Cavalry Need Help - Agree or Disagree?

[XRay]

10 hours ago, Anacybele said:

An infantry or flier unit with similar stat distribution to a cavalry unit will still have better stats and usage for many game modes. And what if someone does want to be competitive in arena? As someone that finds armors unfun to use, I don't want to be forced to use them if I want a crown or something. BST should've never been a factor in arena to begin with, but now we're stuck with it because of the duel skills. You remove the BST factor, those skills are completely useless.

Also, there's the matter of bonus units for arena. Not all of them will be armors. Sometimes there will be none. Sometimes some will be low-scoring cavalry. You can't always use an armor as a bonus unit and you need a bonus unit for scoring.

Higher BST is not always a good thing, and it has been particularly detrimental for player phase units when those extra stats are allocated improperly, especially when it gets added to HP. Raven is better than the vast majority of the latest axe infantry because his low BST allows him to have extremely low bulk while still matching their offensive stat spread, which makes him a lot more consistent for Wings of Mercy.

For players who want to be competitive in Arena, you can still use cavalry in the form of UOT!Leif, BK!Eliwood, and SOL!Seliph, and Bless cavalry teammates for those Legendary Heroes' seasons to offset the lower BST. You have to run multiple cavalry Arena teams to pull it off and spend more resources, but spending more resources is the price all players pay no matter the game mode if they prioritize favoritism.

You can still be competitive in Arena with the Askr Trio.

10 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Except I most often see him in AR where I wouldn't use those unit types since mixed tanks are best for AR offense. At least for me.

The vast majority of Aether Raids players have multiple teams to handle different types of threats. Supertanking is not the only option and players have 5 team slots available to build a variety of offense eams to counter a variety of defense teams. Player phase teams are also the cheapest and easiest to build for and they hard counter stall teams, so there is no excuse to not have and use a player phase team when encountering a stall team.

10 hours ago, Anacybele said:

And I was moreso talking about when he first came out. He was ridiculous then.

8 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

That is easier to say these days where there are approximately one million skills that invalid Wary Fighter. He was enough of a pain back around his release that they removed him from the PvE unit pool shortly afterwards.

Now if you want true cancer, try Hel with Mystic Boost when you have no mages or carelessly got the only mage you had killed like I did. I’m actually appalled that that combination is allowed to be a thing.

Surtr was still crap back then. Blade mages have been around since day 1, and Firesweepers have been introduced a few months after the game launched. Players had every tool available to them to deal with him effectively.

 

9 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Surtr is still the best Arena babysitter in the game. Sinmara is still busted as a support skill, and he's still a massive stat stick.

He might be fine on offense, but he is pretty shit on Arena defense like most armor units.

[Tybrosion]

30 minutes ago, XRay said:

Surtr was still crap back then. Blade mages have been around since day 1, and Firesweepers have been introduced a few months after the game launched. Players had every tool available to them to deal with him effectively.

Perhaps in your opinion, but (again) the fact remains that he was meddlesome enough to most for IS to remove him as a random PvE spawn (something that was only previously done to dancers and the CYL1 units).

Though in hindsight, it is pretty funny in a sad way that Surtr got axed as a PvE spawn yet IS sees no problem in letting [insert at least half of the Heroes released from 2019 to present here] run free in PvE. Oh and speaking of that, I hope everyone is prepared to starting dealing with the Krises (and Julian to a lesser extent) in PvE starting on the 20th.

Edited August 15, 2020 by Tybrosion

[Hilda]

4 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

Perhaps in your opinion, but (again) the fact remains that he was meddlesome enough to most for IS to remove him as a random PvE spawn (something that was only previously done to dancers and the CYL1 units).

Though in hindsight, it is pretty funny in a sad way that Surtr got axed as a PvE spawn yet IS sees no problem in letting [insert at least half of the Heroes released from 2019 to present here] run free in PvE. Oh and speaking of that, I hope everyone is prepared to starting dealing with the Krises (and Julian to a lesser extent) in PvE starting on the 20th.

Thats because Surtrs entire kit outmaneuvers/or cripples the AI playing. They removed him from PvE so people could use Auto-Battle without a dedicated Surtr tank.

Thats also the reason why people started to build dedicated Surtr tanks on AR Defense until L!Alm came along and NFU became a thing. Prior to this you could just park Surtr in AR and watch the AI Defense Team basicly just die to his AoE damage unless you had a dedicated hard Surtr counter built into your AR Defense Team.

[Roflolxp54]

I personally don't think cavalry units need much help.

Reinhardt is still a very good unit and Eliwood's only gotten better. Ares is also pretty good, too. And let's not forget Brave Lyn and Claude. Cecilia's only gotten more value as a unit thanks to all these crazy Water Legendary units that have been popping up.

Leif is one of the more annoying units in Arena. And let's face it: Arena is a very different game, pretty much far removed from the rest of the game.

Lull skills are powerful, especially with somebody like Eliwood.

Cavalry-rounds in Rival Domains are one of the easier rounds, if not THE easiest.

Mobility is powerful and cavalry essentially trade stats for mobility -- it's a common balancing archetype in video games involving combat and movement

In my honest opinion, infantry units have been given so much attention that a powerful infantrykiller weapon (think Poison Dagger, but stronger) wouldn't be out of place in today's meta. And overall, I'd say the weakest movement type is armored units -- sure, they have skills like Bold Fighter and such but there's a plethora of counters to them (there's armorkiller weapons, Null Follow-Up, Spurn and similar skills, etc.). And low mobility sucks, making them fairly costly to build. Cavalry units can generally be used everywhere except Arena; armored units are generally not too useful anywhere except Arena.

[MilodicMellodi]

I agree that cavalry need help...but I think staff units in general need way more help.

The only healer-exclusive Passives are Live to Serve and Wrathful/Dazzling Staff. We need a lot more than that...especially since Staff units can't even use the majority of skills in the game.

At the very least, IS could change some existing skills around to be available to staff units, just as they changed Astra and the AoE specials way back when.

[Humanoid]

Hell, I'd take Live to Serve being available from a 4* summonable unit at this stage. Just like Quick Riposte...

Brady's still the only summonable 4* Push too. It's like they've forgotten they were doing those now given how few variants of the Push skills there are and how long it's been.