Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Sooks]

3 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

This is true but(there’s a but) to say “all fates characters are one dimensional gimmicks” as a blanket statement for the entire cast of the game then it becomes blatently false if he had only meant to refer one or two characters fair enough but the entire cast? No especially when characters like Xander, Takumi, Beruka, and Oboro exist. By the common definition of one-dimensional those characters are not one dimensional that is a fact as these characters do have nuance to them. This is exactly what I mean when I say you always hide behind the opinion card if you excuse me for being blunt. You are doing nothing but deflecting my argument. You aren’t arguing. You’re deflecting.

But I wasn’t being serious.

[null]

4 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

This is true but(there’s a but) to say “all fates characters are one dimensional gimmicks” as a blanket statement for the entire cast of the game then it becomes blatently false if he had only meant to refer one or two characters fair enough but the entire cast? No especially when characters like Xander, Takumi, Beruka, and Oboro exist. By the common definition of one-dimensional those characters are not one dimensional that is a fact as these characters do have nuance to them. This is exactly what I mean when I say you always hide behind the opinion card if you excuse me for being blunt. You are doing nothing but deflecting my argument. You aren’t arguing. You’re deflecting.

I wasn't trying to argue in the first place. "Hiding behind the opinion card" is exactly what happens when someone expresses an opinion. Because it's not an argument, not a provable fact, but a thought or perspective someone has on something.

Nuance is likewise subjective. Where one may detect incredible depth or nuance, another may not find it at all. They read/listened to/experienced the same media, right? What happened? They simply developed diverging perspectives on the same piece of media. You may find characters like the ones you mentioned to express nuance, depth, etc., but for others they're as flat as a sheet of paper. Let people think what they want. There's no need to be so antagonistic about it.

2 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Why is every Edelgard support good?

Because you think they are. Whether or not they're good is entirely up to the person watching the supports.

[Ottservia]

1 minute ago, Sooks said:

But I wasn’t being serious.

Even if you weren’t you still making that point. And that point isn’t true. Just because it’s a joke that doesn’t mean there isn’t a point being made with it. 

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

[Lightcosmo]

6 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

I wasn't trying to argue in the first place. "Hiding behind the opinion card" is exactly what happens when someone expresses an opinion. Because it's not an argument, not a provable fact, but a thought or perspective someone has on something.

Nuance is likewise subjective. Where one may detect incredible depth or nuance, another may not find it at all. They read/listened to/experienced the same media, right? What happened? They simply developed diverging perspectives on the same piece of media. You may find characters like the ones you mentioned to express nuance, depth, etc., but for others they're as flat as a sheet of paper. Let people think what they want. There's no need to be so antagonistic about it.

Good points, but as always, sadly going to be ignored. 

Edit: and no this isnt a personal jab, just me observing.

Edited December 18, 2020 by lightcosmo

[Saint Rubenio]

10 minutes ago, Sooks said:

I thought he was a boring character at first, because he comes across as just a scholar, but then I saw his Dorothea and Edelgard supports. Fantastic.

I feel like most of Three Houses's characters suffer from this. They're not all that at first glance, but if you look into them, they're better than they first appear.

...Except the community will only tell you to look into certain characters, while writing others off as being one-note for no good reason. I must admit, it really annoys me that everyone's like "haha Leonie only ever talks about Jeralt! I read her C and B supports with Byleth and that's all I need to see!" but then they turn around and start saying stuff like "NOOOOOO BERNADETTA IS NOT ONE-NOTE, YOU MUST READ ALL HER SUPPORTS, ALL HER MONASTERY LINES, ALL HER CRIT LINES, ALL HER ENDINGS, ALL THE DESCRIPTIONS OF THE ITEMS IN HER INVENTORY BEFORE YOU WRITE HER OFF!" It's like you only deserve the benefit of the doubt if you're a cute animu waifu.

But, of course, the game is partly to blame for this. Hiding the entire personality of characters in their B supports is kind of not great.

...How I wish I enjoyed Three Houses's gameplay, seriously. I want to like the game with Hanneman in it, but I can't! What a shame... I know, entirely unrelated to what I was saying, but it's the truth.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Saint Rubenio

[Sooks]

5 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Even if you weren’t you still making that point. And that point isn’t true. Just because it’s a joke that doesn’t mean there isn’t a point being made with it. 

But when I say I’m not being serious it means I don’t mean it.

6 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Because you think they are. Whether or not they're good is entirely up to the person watching the supports.

Not you too!

[Ottservia]

9 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

wasn't trying to argue in the first place. "Hiding behind the opinion card" is exactly what happens when someone expresses an opinion. Because it's not an argument, not a provable fact, but a thought or perspective someone has on something.

Nuance is likewise subjective. Where one may detect incredible depth or nuance, another may not find it at all. They read/listened to/experienced the same media, right? What happened? They simply developed diverging perspectives on the same piece of media. You may find characters like the ones you mentioned to express nuance, depth, etc., but for others they're as flat as a sheet of paper. Let people think what they want. There's no need to be so antagonistic about it.

Oh wow what a surprise you’re doing it again. Saying it’s all subjective is the definition of hiding behind the opinion card. You’re directly contradicting yourself because didn’t you say before that I was wrong about PoR and saying Greil’s death doesn’t matter to the story. Because that’s an different interpretation someone can subjectively make. Is it correct? Like hell it is. The story makes it very clear the impact greil’s death has on the story and characters but if it’s all subjective they CANNOT be wrong about that. It’s subjective there’s no such thing as right or wrong. If you even remotely think someone can be right or wrong about something you lose all right to claim subjectivity. Because by admitting someone can be wrong, then you are inherently admitting to a level of objectivity and thus it’s not all subjective. 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Ottservia

[Sooks]

This was a mistake, guys, it was all a mistake...

[null]

1 minute ago, Ottservia said:

PoR and saying Greil’s death doesn’t matter to the story.

Except there's clear evidence of that influencing Ike's decisions and motivations. That is a provable fact.

Not the same thing as artistic interpretation.

[Murozaki]

2 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Oh wow what a surprise you’re doing it again. Saying it’s all subjective is the definition of hiding behind the opinion card. You’re directly contradicting yourself because didn’t you say before that I was wrong about PoR and saying Greil’s death doesn’t matter to the story. Because that’s an different interpretation someone can subjectively make. Is it correct? Like hell it is. The story makes it very clear the impact greil’s death has on the story and characters but if it’s all subjective they CANNOT be wrong about that. It’s subjective there’s no such thing as right or wrong. If you even remotely think someone can be right or wrong about something you lose all right to claim subjectivity because by admitting someone can be wrong you are inherently admitting to a level of objectivity and thus it’s not all subjective. 

Calm down. Not saying you're wrong or not, but seriously, even if you're not being aggressive you're making yourself look like it.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Kinda ironic that I theme character(s) from Three Houses although not even caring for this game in the slighest.

Well, Golden Deers had a very cool party in terms of characters at least.

Claude, Hilda, Marianne and especially Lysithea were all characters I could totally identify with.

 

Unfortunately I'm out of Renne emos for now, so I have to leave now.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Jules Necrofantasia

[Spara]

4 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

...Except the community will only tell you to look into certain characters, while writing others off as being one-note for no good reason. I must admit, it really annoys me that everyone's like "haha Leonie only ever talks about Jeralt! I read her C and B supports with Byleth and that's all I need to see!" but then they turn around and start saying stuff like "NOOOOOO BERNADETTA IS NOT ONE-NOTE, YOU MUST READ ALL HER SUPPORTS, ALL HER MONASTERY LINES, ALL HER CRIT LINES, ALL HER ENDINGS, ALL THE DESCRIPTIONS OF THE ITEMS IN HER INVENTORY BEFORE YOU WRITE HER OFF!" It's like you only deserve the benefit of the doubt if you're a cute animu waifu.

Yeah, it's rather unfortunate that this mentality exists - people cannot make up their damn minds when it comes to whether or not supports ought to be discussed. 

All the more reason to praise TRS's support system, I guess. 

[Sooks]

4 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I feel like most of Three Houses's characters suffer from this. They're not all that at first glance, but if you look into them, they're better than they first appear.

...Except the community will only tell you to look into certain characters, while writing others off as being one-note for no good reason. I must admit, it really annoys me that everyone's like "haha Leonie only ever talks about Jeralt! I read her C and B supports with Byleth and that's all I need to see!" but then they turn around and start saying stuff like "NOOOOOO BERNADETTA IS NOT ONE-NOTE, YOU MUST READ ALL HER SUPPORTS, ALL HER MONASTERY LINES, ALL HER CRIT LINES, ALL HER ENDINGS, ALL THE DESCRIPTIONS OF THE ITEMS IN HER INVENTORY BEFORE YOU WRITE HER OFF!" It's like you only deserve the benefit of the doubt if you're a cute animu waifu.

But, of course, the game is partly to blame for this. Hiding the entire personality of characters in their B supports is kind of not great.

...How I wish I enjoyed Three Houses's gameplay, seriously. I want to like the game with Hanneman in it, but I can't! What a shame... I know, entirely unrelated to what I was saying, but it's the truth.

The difference between Bernadetta and Leonie is that Leonie’s supports aren’t all about what she talks about in the story and monastery dialogue, whereas Bernadetta’s... are. She is one note, but the discussion there is really if having depth makes you not one note. But even then, her depth is handled so horribly that it doesn’t even help her character imo...

[Ottservia]

1 minute ago, Murozaki said:

Calm down. Not saying you're wrong or not, but seriously, even if you're not being aggressive you're making yourself look like it.

I’m sorry this whole argument is just pissing me off to no end because @twilitfalchion just keeps contradicting himself. I do need to calm down though

[Sooks]

This is why we can’t have nice things :’)

[null]

 

[Sooks]

6 minutes ago, Jules Necrofantasia said:

Kinda ironic that I theme character(s) from Three Houses although not even caring for this game in the slighest.

That’s because it has the best characters in the series 😉

(IMO!! Jeez)

[Ottservia]

6 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Except there's clear evidence of that influencing Ike's decisions and motivations. That is a provable fact.

Not the same thing as artistic interpretation.

Well how about this? You can interpret Ike has no character development when that is in fact provably not true because he develops out of response to Greil’s death. I can also say all of PoR’s characters are nothing but one note gimmicks. Would you say I’m wrong there? Cause that statement is incorrect. PoR characters do have nuance to them and develop and grow. Like if you think those statements can be wrong then you are blatently contradicting yourself. Its provably false that the characters in fates lack nuance or layers because they don’t. They have more aspects to them than the one note gimmick. That is provably true.

[Saint Rubenio]

10 minutes ago, Spara said:

Yeah, it's rather unfortunate that this mentality exists - people cannot make up their damn minds when it comes to whether or not supports ought to be discussed. 

Oftentimes it appears that whether characters are deep or not depends on whether the person speaking likes them or not. I can't say I'm too happy about that. You're free to love or hate folks, but don't diss my bois just because you personally don't like 'em, dammit!

...That being said, Derrick is objectively the deepest character in Berwick Saga videogames, and if you disagree you have no taste in anime waifus. Also Volo bad.

10 minutes ago, Spara said:

All the more reason to praise TRS's support system, I guess. 

TRS has Zieg and Kate. It's unfair to compete against Zieg and Kate.

But yeah, I always liked TRS/BWS's systems better than FE's classic support system. Sure, there's less character interactions, but the ones that do exist gain greater quality.

...Generally. Then there's stuff like Zachariah, Shirou, Dean or Aegina. Though I must admit, I find it profoundly hilarious how Zachariah ceases to exist after he's recruited.

9 minutes ago, Sooks said:

The difference between Bernadetta and Leonie is that Leonie’s supports aren’t all about what she talks about in the story and monastery dialogue, whereas Bernadetta’s... are.

That was secretly my point, Bernadetta is one of my least favorite characters in the game, I took great pleasure in murdering her in that big, stupid field.

Quote

She is one note, but the discussion there is really if having depth makes you not one note. But even then, her depth is handled so horribly that it doesn’t even help her character imo...

Defending Leonie against Bernadetta, and liking Hanneman? Sheesh, turns out we don't disagree on everything after all!

Edited December 18, 2020 by Saint Rubenio

[Spara]

1 minute ago, Saint Rubenio said:

...That being said, Derrick is objectively the deepest character in Berwick Saga videogames, and if you disagree you have no taste in anime waifus.

YES!

1 minute ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Also Volo bad.

NO!

1 minute ago, Saint Rubenio said:

...Generally. Then there's stuff like Zachariah, Shirou, Dean or Aegina. Though I must admit, I find it profoundly hilarious how Zachariah ceases to exist after he's recruited.

And, of course, the iconic "Yes" from Shirou. Feels bad for that guy.

The thing about Dean and Aegina is that they still have great interactions despite their admittedly poor arcs. Dean's recruitment event is wonderful, and any scene with Aegina/Rosalie/Sherpa is fun to watch. Too bad they just don't develop well at all. Heck, I got really bored a few days ago and wrote a one-page short story about Dean becoming the homicidal maniac we all love to watch when he bonks an enemy. Basically, there's a lot more they absolutely could've done with these two, though that scene in Chapter 12 for Aegina is just disjunct as all hell, and probably needed to be completely rethought, while Dean just needed an extra scene or two. 

[null]

4 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Well how about this? You can interpret Ike has no character development when that is in fact provably not true because he develops out of response to Greil’s death. I can also say all of PoR’s characters are nothing but one note gimmicks. Would you say I’m wrong there? Cause that statement is incorrect. PoR characters do have nuance to them and develop and grow. Like if you think those statements can be wrong then you are blatently contradicting yourself. Its provably false that the characters in fates lack nuance or layers because they don’t. They have more aspects to them than the one note gimmick. That is provably true.

I think you have the idea that I think everything is subjective. I don't. Obviously, Greil's death creates new motivation for Ike going forward in the story, for example. That is a fact.

But to say whether or not someone thinks Ike is a deep character is indeed subjective. Some find him bland and one-note. Others think him to be well-developed and interesting. I fall somewhere in the middle, personally. But there is a distinction between provable fact and subjective interpretation. I'm not confusing the two with my statements.

Facts are facts. Opinions are opinions. I've never said anything different than that.

shrugs

[Sooks]

8 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Defending Leonie against Bernadetta, and liking Hanneman? Sheesh, turns out we don't disagree on everything after all!

....what did we disagree on in the first place? Tressa’s story vs Therion’s when I don’t remember either that well?

[Acacia Sgt]

Why is this happening again...

Don't answer that, there's no question mark in there.

[null]

My original comment wasn't meant to lead to this pointless discussion. I simply took issue with the antagonistic attitude directed towards someone else.

Edited December 18, 2020 by twilitfalchion