Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Codename Shrimp]

57 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Can you think of examples of trans representation in videogames?

I can

More than Lukako, even.

There was a shitstorm in the fate fanbase due to people ingoring the trans characters and calling non-trans ones trans and attacking the people who don't wanna buy their bs.

57 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

but Lukako's handling is... uh, imperfect

aside from that one scene, i find Lukako's handling of a person being rejected by society and only accepted by his friends (or maybe that one friend) to be quite good.

Except the ending, fuck the ending, all my homies hate the ending

25 minutes ago, Armagon said:

???

25 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Bro what the *fuck* is "egg coded".

I heard about a subreddit about this kek

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition-

[Eltosian Kadath]

57 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Or do they?

What games are you playing, or series are you watching that have notable trans representation? A lot of what I have seen is either censored in the west, or basically following the Hays Code.

 

58 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

 

There're some cases even in FE, for example Claude. He acts a bit out of the norm and suddenly people are convinvced he is bi, and when it turns out he wasn't... outrage. Even if other options exist.

To be fair, some of the pre-release material showing Claude implied a far more romantic relationship with male Byleth.

 

51 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I get that part and it's understandable, what I don't get is when the character is revealed to not be trans (or just LGBT in general), they get mad and accuse the writers of "queerbaiting" like nah bro, you did that to yourself. Guess what's happening with Rosado Fire Emblem right now.

While not all claims of queerbaiting are fair, queerbaiting is a thing that creators will do...

 

29 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Gay representation has started to become more common recently, but we are talking about trans folks here. Can you think of examples of trans representation in videogames? Or heck, any form of media? Genuine question, because I honestly can't.

In the Japanese version of Paper Mario and the Thousand Year Door, Vivian is transwoman. The main murders in both the Deadly Premontition games are transwoman (and its just and cringily bad as it sounds). Bridget from Guilty Gear. The Undead Sassy Witch in Vampire survivor. Poison from Final Fight, but it should be noted that the only reason this was done was to avoid censorship surrounding females being enemies in a beat-em-up game (and in the American SNES games she was replaced with a generic male character anyway). Madeline from Celeste.

 

31 minutes ago, ping said:

I think this is the point where one could bring up Naoto in Persona 4 and then run the hell away from the nuclear fallout that is inevitably going to occur.

I hate to say it, but the way she is portrayed makes it clear that the creators of Persona believe being trans is a childish fantasy that Naoto doesn't actually follow through with...In the American translation at least, not as sure about the Japanese version as the creators were explicit about the fact that they "made things more subtle" for what they viewed as a more bigoted western audience.

 

27 minutes ago, 3PercentCrit said:

Since this is a website mostly for talking about Fire Emblem, I thought I'd throw in that Kyza is portrayed as non-binary in the Japanese release of Radiant Dawn, and uses they/them pronouns in his Meet The Heroes.

 

Straight (or non-binary) from the wiki page:

• In Meet The Heroes, Kyza is referred to using they/them pronouns.
  • Because of this, Kyza can be considered the first non-binary character in the Fire Emblem series.

Good catch, I had forgotten about them thanks to how difficult it is to encounter them.

 

22 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Madeline in Celeste (official retcon)

Not really a retcon, more that they clarified online for those that didn't piece it together, and to be fair one of the biggest hints was a bit meta to begin with.

 

27 minutes ago, Armagon said:

 

But if it's from Japan, it's 100% a coincidence. Well, 99%.

Its a bit more complicated than that, as what trans representation that is in Japanese games tends to get intentionally censored out of western releases.

[Lightcosmo]

18 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

There was a shitstorm in the fate fanbase due to people ingoring the trans characters and calling non-trans ones trans and attacking the people who don't wanna buy their bs.

Easier than accepting the truth? XD

[Lightcosmo]

One of Luigi's best looks (imo) is so good looking in Smash! 

Casino themed Luigi was always such an awesome idea from SM64DS minigame room!

[Eltosian Kadath]

It is kinda telling that I can't think of any transmen from videogames...

Any coming to mind for anyone else on here?

[Armagon]

18 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

??

I think the funniest bit is the whole "mistranslation unlike the bigots line". Cause yeah, there are weirdos online who will claim any LGBT was mistranslated (people were malding and coping over Lily Zombieland Saga) but this time it comes across as "it's only bigoted when I'm not the one claiming it).

9 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

While not all claims of queerbaiting are fair, queerbaiting is a thing that creators will do...

Oh I'm sure but people do like to jump the gun.

Like Rosado is the second character in recent Nintendo history that Nintendo has to be like "no he isn't trans" (albeit in-game), the first being Shiver Splatoon. And in both cases, it's characters with androgynous appearances.

On that subject, Iono Pokemon literally has the trans colors and her names are plays on "idk" but she is confirmed to be a girl and I don't think I've seen people cope over that one.

15 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Not really a retcon, more that they clarified online for those that didn't piece it together, and to be fair one of the biggest hints was a bit meta to begin with.

I do remember they put it out like a year or two after the game came out and I was like "really"? But then so was the Matrix so yeah, it holds up.

[Codename Shrimp]

4 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

To be fair, some of the pre-release material showing Claude implied a far more romantic relationship with male Byleth.

 

Is it just the wink/tease/dance?

That's like 1% implying, 99% people headcanon'ing and raging later.

Same vibes as rightist assholes seeing man liking something feminine and directly calling gay as a slur, just in reverse.

12 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

series are you watching that have notable trans representation?

And you can find series targeted towards that market if you search for it. Either manga or games/VN, there's alot, not popular, but they exist.

 

[Codename Shrimp]

4 minutes ago, Armagon said:

"it's only bigoted when I'm not the one claiming it

Horseshoe theory XD

4 minutes ago, Armagon said:

people were malding and coping over Lily Zombieland Saga

wait what happened there. I didn't watch S2 due to laziness so did i miss a big shitstorm

[Codename Shrimp]

And honestly, putting people into categories like this...

Stinks of right wing assholery.

[Interdimensional Observer]

18 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

It is kinda telling that I can't think of any transmen from videogames...

Any coming to mind for anyone else on here?

None genuine (so excluding cases that really aren't like FFV's Faris) that I can readily think of.

I've never taken a gender studies class or anything, but I get the impression (probably for a whole slew of reasons) that transmen are basically invisible in the public mindset.

 

17 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

And you can find series targeted towards that market if you search for it. Either manga or games/VN, there's alot, not popular, but they exist.

The margins of entertainment, where the marginalized find refuge. The Internet and sites like Patreon and itch.io for helping to fund and hosting such projects on the fringes is something to be appreciated.

 

34 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Good catch, I had forgotten about them thanks to how difficult it is to encounter them.

Hearing that Kyza uses "atashi" as their first-person pronoun in Japanese didn't help either. For I read that a male using atashi usually means they're a gay/queer stereotype. Then you add in their crush on Ranulf and it was easier to assume that they're cisgay.

 

24 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Casino themed Luigi was always such an awesome idea from SM64DS minigame room!

It does suit him. Nice guy and usually subservient to his big bro, befits a casino worker. Looks snazzy too. Helped by the fact I played so much that I reached max coins playing the card games in SM64DS.

[Armagon]

11 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

wait what happened there. I didn't watch S2 due to laziness so did i miss a big shitstorm

This was actually S1, where they cover Lily's backstory. Lily is not her original name, it was something else (I forget but it was a more masculine name). Her cause of death was shock after seeing facial hair begin to grow on her which......is honestly a bit silly ngl. Like all the other characters' deaths are treated with the expected seriousness but Lily was literally "she saw facial hair grow on her once and called an Uber to Heaven".

Regardless Lily is confirmed trans.

[Codename Shrimp]

6 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Regardless Lily is confirmed trans.

Was the reaction

worthy

Because i honestly don't remember much, then again it was like 5 years ago

Edited January 10, 2023 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition-

[Acacia Sgt]

7 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Help me, Acacia. Help me. Just one vote.

Sorry, Ruben, but I'd rather vote for the same person than spread votes.

8 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Hearing that Kyza uses "atashi" as their first-person pronoun in Japanese didn't help either. For I read that a male using atashi usually means they're a gay/queer stereotype. Then you add in their crush on Ranulf and it was easier to assume that they're cisgay.

Of course, at this point can we even know what was their intention back then when creating Kyza's character? Since there's always the chance it changed by the time they were finally added to Heroes, on either or both sides of the Pacific. Though I'd guess it's still the same back in Japan?

Edited January 10, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[Armagon]

2 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Was the reaction

worthy

Because i honestly don't remember much, then again it was like 5 years ago

People were malding, people were coping that it was a mistranslation, etc. Some people just dropped the show after that episode probably lmao.

So yes, popcorn worthy indeed.

[Dayni]

What's the thread today-

*People discussing other people complaining about LGBT (Mostly T) representation.

It's a good thing this thread isn't read by the whole internet. Nevertheless I have a zilch amount of points to raise, so good day.

 

[Acacia Sgt]

So out of curiosity I decided to do some digging and...

Well, it's interesting to compare the then and now:

There's just like one single post bringing up about Kyza possibly being trans, the rest is a debate on "homosexual or not?"

Edited January 10, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[Armagon]

Hilarious how she fumbled her career that hard.

[Codename Shrimp]

 

[Dayni]

Someone's bought DMC3 on Steam I see

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

25 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

So out of curiosity I decided to do some digging and...

Well, it's interesting to compare the then and now:

There's just like one single post bringing up about Kyza possibly being trans, the rest is a debate on "homosexual or not?"

To do a much more recent digging up that seems to involve those fluent in Japanese.:

Special Heroes - Like Clockwork - Page 2 - Fire Emblem Heroes - Serenes Forest Forums

[Codename Shrimp]

15 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

To do a much more recent digging up that seems to involve those fluent in Japanese.:

Special Heroes - Like Clockwork - Page 2 - Fire Emblem Heroes - Serenes Forest Forums

Why are english localizations like this

[3PercentCrit]

2 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Can you think of examples of trans representation in videogames? Or heck, any form of media? Genuine question, because I honestly can't.

I just remembered what I think could possibly be the weirdest trans representation has to be Gabriel from ULTRAKILL (The character in my profile picture). Basically, the New Blood store (The publishers of ULTRAKILL) released an official body pillow of the character. The artist (Can't find who made it on the item's page) of it portrays Gabriel as a trans man in his... not-so-family-friendly art. Basically, the artist of the character's official body pillow shows him as a trans man.

Edited January 10, 2023 by 3PercentCrit

[Acacia Sgt]

35 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

To do a much more recent digging up that seems to involve those fluent in Japanese.:

Special Heroes - Like Clockwork - Page 2 - Fire Emblem Heroes - Serenes Forest Forums

Yeah, I'd certainly put stock on Ice Dragon when it comes to explaining translation matters.

[Saint Rubenio]

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

There is the very recent case of the Guilty Gear fighting game franchise turning longtime-femboy Bridget trans. Some criticized the move as "Bridget used to insist to others that they're still a man despite looking feminine", yet others are fine with the change. Although not quite the same, there as the case in Guilty Gear as well of the character Testament from what I read changing from male to non-binary, a move which I saw in comments was well received without the good faith/non-bigoted criticism.

My current avi is sorta relevant to the current discussion. But it's combination of big spoilers and underdeveloped, without actually being bad.

2 hours ago, ping said:

I think this is the point where one could bring up Naoto in Persona 4 and then run the hell away from the nuclear fallout that is inevitably going to occur.

  Hide contents

The TL;DR is that Naoto initially very much comes across as a trans boy, but the game then clarifies that, nonono, she is just angry that patriarchal Japan will never take her serious as a woman detective, which is then basically ignored in their support convos social link in favour of the perspecitive that they just lost their passion for solving mysteries.

 

2 hours ago, 3PercentCrit said:

Since this is a website mostly for talking about Fire Emblem, I thought I'd throw in that Kyza is portrayed as non-binary in the Japanese release of Radiant Dawn, and uses they/them pronouns in his Meet The Heroes.

 

Straight (or non-binary) from the wiki page:

• In Meet The Heroes, Kyza is referred to using they/them pronouns.
  • Because of this, Kyza can be considered the first non-binary character in the Fire Emblem series.

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

Lily in Zombieland Saga, Juniper in Xenoblade 3, Bridget in Guilty Gear (official retcon), Madeline in Celeste (official retcon), a really buff Granblue Fantasy character, uhhhh..... that's it I think.

Well, that's certainly a lot more than I expected! Of course, "way more than I expected" still only amounts to exactly eight characters, and like half of these come with asterisks, so... I mean, it looks like a lot when you put them one after the other like this, but it's still only eight characters. With asterisks. It's better than nothing, but it's... not that good.

Quote

I suppose I should bring up the Matrix being a trans allegory as a whole.

Never ceases to amuse me how the other side loves to talk about red pills and blue pills while missing the allegories, or the far more basic fact that the directors of that movie are now both trans.

2 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

There was a shitstorm in the fate fanbase due to people ingoring the trans characters and calling non-trans ones trans and attacking the people who don't wanna buy their bs.

Wasn't Fate the series with the genderbent historical figures? My understanding of this series is limited, but genderbending historical figures into cis girls or boys seems a fair bit different from just plain trans characters. But then, I'd have to ask you to elaborate on this.

Quote

aside from that one scene, i find Lukako's handling of a person being rejected by society and only accepted by his friends (or maybe that one friend) to be quite good.

Except the ending, fuck the ending, all my homies hate the ending

That's a nice couple of strings attached lol

Nah but honestly, I did feel Lukako was decent. The part where Okarin seriously considers the idea that Luka might want to have a sex change was really surprising to see, and I like how Luka is shown to be much more comfortable in the other timeline. But then, there's some strings attached, like the fact that the surprisingly good scene was then undermined by the vegetables shit, so I feel "imperfect" really is a good way to describe it.

Quote

Also this one's a rather unique case but The Doctor (and Time-Lords in general). Because Time-Lords can change gender during regeneration and while it's implied that the gender they were originally born with is their "default", Time-Lords are effectively gender-fluid. This was an idea explored back in the 70s but wasn't put into practice until the 2010s with the introduction of The Master's first and currently only female incarnation "Missy".

And then everyone derided that one for being badly written, so it's likely it'll never happen again because now everyone associates "female doctor" with "bad doctor." Even if that's profoundly unfair.

Quote

Now wouldn't it be something if a game approaching not-ultra-mega-unfathomably-deeply-niche had a non-offensive character proudly in drag in it? Alas, right now I can't see that ever being the case, what with the US finding drag under reactionary bans and literal physical attacks in some instances.

Rosado actually looks like he could go both ways right now. His personal skill and the series' track record could hint at him being another awful retread of the lame "haha gurl actually goi" routine, but the dialogue we've gotten out of him so far makes him seem to have a bit of an attitude. A vain jerk who loves himself, which is a far different direction than every other member of this trite stereotype.

...That, and while it does show some danger of him being a joke, I do love how his personal skill would seem to imply he overtly flirts with men on the battlefield. That's bold, I dig it... again, as long as it's not used as an excuse for the lame gag.

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

His English voice isn't exactly feminine so we're already past the "feminine men must sound feminine" stage.

That's true. The joke's not going to work in English.

Quote

See cause like that's the sort of thing I'd expect from Western creators, they tend to be a little more blatant about who's LGBT. Even if....not in the most flattering ways.

But if it's from Japan, it's 100% a coincidence. Well, 99%.

In Rosado's case? 101%, considering he's been established as firmly male. Actually, it better be a coincidence, because intentionally putting the trans flag on his head and then pulling a switcheroo would be super meanspirited.

1 hour ago, lightcosmo said:

One of Luigi's best looks (imo) is so good looking in Smash! 

Casino themed Luigi was always such an awesome idea from SM64DS minigame room!

Casino Loogi is great, I agree.

Wait, but where's this from? That doesn't look like Smash.

1 hour ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Is it just the wink/tease/dance?

That's like 1% implying, 99% people headcanon'ing and raging later.

Same vibes as rightist assholes seeing man liking something feminine and directly calling gay as a slur, just in reverse.

To be completely honest, I disagree with equating "I'm angry and disappointed that it's so difficult to have the existence of people like me acknowledged in media, any time they come close it always turns out to be a cis person" with "I'm angry and disappointed that the wokes are trying to destroy videogames by putting gays and trains in them, because their existence instantly ruins everything." But that's just me.

1 hour ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

 

Lumera? I did not expect that today, but I do prefer it to the obvious, boring route of "lords jr. next."

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Sorry, Ruben, but I'd rather vote for the same person than spread votes.

Cock.

4 minutes ago, 3PercentCrit said:

I just remembered what I think could possibly be the weirdest trans representation has to be Gabriel from ULTRAKILL (The character in my profile picture). Basically, the New Blood store (The publishers of ULTRAKILL) released an official body pillow of the character. The artist (Can't find who made it on the item's page) of it portrays Gabriel as a trans man in his... not-so-family-friendly art.

Oh hey, nice, last minute addition. Make that nine. That's... interesting, to say the least.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Saint Rubenio

[Codename Shrimp]

16 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Wasn't Fate the series with the genderbent historical figures?

yes, but it has "legit" trans characters as well

For example: Leonardo became Mona Lisa, not due to "haha genderbend" but because they legit wanted to.

16 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I disagree with equating "I'm angry and disappointed that it's so difficult to have the existence of people like me acknowledged in media, any time they come close it always turns out to be a cis person" with "I'm angry and disappointed that the wokes are trying to destroy videogames by putting gays and trains in them, because their existence instantly ruins everything." But that's just me

I am putting more ephasis on the "He looks x he must be y". Putting the people in categories.

and i wish it was just

16 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

"I'm angry and disappointed that it's so difficult to have the existence of people like me acknowledged in media, any time they come close it always turns out to be a cis person"

this.

It turns into swear words, name calling and sluring on the same level as rightists, and using the same arguements (but on the other side), and trying to downright force their bs down people's throats.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition-