Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Lightcosmo]

3 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Engage translation

Is it similar to Fates in that aspect?

[Codename Shrimp]

1 hour ago, Lightcosmo said:

Is it similar to Fates in that aspect?

Well, there's nothing like Fates "....", but some characters were changed quite a bit (Goldmary and Louis being the prime example). Alot of supports were sanitized or sometimes even compeletely changed (I remember the Louis/Rosado had me going completely "wtf?"), etc.

Main Story is fine afaik tho

Edited January 3 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition-

[Lightcosmo]

Just now, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Well, there's nothing like Fates "....", but some characters were changed quite a bit (Goldmary and Louis being the prime example). Alot of supports were sanitized or sometimes even compeletely changed (I remember the Louis/Rosado had me going completely "wtf?"), etc.

Main Story is fine afaik tho

Does that mean they ruined characters or improved them? XD

[Interdimensional Observer]

7 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

So, there I am, looking at the heights of the Engage characters for writing research purposes, when suddenly...

> Yunaka 164cm and Chloé 167cm according to Japanese version

> Yunaka and Chloé both 5'5'' according to English version

I mean, if you round up for the first one, down for the second (despite it also having a decimal >=5), then they're the same.

Another reason why the US needs to switch to metric.

 

5 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Kpop

Not that Japan doesn't have it's male idol groups, but it's more female focused, while Korea is more male focused

It's just as bad there, if not even worse. Just reverse the gender of the idols and the fans

Wasn't aware of the bolded. Yikes.

5 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

And western fans are starting to learn from it 😭

Actually, as I mentioned in unrelated matters before, Hollywood kinda began this way, in a way. Historically in Western (and probably Eurasian as a whole to some extent, given kabuki became grown-men-actors-only because the early kabuki actresses and young boys got prostituted) culture, acting has been associated with sex work on the side.

In the 1920s and 30s, during that era when movies skyrocketed from nothing to 100% American grandeur, there were strict morality rules put in place. Some on the content of movies- the Hays Code that Arma has mentioned before. But, these industry self-imposed regulations also applied to the personal behavior of actors and actresses, nasty rumors about one's private life could be serious grounds for firing by themselves. I saw one TV mini-documentary thing that mentioned how one actress got a secret abortion for a premarital pregnancy and the actress almost died -but she felt like she had to do it to avoid having her career come to an end.

 

1 hour ago, Saint Rubenio said:

if you can endure the crushing exercise in boredom that is this mechanic.

It is different. Usually the arena, in the old games that have it, is either something you entirely ignore, or abuse like crazy. Doing just a few matches here or there doesn't sound common.

The arena's differences in Genealogy make it so much better than the usual version. -Yet it becomes something too good, too centralizing, since it results in every chapter beginning with making the rounds there.

[Codename Shrimp]

1 minute ago, Lightcosmo said:

Does that mean they ruined characters or improved them? XD

Depends on who you ask

Louis is less creepy in english for one

Goldmary...is quite different and if you ask me more on the "ruin" side

I don't think it's the translators/localizers job to change the writing, but saying that is a can of worms on it's own 😛

[Lightcosmo]

1 minute ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Depends on who you ask

Louis is less creepy in english for one

Goldmary...is quite different and if you ask me more on the "ruin" side

I don't think it's the translators/localizers job to change the writing, but saying that is a can of worms on it's own 😛

It's always interesting to learn the differences between JP and EN! From experience, most changes -seem- to be on the "bad" side, so that sounds like a plus that some characters might have improved in EN. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

I don't think it's the translators/localizers job to change the writing, but saying that is a can of worms on it's own 😛

At least we could have a civil conversation on the matter right here.😀 Unlike sooooooooooooo much of the Internet.😒 I hope.

[Codename Shrimp]

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Wasn't aware of the bolded. Yikes

Korea has the same problems japan has...at an even worse scale.

Wether it's overworking, treatment of certain groups, birth problem, etc.

But they hide it much better, or we know more about Japan because a big chunk of our generation got in touch with their culture - and that includes the negatives.

6 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

there were strict morality rules put in place.

...

Morality, there to ruin everything

6 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

nasty rumors about one's private life could be serious grounds for firing by themselves

Nowadays we have the twitter court for that!

Man

How i wish celebrity worship, whether the western or eastern kind, wasn't a thing, and to seperate their career from their personal lives.

Why do i care who they fuck or whatever aslong as they aren't an ass or a criminal. Infact i would want them to be happy so they can deliver better performances!

6 minutes ago, Lightcosmo said:

s always interesting to learn the differences between JP and EN! From experience, most changes -seem- to be on the "bad" side, so that sounds like a plus that some characters might have improved in EN. 

Even then, i would still say most of them are on the bad side in Engage

[Lightcosmo]

1 minute ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Even then, i would still say most of them are on the bad side in Engage

Well, I spoke too soon, it seems. XD

Could always be worse... it could be like EN Reverie. lmao

[Lightcosmo]

I don't really care that Reverie's story is crap, and I don't care that the gameplay is utter vomit, but you don't write a character with very noble and refined way of speech in previous entries and then suddenly have them say the line "oh, poo." It just sounds so damn cringe. XD

[Saint Rubenio]

33 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

It is different. Usually the arena, in the old games that have it, is either something you entirely ignore, or abuse like crazy. Doing just a few matches here or there doesn't sound common.

The arena's differences in Genealogy make it so much better than the usual version. -Yet it becomes something too good, too centralizing, since it results in every chapter beginning with making the rounds there.

Personally, I disagree. I'm not going to say that the arena in other FEs is a perfect mechanic, but at least it requires some thought. You have to weigh how much you value the unit being risked and how difficult the battle could be based on the wager. You are rewarded for taking the immense risk of permanently losing a unit with experience and money, the two main currencies in the game, so there's a definite "high risk, high reward" element to it. Of course, even that risk can be mitigated if you keep alert during the fight and back out if things threaten to go awry - even after accepting the challenge, the player is involved and isn't just watching the battle happen.

In FE4? It's as brainless a mechanic as it gets, because it removes the "high risk" part of the equation entirely. It's just high reward, full stop. You don't have to think about your weapon choices or the enemy's strength, because if you lose you just try again. You don't have to ponder if the rewards compensate for the loss of money in weapon repairs, because you can just fight with a broken weapon until you win. You don't even have to watch the fight unfold, because what is there for you to do during it? Just press A again to re-enter the arena when it's over.

The FE4 arena might as well be a menu option that says "goodies" and gives you money and experience when you press it. In fact, I'd argue that'd be better, because at least then the game wouldn't waste an hour of your life doing a bunch of arena rounds that are impossible to lose. And you have to do it, at least to some extent, due to how money works in FE4. It's baffling to me how utterly horrible the mechanic is in FE4.

(None of this addresses the "arena abuse" part, but frankly, I don't think one should blame the game for people cheating the arena with save states. Using save states with the regular FE arena removes the "high risk" part of the equation and turns the mechanic into a mindless romp where you press A a bunch of times to get rewards in exchange for wasting some of your real time-- Oh wait, holy shit the FE4 arena is just that lol)

Edited January 3 by Saint Rubenio

[Lightcosmo]

4 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Personally, I disagree. I'm not going to say that the arena in other FEs is a perfect mechanic, but at least it requires some thought. You have to weigh how much you value the unit being risked and how difficult the battle could be based on the wager. You are rewarded for taking the immense risk of permanently losing a unit with experience and money, the two main currencies in the game, so there's a definite "high risk, high reward" element to it. Of course, even that risk can be mitigated if you keep alert during the fight and back out if things threaten to go awry - even after accepting the challenge, the player is involved and isn't just watching the battle happen.

As far as GBA arena is concerned, i'm fairly convinced that with low enough DEF, the game has to generate absurdly weak units for you to win, so it's basically a free pass regardless. XD Whereas units with high DEF constantly face enemies with Silver weapons.

Edited January 3 by Lightcosmo

[Lightcosmo]

So basically it punishes units such as Knights moreso than the games already do at base! XD

[Codename Shrimp]

26 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

At least we could have a civil conversation on the matter right here.😀 Unlike sooooooooooooo much of the Internet.😒 I hope.

Not so sure of yourself, are you? 😛

5 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

arena

I will say

Removing the arena has been one of FEs best decisions

Edited January 3 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition-

[Lightcosmo]

2 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

I will say

Removing the arena has been one of FEs best decisions

Agreed!

[Interdimensional Observer]

A glitch, but not a bad one.

-Was reminded of this b/c of my avi swap.

 

Just now, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Not so sure of yourself, are you? 😛

I would like to optimistically think that this -one of the most forsaken yet splendiferous corners of the Interwebs😄- could actually discuss the often-contentious T&L issue, without getting so heated so quickly that all the oxygen in the surrounding air spontaneously combusts. Are we not of such camaraderie towards one another that the oft-desired yet rarely-had ideal of civil conversation would be possible?

Maybe? -Or, maybe not, b/c alas we're only human.🙂 Though for sure we could try. -Though I am NOT asking for such a conversation right now, just to make that clear.😃

 

6 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Personally, I disagree.

Okay, okay, maybe I just like all the extra & safe combat EXP.😅 (Would Genealogy be a bit starved for it without the arena?)

[Acacia Sgt]

Well, back to work in an hour or so.

Once again to be back to finding the worse aspect of it to be that there's not enough work for the time I have to be there...

[Codename Shrimp]

20 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

A glitch, but not a bad one.

Is that OG Hyrule Warriors?

21 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

re we not of such camaraderie towards one another that the oft-desired yet rarely-had ideal of civil conversation would be possible?

I hope so!

[Lightcosmo]

31 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

A glitch, but not a bad one.

 

Zelda with Lana's animations!

[Acacia Sgt]

Oh, that was the glitch?

[Interdimensional Observer]

10 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Is that OG Hyrule Warriors?

Yep.

I said this is a glitch, because the Summoning Gate isn't one of Zelda's weapons. It belongs to the HW OC Lana. However, a glitch in the Wii U original version of the game allows some weapons to be used by characters other than their proper owners.

In this case, not only does the moveset work perfectly fine for Princess Zelda, she actually hums her Lullaby while using it. Lana doesn't do that when using the Summoning Gate, and Zelda doesn't do it with any of her actual weapons either. Which is really odd and suggests perhaps that at some point weapon-swapping among the cast was going to be a thing (perhaps ditched because of how character-specific a lot of the movesets get).

But, the glitch is better than the original b/c seeing the formal princess Zelda wave her hands/arms like "C'mon baby, make it rain!" and then strike a "V!" pose is funny.😄

(My current avi as an aside is the HW villain OC Volga. It's going to be the Year of the Dragon, so, after much indecision, I decided on the dragon knight (as in "dragon, in Manakete human form") of Hyrule Warriors.)

[Codename Shrimp]

34 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

But, the glitch is better than the original b/c seeing the formal princess Zelda wave her hands/arms like "C'mon baby, make it rain!" and then strike a "V!" pose is funny.😄

+1

 

34 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

It's going to be the Year of the Dragon

Mb i should switch to a dragon theme'd profile

>Alear already pfp

or maybe that's enough xD

[BrightBow]

37 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

In this case, not only does the moveset work perfectly fine for Princess Zelda, she actually hums her Lullaby while using it. Lana doesn't do that when using the Summoning Gate, and Zelda doesn't do it with any of her actual weapons either. Which is really odd and suggests perhaps that at some point weapon-swapping among the cast was going to be a thing (perhaps ditched because of how character-specific a lot of the movesets get).

All weapons work perfectly fine for any character you can trick it on. With the exception of the Great Fairy. That one just results in moving the bottle across the ground and being frozen in place when you try to perform any action other than moving.

And obviously the voice clip does not sync properly with the moveset at all. It's way too long.

Given the length, chances are the audio was recorded for some other purpose. Like a taunt or a victory sequence maybe. And the placement of the clip just so happens to match with one of the clips Lana uses for this moveset.

Funnily enough why Koei would sadly fix this glitch, they would reference it in later DLCs where enemy officers would use the movesets of other characters. Like Impa using Link's Sword & Shield moveset and whatnot.

Well, the glitch was helpful while it lasted. Considering the Summoning Gale is an awful weapon, it made things a lot easier to trick the Master Sword onto Lana in order to clear the lv3 Summoning Gale tile. Since those tiles always lock you into using the weapon in question.
If only this could have been done with Agitha, but sadly this glitch only works for characters with at least 2 available weapon.

[Saint Rubenio]

1 hour ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

I will say

Removing the arena has been one of FEs best decisions

I won't disagree with this. Non FE4-arena beats FE4 arena but it's a difficult thing to balance and without turtling disincentives / hard time limits, it's easier to abuse than it should be, even without save states.

1 hour ago, Lightcosmo said:

As far as GBA arena is concerned, i'm fairly convinced that with low enough DEF, the game has to generate absurdly weak units for you to win, so it's basically a free pass regardless. XD Whereas units with high DEF constantly face enemies with Silver weapons.

And of course, there's this nonsense you bring up. Imagine thinking armor knights are so good that you need to specifically target them with nerfs. Goodness, IntSys.

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

2 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

I don't think it's the translators/localizers job to change the writing, but saying that is a can of worms on it's own 😛

At least we could have a civil conversation on the matter right here.😀 Unlike sooooooooooooo much of the Internet.😒 I hope.

I'll bite. Pretty sure everyone can infer where I stand in this, but let me try to explain my thoughts in full detail.

My take on the matter is... It's a fickle thing and it really depends on each case. For instance, there's the actual mistakes, like in FE7 where the super duper secret death quote of the main villain is mistranslated and loses its meaning entirely, rendering the entire sequence of obscure requirements needed to get it completely pointless. That's pretty bad.

But then there's the more... intentional, shall we say, changes. With those I find that... I don't really mind most of the time? I guess it'd be better if the localizations were always faithful, but at the same time, I can only say that half-heartedly because while, in spirit, I want to agree, I find that a lot of the time I tend to like the changes localizations make better.

Aside from the obvious "Shadow Dragon" response, one specific example I like is in a certain chapter of Live a Live. This made a few people really angry:

So. On the one hand, we have a cliché, dumb, out of character line for the character of the Shifu to say. He's like a hundred years old and lives in complete solitude for and by his martial arts. He only sets out because he's dying and he wants to pass on his skills, and he recruits each of the three disciples for their untapped martial potential and no other reason. There is absolutely nothing that indicates this character has any interest in the hotness of people, and he certainly doesn't praise the other two (male) disciples for their looks. The line is just there because of, dare I say such heavy words, deeply ingrained sexism and nothing more.

On the other hand, we have the localized line, where he instead criticizes her for being overly prideful. That is the core of her character - she is a rude, arrogant asshat at first, which leads her to foolishly attack the Shifu, thinking him a feeble old man far beneath her, and get her ass handed to her. As the chapter goes, she grows to accept there is nothing wrong with allowing herself to learn from others. That's her little arc. The localized line fits the themes and the personalities of the characters so much better, on top of just plain being a really cool line, with a little bit of build-up and all - but that's subjective, I suppose.

And at that point... Yeah, it's not a good translation. But, it's a better script, at least in my opinion. Almost feels like the localizers had a better grasp on the character and the tone of the story than the original Japanese writers. Which is fine! It's easier to spot things like this when you're reading over the finished product than when you're actively writing it.

What I'm getting at is, I just don't feel particularly motivated to condemn this. If the translation had been faithful I would've liked it less.

 

Also, I find that oftentimes people make a mountain out of a mole with these things.

Like seriously, these images are in an article called "Triangle Strategy English Localization Adds, Removes, and Dramatically Alters Some Original Japanese Dialogue."

They call this "dramatic"? Seriously? The localization just reworded sentences to make them prettier, or added a bit of fluff to spice up the dialogue. The information conveyed by these sentences is exactly the same, even if they convey it in somewhat different ways. Admittedly, very different ways in the case of the coin scene, but see, even if the words are completely different, the message remains the same, it's just not conveyed nearly as clunkily and bluntly.

If """"""changes"""""" this menial are too much, then I don't think a translation that's up to quality standards is achievable at all.

 

All that aside, I will say, there is stuff in both these games I've brought up that was certainly more suspect. Like this, for instance:

Or this

Yeah, that's silly, I won't lie. But... It's just not that big of a deal? At the end of the day, it's a couple of lines in a whole game full to the brim with text. When the package as a whole ends up being to my liking, I can't really psych myself up to champion the cause of faithfulness because a few lines are weird. It just doesn't affect me or my experience that much.

 

So uh, yeah, tl;dr: Yeah, sometimes it's silly. It's just not enough of a big deal for me to really feel like criticizing it, especially when these changes are just as often, if not more, to my liking than they are not. It may not be the original experience, strictly speaking, but it's a better one. Kinda hard to tell myself to be angry about getting something better lol

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Okay, okay, maybe I just like all the extra & safe combat EXP.😅 (Would Genealogy be a bit starved for it without the arena?)

Hehehehe, fair enough.

Edited January 3 by Saint Rubenio

[Codename Shrimp]

11 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

They call this "dramatic"? Seriously? The localization just reworded sentences to make them prettier, or added a bit of fluff to spice up the dialogue. The information conveyed by these sentences is exactly the same, even if they convey it in somewhat different ways. Admittedly, very different ways in the case of the coin scene, but see, even if the words are completely different, the message remains the same, it's just not conveyed nearly as clunkily and bluntly.

I am gonna disagree here. The information delivered is the same, but the characterization and intent is *waaaaaaaaay* different

The rain one is especially cringe.

And not every localization even keeps the information conveyed the same.

12 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Yeah, that's silly, I won't lie. But... It's just not that big of a deal?

Depends on situation, and since i didn't play i can't say, but if the context & characterization is changed, i don't think it's good, even if "it flows better". It's not the translators the job to do so, at the end of the day.

And not everyone is gonna agree it is for the better, obvs, or that it even flows better.

 

But i know we stand on different sides on this matter, so eh