A Hero Rises 2022 - discussion

[Florete]

8 hours ago, XRay said:

After thinking about it a bit more, I do not think higher level players underrate her because a few units can counter an unmerged, unsupported Edelgard: Hegemon Husk.

It is not just a few units shutting down a max-invested and fully-supported Edelgard: Hegemon Husk, as even the best super tank and save tank teams will not work against every team, it is the combination of factors that make her much less attractive compared to her competition:
1. Galeforce: In a Galeforce team, a more traditional Galeforcer is much easier to use and set up. And if we consider other premium options, Leif: Destined Scion is not only cheaper to use since he is best left unmerged, he has the best mobility and range out of all Galeforcers and the best reliability out of all the ranged Galeforcers, giving the player lots of leeway for mistakes. If you have enough Dancers/Singers to nuke the whole defense team and get Aether Structures in one turn, then you do not need to worry about leaving a Galeforcer in the middle of enemy range since they will all be dead.
2. Super Tank: Being an armor and beast unit means that she has to jump through extra hoops to fix her mobility and work around transformation requirements. It is just far easier to use Yen'fay and stick Lucina: Brave Princess or Flayn behind him, and he is much cheaper to build too since he costs Grails instead of Orbs. And her competition not being armored also helps.
3. Super & Save Tank: As a Save tank for a super tank, other Save tanks are just easier to use without transformation requirements. And her competition is often cheaper and more effective too, as Arden costs Grails and Hector: Brave Warrior has cheaper merges.
4. Double Save Tank: I do not see her working well as a Save tank due to their best support units being staff units, and the strategy requires close contact with those units in a tight formation. And also cheaper and more effective options exist as mentioned above.

In my opinion, the main place where she truly shines is in auto-battle for repetitive but easy modes, like Temepst Trials and Heroes Journey, since foes do not have enough fire power to overwhelm her bulk and regeneration.

Yeah, see, I don't use her as any of these. I use her as a mixed-phase tank; she kills main threats on player phase, then cleans up the rest on enemy phase.

Galeforce is a terrible idea on her. She needs Bonfire to secure important kills, and it's unlikely you'll need a 3rd kill to survive enemy phase.

Safety Fence has made the transformation issue trivial, alongside Mila, Freyja, and most notably Ash being dragon/beast light mythics, and she comes with Armored Stride. Yen'fay doesn't compare very favorably; he avoids effective damage more easily, he has high Spd, and I guess he can run Null-C Disrupt? But he lacks her raw power and natural bulk, her innate Galeforce and Special Fighter, and he's red instead of colorless. His advantages aren't even very noteworthy; Edelgard shrugs off a lot of effective damage (I can't tell you how many Brave Eirikas I've seen run away from her in Summoner Duels) and typically doesn't need Spd to begin with.

I don't use her as a save tank, though I do occasionally use Fjorm: Ice Ascendant as save support for her.

The reality is that I've been using her at a high level for a long time now with a lot of success. I literally just finished this AR-O season essentially perfectly; all points, all pots, just 1 escape ladder used, and mostly with the same team, where Hegemon Edelgard does 90-100% of the combat. She's also gotten me into the top ranks of Summoner Duels R, in which I managed as high as rank 19 in the first season and was still well into the top 1,000 (the highest reward tier) in this recent season. I'd use her in Arena if I had more merges on her.

So yeah, I hold that you underrate her.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Florete

[XRay]

21 hours ago, Florete said:

Yeah, see, I don't use her as any of these. I use her as a mixed-phase tank; she kills main threats on player phase, then cleans up the rest on enemy phase.

I am not sure what kind of teams you face, but I do not see that tactic succeeding very well. Fatal Smoke is everywhere, and nukes like Alm: Imperial Ascent and Catria: Azura Wing Pair are pretty common to bust open tanks left out in the field like that. I do not think Edelgard: Hegemon Husk has an issue with tanking any individual nuke, it is facing multiple nukes one after another that grinds down and kills tanks, and not even most super tanks with full support and three stacks of damage reduction can withstand that level of barrage.

21 hours ago, Florete said:

Safety Fence has made the transformation issue trivial, alongside Mila, Freyja, and most notably Ash being dragon/beast light mythics, and she comes with Armored Stride. Yen'fay doesn't compare very favorably; he avoids effective damage more easily, he has high Spd, and I guess he can run Null-C Disrupt? But he lacks her raw power and natural bulk, her innate Galeforce and Special Fighter, and he's red instead of colorless. His advantages aren't even very noteworthy; Edelgard shrugs off a lot of effective damage (I can't tell you how many Brave Eirikas I've seen run away from her in Summoner Duels) and typically doesn't need Spd to begin with.

Yen'fay is vastly cheaper to build even accounting for premium skills since all you really need are Distant Counter Kestrel Stance, Spurn, Pulse Smoke, and Flayn, just four premium units to summon for inheritance and support, while his merges does not cost any Orbs.

Edited February 8, 2022 by XRay

[Rinco]

4 minutes ago, XRay said:

Yen'fay is vastly cheaper to build even accounting for premium skills since all you really need are Distant Counter, Spurn, Pulse Smoke, and Flayn, just four premium units to summon for inheritance and support, while his merges does not cost any Orbs.

Why would he need DC if his weapon already has it?

[XRay]

2 minutes ago, Rinco said:

Why would he need DC if his weapon already has it?

Woops, brain fart. I will fix that. I was thinking of Ike: Brave Mercenary when I was typing it out.

Edited February 8, 2022 by XRay

[Rinco]

6 minutes ago, XRay said:

Woops, brain fart. I will fix that. I was thinking of Ike: Brave Mercenary when I was typing it out.

I even went to check his weapon twice to confirm I wasn't reading wrong lol

About AHR, do we get to know the top8 in a few days or only when they announce the VG in a couple weeks?

Edited February 8, 2022 by Rinco

[Florete]

4 hours ago, XRay said:

I am not sure what kind of teams you face, but I do not see that tactic succeeding very well. Fatal Smoke is everywhere, and nukes like Alm: Imperial Ascent and Catria: Azura Wing Pair are pretty common to bust open tanks left out in the field like that. I do not think Edelgard: Hegemon Husk has an issue with tanking any individual nuke, it is facing multiple nukes one after another that grinds down and kills tanks, and not even most super tanks with full support and three stacks of damage reduction can withstand that level of barrage.

I mean...I can see it succeed, because it literally does succeed for me. I have a Rinea who can take the hit from and kill in return Duo Lif, and she also has Even Pulse Tie to disable LSigurd's Holy-Knight Aura, rendering those two non-threats, and you don't really see anyone else with Fatal Smoke (and enemy Duo Lifs have a tendency to not fully overlap their range with their allies). I have Gatekeeper who helps against Catria balls with Detailed Report, but I'm also usually able to tank Catria balls with that aforementioned Fjorm support (which also includes Flayn), and that's if I can't just jump in and kill Catria herself. Brave Alm is often in a position where I can kill him on initiation, but even if not I can usually tank the hit and kill him afterward (I've tanked one before with my Edelgard not even transformed).

I've seen pretty much all the supposed counters that you might see on a defense and dealt with them all. The right support and Smite help go a long way.

4 hours ago, XRay said:

Yen'fay is vastly cheaper to build even accounting for premium skills since all you really need are Distant Counter Kestrel Stance, Spurn, Pulse Smoke, and Flayn, just four premium units to summon for inheritance and support, while his merges does not cost any Orbs.

You don't need any premium SI for Edelgard and the merges aren't very important. Mine is +3 merged, which is four premium units summoned, just like your Yen'fay build, and she's been sparkable twice and didn't cost any grails or feathers to get there, so my Edelgard is literally cheaper than your Yen'fay. Besides, while more merges are always nice, 1 merge to clear the bane (or get +2 atk if she's neutral) is the most important thing. Yen'fay still lacks special acceleration, +1 special charge, and innate Galeforce, which are pretty major parts of my Hegemon usage.

[XRay]

26 minutes ago, Florete said:

I've seen pretty much all the supposed counters that you might see on a defense and dealt with them all. The right support and Smite help go a long way.

That is the thing. If she gets Smited in, I do not see how she is going to get that support. If you Smite her and the supports in, the supports will just get nuked instead. A modern cav line will concentrate 4 or 5 nukes at the edge of their range with Pathfinder, and modern flier balls can also concentrate their nukes at the edge of their range by having higher mobility nukes in the back and use Orders buff/Wings of Mercy if necessary. And against either of those teams, I do not see how killing one or two units on player phase will have much difference when there are still five other units that will assault Edelgard: Hegemon Husk at the same time come enemy phase.

[Florete]

3 minutes ago, XRay said:

That is the thing. If she gets Smited in, I do not see how she is going to get that support. If you Smite her and the supports in, the supports will just get nuked instead. A modern cav line will concentrate 4 or 5 nukes at the edge of their range with Pathfinder, and modern flier balls can also concentrate their nukes at the edge of their range by having higher mobility nukes in the back and use Orders buff/Wings of Mercy if necessary. And against either of those teams, I do not see how killing one or two units on player phase will have much difference when there are still five other units that will assault Edelgard: Hegemon Husk at the same time come enemy phase.

I don't Smite her directly into every team. Sometimes I have to hang back first. But killing the right units is often worth more than the sum of its parts; many teams aren't filled with units that can do significant damage to her. Notably, none of the Dark mythics are any sort of threat in combat; Bramimond might leave her with 8 less HP or something like that, at worst. There are almost always at least 2 Dark mythics, sometimes 3, so already that's almost half the team. If they have a non-Triandra dancer, that's 4 and more than half the team that's not a threat. If there are 3 opponents on the team that can take a significant chunk of her HP and I kill 2 on my phase, that last 1 isn't going to kill her. These kills also make it harder for Orders buffs to make an impact. Sometimes I'm even able to just block an enemy; I can distinctly recall one AR-D I faced where I Smited her in, she killed LClaude, then killed Brave Alm with Bonfire, and from there she was blocking a Brave Veronica from doing anything at all, leaving LSigurd as the only real threat, since this was before I had Pulse Tie support and so he was able to use Holy-Knight Aura. I think a Nott and Triandra were among the remainders, but they didn't matter.

Cav lines are rare since Safety Fence, and if I do see them...Safety Fence. The aforementioned Gatekeeper stops WoM strategies (though this is uncommon because the enemy is usually just dead), and Mila further helps by preventing dancers from doing their job if they can even reach their allies to begin with. Mila also soaks Dark Shrines for me and has Sabotage Atk on top of her Mythic buff and Nurturing Breath, so she adds to Edelgard's bulk in a bunch of ways. Some AR-Ds use the maps with defensive tiles which can just simply make Edelgard outright invincible.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

The tweet Feh's Twitter just put out says we'll get the results on the 14th, so we have a little less than a week to wait.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

 

[Naoshi]

Not interested, nice skip for me. I will help to kick F!Edel

[Xenomata]

That... is a lot of Green units, hm...

Well at least Hegemon got bumped out of the top spot.

1. Ninja Corrin is as solid a fast Brave unit as can be. It'd be a little odd to have the AHR unit be the Duo Ninja unit two years in a row, but then again these units are popular for a reason...
2. Kill the abomination against nature.
3. Sigurd remains a potent unit with a support effect that cannot be denied.
4. Thorr is a good unit in general, both in and out of Aether Raids.
5. Eitri is strong and bulky, no denying that.
6. LegM!Byleth's special trigger game is strong, but it might be slightly weakened now that Elimine exists to inflict False Start.
7. DuoAzura is a horse dancer.
8. New Year Dagr has some mean effects between her prf skills and duo skill.

If the freebie unit was decided purely on popularity, I wouldn't have minded getting a free Ninja Corrin, but as it stands I guess I'll be supporting LegM!Byleth since he's the only one of the 8 that I don't own.

[Tybrosion]

Lol, Edegard actually lost 1st to F!Corrin & Elise. And since I have all eight of the finalists, I'm free to side with whoever Edelgard's opponent is (Azura & Leanne if they go with last year's seeding, M!Byleth if they go with 2020's seeding).

And for both myself and others:

Each Unit's Skill Fodder
F!Corrin & Elise: Rally Up Def+, Atk/Spd Push 4, S/R Far Trace 3, Joint Drive Atk
Edelgard: Bonfire, Atk/Def Ideal 4, Armored Stride 3
Sigurd: Draconic Aura, Atk/Def Catch 4, Fatal Smoke 3
Thorr: Bonfire, Atk/Def Push 4, Flow Guard 3
Eitri: Dragon Fang, Atk/Res Solo 4, Atk/Res Rein 3
M!Byleth: Draconic Aura, Atk/Def Ideal 4, Lull Atk/Res 3, Time's Pulse 3
Azura & Leanne: Fury 4, S/R Far Trace 3, Cross Spur Res
Dagr & Nott: Luna, Atk/Spd Push 4, Atk/Def Rein 3
bold = this skill, at this point in time, is only available from this unit

Notes
Summer Leonie has Atk/Spd Push 3 at 4*, while Petrine has it at 5*.
No F2P friendly unit has Atk/Def Ideal 3. So as is AHR tradition, Edelgard provides the worst fodder yet again.
Sedgar has Atk/Def Catch 3 at 5*.
Lex and Heath have Atk/Def Push 3 at 4*, while Vyland has it at 5*.
Hinata and Fallen Takumi have Fury 3 at 4*, while Jagen, Bartre, Legion and Marcia have it at 5*
If you got spares, Baby Lyon and Scion Lewyn both have Atk/Res Solo 3 at 4*.
 

[Sunwoo]

Ugh, how did Duo Azura fall to seventh? At least she's still in, but I'm pretty sure this means she's going against Edelgard first. At least someone else besides her is number one, but just ugh.

As long as Fallen Edelgard isn't literally the freebie, I'll be fine with anyone else.

[Florete]

I hope Duo Corrin wins. Would also be okay with Dagr, as those are the two I don't have. Of all of them, I hope Sigurd gets kicked out first, as he's the least valuable for me.

While I don't actually want her to win, I'm going to side with Edel first round just for the laughs.

[Othin]

I'm missing everyone except Edelgard, so I'll probably side with whoever is her round 1 opponent. After that, if Sigurd makes it to the top 4 I hope he wins since he's the only other non-green, to make the green pool as appealing as possible. I don't particularly care between any of the six greens.

[Lemmy]

1 minute ago, Othin said:

I'm missing everyone except Edelgard, so I'll probably side with whoever is her round 1 opponent. After that, if Sigurd makes it to the top 4 I hope he wins since he's the only other non-green, to make the green pool as appealing as possible. I don't particularly care between any of the six greens.

But think of the 15% pull rate on green, we may never get this again, last time I can even remember was the sister voting gauntlet

[Othin]

Just now, Lemmy said:

But think of the 15% pull rate on green, we may never get this again, last time I can even remember was the sister voting gauntlet

That's the point. Past the first round, the banner will be set, but if it's 1 red and 3 greens, I'd rather have the red one be the one I get for free rather than getting a green one and making the green pool only have two focus units new to my barracks rather than three.

[Diovani Bressan]

5 hours ago, Xenomata said:

It'd be a little odd to have the AHR unit be the Duo Ninja unit two years in a row, but then again these units are popular for a reason...

And if she wins, that would be the 3rd year in a row that a unit with a Brave weapon wins the AHR VG, since 2020 we had Altina.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Diovani Bressan

[Rinco]

If we get the full green banner, that means on average you get a 5* unit on 4 pulls or a focus 5* unit on 6 pulls. That would be 6~10 5* on average if you snipe until you spark. That's insane value.

If they go with last years seedings, I'm hoping for a banner with H!Azura, Ninjorrin, Thorr and L!Byleth.

[Diovani Bressan]

These results show how strong were green units release in 2021, compared to last year's top 8 (3 Colorless, 2 Blue, 2 Green and 1 Red).

Interesting how Summer Byleth managed to enter top 20, while Winter Lysithea is nowhere to be found. I am pretty curious where did she ranked. I will be waiting for the all heroes results.

[MagicCanonBalls]

At least I won't feel bad for not voting L!Claude since he lost by a thousand votes.

Unit wise, I want Byleth and Thorr, although my Anima team is getting stacked since I got Elimine and V!Lucina, but I like her design and might wanna finally build a successful galeforce team.

Fodder wise, this is really not a good lineup. The only two cav/flier mage I use frequently are Gunnthra and Hapi, former has omni chill B skill, Hapi comes with her own far trace. And then there is Time Pulse which is too valuable and only gonna make me hoard until I have at least 5 of them.

[EricaofRenais]

I have Edelgard, Azura and Dagr so if those three lose first round I would be fine with it.  Any of the other 5 I would be happy with.  I just don't want Edelgard since her fodder is useless to me everyone else is fine for fodder/collection.  I will side with whoever is against Edelgard because I don't want her on the banner.

[Tybrosion]

8 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Interesting how Summer Byleth managed to enter top 20, while Winter Lysithea is nowhere to be found.

F!Byleth & Rhea made it that far for the same reason that Summer Freyja (who absolutely isn’t a better unit than the also absent Caeda & Plumeria) made it to 11th.

But aside from guys going full horny, I suppose F!Byleth & Rhea’s absence from the last Hall of Forms might have had a hand in this too.

[NegativeExponents-]

Bummer that Claude didn't make it but glad Thorr did. Will throw my full support behind her because Flow Guard fodder is too good to pass up.