So Elden Ring is out.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

How´s the game been treating you fellow Tarnished?

I´m around 70 hours in and I´ve enjoyed the game quite a bit, but I´ll say – it has been on the downward spiral for me lately. Exploration, with Stormveil being quite the highlight, is fun and with the exception of Caelid the landscapes are a sight to behold. Combat on horse is a nice alternative, all the more when fighting a dragon.

I will say though, the enemy’s speed, in some cases apparent input reading and ability to just ignore whatever it is you do and gleefully staggerlock you into reducing your HP from 100% -> 0% in 2-4 hits, or just plain oneshot you (I´m looking at you Large Lad on a Decrepit Horse and Space Noodle) has been dampening the experience a bit. It sometimes feels like I´m playing Sekiro in DS3 NG+3. It´s especially sad considering the ammo I use is 800 runes/arrow.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I reached Liurnia of the Lakes. I think I've seen more hours streamed of this game than I've actually played, which Steam says is nine hours. I'm going at my own pace, but a lot of my friends are obsessed, six of them with 100+ hours on record, and are constantly thinking of the game when not playing. I do not share this level of enthusiasm. Perhaps if I was playing co op like I did through the Dark Souls trilogy I'd be having more fun, but then again I really enjoyed Sekiro which has no multiplayer.

One thing that I like how viable it is to stagger bosses. Even with my puny mace, a few jump attacks tend to be sufficient. And jumping itself can get you clean over attacks if you're feeling adventurous. 

[null]

I've put about 20 hours into the game so far, give or take.

I'd say I have a good mix of both positive and less positive impressions. As my first Soulsborne experience, it's not exactly the most impressive thing I've played, but there's still a lot to like.

Not sure where my opinion on the game as a whole will end up, honestly. There's aspects I both like and dislike that could send my overall thoughts either way.

I didn't have nearly the same level of hype for the game as many seem to have had in the first place, but am enjoying it regardless.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

20 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

One thing that I like how viable it is to stagger bosses. Even with my puny mace, a few jump attacks tend to be sufficient. And jumping itself can get you clean over attacks if you're feeling adventurous. 

I haven´t had much luck staggering bosses - well outside of dungeon minibosses - but being able to apply a status and seeing it procc more than twice in one bossfight is certainly welcome. 

Sekiro is certainly a more... mechanically focused(?) game, I´d say. Only two swords, after all. 

[joevar]

played around 30+ hours. mostly played blind, except lately i check quest walkthrough because of the nature of openworld also mean its easier to miss stuff compared to any previous soulsborne games. after advancing quest enough, i roam and play mostly blind again. im enjoying the ride.

something that i appreciate with the abundance of side/minibosses in this game is: some are specifically programmed to screw or rather make it harder for certain build. so you might have to change your habit in some cases/bosses. but not as often that you need to prepare every possible weapon, and still possible to brute force your way using your usual method altho harder.

its really a bigger and more fluid dark souls, cant hope for more as someone who played all dark souls through ng+

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

On 3/13/2022 at 7:41 AM, joevar said:

played around 30+ hours. mostly played blind, except lately i check quest walkthrough because of the nature of openworld also mean its easier to miss stuff compared to any previous soulsborne games. after advancing quest enough, i roam and play mostly blind again. im enjoying the ride.

cries in this npc changes location when boss nr x is beaten

I have done a lot of backtracking. A whole lot. Even had to whip out the lists.

On 3/13/2022 at 7:41 AM, joevar said:

something that i appreciate with the abundance of side/minibosses in this game is: some are specifically programmed to screw or rather make it harder for certain build. so you might have to change your habit in some cases/bosses. but not as often that you need to prepare every possible weapon, and still possible to brute force your way using your usual method altho harder.

Eh, the reuse of enemies certainly makes things a lot more stale. Especially when 2 variants of the some enemy type get thrown in together and become a boss fight. Or become a regular enemy. It´s not fun going through a dungeon and then finding out the boss is resistant to that specific type of damage, so now you get to go back to the roundtable, level up a different type of damage and then start chipping away.

Then again, reclassing is easily accessible and there´s plenty reclass items methinks. 

[Tryhard]

From seem to have rebounded from what Sekiro was because sadly a lot of people just aren't really interested in that type of game. In the same way I could be finished with Sekiro in 25 hours and then never have any reason to play it again, Elden Ring is by far the action RPG with the most variety (in terms of gameplay styles and weapon/spell variety) in it that I'm aware of. Just the amount of spells is more than Skyrim had, with more varied spell effects, with a large dump of ashes of war that aren't even included in that. It doesn't do anything particular new but just the sheer amount of gameplay options is something that I haven't seen to this extent before.

So yeah, if From ever wanted to step out of their modern comfort zone, they have been reminded that people are perfectly happy with Dark Souls 4 with the success of this game lol (not to say Sekiro wasn't successful but that is a far more narrow interest range).

I think the game is great but once again From suffers from the same problems they have had before - PC performance being shoddy on the port, unbalanced spells like DS3 with higher tier spells that don't warrant the higher FP cost for the damage they deal, and the reused bosses in a way reminiscent of how Bloodborne chalice dungeons were. In some ways, the game is almost too large, and could have cut off several hours to remove some of the more repetitive bosses or elements.

I like Leyndell more than Stormveil. It's probably one of, if not the most impressive areas I've seen in a Souls game.

Rotten breath with an arcane build is gross and will carry you the entire game

Edited March 15, 2022 by Tryhard

[joevar]

On 3/14/2022 at 8:25 AM, Imuabicus said:

cries in this npc changes location when boss nr x is beaten

I have done a lot of backtracking. A whole lot. Even had to whip out the lists.

Eh, the reuse of enemies certainly makes things a lot more stale. Especially when 2 variants of the some enemy type get thrown in together and become a boss fight. Or become a regular enemy. It´s not fun going through a dungeon and then finding out the boss is resistant to that specific type of damage, so now you get to go back to the roundtable, level up a different type of damage and then start chipping away.

Then again, reclassing is easily accessible and there´s plenty reclass items methinks. 

reclassing item are much more available iirc. the only time i postpone a boss is agaisnt Crystalian. which i thought will never beat due to how small my dmg. turns out if i just hack it enough their defense could break

i didnt hate reused of enemies actually. usually its far apart you can tell you already become stronger and skilled compared when you faced it as a boss. it still giving you hard time? fret not, theres no longer sealed room to prevent you from cheesing (crucible knight for example). but it certainly different when its dogs. its kinda a running joke by FromSoft, someone said. altho i dont get it either.

so like i said, even if you used wrong method, its still possible to brute force your way. or just reclass/ use other weapon or spell type. theres no such thing as coward way imo... except comet azur maybe which already become meme

not to mention reclassing is part of main path, unlike Danksol where its in off-path and you might missed it somehow

 

On 3/14/2022 at 10:31 PM, Tryhard said:

From seem to have rebounded from what Sekiro was because sadly a lot of people just aren't really interested in that type of game.

its safe to say this is mostly wrong. miyazaki has recent interview that touched upon it. Fromsoft working on elden in parallel with sekiro and one other unannounced project. he said sekiro and elden actually influence each other. not just specifically elden ring built upon sekiro. so no matter how sekiro reception were, elden ring would still come out as is.

about spell i mostly agree though. the efficiency ratio of spells in sorcery especially, are all over the place. but on the flip side, its not linear progress where only the most focused build would benefit from spell, and only top tier spell will be usable against tough enemies like so many RPG. im using pure INT caster build and bring non efficient spell in the mix from preventing myself from getting bored / repetitive. ( i dont expect myself to come out on top on pvp tho, so theres that too)

MODEDIT: my man just edit don't repost

Edited March 16, 2022 by joevar

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

1 hour ago, joevar said:

On 3/15/2022 at 3:31 AM, Tryhard said:

From seem to have rebounded from what Sekiro was because sadly a lot of people just aren't really interested in that type of game.

its safe to say this is mostly wrong. miyazaki has recent interview that touched upon it. Fromsoft working on elden in parallel with sekiro and one other unannounced project. he said sekiro and elden actually influence each other. not just specifically elden ring built upon sekiro. so no matter how sekiro reception were, elden ring would still come out as is.

Guard-Countering (a mediocre imitation of the Sekiro parry), equippable weapon skills seems the most prominent Sekiro influence. Maybe jumping ;D

And I´ll take Sekiros combat over any variety DS3 (as it´s the only DS I played) or ER have to offer. Yeah, there´s a lot of variety in both games, but the only thing I never found a use for in Sekiro is the coin throw Shuriken upgrade and in part that´s also because Sekiro bosse can be very fun to just get on up close and personal. Apes and Demons not included. And you´ve said it yourself - there´s variety, but a lot of that variety gets lost when you look at what´s good and what´s not so good or bad. I went from a Bleed Build to Moonveil and damn there´s a difference in exploration, not so much bosses though. When in doubt, I Moonveil Weapon Art.

1 hour ago, joevar said:

the only time i postpone a boss is agaisnt Crystalian. which i thought will never beat due to how small my dmg. turns out if i just hack it enough their defense could break

Yeah, I think if you attack them with a strike weapon (Hammers etc?) the take more damage alltogether and break easier. 

@joevar I dunno how far along you are, so I´ll put everything in this box. Beware: there may be spoilers regarding enemy types and movesets across zones. 

Spoiler

1 hour ago, joevar said:

i didnt hate reused of enemies actually. usually its far apart you can tell you already become stronger and skilled compared when you faced it as a boss. it still giving you hard time? fret not, theres no longer sealed room to prevent you from cheesing (crucible knight for example). but it certainly different when its dogs. its kinda a running joke by FromSoft, someone said. altho i dont get it either.

It´s not just that. Have you reached the Haligtree yet (optional endgame)? The only original thing in that area is the boss and it´s not a small area.

I mean, at least some of the dogs got fur this time. Ofc, that doesn´t last long.

I especially dislike the copy pasting of DS3 movesets. I understand that there´s only so much variety to be had, but still it irks me. Erdtree avatars who are just DS3 thick demons with spicy homing missiles as an addendum. The goddam Godrick Knights, who are also Cuckoo Knights, Radahn Knights, Leyndell Knights, Haligtree Knights, with the Lothric Knight moveset. Same thing with the Godrick/RayaLucaria/Radahn/Leyndell/Haligtree Soldiers, plastered across all areas and the lesser Godrick/RayaLucaria/Radahn/Leyndell/Haligtree Footmen with their DS3 Hollow moveset. The lil´ Catacomb Gargoyles that are Thralls with a dash of bleed.  The Leyndell zone Windmill dancers, who I think are the crazy ladies from the area before Witch of Hemwick? Also the Death-inflicting Basilisks.

I have so far fought: I think 5(?) Erdtree Avatars with at least 1 more in Haligtree, 5 Ulcerated Tree Spirits with one I refuse to do, 3 Dragonkights, I know of 4 Gargoyle fights one of which is a double whammy, 4 Magma Wyrms (with a 2:2 split in variation), 3 outta 4 Bell Bearing hunters with the 5th big boy version down too, 3 Red Wolves of Radagon, an unknown amount of Erdtree Watchdogs, 3 Tree Sentinels and the spicy Dragon version, some 5 Night Cavalry with more to go, 2x Astel the oneshot machine, 3/4 Tibia Mariner, 3 Fallingstar Beasts, 3 Omenkillers, 3 Black Knife Assassins, 2 Godskin Nobles and Apostles with more to go, 2 Ancestor Spirits, 2 Commanders, 3 Stone Lords, some Demi Human Queens (3?). I think there´s also some 4-6 night-spawned Death Birds, but since they surprised me every time I just retreated. At least 2 major bosses got the copy paste treatment.

That´s not counting the enemies that will become regulars, like Leonine Misbegotten, Crucible Knight, Cleanrot Knights, Kindred of Rot, Mad Pumpkin, Runebears, Demi Human Chiefs, Crystalians, Lion Guardians, Zamor Knights.

Those are the ones of the top of my head and I have yet to enter the final two areas. 

[Tryhard]

dont get me wrong, i like sekiro but it was in parallel to elden ring because it was a side project and thats why it never got a real dlc. honestly i dont see much sekiro influence aside from the jump button, they are completely different games where one is very focused gameplay wise and the other has so much shit in it, warts and unbalanced nonsense in it regardless. Elden Ring has already sold 12m copies, thats kind of crazy.

personally i prefer the unbalanced mess that ill undoubtedly play for hundred of hours because it actually has replay value compared to me playing and beating sekiro in 25 hours and never having any reason to play it again.

Froms next game is probably a new Armored Core regardless.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Tryhard

[joevar]

i too prefer some unbalanced mess of options. similar to Fire emblem to a certain extent. because there are other ways to go or how you want to play it. but if you're bad at parrying in sekiro, you can kiss goodbye to beating it.

i never.. like seriously never parry even once in Elden ring even though i practice parry a lot in Dark soul 1-3. never part away with a shield no matter what build. shield is my best friend thourgh DS1-3 . but past 15 hour in ER, i almost never look at shield anymore not because its bad, but because i suck at it and ranged gameplay are even more viable than ever. (i still equip it out of habit but forgot / didnt bother try to use it from time to time somehow)

about using moonveil because its reliable method, then whats the difference between ol reliable parry in sekiro? isnt it the most reliable method to kill bosses to the point they have perfect gameplay even against toughest boss? (except parry only for the talented ofc).

and for the last 2 area, i havent reach it yet. but i dont have any argument except: yes i've seen people said "those 2 areas seems neglected/rushed when compared to Limgrave, liurnia, etc. it is a letdown, as much as every big openworld world game did it every time. i already expect it tbh. at least they are humble enough by saying "ER can be beaten within 30 hours" so they cool down some people expectation a bit.

maybe you should try Nioh or Tsushima if you like sekiro since its doesnt have too much unbalanced magic nonsense while having refined and tight melee combat @Imuabicus

Edited March 16, 2022 by joevar

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

On 3/16/2022 at 1:31 PM, joevar said:

about using moonveil because its reliable method, then whats the difference between ol reliable parry in sekiro? isnt it the most reliable method to kill bosses to the point they have perfect gameplay even against toughest boss? (except parry only for the talented ofc).

Oh yeah, 2 things about that: 1) Sekiro Parry is the core mechanic of the game - try and play Sekiro without deflecting/parrying while Moonveil is one weapon and it´s weapon art. And 2) that was said befor experiencing more of the lategame bosses. 

On 3/16/2022 at 1:31 PM, joevar said:

maybe you should try Nioh or Tsushima if you like sekiro since its doesnt have too much unbalanced magic nonsense while having refined and tight melee combat

I thought about Tsushima, but I don´t have a PS so eh.

 

Anyway, having now finished the game I must say, 2 hands and 3 fingers out of 4/20. I still have some stuff left to explore, mostly dungeons in the lategame areas but there won´t be anything I haven´t seen yet. Other than that, I have found a new appreciation for Rennala. The one "normal" main story boss, not even good just not as bad as the rest of the lot. Elden Ring with it´s Ashes fell into the same trap as Code Vein with it´s companions.

[joevar]

17 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Oh yeah, 2 things about that: 1) Sekiro Parry is the core mechanic of the game - try and play Sekiro without deflecting/parrying while Moonveil is one weapon and it´s weapon art. And 2) that was said befor experiencing more of the lategame bosses. 

thats why i dont get far playing sekiro, but (fortunately?) i play it on my friend PS4 so.. nothing wasted i guess. im just that bad at parrying, and the whole theme didnt click with me. even though ninja game like Tenchu was one of my favorite. so this one falls into "game im looking forward but ultimately didnt play properly / finish"

17 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

2 hands and 3 fingers out of 4/20. I still have some stuff left to explore, mostly dungeons in the lategame areas but there won´t be anything I haven´t seen yet. Other than that, I have found a new appreciation for Rennala. The one "normal" main story boss, not even good just not as bad as the rest of the lot. Elden Ring with it´s Ashes fell into the same trap as Code Vein with it´s companions.

uhh honestly dunno what u mean by that fingers count.

rennala actually feels like ol DS 1-2 bosses. not hyper aggressive, also lots of window for attacking. the only challenging part was if someone roll a bad dice and she randomly summon something big which happen to someone but not to me. Ashes opinion is divided for sure, most of the time it feels like cheesing when using it, or too hard when not using it. but pretty sure generally it helps people who never touch soulsborne game to somewhat survive most bosses (also for people who hate/cant play online).

ive made peace with people cheesing, i thought i was bad not being able to parry but statistic shows there are far more people way worse than me not only in parrying

[joevar]

actually, scratch my previous comment about ashes. thinking about some more, complaining about ashes is dumb, dumb, dumb.

imo its the same as complaints about the inclusion of halberd, rapier, whips, and claws from people who dont find it appealing and thought: why is it there, if theres already katana or bonk enemy with colossal weapon. also good ol magic efficiency

spirit ashes is just NPC summon actually, its been there as long as Demon Souls IIRC. the only differences are  they are not tied to quest progression (except latenna and jellyfish ashes maybe) and no need for lore why they help you in every situation. they have background prior to that, but not when they are summoned. whereas NPC summon have actual lore why they are available to be summoned before particular boss.

as opposed to that theres Summoning player. Summoning player most of the time will give you 2 extreme option: 1. the afraid, useless and died early. or 2. the overly OP with cheese method they clear boss in 20 second. almost no middle ground.

the actual middleground is that: ashes

sorry this one is one thing i cant back down. i agree about the BS of lots of bosses tho  😂

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

11 hours ago, joevar said:

Ashes opinion is divided for sure, most of the time it feels like cheesing when using it, or too hard when not using it.

That´s what I meant; on your own there´s a good chance bosses will spam you to death. Against the final boss I was dealing with two tracking attacks while a third set of attacks was already coming towards me with no chance for recovery inbetween - and I mean stamina recovery, not health - to me this is the dev saying "use the summon." For me it feels as though they created bosses for combat with Ashes as a baseline, instead of a "classic" 1v1 between the player and the boss.

Hence the Code Vein namedrop - with companion most bosses are a joke, but without? Absolute fucken nightmares  (some of them).

[joevar]

18 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

as though they created bosses for combat with Ashes as a baseline, instead of a "classic" 1v1 between the player and the boss.

dont know if its official, but its proven: IT actually IS

its a byproduct between boss and ashes. altho its not clear which is the product and which is the byproduct (the boss have ashes in mind, or the boss like that from start so they add ashes) and generate a lot of WTF moment for sure. as you can guess not every boss in previous soulsborn game has NPC help, only the most difficult.

but  i dunno man, when a boss is BS, i just take a peek at YT, and found people doing just fine with minimal damage and/or actually dodge or parry boss attack that i keep dying from..

ever give a thought what if Elden ring flops from launch and only has fewer player than DS? and now you cant call someone for help because the game is big (few people who are willing to help are all waiting in other area boss) and no ashes?

Edited March 31, 2022 by joevar

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

10 hours ago, joevar said:

but  i dunno man, when a boss is BS, i just take a peek at YT, and found people doing just fine with minimal damage and/or actually dodge or parry boss attack that i keep dying from..

Hey, if you want to play against a boss for 10 hours to 7 days and learn to dodge every move pixel perfect, be my guest. All the more if you make some money of them videos. But that isn´t for me - I did it once and it was miserable. 

10 hours ago, joevar said:

ever give a thought what if Elden ring flops from launch and only has fewer player than DS? and now you cant call someone for help because the game is big (few people who are willing to help are all waiting in other area boss) and no ashes?

Not really? ER was about as hyped up as Cyberpunk from my understanding? Is that healthy? Prolly not? And if it flopped, there wouldn´t really be many players trying to progress anyway unless I´m misunderstanding what you mean.

I played DS3 offline I played ER offline.

There is no boss in DS3 that i thought impossible. Annoying? Sure! A very unpleasant FU to Nameless King first phase! The biggest enemy is still the camera. But I´m pretty sure I would have never beaten some bosses without Ashes and not all of them are optional. I´m saying some bosses are too much, not that From is supposed to hand you a free win - a minimum of interaction between player and game mechanics is something one should be reasonably able to expect - why play games otherwise.

Have you ever wondered what a ER boss fight would be like, if they didn´t design it around Ashes?

[joevar]

21 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Have you ever wondered what a ER boss fight would be like, if they didn´t design it around Ashes?

yes i had. it would be ds1 or ds2 boss at best. now would that be bad ? ofc not. but im sure they want to set the bar higher in terms of boss design because its no longer a new series with new approach (Elden ring still pretty much dark soul that target same demographic despite the flock of people trying it after all). so a big boss that only poke you every 20 second when you can spam bloodhound step will be weird.

many bosses in DS1 also dont have npc summon at all. not because quest progression or something. they just dont. but if you have tried DS1, im sure you will also think pretty much all expansion boss and ornstein and smough a BS. in a game where your movement way more sluggish than ER, a boss can do triple somersault followed by skill precisely similar to Bloodhound fang in ER. cant summon help if i play offline. no fancy skills to change. must git gud. in turns, it scare away people. its worse.

so designed with ashes in mind or not, im sure theres still going to be BS bossfight depend on your playstyle. all the more reason why i dont have big problem with ashes because not all ashes are same. if the ashes are only Mimic, Tiche or Oleg maybe i will have same problem with it.

21 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Hey, if you want to play against a boss for 10 hours to 7 days and learn to dodge every move pixel perfect, be my guest. All the more if you make some money of them videos. But that isn´t for me - I did it once and it was miserable. 

no, not that. certainly not ongbal. but people using certain weapon, or certain ashes of war which is effective to the bosses. not sticking to same weapon to every boss

in summary: yes, it punish stubborn playstyle in the end. but its hard to find game with this many option not struggle with it. from triple A studio to indie.

my solution: nerf the legendary ashes. so bossfight doesnt become trivial. or ashes become more or less similar to NPC summon (both in usefulness and uselessness). counterproductive? maybe. but you also need to remove ashes of war (and rock sling. shit just too damn op for so little cost) to make boss like DS1 & DS2 pose a challenge.

21 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

And if it flopped, there wouldn´t really be many players trying to progress anyway unless I´m misunderstanding what you mean.

non try-hard player cant beat the game anymore because theres just no option for help/easier mode anymore

----------------------------------------------------------------------

but im really curious which mandatory  bossfight in ER you think impossible to beat solo offline without OP ashes for average player.

for me its only maliketh. other bossess have NPC summon, while final boss is also manageable if not because its 2 bossfight in succession make people nervous.

 

EDIT (bonus): another solution is to make armor matter more. because god knows why since DS3 armor became good only for fashion. i like it for fashion,. but somehow poise became almost non existent too in the process. so in line with hyper aggressive boss you dont get one shotted anymore and have room for bigger margin of error.

in DS1 or DS2 you became actual tank after finishing last boss and backtrack to earlier area because you can upgrade armor.

Edited April 1, 2022 by joevar

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

On 4/1/2022 at 5:20 PM, joevar said:

yes i had.it would be ds1 or ds2 boss at best.

... I was thinking DS3 bosses - 2nd Gundyr, Abyss 2nd Phase, Pontiff, Friede, Gael. Those were pretty okay to good.

On 4/1/2022 at 5:20 PM, joevar said:

non try-hard player cant beat the game anymore because theres just no option for help/easier mode anymore

In that case FS would be a failure of a company.

On 4/1/2022 at 5:20 PM, joevar said:

but im really curious which mandatory  bossfight in ER you think impossible to beat solo offline without OP ashes for average player.

I can´t even answer that, cause after Radahn I decided it ain´t worth it and just defaulted to Ashes. The only boss I decided to not do that was Malenia, since I was expecting Isshin 2.0 or Lady Maria, but after getting styled on from across the arena I brought out my better half. 

I guess Godskin Duo, Maliketh and Radagon/Space Loch Ness are things I wouldn´t have the patience for. 

[Alastor15243]

I just recently cleared stormveil castle and got my first great rune. I'm enjoying the game a lot, currently doing my favorite build, a dex-int hybrid, started with samurai and later got glintstone sorcery. Very few complaints, it's a pretty awesome game.

[joevar]

5 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

... I was thinking DS3 bosses - 2nd Gundyr, Abyss 2nd Phase, Pontiff, Friede, Gael. Those were pretty okay to good.

uh oh Friede. i just give up trying to beat it Solo. i expect they reserved 3-phase boss for DLC too in ER. since its become habit of FR to give difficulty spike in DLC. other than that i guess i agree those are bosses doable solo but still kinda hard.

5 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

The only boss I decided to not do that was Malenia, since I was expecting Isshin 2.0 or Lady Maria, but after getting styled on from across the arena I brought out my better half. 

imo thats the worst boss to decide to not use ashes after using it often. and i do wish Mimic tear not a thing. (and im sure people wish it would be a thing if its not there)

- - - - - - - - - - -

polygon (of all places!!!) actually has a video that explain whats the deal with bosses in ER. (they use margit as example). long story short, the amount of complexity in boss programming actually way more complex than ever before in FR games. theres the traditional long string of combo sure, but what catch most people were attack cancel, attack delay, counter, input reaction,  and even target-switch-mid-flight thingy XD. and all those can interrupt or change combo to the point theres no pattern anymore. unlike FR previous games. also, from my observation theres no traditional hidden Aggro "meter". 

some bosses become less erratic solo. or in godskin duo case you can actually put them to sleep for a generous amount of time, around 30 second - 1 minute i think. its not even cheese, just something almost no one thought of using when theres bleed/hemorrhage. almost like status staves in FE imo (useful but too niche to care)

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

10 hours ago, joevar said:

imo thats the worst boss to decide to not use ashes after using it often.

Eh, her regular attacks are easy enough to dodge, barring Waterfowl Dance - I wouldn´t know about her 2nd phase though, cuz she didn´t survive her inital attack.

10 hours ago, joevar said:

long story short, the amount of complexity in boss programming actually way more complex than ever before in FR games. theres the traditional long string of combo sure, but what catch most people were attack cancel, attack delay, counter, input reaction,  and even target-switch-mid-flight thingy XD. and all those can interrupt or change combo to the point theres no pattern anymore. unlike FR previous games. also, from my observation theres no traditional hidden Aggro "meter". 

Yeah and as mentioned that´s my problem - 30 second attack sequence, with no window of opportunity, after which you might get an attack in, if 1) you had the stamina and 2) the Ai doesn´t decide to lauch a 30 second attack sequence again.

I´m not fighting a boss, I´m fighting a hacked invader with infinte stamina and infinite mana (moreso a problem with enemy npcs) and that shit gets cheesed real quick.

10 hours ago, joevar said:

or in godskin duo case you can actually put them to sleep for a generous amount of time, around 30 second - 1 minute i think. its not even cheese, just something almost no one thought of using when theres bleed/hemorrhage.

Which I wouldn´t have figured out, because I didn´t have the stats for St. Trinas Sword, nor would I randomly start throwing pots  

16 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

a dex-int hybrid,

A Moonveil enjoyer in the making?

[Tryhard]

From are kinda in an awkward place because people for some reason think their previous older games are super hard. I've heard over and over again that Dark Souls 1 is the hardest Souls game. If you go back and play it now, it's hard to keep that opinion. Ever since Bloodborne they have been making enemies more aggressive in a way that just wasn't really the case in any game DS2 and earlier.

If they had released Elden Ring with the same rudimentary enemy patterns as Dark Souls 1, the game would be panned for being too easy for From's reputation, despite that not really being an accurate depiction of the series in terms of difficulty. So From feel a need to constantly raise the stakes because people familar with souls are getting/have gotten very very good at their games in a way that they will just be bored otherwise. Or at least, that's the opinion that difficulty is very important for these games. Something that I question to begin with since that's not the reason I play them.

In terms of pure difficulty though, just on the account of no summons, and having very limited tools and playstyle, I still think Sekiro can be harder. In the way that if you can't beat the boss there are not really any easier paths you can take of getting someone to help you, or anything like that.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Tryhard

[joevar]

20 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Eh, her regular attacks are easy enough to dodge, barring Waterfowl Dance - I wouldn´t know about her 2nd phase though, cuz she didn´t survive her inital attack.

then why stop trying to beat her solo?

sekiro is even harder than ER imo. you only need to parry malenia 3 times before landing a free stab. iirc you need way more than that for the hardest boss in sekiro. somehow you beat it and got through everyone's  best boss in entire Fromsoft games up to date

5 hours ago, Tryhard said:

Or at least, that's the opinion that difficulty is very important for these games. Something that I question to begin with since that's not the reason I play them.

unfortunately its not just anyone opinion. thats the opinion of Miyazaki  the director of these games except DkS2

 

5 hours ago, Tryhard said:

I still think Sekiro can be harder. In the way that if you can't beat the boss there are not really any easier paths you can take of getting someone to help you, or anything like that.

its even more git gud than ER due to more streamlined gameplay. but somehow in ER people just give up and find gimmick to blame for that problem

trying to compare Sekiro and ER like comparing Circuit Race and Street race . all Asetto Corsa, iRacing, etc enjoyers will keep shaming people who just want to have fun in games like Forza, because you cant apply perfect skill with sensible physics in latter, and the difficulty feels hollow/wrong due to not behaving like it should be.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

1 hour ago, joevar said:

then why stop trying to beat her solo?

Not dealing with a random, instant attempt ender - that happened 5 times with Radahn Meteors, 7 times with Astels grabs and fuck that, I´m not wasting my time with that. 

1 hour ago, joevar said:

sekiro is even harder than ER imo. you only need to parry malenia 3 times before landing a free stab. iirc you need way more than that for the hardest boss in sekiro. somehow you beat it and got through everyone's  best boss in entire Fromsoft games up to date

Yeah, only parry Malenia 3 times for 1k damage out of what, 20k, and if you miss your timing once she´s gonna heal for more than one backstab, gg ez bro. Parrying is like, 2/4 out of a Sekiro boss, 1/4 attacking and 1/4 Mikiri Counter. 

Sekiro is harder in that it´s harder to learn, and the fact that it´s early game dropkicks you from the balcony instead of actually teaching you how to play, but enemies are far more consistent in what they do. 

And unlike ER or DS you get the chance to "interact" with the boss - attacking, defending, dodging, parrying, using the prosthetic it´s a natural part of a potentially flowing fight as opposed to the traffic light system of ER/DS blatantly telling you: you may not attack now, you may attack now. Or not, catch this delay.