BrightBow Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 This reminds me of the "General Ike, leader of the Greil Mercenaries, hero of Crimea and father of Sothe's children" line. That one was likely the result of a misinterpretation. That Micaiah was listing Ike's marks of fame to express her annoyance with Sothe bringing him up yet again, seeing how she was sassing at him when he brought up Ike at the start of the chapter. But it seems like the intend was for her to come across as being introspective. But mistake or not, the result is a really good line. Though while I think Micaiah would totally say something like that in theory, I don't think she would allow herself to be this unrestrained if anyone besides Sothe is around, due to her fear of outsiders. But like, it's a super minor complaint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Rubenio Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: The rain one is especially cringe. Perhaps, but it's a superfluous line from a generic villager in a scene that isn't even in plot-relevant. It really doesn't matter much, in the grand scheme of things, that they had a bit of fun with it. Plus, it harkens back to point 1 - I just can't bring myself to be upset about it because to me it's just, well, better. When I first saw this line I giggled like an idiot, and every time I saw it afterwards it made me smile. The original line is completely dry and I would've forgotten it immediately after reading it. My experience was actively improved by the cringe. 13 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: And not every localization even keeps the information conveyed the same. True enough. I made an attempt at acknowledging that later. 13 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Depends on situation, and since i didn't play i can't say, but if the context & characterization is changed, i don't think it's good, even if "it flows better". It's not the translators the job to do so, at the end of the day. Indeed. What I was trying to say in point 3 is not "it doesn't matter at all", it's "it doesn't matter enough to me." The two examples I mentioned are pretty dumb, yes. But it's just not dumb enough for me to bring myself to care much, I'm afraid. It's not like the Nergal thing from FE7 where the catalyst to Nergal's backstory is fucked up. I'd say the first example is the worst of the two - You don't get Gustadolph briefly commending his Rosellan mother-in-law, which is a shame because it's a pretty neat moment that ties in well with his subdued respect for Frederica compared to his hellspawn siblings. But, well... it's just a little moment. I wish it wasn't so, but well, nothing's perfect. When most of the game is fine by me, I can look past things like this, as I can look past a flawed mechanic or a bad stage in a game I otherwise thoroughly enjoyed. 13 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: not everyone is gonna agree it is for the better, obvs, or that it even flows better. That's true. This is just my opinion, of course. I'm not going to say mine is the correct perspective, it is just that, my perspective. I can totally understand why others would be more opposed to this kind of thing. 5 minutes ago, BrightBow said: mistake or not, the result is a really good line. That's another good example. Again, like I said before - I can't muster much anger at getting a better version. Not that that applies to RD in general, of course. We've been over that mess. But in this line's specific case? Yeah, good, no complaints. Edited January 3 by Saint Rubenio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 I mean, if every faulty tl gave a line like Micaiah's, there would be less complaining, i bet 😛 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Rubenio Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: I mean, if every faulty tl gave a line like Micaiah's, there would be less complaining, i bet 😛 Which is funny because in RD's case I'd say we were worse off, overall. The loss of the extended script was very bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 45 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said: My take on the matter is... It's a fickle thing and it really depends on each case. Now, now Ruben, this is totally unacceptable! You must have a general philosophy of T&L that isn't "it varies depending on the instance". You'll be accused of waffling and someone will throw an inquisitive list of circumstances at you of such number and with such fury it'll feel like you're being stung by an entire colony of hornets.🐝 -Sayeth a fellow fellow who is inclined to agree with your above statement.😀 How about we just appreciate the miracle of communication in itself?😃 That being- that anyone of us has any idea what the others are saying. Given the human mind seems sooo capable of looking at the same information and processing it oh so differently.😏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Rubenio Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: Now, now Ruben, this is totally unacceptable! You must have a general philosophy of T&L that isn't "it varies depending on the instance". You'll be accused of waffling and someone will throw an inquisitive list of circumstances at you of such number and with such fury it'll feel like you're being stung by an entire colony of hornets.🐝 5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: How about we just appreciate the miracle of communication in itself?😃 That being- that anyone of us has any idea what the others are saying. Given the human mind seems sooo capable of looking at the same information and processing it oh so differently.😏 The human mind truly is limitless. And the hand is its extension. HUNDRED HA-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) Just got mail from amazon that prime will have ads Ffs Thing us, free fast deliveries is still worth it... 21 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said: Which is funny because in RD's case I'd say we were worse off, overall. The loss of the extended script was very bad. "Gotta simplify it for western audiences" That said, atleast we didn't get warp powder malfunction or some bs Blood pact would be the least of our worries 14 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: How about we just appreciate the miracle of communication in itself?😃 That being- that anyone of us has any idea what the others are saying 100146783678282782245832455Error404StoneAge Edited January 3 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Rubenio Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: "Gotta simplify it for western audiences" That said, atleast we didn't warp powder malfunction or some bs Blood pact would be the least of our worries Honestly, warp powder or no, the best thing the BK could've done for RD was stay fucking dead lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 7 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: "Gotta simplify it for western audiences" NoA would have been working with what IS gave them. IS banishing the proper script into Maniac Mode already ensured few people would ever see it. Someone probably had to fight tooth and nail to ensure it was included at all. It's obvious that IS simply didn't care about that version. Even more so considering how dry and barebone all their scripts have been since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 8 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: 100146783678282782245832455Error404StoneAge I completely agree! The judgement made against the builders of the Tower of Babel didn't render us incapable of understanding each other, it merely increased the degree to which this was the case. -But you could please stop laughing like a maniac at the Prophet Mohammad's claim that God invented tribes so that we could better understand each other? Mortal-to-mortal communication is bad enough, divine-to-mortal should be something even the Almighty struggles with. Good points, OrcaPlebian.🤪 ...Now if you excuse me, with RF5 in its post-story, I feel like I can play that when I'm not 100% attentive I hope. I'll get back to Berwick tomorrow. Right now, while the Sun is still up for me, I feel like bumping a third game into current lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Interesting things are happening in the Engage manga. The assault on Brodia ends differently, it ends with Ivy getting captured. We also get a flashback scene, including a (faceless) look at Ivy's mother, young Ivy and Hortensia and a young Hyacinth before he turned evil. The chapter itself end with Ivy being put on trial, seemingly at Alear's request (because the translations aren't out yet so i'm just going off visuals). Seems Morion just wanted to end her then and there but Alear and Diamant convince him not to. Morion says "alright but you gotta convince the senate too" according to people who read Japanese. Ace Attorney. Also Lumera is there so things are really interesting (she didn't outright die in the start like in the game rememeber). It's a shame this thing is monthly cause i'd be keeping up with it otherwise. Really makes me wonder how they'll handle the Elusia stuff now. Does Hyacinth still lead an attack to kidnap Morion. Does Ivy spill the beans and this is what causes a Boridan assault on Elusia but one that still ends with Morion and Hyacinth getting eaten? All of this was Kaga's secret ploy to have Ivy get bound in ropes. It's an interesting turn of events but i do hope Ivy isn't just left to the mercy of the men and actually gets to do something here, even if Alear and Diamant serve as her defense judges. Would actually get a bit disappointed if she actually is damseld in the rewrite that has largely improved things from the base story. 5 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said: Its usually better to think of seizing a castle as the rough equivalent of a chapter in other Fire Emblem games. 5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said: As well you should. It is foolish to treat this game's chapters like regular FE chapters. I'd say it'd be more appropriate to treat each castle conquest as one regular FE chapter. This is why i think it doesn't ruin the game as much if they actually just split up the chapters in a remake. The big maps are mostly an illusion because you still have to take the castles in a set order. Even if you can simultaneously work towards the next objective, you'll eventually get blocked by yellow indestructible units. 4 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Korea has the same problems japan has...at an even worse scale. Korean actor recently killed himself because they thought he was doing drugs. I don't get what it is with East Asian societies and how doing drugs there is somehow worse than murder. 1 hour ago, Saint Rubenio said: And at that point... Yeah, it's not a good translation. But, it's a better script, at least in my opinion. Almost feels like the localizers had a better grasp on the character and the tone of the story than the original Japanese writers. Which is fine! It's easier to spot things like this when you're reading over the finished product than when you're actively writing it. Also but localizations are usually signed off by the original creatives themselves, good or bad. So that narrative that localizers are evil workers who insert their own agendas is hilariously false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Rubenio Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Armagon said: The chapter itself end with Ivy being put on trial, seemingly at Alear's request (because the translations aren't out yet so i'm just going off visuals). Seems Morion just wanted to end her then and there but Alear and Diamant convince him not to. Morion says "alright but you gotta convince the senate too" according to people who read Japanese. ...Brodia has a senate? Wait, wait, it has a government body? It has a system? I mean, it sounds like I'm being a dick but it really is sad that the first question was my first reaction to this. Engage worldbuilding sucked balls... 6 minutes ago, Armagon said: Also Lumera is there so things are really interesting They're giving Lumera a role in the story? Insane. 6 minutes ago, Armagon said: It's an interesting turn of events but i do hope Ivy isn't just left to the mercy of the men and actually gets to do something here, even if Alear and Diamant serve as her defense judges. Would actually get a bit disappointed if she actually is damseld in the rewrite that has largely improved things from the base story. That's the risk but already this is leaps and bounds better than the crap we got in the game. 6 minutes ago, Armagon said: Also but localizations are usually signed off by the original creatives themselves, good or bad. So that narrative that localizers are evil workers who insert their own agendas is hilariously false. I didn't mention it in my write-up because I couldn't find a good place to put it, but yeah. Edited January 3 by Saint Rubenio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, Saint Rubenio said: Honestly, warp powder or no, the best thing the BK could've done for RD was stay fucking dead lol Yes Why was he alive again 13 minutes ago, Armagon said: Also but localizations are usually signed off by the original creatives themselves, good or bad. So that narrative that localizers are evil workers who insert their own agendas is hilariously false. Not really There's this recent case It's a bl manga, where a crossdresser got turned trans in the localization without OG approval, and only when readers complained to the jp side was the localizer forced to change it back. The translator blamed the fans on shit they pulled. There's also another thing on right now where jp side want to use Ai human hybrid for translation and it's kinda blowing up, because alot of localizers are corrupt af, and yes, actually evil. And it's not just a single incident. And many of them like to hyperbole when confronted with criticism and respond will bullshit. Edited January 3 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidereal Wraith Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 5 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said: I mean, it sounds like I'm being a dick but it really is sad that the first question was my first reaction to this. Engage worldbuilding sucked balls... Engage had worldbuilding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 6 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said: ...Brodia has a senate? Wait, wait, it has a government body? It has a system? I mean, it sounds like I'm being a dick but it really is sad that the first question was my first reaction to this. Engage worldbuilding sucked balls... We did sorta hear about in the main game. Not much but i think it's mentioned in like Diamant's ending and some supports. At the very least, Yunaka/Citrinne is about the latter being suspicious of the former because she was asking about info on Brodian nobles for some upcoming assembly. The manga so far takes things that were mostly in Engage already but actually expands upon them. Like we know Lythos is essentially a city state but we didn't see anyone else from there even though they presumably exist. The manga showed us that. It's literally the modern day Oosawa FE4 manga adaptation. Takes the story that was generally told and not shown and shows it. 7 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Not really I said usually. As a counter example, people complained about the removal of the boob slider in Xenoblade X but Takahashi himself was fine with it's cutting. 8 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: There's also anothet thing on right now where jp side want to use Ai human hybrid for translation and it's kinda blowing up, because alot of localizers are corrupt af, and yes, actually evil. And it's not just a single incident. Japan isn't as against AI as the west is (see: Square Enix claiming they'll be even more aggressive with it this year). I think i've seen more Japanese AI "artists" than western ones. To the point where Pixiv had to set a toggle to hide AI works (and even then some still slip by). I'd rather take "corrupt" localizers over AI. I at least know there was a human behind the former. Not writing but Midjourney devs got exposed for outright bragging that they were actually stealing from artists and they even said "yeah bro we'll delete the evidence later" while the company is being investigated lmao. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Rubenio Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 6 minutes ago, Armagon said: We did sorta hear about in the main game. Not much but i think it's mentioned in like Diamant's ending and some supports. At the very least, Yunaka/Citrinne is about the latter being suspicious of the former because she was asking about info on Brodian nobles for some upcoming assembly. The manga so far takes things that were mostly in Engage already but actually expands upon them. Like we know Lythos is essentially a city state but we didn't see anyone else from there even though they presumably exist. The manga showed us that. It's literally the modern day Oosawa FE4 manga adaptation. Takes the story that was generally told and not shown and shows it. Well, I can only hope they'll handle it with grace and not get a Kaga moment out of Ivy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Armagon said: I'd rather take "corrupt" localizers over AI. I at least know there was a human behind the former. Dunno. Not that i am a fan of AI, but i would take it over someone who's intentionally bad at their job... I'd rather have a human who does it right tho. AI is really dry, and really noticeable... Even if i am no stranger to edited MTL, and how bad it usually is Edited January 3 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 5 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said: Well, I can only hope they'll handle it with grace and not get a Kaga moment out of Ivy. At the very least, I think it's a smoother way of getting Ivy to join Alear. In the game, you beat her, you let her go, and then she comes back to help you when you're escaping The Funny....... actually now I'm really curious as to how The Funny will play out. 3 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Dunno. Not that i am a fan of AI, but i would take it over someone who's intentionally bad at their job... Someone who is bad at their job unironically will still make less errors than AI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Armagon said: actually now I'm really curious as to how The Funny will play out. Lumera 2 minutes ago, Armagon said: Someone who is bad at their job unironically will still make less errors than AI. I work with AI and can defo say that's not the case...if you know what you are doing AI isn't a boogeyman for everything bad Edited January 3 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Hyacinth before Hyacinth after Guys I think he's dead. 4 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: work with AI and can defo say that's not the case...if you know what you are doing It's useful for like sorting through info and maybe as a template but the actual creative process still needs to be human. Doesn't help that AI steals a lot of things to "learn". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 minutes ago, Armagon said: the actual creative process still needs to be human. Definitely But translation comes after the creative process 4 minutes ago, Armagon said: Doesn't help that AI steals a lot of things to "learn". And that's a problem A big one. And why AI should not be part of creative process It should help us with manial tasks instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: But translation comes after the creative process There's still an art to it. The whole point of a localization is to make things smooth for a different region. An obscure Japanese saying that only makes sense if you read it in kanji isn't gonna work if you just translate it 1:1. You have to replace it with something similar that conveys the same thing but in a way the international reader understands. And, well, I will always fall back on the biggest example: Transformers. I do not think Transformers would've popped off nearly as much as it had in the west if Hasbro didn't change things. Optimus Prime is a raw name, Convoy is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Armagon said: The whole point of a localization is to make things smooth for a different region. An obscure Japanese saying that only makes sense if you read it in kanji isn't gonna work if you just translate it 1:1. You have to replace it with something similar that conveys the same thing but in a way the international reader understands. Yes But that's not what most people complain about Most complaints happen when the meaning or characterization change. That's not a "localization" anymore. Edited January 3 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Rubenio Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 13 minutes ago, Armagon said: Hyacinth before Hyacinth after Guys I think he's dead. They made him look even more ridiculous than his death cutscene. Nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 He looks like a frenchie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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