Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Codename Shrimp]

6 minutes ago, Sidereal Wraith said:

If you think Alear is actually a compelling  protagonist Shrimp-kun then you have my condolences.

They are more compelling than Marth, Alm, Celica, Sigurd, Seliph, Leafy boy, Roy, Hector, Lyn, Eliwood, Ephraim, Eirika, Ike, Miccy, Kris, Chrom, Robin, Corirn, Claude, Dimitri, Edelgard and Shez

There, i said it 😛 

[Sidereal Wraith]

1 minute ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Because Mark has no actual character.

I know, I’m not arguing that point. But I’d rather have a silent self insert who doesn’t derail the plot rather then an avatar protagonist that the writers have no idea what to do with them. 

[Eltosian Kadath]

1 minute ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

does nothing wrong, you name it

He literally kills every living family member we see, for reasons that are obviously his own mistake, and viscerally regrets it...

[Sidereal Wraith]

1 minute ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

They are more compelling than Marth, Alm, Celica, Sigurd, Seliph, Leafy boy, Roy, Hector, Lyn, Eliwood, Ephraim, Eirika, Ike, Miccy, Kris, Chrom, Robin, Corirn, Claude, Dimitri, Edelgard and Shez

There, i said it 😛 

My condolences for the loss of your prefrontal cortex Shrimp-kun.

[Sidereal Wraith]

*Wraith falls out of his chair laughing his ass off*

[Codename Shrimp]

7 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

for reasons that are obviously his own mistake

Not really. Not even close. The game even fails at conveying he did anything wrong.

And his regret is more fake than Corn's on people he never met.

9 minutes ago, Sidereal Wraith said:

But I’d rather have a silent self insert who doesn’t derail the plot rather then an avatar protagonist that the writers have no idea what to do with them. 

Ah Alm

[Sidereal Wraith]

2 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Ah Alm

*Wraith continues to laugh uncontrollably from the ground*

Edited April 5, 2023 by Sidereal Wraith

[Codename Shrimp]

And literally every MC in the series has a so called "Avatar mechanics" packed into them

From choosing their romances, to the routes they take (even if mini ones), choosing recruitments or even letting them killing people. That's not the characters doing them, that's us controlling them to do that.

The only one who doesn't have anything of the sort is Sigurd, because his everything is set in stone.

[Codename Shrimp]

5 minutes ago, Sidereal Wraith said:

*Wraith continues to laughs uncontrollably from the ground*

If Alm's name was changeable he will be by far the most hated main character in the series with how much the game sucks him off and how the game's theme fall over their head just for him.

[Sidereal Wraith]

Just now, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

If Alm's name was changeable he will be by far the most hated main character in the series with how much the game sucks him off and how the game's theme fall over their head just for him.

Oh…oh dear Emperor my sides are on fire. Whatever you say Shrimp-kun, you’ve made my day.

[Armagon]

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ALT!IVY IS LITERALLY THE PRE-RELEASE MEME!

[Codename Shrimp]

5 minutes ago, Sidereal Wraith said:

Oh…oh dear Emperor my sides are on fire. Whatever you say Shrimp-kun, you’ve made my day.

Ok boomer.

Go play the game you claim to hate so much you spend more money than any of us on it Ü 

[Armagon]

Like come on dude, this is the funniest thing.

[Sidereal Wraith]

2 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Ok boomer.

Go play the game you claim to hate so much you spend more money than any of us on it Ü 

Oh goodness, I will shortly I’m just taking a break. I never said it was money well spent Shrimp-kun, I’m just as flawed as the rest of you guys.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Sidereal Wraith

[Codename Shrimp]

8 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Like come on dude, this is the funniest thing.

Lmao this is funny

Flying Bolting tho YIKES

8 minutes ago, Sidereal Wraith said:

Oh goodness, I will shortly I’m just taking a break. I never said it was money well spent Shrimp-kun, I’m just as flawed as the rest of you guys.

Tsunraith

[Sidereal Wraith]

Just now, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Tsunraith

Yes yes Shrimp-kun, throw around your pejoratives all you like, I still think Engage is crap.

[Codename Shrimp]

8 minutes ago, Sidereal Wraith said:

Yes yes Shrimp-kun, throw around your pejoratives all you like, I still think Engage is crap.

And i think every story in the series is trash. All of them fall on their heads and betray their themes.

Except Engage actually. It's the only one to not betray it's own themes

[Acacia Sgt]

You know, I don't remember if it was mentioned in the main game, but apparently the Xenologues do mention Hyacinth had a bunch of other children than the two princesses?

See, I told you Alear and Ivy had quite a bit in common...

[Saint Rubenio]

looooooooooool

This reminds me of the time I went on the wikia article for Meme Man's join chapter in Radiant Dawn, and found an angry rant over the mage reinforcement carrying meteor. It has since been edited to just indicate that there's a guy with meteor that appears as a reinforcement, sadly.

Just now, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

So is every main character, not just in this series, but in any game. We play from their point of view most of the time

I would disagree. In many cases it feels more like you're along for the protagonist's ride than the protagonist themselves. It's a subtle distinction, but it's there.

None of FE's protagonists feel like they're meant to be "me." For an example, let's talk about Leif. Leif is another piece on the board which I move around, like many others. In this regard he's no more special than any other character. He has his own face and he speaks in the story, he has his own set character and development that I cannot influence in any way - again, in no way different from the rest of the cast.

It's quite different from, say, the protagonist of an Elder Scrolls game, who has no name, no appearance, no voice and only the barest baseline of a story role of their own. Everything they do, everything they are depends on my choices throughout the game. Even if I devise a character for them that isn't meant to be me, it's still up to me to roleplay as them and give them that character. That, in my opinion, is a true avatar.

The avatars in FE, by virtue of FE's core design, just can't be that good at their job. Even if I change Kris's appearance, Kris is still a unit on the board that I move. I don't fight as Kris - hell, I don't even have power over whether or not Kris wins the fight. I merely order Kris to attack an enemy based on their likelihood to come out on top, and it's up to Kris (or the RNG if you wanna get technical) to actually succeed. And even if I change Kris's name, they're still a character in the story with their own fixed role and personality. Same goes for Alear, Corrin and Robin.

I'd go as far as to say that an argument could be made that the old advisor guys like August are closer to being avatars than any of FE's avatars! They have their own personality, but they fill the role of tactician thinking up strategies and issuing orders off the field, which is the player's role as well.

I hope that made any sense. I'm as always bad at explaining myself properly.

Just now, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Yet Alm is most avatar like character the series has ever had. Undeserved rewards, everything thrown at his Feet, does nothing wrong, you name it

It kind of feels like you're equating "avatar" to "bad character", which was never how I, at least, meant to use the terms. Assuming all of this about Alm is true (I really don't feel like getting into that right now), it wouldn't be a sign that Alm is "avatar like." That's just a sign that Alm is a bad character lol

An avatar is supposed to represent the player, how good they are at things is irrelevant - in fact, if anything, I'd argue for a character to feel like an avatar, they can't be good or bad at things. It must be up to me and my own actions when playing the game. If Alm is good at everything, I can't relate, because I'm not good at everything lol

3 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Because Mark has no actual character

Mark is the best avatar specifically at being an avatar. The other avatars are worse at it by virtue of having a character to one degree or another. Mark fills my role of being the tactician, can have my name and even my date of birth, and the characters turn to me when speaking to Mark. He's definitely the best at being a character self-insert.

Whether there's any value in this or not in a series like FE is another matter. Personally, for all the reasons I've explained over this post, I don't believe so. Customizable units are fun, but unless they have no role in the story (being silent is not the same thing), they just aren't going to feel like an avatar. To me, at least.

1 minute ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

They are more compelling than Marth, Alm, Celica, Sigurd, Seliph, Leafy boy, Roy, Hector, Lyn, Eliwood, Ephraim, Eirika, Ike, Miccy, Kris, Chrom, Robin, Corirn, Claude, Dimitri, Edelgard and Shez

There, i said it 😛 

Disagree on Leif, but otherwise... Engage has a lot of problems, but Alear isn't one of them.

[Acacia Sgt]

16 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Like come on dude, this is the funniest thing.

I mean, if you say so.

[Codename Shrimp]

6 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

None of FE's protagonists feel like they're meant to be "me." For an example, let's talk about Leif. Leif is another piece on the board which I move around, like many others. In this regard he's no more special than any other character. He has his own face and he speaks in the story, he has his own set character and development that I cannot influence in any way - again, in no way different from the rest of the cast.

And in what way is Alear different?

None

7 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I'd go as far as to say that an argument could be made that the old advisor guys like August are closer to being avatars than any of FE's avatars!

Yes, this i agree with. The Tacticians are more avatar-ish than anything else, as they are close to our role as the player.

But they have their own character and aren't us, but it's the closest

8 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

t kind of feels like you're equating "avatar" to "bad character"

more like to how much the game falls over their head to make that character always clean and feel good, and never wrong - and Alm is the worst case of that in the series.

8 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

An avatar is supposed to represent the player

So none of them

9 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

He's definitely the best at being a character self-insert.

and the most jarring and universe breaking because of it.

[Armagon]

5 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I mean, if you say so.

Remember, i'm laughing at it, not with it.

6 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

looooooooooool

Remember when FE Wiki (the other one) tricked people into thinking one of the Holy Bows from FE4 was from Norse mythology? To the point where it ended up on Symphogear?

[Acacia Sgt]

Just now, Armagon said:

Remember, i'm laughing at it, not with it.

Ah, right.

I can't even give it that courtesy myself, but at least you find that enjoyable.

[Eltosian Kadath]

2 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Not really. Not even close. The game even fails at conveying he did anything wrong.

The game is very explicit about Alm not thinking beyond his battles repeatedly. Both the player, and Alm are repeatedly give clear hints about the truth which Alm very actively ignores because thinking about it would distract him from his bloody purpose. Heck Alm literally has a talk with Clive about knowing that Clive has discovered some dark secret about Alm, and not press him about this vital information, because fighting this war together is more important to him than whatever truth was discovered about himself.

 

3 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

And in what way is Alear different?

43 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Tutorializing UI describes Alear as you, and in both the wakeup events, and the ring giving we are specifically put in the first person perspective of Alear, uniquely having us see the world through Alear's eyes, as opposed to exclusively keeping us as a third person observer that the Fire Emblem games without Avatar characters tends to. In fact first person perspectives are noticeably prominent with every avatar, Mark awakening in Lyn's hut, Kris looking into Marth's eyes at New Mystery's end (the CG specifically called Marth thanks My Unit), Robin being mind controlled to kill Chrom and awakening to his open hand, Corrin in numerous awkward cutscenes and spousal events, Byleth's Tea time and proposal. Echoes may seem to do something similar if you only look at the top screen, as the bottom screen is repeated used to give us an outside view of the dual main characters. Additionally while the designable traits unique to Alear are minor (just name and gender), they are about the same as Mark (who only adds a birth month to that), a character who has been uncontested as an Avatar for a long time. Don't get me wrong, Alear might be the best written Avatar, his clear discomfort with being worship is very relatable, but he has the trapping of how Fire Emblem handles its player Avatars.

 

[Armagon]

Aight nah, i'm gonna have to turn it down to normal. Xenolouge 4 was good until bullshit Flying Corrupted Wyrms.