Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Saint Rubenio]

9 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

The things one does for fashion...just don't analyze how broke I was in the linked ironman buying outfits.

Fashion. The DNA of the soul.

...Honestly, I think we've all had that moment in videogames where we put more effort into making our character look nice than actually gameplay-affecting stuff.

[BrightBow]

3rd run done and I continue the trend of ending with someone dying in the final battle. First it was Ma'aya, this time Accorte.
Which does mean Zade heads out with Theodel on his journey instead of her. I wonder how this is justified, given Theodel's existing responsibilities.
As for the 2nd run, at the time I felt more like starting a new game instead of tackling the Tower of Anguish. Sometimes I just don't feel like finishing it, even if it's much faster now and very much an entirely different map.

This time the reinforcements in the left chamber on the bottom floor didn't spawn. Maybe this was part of the 1.20 update. Apparently there was an issue where Escallone could get attacked, so maybe those were the culprints and therefore were removed? Idk.
Bit of a shame since they actually were quite different then before. Back in the day you would simply block them by putting someone in front of the door, so they couldn't leave because they were all melee locked. This time they were all equipped with ranged weapons, including 3-7 range, and more than capable of not making this approach all that feasible.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Scenario 21:

Spoiler

• Tekkaman Axe in human form (Goddard) and one of the ugly-looking Seven Almighty Primevals independently infiltrate the Orbit Base.
  • The bearded Arm begins by Zonderizing the Orbit Base, Heero with a bazooka doesn't even scratch him. Goddard shows up that helps the heroes. Though what it actually takes to force Arm to retreat is Mic Sounders showing up with a modified Disc X, which now works on Zonder instead of Radam.
  • Also, Arm was alarmed when Blessfield Ardygun showed up, some Original teasing.
• With this, Arm says he's headed for the Moon, all the heroes give pursuit -minus one. 
• D-Boy stays behind to confront Tekkaman Axe, and what follows is a 1 vs. 1 battle. Winning this battle is the third and last chance to set a flag for unlocking Tekkaman Rapier.
  • If enough turns pass, presumably, Blade automatically kills Axe. You need to win before then.
  • Killing Axe is tricky. Blade begins with increased Will, so cast Strike and fire off a Hi-Coat Voltekka. It'll be the only one you get though, as Tekkamen alway always always move into point blank range against Blade, where Voltekka can't hit.
  • Spamming Pegas Formation (new to W; W also removed regular Volkekka once Hi-Coat is obtained, and got rid of the ability to separate Pegas from Blade and use the two as separate units) will be Blade's best option for this fight.
  • The only reason I think I probably won, was because mid-fight, D-Boy gained a level and learned Valor. That probably won the fight on the last possible turn.
  • Besides money, the second available copy of Hit & Run is dropped by Axe, and he gives a +10 Mobility Part too.
• Defeating Axe has him die a happy death, willingly informing Blade about the Zonder. Specifically, the Master Program and how the Zonderification thing is the result of a programming error. How to eliminate stress & anxiety in living beings. An Ultimate-tier glitch in the system.😛
• Meanwhile, all the other heroes make it to the Moon. The Seven Almighty Primevals combine into a mess of guts with 78k HP, worth 18k fund, and with a much less annoying map than EI-01 had. It summons a bunch of EI grunts too.
  • The combined Primeval claims there is power in the Moon, which the heroes don't understand. I do, it's the stasis pods after all.😏
• Soldato J appears as one would expect, as does BO Mystery Girl. They're both controllable this time. 
  • And the girl finally ditches the shadows on her portrait and gives her name- Aria, which makes Daddy Ardygun react with no explanation. Her mech is now named the Arm Arcus.
  • Both have rather airy BGMs, light and easy to listen to. But not exactly what you'd associate with mecha, especially one as enormous as King J-Der.
• Cutting through the Primevals is easy enough. The Arcus is good, King J-Der is astoundingly strong, the battleship-mech is almost invincible here.
• Attacking the Combined Primeval sees it initiate its super-regeneration, which the heroes can't cut through. It then summons the ZX-06, which looks like a fly and has a big brain, also drops meteors as it did back at the Orbit Base. Objective changes to squishing that bug, which has only 30k HP.
• Some leaderless Radam show up too b/c they hate the Zonder. More grunts for Will/EXP/Money.
  • One these Radam beelines for the Nadesico, but Akito appears in the Lunar Frame and shoots it down. -Not that he was that concerned, one Radam can't destroy something with a Distortion Field.
  • From the start of the map, I noticed a 3x3 square lunar base, the same design that was used in prior instances of Akito's Lunar Frame arrival.
  • Yet again, the Lunar Frame is really weak. Accept the Gravity Wave Antenna "limitation", it's way better than the alternative.
• Destroying the ZX-06 causes it to heal, but then Caret acquires new information and the Valstork and Valhawk suddenly just-do-it unlock and fire their Combination Attack. Which is actually quite weak in gameplay at a teeny 4000 Attack.
• Back to the literal pile of guts, the regeneration is still unbroken. The heroes try focusing their beam weapons on a gravity lens created by Star GaoGaiGar against a 10cm spot on the Primeval as determined by Omoikane -but it isn't enough.
  • Tekkaman Blade then makes a last-minute arrival and tells Guy to direct the gravity lens against Tekkaman Axe's Tek-Set System Box/crystal. This indeed pushes things past the point of Primeval regeneration. Allowing me to actually kill the thing!
  • Hikaru comments on something about Crystal Power on the Moon. On the behalf that celestial body, she might require punishment for that.🌙
  • Aria leaves with the regen broken, but I don't need her, it takes but two turns to delete this hideous mass.
• Arm manages to escape, but is the only one of the Seven Almighty Primevals to survive this deadly encounter. Kaidou and J explain everything they know about the Zonder and the Red and Green Planets (and then go their separate ways again), and so does D-Boy from what Axe told him.
• On Akito, there weren't any Chulip Crystals on him this time. He preformed what Inez calls a "Biological Boson Jump".
  • Furthermore, one week has passed since the Mariemaia-Jovian-Primeval battle. Yet the Junkmen who found Akito said he slept for ten days straight, implying time travel must be real.
    • Looking at J, the initial story timeskip happens because of a Boson Jump. That's moving ahead in time.
    • And, Akito and Yurika were able to send Le Caine back waaaaaaaaaaay further than three days.
    • So, because of SRW shenanigans, Boson time travel doesn't exactly catch me by surprise.😆
• ...One other thing, Mic Sounders gained some new attacks during this fight.
  • A MAP version of his already extant Disc M attack that carries a Mobility debuff.
  • The new Disc X comes in a single-target and a MAP version and apply an Armor debuff.
  • And, his Disc P +5 Will buff now comes in a second version. Requires 120 Will, no post-movement, but is a 3x3 cross MAP with 5 ammo.😄

 

---

To speak of something not SRW.:

https://www.gematsu.com/2024/05/vanillaware-recruiting-development-staff-for-new-fantasy-action-rpg

[Sidereal Wraith]

1 hour ago, Saint Rubenio said:

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

[Acacia Sgt]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Hikaru comments on something about Crystal Power on the Moon. On the behalf that celestial body, she might require punishment for that.🌙

Leave it to the aspiring mangaka to make the reference. lol

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

• On Akito, there weren't any Chulip Crystals on him this time. He preformed what Inez calls a "Biological Boson Jump".
  • Furthermore, one week has passed since the Mariemaia-Jovian-Primeval battle. Yet the Junkmen who found Akito said he slept for ten days straight, implying time travel must be real.
    • Looking at J, the initial story timeskip happens because of a Boson Jump. That's moving ahead in time.
    • And, Akito and Yurika were able to send Le Caine back waaaaaaaaaaay further than three days.
    • So, because of SRW shenanigans, Boson time travel doesn't exactly catch me by surprise.😆

Yeah, that's one thing soon revealed about the Boson Jump. It lets you travel through space AND time. Which becomes important to keep in mind...

[Codename Shrimp]

the discussion above reminded me of this classic lol

[Codename Shrimp]

Btw, anyone here tried Pokerogue?

I did try a bit a few weeks ago

[Lightcosmo]

54 minutes ago, Codename Shrimp said:

Btw, anyone here tried Pokerogue?

I did try a bit a few weeks ago

Sounds familiar, at least!

[Interdimensional Observer]

The SRW experience.

Scenario 22:

Spoiler

• Staying with the Nadesico or heading out to explore ruins on Mars? -Odd they're not one and the same, but the Y-Unit needs attaching and there isn't an alternative battleship to stay behind.
  • Since they intentionally split the roster entirely along Real-Super lines (with Blade in Super), and this is supposed to be a Super long-term run, I head to Mars.
• Chatter about the now long-forgotten former planet called Pluto, not for the first time in this game for some reason.🤔
  • More importantly, D-Boy provides more intel on the Evoluted. They disrupt civilizations everywhere in the galaxy, but usually it was implied prefer to pick weaker opponents. In the case of the Radam though, the Evoluted always attack the Radam at every convenient opportunity, despite being equally matched. No answer to this, yet.
  • In addition, the Coordinators and the very first one named Glenn-something (I forgot already, and my Brain is wrongly wanting to say "Jonathan") are brought up. Their retreat into space to escape discrimination and live largely in isolation, including their aloofness from the Revolutionary War. Tensions being at all-time high are spoken of not for the first time in W -yet nothing has come of them, yet.
  • And for Blessfield- the only thing his children say they know about his past is that he lived on Mars.
• Reaching Mars, it's the Jovians trying to excavate ruins whilst fighting off the Galran Empire. The Valstork lands just in time to join the fight.
  • Very suddenly, the Valstork team learns that the Jovians are human via conversation with Genpachiro, and that a "peace" is about to be achieved. Blessfield attempts diplomacy using the same blustery language, and agree to help the Jovians against the Galrans.
• When the Galrans are quickly destroyed, the Jovians get wiped out by a group of Evoluted, lead by the Head Detonator, Lang. Orgun shows up and becomes temporarily playable for the first time.
  • Orgun does resemble Tekkaman as a unit. Though he trades Grit (the "next hit taken is reduced to 10 damage" Spirit) for the inferior Alert, yet he has Hit & Run as a skill, which will be great for Ankh Attack spamming ...once he finally joins.
  • I try taking out Lang for his 15k funds, but he retreats at like 15k HP, very unique for W in that he retreats at all. Instead, I delete enough of his Eid grunts and that sends him into retreat.
• ...Retreat, because Arm came back and fused with one of the many meteors near Jupiter. With less than 40k HP, he's a breeze, and all alone.
  • ChoRyuJin while fighting Arm, is discovered in the Martian ruins. 65 million years old b/c of the spacetime shenanies, but it wakes up quickly enough.
  • The Power that ChoRyuJin found in Jupiter allows the Super AIs to reform into GoRyuJin and GekiRyuJin, with The Power manifesting as a mech ability that regenerates all their EN every turn and gives them a 250 Will cap. Overkill. And also a one-battle only thing.
• Arm successfully flees again, and the Galrans deploy again, led this time it is revealed by the Crown Prince himself (and Honerva survived as well). The full force of the Galran Empire is now falling upon the Solar System. -But the Jovians arrive and give the exhausted heroes time to flee. Which conveniently keeps them out of the Martian ruins.
• Since ChoRyuJin is back, there is no need to visit Jupiter. The Super heroes return to Earth, where conversation reveals the Real team fought Wufei again, met Tsukumo who became ambassador to Earth -and has now been assassinated! Organic Boson Jumps mentioned too.
  • Also, the Super heroes discuss the First Coordinator guy and his likely sympathies with the Jovians once he discovered them. And ofc the truth of the Jovians too.
  • The Nadesico indeed has the Y-Unit now, and Akito has been placed in the newly-obtained glorified gravity cannon called the X-Aestivalis too.

 

2 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Yeah, that's one thing soon revealed about the Boson Jump. It lets you travel through space AND time. Which becomes important to keep in mind...

Don't tell me- the ancient Martian ruins & technology are the result of a time loop.♾️🕰️😛

[Acacia Sgt]

17 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The SRW experience.

If I could find it again, I'd post that Alpha 4Koma with the Titans feeling they're being overshadowed by all the other factions. lol

17 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

• In addition, the Coordinators and the very first one named Glenn-something (I forgot already, and my Brain is wrongly wanting to say "Jonathan") are brought up.

George

17 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

• by the Crown Prince himself (and Honerva survived as well). 

Not had a chance to fight Syncline yet?

17 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

• • The Nadesico indeed has the Y-Unit now, and Akito has been placed in the newly-obtained glorified gravity cannon called the X-Aestivalis too.

That was curious you got the ruins trip but no Nadesico going there. Then again, since Prince of Darkness has to happen...

17 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Don't tell me- the ancient Martian ruins & technology are the result of a time loop.♾️🕰️😛

Not that I know of, heh. Hmm... no, I'm pretty sure.

Fun fact. Perhaps A and J (and W too?) didn't mention it, but the Boson Jump is how Akito escaped from Mars during the initial attack at the beginning of the series. Ending on Earth... and in the past. As a result, people were skeptical of his claim at first.

[Interdimensional Observer]

🤣

Scenario 23:

Spoiler

• Literally titled "The Endless Waltz Finale". Tells you all you need to know for this clash on Christmas Eve eve.
• The heroes discuss why Tsukumo would be assassinated, Akatsuki has a secret conversation with the UN Secretary General (not sure which license she is, maybe Nadesico?).
• The Mariemaia Army hijacks a space colony called X-18999(?) with the UN Secretary General inside.
  • Meanwhile, the Jovians thinks the Earth Alliance won't be able to strike at them at the moment directing their forces against the Radam. Allowing the Jovians to take over X-18999 without fear of they themselves then being attacked.
  • But, Warter is given intel Mithril that lets them discover where the Mariemaia Army is and they head over there. Some for reasons I forget are unsure if the info really came from Mythril, and if they speak such doubts, there's likely a grain of truth to it.😛
• Wufei deploys as an enemy again, Dekim and Mariemaia give speeches about their new world order. And reveal how the original Operation Meteor in Gundam Wing was going to be a colony drop (before political moderates reduced it to the five Gundams) which they'll be doing now (Siberia being the drop location -I can think of many better places to do that).
• As a battle, it's all Serpents and Tauruses and Wufei. There is no end to these grunts, and I killed Wufei like five times. In the absence of a viable boss unit, it's enemy quantity over quality for the Endless Waltz.
• Eventually, with the passing of enough turns and Turbo Smasher Punches, the Jovian fleet arrives, Mariemaia thought they'd be reinforcements.
  • Instead, the Jovians backstab and assail both Warter and the Mariemaia Army. But Relena, via an unbreakable communication line Tsukumo is shown to have set up, gives her peace speech, and having Geki-love of drama on the battlefield, the Jovian army is too demoralized to fight and temporarily withdraws.
  • Likewise, Wufei backs down and many other Mariemaians do too. This ends the endless reinforcements and all I have to do is clean up the rest.
    • At this point in time, when any anime lead character gets into combat, they spout a few lines on peace, just as they have had several climatic boss conversations in W so far.
• Fighting done, Relena begins getting through to the young Mariemaia, Dekim points a gun at her making it known to her that she was just a puppet for him. Relena, Mariemaia, the Secretary General Rose are saved thanks to Lady Une having enlisted the help of... Seina. She survived her earlier death, seemingly solely to save Mariemaia, the daughter of the Wing man she was indebted to.
  • Dekim attempts to colony drop anyway, Heero Twin Buster Rifles the control room after Relena tells him the civilian and escape corridors are shielded, and so Dekim dies with the drop stopped. The Endless Waltz is over.
• Meanwhile, Azrael and Tessa's brother are speaking about the aftermath of the Waltz.
  • Silver boy totally leaked the intel that was supposedly from Mithril. Azrael claims he's the kind of person to treat things as a game to be enjoyed, in contrast to the Islamic Death Angel, who is totally impatient about not getting his way all the time.
  • Dekim's total failure is doubly bad- they lost somebody to handle the Coordinators (and perhaps outer space aliens, hard to tell when Az speaks of space monsters) and subdue the Eurasian Federation. And, Warter is now too popular with the masses (Alaska here we co- SEED hasn't even started yet!😝).
  • Tessa's bro has apparently developed a weapon that's better than nukes in Azhole's eyes, must be quite good then. -Can't wait to destroy it.

 

2 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

If I could find it again, I'd post that Alpha 4Koma with the Titans feeling they're being overshadowed by all the other factions. lol

The remark about Jaburo in said comic, it has struck me in a sense with GC. When I was in the lategame back in Pentagona/Edon/Zarl, the early days of the game when it was the just original MSG + 08th & Dragonar with a few Super robots sprinkled in, felt like a very distant memory. The One Year War ended up feeling like a Hundred.😆

2 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Not had a chance to fight Syncline yet?

Nope, he only announced who he was. Reminds me of J, in that what you fight of Grados at the start of the game is only the advance force, it's not until you visit the Moon for Akito that Le Caine and the real army arrives. -Although you did get to fight (even if the game implies you shouldn't) Le Caine on the Moon.

2 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Fun fact. Perhaps A and J (and W too?) didn't mention it, but the Boson Jump is how Akito escaped from Mars during the initial attack at the beginning of the series. Ending on Earth... and in the past. As a result, people were skeptical of his claim at first.

It did say in all three games that Akito's escape from Mars was a Boson Jump, the games can't ignore that detail since that's how Nergal knows to give him Chulip Crystals in the first place. 

When he arrived is never mentioned though in any of the games.

[Acacia Sgt]

38 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

🤣

Anime Ja Nai!

38 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

• Literally titled "The Endless Waltz Finale". Tells you all you need to know for this clash on Christmas Eve eve.

Which is where it actually happened in the actual Endless Waltz, in fact. So for once (maybe?) SRW has it happen when it actually did date-wise.

38 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

• The heroes discuss why Tsukumo would be assassinated, Akatsuki has a secret conversation with the UN Secretary General (not sure which license she is, maybe Nadesico?).

Does she have a name?

38 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

• The Mariemaia Army hijacks a space colony called X-18999(?) with the UN Secretary General inside.

You know, you got me there about why it's named X-18999. Outside the fact Wing liked using numbers as names, heh.

38 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

• Wufei deploys as an enemy again, Dekim and Mariemaia give speeches about their new world order. And reveal how the original Operation Meteor in Gundam Wing was going to be a colony drop (before political moderates reduced it to the five Gundams) which they'll be doing now (Siberia being the drop location -I can think of many better places to do that).

Fun fact, by the end of the series, Milliard/Zechs did tried to do the colony drop plan. Using the Battleship Libra. It's full deliberate reference to CCA, with Milliard wishing to plunge Earth into an endless winter, and having a climatic battle with Heero trying to stop him. Unlike Amuro, Heero does suceed without going MIA, using the Twin Buster Rifle to destroy a piece that remained when they caused the Libra to detonate (well, the part that didn't got sent away after they rammed a different battleship into it and activated the thrusters at full power; just like how Axis also got split in two by detonating nukes inside it, but one piece contined its collission course).

Actually, Siberia is a good impact site if you want to trigger nuclear winter like conditions. Due to all the methane reserves under it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_methane_emissions

Use the explosion of the Libra to cause an even bigger detonation with the methane.

38 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

• As a battle, it's all Serpents and Tauruses and Wufei. There is no end to these grunts, and I killed Wufei like five times. In the absence of a viable boss unit, it's enemy quantity over quality for the Endless Waltz.

Serpents and Tauruses is pretty much what SRW only tends to use with EW. Some games do allow more variety, like Alpha Gaiden actually giving them Zanscare mechs to use, but outside that, it's just the Serpents and Tauruses, yep.

38 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

• Fighting done, Relena begins getting through to the young Mariemaia, Dekim points a gun at her making it known to her that she was just a puppet for him. Relena, Mariemaia, the Secretary General Rose are saved thanks to Lady Une having enlisted the help of... Seina. She survived her earlier death, seemingly solely to save Mariemaia, the daughter of the Wing man she was indebted to.

Ah, the Secretary is named Rose? Okay, looking up... she's from GGG.

38 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

• • Dekim's total failure is doubly bad- they lost somebody to handle the Coordinators (and perhaps outer space aliens, hard to tell when Az speaks of space monsters) and subdue the Eurasian Federation. And, Warter is now too popular with the masses (Alaska here we co- SEED hasn't even started yet!😝).

Yep, the plot SEEDs are being planted, yep.

In a way, this is likely why Endless Waltz was put in the first part. Since they put SEED for the second, so you have a Gundam plotline happening in both parts. This also makes EW the only storyline to wrap up in full in the first part.

38 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The remark about Jaburo in said comic, it has struck me in a sense with GC. When I was in the lategame back in Pentagona/Edon/Zarl, the early days of the game when it was the just original MSG + 08th & Dragonar with a few Super robots sprinkled in, felt like a very distant memory. The One Year War ended up feeling like a Hundred.😆

That it does. SRW does tend to put "regular" human factions as among the first to fall, or if they do last almost to the end, it's because they have something going on for them (like the Jovians). I guess from a narrative standpoint, it makes for more excitement if you are fighting aliens, or space monsters, or cosmic horros, etc in the lategame.

Of course, exceptions abound. But I guess there's also a "but" in there. Like Shadow Mirror being the OG faction of it game, and then they're not normal humans either (at least in the version where they're all Cyber-Newtypes at least; which is also why Neo Zeon is the last non-OG faction to fall I guess).

38 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Nope, he only announced who he was. Reminds me of J, in that what you fight of Grados at the start of the game is only the advance force, it's not until you visit the Moon for Akito that Le Caine and the real army arrives. -Although you did get to fight (even if the game implies you shouldn't) Le Caine on the Moon.

I think you can fight him much earlier depending on the routes you took.

Either way, once you do, try to fight him with the Getter, hehehe... or perhaps it's already too late for that.

Well, if you must know, Syncline is voiced by Akira Kamiya, just like Classic!Ryoma. And even if the game has no voice acting, that doesn't stop the jokes and references from happening, heh.

38 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

It did say in all three games that Akito's escape from Mars was a Boson Jump, the games can't ignore that detail since that's how Nergal knows to give him Chulip Crystals in the first place. 

When he arrived is never mentioned though in any of the games.

Hmm, interesting. But yeah, Akito claiming the Mars Colony was attacked but no one finding any evidence of it (yet) in part is indeed how he gets Nergal's attention on him.

Edited May 22 by Acacia Sgt

[Armagon]

5 hours ago, Codename Shrimp said:

Btw, anyone here tried Pokerogue?

I did try a bit a few weeks ago

I heard the lead dev dropped it because he "converted to Christianity" and immediately upon doing so, became transphobic.

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Anime Ja Nai!

Aside:

https://www.timeextension.com/news/2024/05/gundam-fans-you-need-this-controller-in-your-lives

I am unfamiliar with the cockpit controls of a Mobile Suit, can't confirm/deny myself if this indeed looks like something a pilot would use.😛

7 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Fun fact, by the end of the series, Milliard/Zechs did tried to do the colony drop plan. Using the Battleship Libra. It's full deliberate reference to CCA, with Milliard wishing to plunge Earth into an endless winter, and having a climatic battle with Heero trying to stop him. Unlike Amuro, Heero does suceed without going MIA, using the Twin Buster Rifle to destroy a piece that remained when they caused the Libra to detonate (well, the part that didn't got sent away after they rammed a different battleship into it and activated the thrusters at full power; just like how Axis also got split in two by detonating nukes inside it, but one piece contined its collission course).

Amusing, amusing indeed.😄

9 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Actually, Siberia is a good impact site if you want to trigger nuclear winter like conditions. Due to all the methane reserves under it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_methane_emissions

Use the explosion of the Libra to cause an even bigger detonation with the methane.

I was not aware of this. All I was thinking about was population density and strategic value, neither of which Siberia is known for having.😅

11 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

In a way, this is likely why Endless Waltz was put in the first part. Since they put SEED for the second, so you have a Gundam plotline happening in both parts. This also makes EW the only storyline to wrap up in full in the first part.

After the passage of enough time, I forget when exactly, I sorta realized W had to be delaying SEED for the second half. Partly, because what J primarily used its timeskip for- letting the Bloody Valentine event happen while the heroes were away and the Atlantic Federation-ZAFT war break out.

...Unrelated question I've been continually forgetting to ask you about SEED- Alpha.

• Super Robot Wars Alpha 1 released in 2000, Mobile Suit Gundam SEED in 2002.
• I don't know how much of Alpha's choice of licenses and in which games they would appear was planned from the start, yet SEED clearly couldn't have been.
• You probably have no more insight than I. Yet every Alpha would inevitably have to involve Gundam, and I can't help but wonder...
  • ...Was SEED's inclusion because the original Gundam franchise plans for the Alphaverse had been interrupted?
  • ...Or, was there no detailed Gundam-in-Alpha blueprint, and Banpresto simply decided "is there anything left in UC we can use... nope! Let's just throw in whatever's the latest in Gundam".

[Acacia Sgt]

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Aside:

https://www.timeextension.com/news/2024/05/gundam-fans-you-need-this-controller-in-your-lives

I am unfamiliar with the cockpit controls of a Mobile Suit, can't confirm/deny myself if this indeed looks like something a pilot would use.😛

Ooh, neat, heh.

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I was not aware of this. All I was thinking about was population density and strategic value, neither of which Siberia is known for having.😅

Yeah, from what I recall, Char didn't had an exact location in mind for impact. Makes sense since Axis is much larger than the Libra, and was also filled with nukes. In light of that, makes sense that Milliard would need a substitute for the high yield needed.

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

...Unrelated question I've been continually forgetting to ask you about SEED- Alpha.

• Super Robot Wars Alpha 1 released in 2000, Mobile Suit Gundam SEED in 2002.
• I don't know how much of Alpha's choice of licenses and in which games they would appear was planned from the start, yet SEED clearly couldn't have been.
• You probably have no more insight than I. Yet every Alpha would inevitably have to involve Gundam, and I can't help but wonder...
  • ...Was SEED's inclusion because the original Gundam franchise plans for the Alphaverse had been interrupted?
  • ...Or, was there no detailed Gundam-in-Alpha blueprint, and Banpresto simply decided "is there anything left in UC we can use... nope! Let's just throw in whatever's the latest in Gundam".

If I recall, the developers had a whole outline planned out for the Alphaverse. Of course, no plan survives intact when implemented, so changes were inevitable. When it comes to UC Gundam, I believe the plan was to make use of Gundam Sentinel. Unused sprites related to Sentinel were found in both the data of Alpha 2 and Alpha 3, indicating they likely intended to wrap-up the UC storyline with it.

As for SEED, I think it was added by executive demand due to its popularity. That's why many don't feel it meshed well being in Alpha 3. Since having to retroactively justify its existence and absence in the previous games was bound to not be perfect.

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

If I recall, the developers had a whole outline planned out for the Alphaverse. Of course, no plan survives intact when implemented, so changes were inevitable. When it comes to UC Gundam, I believe the plan was to make use of Gundam Sentinel. Unused sprites related to Sentinel were found in both the data of Alpha 2 and Alpha 3, indicating they likely intended to wrap-up the UC storyline with it.

*Checks Wikipedia*

...Set between Zeta and ZZ. Setting something Gundam after it should've instead of before. Is that different?😆

Curious why Sentinel only got a units-only appearance in like SRW4, and that has been it.

6 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

As for SEED, I think it was added by executive demand due to its popularity. That's why many don't feel it meshed well being in Alpha 3. Since having to retroactively justify its existence and absence in the previous games was bound to not be perfect.

Realize does sound wonderful in Alpha 3 though, I've given it more than a few listens after I finished J.😄

With all its additional materials, I'd imagine that you could probably make a three-part SRWverse featuring different portions of SEED from start to finish.

[Acacia Sgt]

21 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

*Checks Wikipedia*

...Set between Zeta and ZZ. Setting something Gundam after it should've instead of before. Is that different?😆

Alpha had the Titans last much longer than the Zeta storyline itself for a reason. Alpha Gaiden would finish them off as an organization, but Alpha 2 had Titans remnants running about if I recall, and in fact, I believe Arado gets involved with them for a bit (I think this is why he's with Neo DC in OG2). The New Desides were basically Neo Titans, so that's probably why Sentinel was considered for Alpha 2. But then it seemed to have been scrapped, and we just got random Titans remnants instead of the New Desides. Then for Alpha 3 maybe they wanted to revisit the idea, but then that too got scrapped. People think SEED's inclusion made them drop Sentinel again, but nothing has been confirmed. Even my guess of the sprites being in the data is that, a guess. We don't know the full extent of the Alphaverse's original outline. Not everything has been revealed to this day. So Sentinel could've been units-only, just like in SRW 4. Speaking of...

21 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Curious why Sentinel only got a units-only appearance in like SRW4, and that has been it.

Yeah, that's kinda odd. I remember Hathaway's Xi Gundam was also found in the data of 4, but it goes unused. Considering Hathaway becomes playable in EX, they certainly were planning for him to get the Xi in 4, but that didn't pan out. Perhaps there were plans to make use of Sentinel, but also fell through, but kept the mech.

Man, if only we could know the full development stories...

21 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Realize does sound wonderful in Alpha 3 though, I've given it more than a few listens after I finished J.😄

Oh yeah, at least we got that. XD

21 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

With all its additional materials, I'd imagine that you could probably make a three-part SRWverse featuring different portions of SEED from start to finish.

Hmm, I suppose it can be doable. Though just of SEED? SEED Destiny is a natural second part, and now we have SEED Freedom for a third. But yeah, back with Alphaverse, SEED could've been in Alpha 2 and Destiny in Alpha 3 I suppose. A little better, though that still leaves a big question mark over justifying Alpha 1 not having anything SEED.

Edited May 22 by Acacia Sgt

[Interdimensional Observer]

28 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Alpha had the Titans last much longer than the Zeta storyline itself for a reason. Alpha Gaiden would finish them off as an organization, but Alpha 2 had Titans remnants running about if I recall, and in fact, I believe Arado gets involved with them for a bit.

...That might explain the decision to make him a kidnapped, old memories-deleted, child pilot in the OGverse. Aiming for a "good kid ends up with the wrong people" general backstory?

The choice to set Zeta in Alpha 1... I get it. But at the same time, I'd think the "most natural way" of dividing UC in three for an SRW would've been: MSG + OYW side stories (there's plenty of those, right?) and maybe we chronologically drag Stardust Memory in too.. Z-ZZ-CCA for the second game, and post-CCA -Crossbone, Victory, F91, etc.- for the third. -Not at all criticizing how Alpha did it.

28 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Man, if only we could know the full development stories...

Indeed indeed.🤓

28 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

But yeah, back with Alphaverse, SEED could've been in Alpha 2 and Destiny in Alpha 3 I suppose. A little better, though that still leaves a big question mark over justifying Alpha 1 not having anything SEED.

Even just having SEED in Alpha 2 probably would've alleviated any "they don't fit in" issues. Maybe you could say the Earth supremacism of the Titans led to a major uptick in anti-Coordinator xenophobia, because one form of bigotry begets another? This would lead numerous Coordinators living unseen ordinary lives on Earth to leave en masse for space during Alpha 1, the heroes simply didn't see it happen b/c they were too busy fighting. Moving entirely off the planet however, put more literal distance between Coordinators and Naturals, which ended up worsening the bigotry. Plus, being in the (already-existing, but not as packed) Plants literally brought the Coordinators closer together, creating a stronger in-group bond. You could also say Patrick Zala developed a liking for the Zabis' rhetoric, or Azrael the Titans'. And so, once the Londo Bell/Alpha Numbers destroyed the current dictatorial ideologues, the SEED ones selfishly moved to seize the power vacuum of hate.

Edited May 22 by Interdimensional Observer

[Acacia Sgt]

16 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

...That might explain the decision to make him a kidnapped, old memories-deleted, child pilot in the OGverse. Aiming for a "good kid ends up with the wrong people" general backstory?

I think the School stuff was already there in the Alphaverse, so yeah, there wasn't that much to change I suppose.

16 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The choice to set Zeta in Alpha 1... I get it. But at the same time, I'd think the "most natural way" of dividing UC in three for an SRW would've been: MSG + OYW side stories (there's plenty of those, right?) and maybe we chronologically drag Stardust Memory in too.. Z-ZZ-CCA for the second game, and post-CCA -Crossbone, Victory, F91, etc.- for the third. -Not at all criticizing how Alpha did it.

Yeah, since SRW always compresses the UC timeline, it can work like that. Alpha 1 certainly went overboard, since it had the interrupted-but-resumed OYW, War in the Pocket, Stardust Memories, Zeta, ZZ, CCA stuff, F91, and Victory all happening in the same game. This frontloaded approach is likely why Alpha 2 only had the Crossbone and CCA storylines, and possibly why Sentinel was considered too. Alpha 3 had nothing new for UC Gundam as a result, except maybe trying to put Sentinel again. SEED is the one that takes up the slack for Gundam plotlines. Though UC Gundam isn't entirely lacking, since Yazan Gable works for ZAFT during Alpha 3.

It certainly shows it could've been spaced better if you wanted something happening in every game, yeah.

This reminds me, when I was theorycrafting SRW fan stories, one of them was for a three-game structure. I actually was a bit tame with it, having only Zeta in the first part, only ZZ for the second, and only CCA for the third. Keeping it nice and simple, hahaha.

16 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Even just having SEED in Alpha 2 probably would've alleviated any "they don't fit in" issues. Maybe you could say the Earth supremacism of the Titans led to a major uptick in anti-Coordinator xenophobia, because one form of bigotry begets another? This would lead numerous Coordinators living unseen ordinary lives on Earth to leave en masse for space during Alpha 1, the heroes simply didn't see it happen b/c they were too busy fighting. Moving entirely off the planet however, put more literal distance between Coordinators and Naturals, which ended up worsening the bigotry. Plus, being in the Plants literally brought the Coordinators closer together, creating a stronger in-group bond. You could also say Patrick Zala developed a liking for the Zabis' rhetoric, or Azrael the Titans'. And so, once the Londo Bell/Alpha Numbers destroyed the current dictatorial ideologues, the SEED ones selfishly moved to seize the power vacuum of hate.

True, but I guess it goes back about integrating both settings. Since considering Newtypes, having the Coordinators be left alone for longer would still seem strange. Not saying it ain't doable, and the SRW writes have certainly proved they can manage to pull off something like that if needed. So it could be curious to see such a scenario in a game, perhaps.

For its worth, Z1 has Zeta and SEED Destiny happening concurrently. So you have SEED happening before the Titans are a thing. But then, they weren't from the same world before the world merging, from what I recall.

Edited May 22 by Acacia Sgt

[Acacia Sgt]

@Interdimensional Observer

Uh... oh dear...

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

7 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

@Interdimensional Observer

Uh... oh dear...

 

*Looks up which SRW-relevant role he performs*

...The White Devil himself????????

The anime world must be in a state of utter shock right now. Oh how the mighty are crashing (although given it was with a fan, perhaps the fame was a root corrupting cause of the alleged crime).

I suppose, one day, they would have to find somebody to replace him. The Japanese inclination to bury the character once the person is, would probably have to be bent for so prominent a fictional person. When they'd have to start looking is what has instantly changed.

8 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I think the School stuff was already there in the Alphaverse, so yeah, there wasn't that much to change I suppose.

Which sounds weird without Latune and Ouka around to help fill the ranks. A two-person institution sounds too empty.

8 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Yeah, since SRW always compresses the UC timeline, it can work like that. Alpha 1 certainly went overboard, since it had the interrupted-but-resumed OYW, War in the Pocket, Stardust Memories, Zeta, ZZ, CCA stuff, F91, and Victory all happening in the same game. This frontloaded approach is likely why Alpha 2 only had the Crossbone and CCA storylines, and possibly why Sentinel was considered too. Alpha 3 had nothing new for UC Gundam as a result, except maybe trying to put Sentinel again. SEED is the one that takes up the slack for Gundam plotlines. Though UC Gundam isn't entirely lacking, since Yazan Gable works for ZAFT during Alpha 3.

And here I thought -no evidence really other than glimpsing the flow charts- that ZZ would've been in Alpha 2. Alpha 1 was the debut of Macross (and IDK how to count Evangelion, lorewise it's the fourth category called Organic Robot I get, but thematically Real?), wasn't that prominent enough that they didn't need to do sooooooo much UC Gundam (+Wing) for Real storylines?

[Acacia Sgt]

47 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

*Looks up which SRW-relevant role he performs*

...The White Devil himself????????

The anime world must be in a state of utter shock right now. Oh how the mighty are crashing (although given it was with a fan, perhaps the fame was a root corrupting cause of the alleged crime).

It's not alleged at this point, the man himself has admitted it was true he had the affair and there was indeed abuse involved. So... yikes.

47 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I suppose, one day, they would have to find somebody to replace him. The Japanese inclination to bury the character once the person is, would probably have to be bent for so prominent a fictional person. When they'd have to start looking is what has instantly changed.

Regarding this... admittedly, I wouldn't know how it would be handled. Probably any big and current role would do have to be recasted if only due to necessity. Though when it comes to Amuro, the character has mostly just been showing up in supplemental and side works as of late (no longer big protagonistic or recurring ones as it was in the early UC Gundam works). To use SRW as an example, it's easier to just not have Amuro appear for a while (or anymore?) than revoice him (so anything from CCA and before is gonna take a forced rest, most likely). At least with how the Japanese deal with VA situations like this. Or somehow we get a voiceless game (very unlikely, though), and he can appear just fine without being attached to the VA.

47 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Which sounds weird without Latune and Ouka around to help fill the ranks. A two-person institution sounds too empty.

Well, perhaps it was enough, considering the liscenced characters can fill out roles as needed. Not in the case of the School, but like, it was not needed to have much focus. However, in the OGverse it had to be fleshed out, and thus more characters had to be created for it.

47 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And here I thought -no evidence really other than glimpsing the flow charts- that ZZ would've been in Alpha 2. Alpha 1 was the debut of Macross (and IDK how to count Evangelion, lorewise it's the fourth category called Organic Robot I get, but thematically Real?), wasn't that prominent enough that they didn't need to do sooooooo much UC Gundam (+Wing) for Real storylines?

Who knows. The Alphaverse overall has a lower Real to Super ratio. Gaiden had more Reals with Turn A Gundam, Gundam X, and Xabungle, but they only showed up in that game. Alpha 2 only added Crossbone and Brain Powerd (well, they're Real stat-wise, but otherwise they're like Evangelion in being pilotable organic beings) and was also a one-game deal; and Alpha 3 brings Macross 7 and Virtual-On (well, they're also Reals stat-wise). All this while UC Gundam has less and less (War in the Pocket was only in Alpha 1, Victory drops out after Gaiden, F91/Crossbone skips Gaiden and misses out Alpha 3, etc.).

Perhaps true to its name of Super Robot Wars, so Alpha 1 feels a bit of an outlier having as many Reals as Supers. Still, starting up with so much Gundam was still quite a choice.

Edited May 22 by Acacia Sgt

[Acacia Sgt]

Well, to make an ammendment. Since SRW as of late has mostly used post-CCA storyline stuff (T being an exception using ZZ and CCA's stories), with the Z and ZZ casts just being there as support, then they can still do that and just not include Amuro among them.

[Interdimensional Observer]

6 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It's not alleged at this point, the man himself has admitted it was true he had the affair and there was indeed abuse involved. So... yikes.

The legacy he could've died with, the honor he shall now die without. And for what? Disgusting idiot.

9 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Regarding this... admittedly, I wouldn't know how it would be handled. Probably any big and current role would do have to be recasted if only due to necessity. Though when it comes to Amuro, the character has mostly just been showing up in supplemental and side works as of late (no longer big protagonistic or recurring ones as it was in the early UC Gundam works). To use SRW as an example, it's easier to just not have Amuro appear for a while (or anymore?) than revoice him (so anything from CCA and before is gonna take a forced rest, most likely). At least with how the Japanese deal with VA situations like this. Or somehow we get a voiceless game (very unlikely, though), and he can appear just fine without being attached to the VA.

...And to think he has with the one exception appeared in every UCG SRW up to this point. Well, no more.

Would recycling lines already existing be considered distasteful? I'm not entirely sure on the etiquette of that. Particularly since the affair is relatively recent, long after those now-ancient roles that brought the VA to fame. (I know you can recycle lines if somebody died -but that's different from criminal behavior.)

13 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Who knows. The Alphaverse overall has a lower Real to Super ratio. Gaiden had more Reals with Turn A Gundam, Gundam X, and Xabungle, but they only showed up in that game. Alpha 2 only added Brain Powerd (well, they're Real stat-wise, but otherwise they're like Evangelion in being pilotable organic beings) and was also a one-game deal; and Alpha 3 brings Macross 7 and Virtual-On (well, they're also Reals stat-wise). All this while UC Gundam has less and less (War in the Pocket was only in Alpha 1, Victory drops out after Gaiden, F91/Crossbone skips Gaiden and misses out Alpha 3, etc.).

And yet, despite being prolific in SRW at the time, the Alphaverse never once featured G Gundam. An obvious Super pick you'd think. The perpetual absence would say to me keeping it out was very intentional.

15 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, perhaps it was enough, considering the liscenced characters can fill out roles as needed. Not in the case of the School, but like, it was not needed to have much focus. However, in the OGverse it had to be fleshed out, and thus more characters had to be created for it.

I'm just thinking of 30 and Edge/Az. Their situation being Gifted and forced into an inhuman institution reminded me of the School, but felt very underbaked. Partly, I would attribute this to Mitsuba being the true Original lead of 30, and also the Quaestors having to do with Edge's/Az's past.

[Acacia Sgt]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

...And to think he has with the one exception appeared in every UCG SRW up to this point. Well, no more.

Would recycling lines already existing be considered distasteful? I'm not entirely sure on the etiquette of that. Particularly since the affair is relatively recent, long after those now-ancient roles that brought the VA to fame. (I know you can recycle lines if somebody died -but that's different from criminal behavior.)

Yeah, I think in this case they wouldn't even simply reuse lines. But well, time will tell.

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And yet, despite being prolific in SRW at the time, the Alphaverse never once featured G Gundam. An obvious Super pick you'd think. The perpetual absence would say to me keeping it out was very intentional.

Yeah, it happens I guess. Perhaps they felt it was already too much Gundam. Or they wanted Alphaverse to be a mostly UC Gundam (+ Wing) affair. Since the only time they added different Gundam series (though technically Turn A is part of the UC world, in an implied distant-future kind of deal) was in Gaiden, which was not in the original outline of the Alphaverse, and then in a situation that would let them drop them afterwards (thanks to the bad future plotline).