporate the manga's story differences, and world building into Engage someday... 1 hour ago, Eltosian Kadath said: Let's hope IS is taking notes, they can really improve the series by following the manga 😛 That is, assuming the trial itself is handled well. The current fear is that Alear and Diamant will be the protagonists of Ivy's trial arc and she'll be essentially a prop sitting on a chair, and I'm afraid it sounds alarmingly plausible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltosian Kadath Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 5 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said: That is, assuming the trial itself is handled well. The current fear is that Alear and Diamant will be the protagonists of Ivy's trial arc and she'll be essentially a prop sitting on a chair, and I'm afraid it sounds alarmingly plausible. I guess I am getting a bit ahead of myself with the optimism for the Engage manga at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightcosmo Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said: No, I don't mean I disagree! Sorry if it sounded that way. I meant it's nonsense as in, it's a dumb choice on the game designers' part. Understood! 2 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said: and people don't need to dig around for reasons to complain about not liking the script... Have you played CS before? Xd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 The whole localization thing is kinda blowing up in japan just as we were talking about it And i am not talking about western weebtubers or 4chan trolls, japanese youtubers are actually talking about it... 8 hours ago, Armagon said: Azure Strikers are canonically like uber powerful so i get the idea that it could happen but it def needed some more time Definitely There was the thing about calling him a Dragon in GV2, didn't expect it to be literal xD 8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said: I simply couldn't make it past the first phase, for as long as I could hold out, I couldn't time a single counter properly. Like the rest of the game? I made it through just fine on Rookie, but the final boss suddenly crossed a line. Oh OH I thought you meant you were dreading Dark Fact xD 2 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said: The issue is that characterization is interpretive, and can even be culturally dependent in a way that doesn't translate at all. Interpreting a character during translation wrong where even native speakers complain about it sounds like a bad job of interpreting a character Check the BL manga i posted above, where in the official loc a crossdresser was changed into trans - intentionally. Even the author was angry and the localization company had to apologize, even tho the translator kept blaming the fans. That's not a cultural interpretation, that's mean spirited and even cultural appropriation, if we wanna be mean about it. And when people try to point out the mistakes or ask why it was translated that way, the translators attack them and call them names. 2 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said: see a fair number of localization complaints as falling into three crowds, people who are digging for a reason to justify their dislike of the writing, whining about the localization not going along with the complainer's personal interpretation of the character, or plot point, etc., and people just parroting one of the other groups Or the biggest group: They have real complaints and get just written off because "it's anime" I am watching a japanese guy (Sora, he makes funny videos and did work as a translator and VA) atm and he brought up a good example "Make me Miso Soup" actually means "Marry me" when you say it in jp, and talked about the way to translate and how it would sound weird if it's translated, etc. In more niche spaces, one of the worst things that can happen to a product is hearing that it will get an official tl, as everyone knows that not only will we get lower quality products, we will get longer translation times, and the community is scattered. Fantranslators write pages on cultural context and why it was translated that way/justify it. We also learn about a different culture that way. Official loc the best you get is "deal with it", most of the times they attack you when you question it. 2 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said: I remember not liking the bizarre bump attack mechanics, and that the extreme leveling system made it impossible to have a satisfying level of difficulty. It does make it easier to lvlup to skip tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 11 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Oh OH I thought you meant you were dreading Dark Fact xD Them I'm curious about, now that you mention it, for two reasons.: What makes them so special that, as you informed me, they got one of the flower petal messages in IX? What kind of name is "Dark Fact"?😝 Guess I'll just have to see, ingame, or on YouTube if it comes to it. 13 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Check the BL manga i posted above, where in the official loc a crossdresser was changed into trans - intentionally. Even the author was angry and the localization company had to apologize, even tho the translator kept blaming the fans. FYI, I recall hearing of a situation in the game Gnosia (no interest in it myself, but if you never heard of it, there might be a 3.5% chance you'd consider it for your backlog?). Something about the localization (inconsistently?) re-gendering some character of an in-universe third gender wherein one opts to get rid of their sexual characteristics, from what I read others saying online. In the above situation you describe, I'd be inclined to agree with you judging from what you say. Crossdressing is legitimate, while I understanding wanting trans representation in media, replacing crossdressing instances with that isn't the way to do it. It's not like crossdressing is totally-societally-accepted behavior either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightcosmo Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 23 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Official loc the best you get is "deal with it", most of the times they attack you when you question it. Sounds just like what happened with Trails lol. Not even a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightcosmo Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 So I was looking through the neat ROM hacks thread that was just made, seen the Excel to explain them and seen this: And my respect there just went down. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 45 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: What makes them so special that, as you informed me, they got one of the flower petal messages in IX? spoilers i guess? Spoiler They are the first person Adol killed 46 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: What kind of name is "Dark Fact"?😝 Fact is, indeed, the family name - more details in Ys origin xD 48 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: there might be a 3.5% chance you'd consider it for your backlog? seems like a social deduction game? Dunno if it's exactly the thing i'd like but will keep it my eyes (read: more like 0.35% chance XD) 49 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: Crossdressing is legitimate, while I understanding wanting trans representation in media, replacing crossdressing instances with that isn't the way to do it. It's not like crossdressing is totally-societally-accepted behavior either. This is something that i've been seeing coming back in full force even in more progressive circles: Gender norms, but with a "progressive" flair. Anyone who even has a slight interest in something that's a considered to be "of the other gender" has to be trans. It kinda sucks honestly. Gender norms are cool again ig? And when it comes to representation....the current climate around the whole topic is honestly really really bad. I don't wanna talk more about it because then i will reveal some rl stuff i am not comfortable sharing online 50 minutes ago, Lightcosmo said: Sounds just like what happened with Trails lol. Not even a joke. that bad huh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightcosmo Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 4 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: that bad huh Is that really surprising? XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltosian Kadath Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Interpreting a character during translation wrong where even native speakers complain about it sounds like a bad job of interpreting a character Check the BL manga i posted above, where in the official loc a crossdresser was changed into trans - intentionally. Even the author was angry and the localization company had to apologize, even tho the translator kept blaming the fans. That's not a cultural interpretation, that's mean spirited and even cultural appropriation, if we wanna be mean about it. And when people try to point out the mistakes or ask why it was translated that way, the translators attack them and call them names. I am going to be honest, I don't care enough about this random BL Manga localization controversy to do a deep dive into it, although I would be willing to bet that death threats were sent to both localizer, and original author over this one. 26 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Official loc the best you get is "deal with it", most of the times they attack you when you question it. I find this double standard silly. How would you respond to innumerable strangers (who have usually merely heard of your job on the internet) insisting you explain and justify every decision you made months ago, many of whom are not doing so in good faith, and at all hours of the day online? Have these people ever tried scrutinizing the original author's decisions like this, and seen their responses? It would be like working retail, but the worst customers decide to treat you like you are at their beck and call whenever you appear online... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Restarting on Easy, the game's short enough to do this. Particularly now that I understand where I need to go and all. Hopefully it makes a difference. 18 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: spoilers i guess? ...I'll hold off.😆 15 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: seems like a social deduction game? Dunno if it's exactly the thing i'd like but will keep it my eyes (read: more like 0.35% chance XD) -Hence me really lowballing it, my apologies if I guessed incorrectly.😅 14 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: I don't wanna talk more Sorry.🙁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said: How would you respond to innumerable strangers (who have usually merely heard of your job on the internet) insisting you explain and justify every decision you made months ago If a customer came to me and asked "Why is this like this", then i have to respectfully tell them either a) why they are wrong (respectfully) or b) Justify our mistakes and apologize (usually the first or i wouldn't be at my job anymore) I deal with stuff like this daily. It's annoying. I get it, but it comes with the job. I don't tell them to fuck off, even if i know they are doing it in bad faith (and it's quite obvious sometimes). And yes, i am equating a customer to random online dude/tte because they are random people i never see in my life, just over the net, everything. Especially since the "random online dude/tte" actually provide more information on why the localization might be wrong rather than leave me with no info, and do bring comparisons. If the fans go "it's wrong" with no proof, ok, i agree - but usually they have proof and comparisons and all the localizers do is attack them and call them names. Quote Have these people ever tried scrutinizing the original author's decisions like this, and seen their responses? Not many authors are available online or speak english - and fans who don't go "i hate this i have to change this" i definitely trust more than a localizer knowing for pulling bs all the time. Especially since fans usually have some contact to a native speaker - or are native jp speakers themselves. And most of the time, it's very obvious the localizer doesn't care about author intent. And they even gloat about it. 10 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: Sorry.🙁 Don't apologize, and to explain: I am not comfortable sharing some personal stuff online related to the topic - i have no problem talking about the topic itself. Edited January 4 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightcosmo Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Shrimpy, this is what i was referring to: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightcosmo Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) Durante went on a childish tantrum because so many fans were criticizing his work lol There's more to that discussion as you can see, but i think that made the point well enough. XD Edited January 4 by Lightcosmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Lightcosmo said: Durante went on a childish tantrum because so many fans were criticizing his work lol honestly strange, because Durante is a known and trusted tech man...or atleast used to be 5 minutes ago, Lightcosmo said: Shrimpy, this is what i was referring to: this is also a very mean way to tell someone off lol. Instead he should ask what exactly happened to replicate it, or ask for pics/videos, etc. Not everything get's identified by QA, i have firsthand experience with that lmao, especially with how different systems are Edited January 4 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltosian Kadath Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 4 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: If a customer came to me and asked "Why is this like this", then i have to respectfully tell them either a) why they are wrong (respectfully) or b) Justify our mistakes and apologize (usually the first or i wouldn't be at my job anymore) I deal with stuff like this daily. It's annoying. I get it, but it comes with the job. I don't tell them to fuck off, even if i know they are doing it in bad faith (and it's quite obvious sometimes). And yes, i am equating a customer to random online dude/tte because they are random people i never see in my life, just over the net, everything. Especially since the "random online dude/tte" actually provide more information on why the localization might be wrong rather than leave me with no info, and do bring comparisons. How many 0 are at the end of the average number of times you have to field those many questions per day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightcosmo Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: honestly strange, because Durante is a known and trusted tech man...or atleast used to be this is also a very mean way to tell someone off lol. Instead he should ask what exactly happened to replicate it, or ask for pics/videos, etc. Not everything get's identified by QA, i have firsthand experience with that lmao, especially with how different systems are That's not the impression I got from that message. XD I don't think thousands of players would just wake up one day and say "let's go on Steam reviews and claim Reverie's fishing minigame freezes the game", that just sounds silly. It just sounds like he's sour because the bombardment of criticism, if anything. It's also clear he realises the text for the game was unacceptable in it's quality, but still hasn't addressed it lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightcosmo Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 If they have the same group translating Kuro, we are fucked. Plain and simple. Though at least this time round they have to make certain descriptions don't go out of the box (Kuro freezes if this happens lol) so there will be quality there! (Joke at finding silver lining) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltosian Kadath Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, Lightcosmo said: It's also clear he realises the text for the game was unacceptable in it's quality, but still hasn't addressed it lol. Literally the second paragraph in the image you shared opens with "You can be disappointed in the localization choices"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said: How many 0 are at the end of the average number of times you have to field those many questions per day? You are talking as if the localizers get million questions a day. If they just answered even one person truthfully instead of telling everyone to fuck off they wouldn't be getting that many questions to begin with If they do they job wrong, and many customers think they do, they are actually beholden to and responsible for it. 6 minutes ago, Lightcosmo said: It's also clear he realises the text for the game was unacceptable in it's quality, but still hasn't addressed it lol. tbf, he is a tech dude, not a localizer Edited January 4 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Everything is public domain in Latin America. 5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said: ...wait she sleeps in her full attire? How does she avoid getting pricked by her own spikes? Years and years of training. 4 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said: If we were to think about splitting Genealogy up into separate maps for each seizing castle, by far the most obvious difference would be in the starting locations of units; in the original that is entirely dependent on where your units ended up when you seize the previous castle, but that doesn't really work with the maps split into chunks like this. Losing that aspect of the maps takes away from some of the strategy, for very minimal gains, and I would see it as a diminishment of what makes the game interesting. I see it as a move away from the more strategic movement that make Genealogy unique, whereas most of the other Fire Emblem game I can get away with almost entirely tactical movement with not a thought for the other. The strategy in FE4 is mainly just "alright how do i deal with this 5x5 block of axe mounts". If anything, splitting the maps into chunks actually would in theory allow enemy placement to be better because they can be smarter about it. The reliance on 5x5 blocks probably has to do with your units starting positions after each chapter in the game so they have to account to wherever they may be. Also let's be real, the starting locations really only affect infantry units, because they'll always be far away from where everyone else is. 4 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said: Although by far the bigger issue is that defending the castles you have taken is a feature of a lot of chapters in the game. From a minor stated threat in the prologue, to the intentional fake-out of chapter 1 (technically it is possible to lose there if you are very, very, very unlucky, and left no defenders, so perhaps fake-out isn't entirely accurate), building towards the more credible threat near the end of chapter 2...I could keep going, but instead I will jump to the biggest point, that I don't even know how you would deal with the final section of chapter 9 in this format, as that is all about having to defend your distant and divided taken castles from a rain of wyverns. The problem is that this creates moments of backtracking, which, in maps this big, is a pain to do. If the maps were scaled down while still maintaining layout, it could probably be better. FE7 does it right both in regards to enemy placement and progression. The castles can be taken by anyone instead of exclusively Hector, allowing you to actually divide your forces and take the castles. I don't think you have to defend your castles here but it overall realizes the potential of "big maps" better than the game where it was designed around that. 4 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said: I kind of hope someone ends up making a story hack to incorporate the manga's story differences, and world building into Engage someday... A mix of both would be ideal. I do think so far there are certain things the game does better. While the comparison is there, it also doesn't replace the story for me like the FE4 Oosawa manga does. If Ivy does indeed have to cede agency to Alear and Diamant, then i'm definitely gonna prefer how they handled her in the game, where she fights for her father's approval one last time before realizing he doesn't care about her anymore. The manga does have her create an escape route for her retainers (so it's less that she got captured and more that she let herself be captured) but there's a possibility we'll lose the moment where Ivy and her crew come in to give us hope during The Escape. I think Manga Alcryst accusing Alear of being a pervert because Veyle had chains on her was also unneeded. 3 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said: That is, assuming the trial itself is handled well. The current fear is that Alear and Diamant will be the protagonists of Ivy's trial arc and she'll be essentially a prop sitting on a chair, and I'm afraid it sounds alarmingly plausible. *Kaga gleefully rubbing his hands together. His infiltration is a success.* 1 hour ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: we will get longer translation times, The nicher you go, the longer fan-translations take. Remember that Otome Kaiju manga you posted a while back? I read some of it. Pretty sure the raws are way ahead of the fan translation lmao. And this isn't even getting to projects that just die. Meanwhile "I reincarnated into another world where i get to smell my slave sister's feet" has fan-translators jumping at the ready, cause God knows we need more of that. 23 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: and all the localizers do is attack them and call them names. I think this is just the volatile form of the Internet at play. While you can legitimately criticize localization, most of the time, it's just people going "Japan good, America bad" on the Internet. Localizers rarely get civil discussion, they have to deal with terminally online weebs instead. I can see why some would lash out at some points. Besides, even when the intent is conveyed, if that intent is LGBT, then it's disregarded MagiRevo straight up has a lesbian pairing as the main focus. Like, on-screen kiss. Weebs: "No but you see, the MC was a man in her previous life, that's why she's attracted to girls". It becomes a damned if you, damned if you don't for localizers, because any genuine criticism tends to get buried by "woke". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Armagon said: I can see why some would lash out at some points. don't generalize and include people who are just asking/criticizing? If you do, then you are no better than the ones attacking you 6 minutes ago, Armagon said: Besides, even when the intent is conveyed, if that intent is LGBT, then it's disregarded I literally posted a LGBT example above, and i am not even into BL. It's not about idiots who cry "LGBT BAD REE", even if they definitely exist, it's about changing the work 6 minutes ago, Armagon said: It becomes a damned if you, damned if you don't for localizers, because any genuine criticism tends to get buried by "woke". Not just by "woke" (and i am not denying that subtext of fans exist), but also by localizers attacking everyone in sight even ones who just ask a question. Edited January 4 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Or let's go to a more popular example: Gundam Witch. Everyone was up in arms when executives went "there're no Lesbians here", including "weebs", because everyone knows the executives disregarded the authors work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltosian Kadath Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: You are talking as if the localizers get million questions a day. If they just answered even one person truthfully instead of telling everyone to fuck off they wouldn't be getting that many questions to begin with What sort of estimate would you put it at? I am betting the number is still unreasonable Also, I do think that an important part of the equation here is that these people are being harangued with questions about their work in their off hours. How many times would you have to be questioned like that about your work in your off hours before you told people to fuck off? 37 minutes ago, Armagon said: The strategy in FE4 is mainly just "alright how do i deal with this 5x5 block of axe mounts". If anything, splitting the maps into chunks actually would in theory allow enemy placement to be better because they can be smarter about it. One of the interesting things about FE4 is that usually you are the one controlling the positioning of fights a lot more than in other games. 37 minutes ago, Armagon said: The problem is that this creates moments of backtracking, which, in maps this big, is a pain to do. The game tells you from the start that defending the castles is something you are going to have to do. Its like complaining about accuracy being awful when you ignore the weapon triangle, and keep having your axe unit attack a Sword Master. 37 minutes ago, Armagon said: If the maps were scaled down while still maintaining layout, it could probably be better. FE7 does it right I disagree with this sentiment a lot. That would be moving away from the more strategic movements of Genealogy back to the more tactical movements of other FEs. Edited January 4 by Eltosian Kadath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 15 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said: I do think that an important part of the equation here is that these people are being harangued with questions about their work in their off hours. How many times would you have to be questioned like that about your work in your off hours before you told people to fuck off? I just don't respond until work hours. All my work contacts are off until i am online again. However they are using their personal accounts also for their work - mixing personal life with work life is something they decided to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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