Three Hopes General Discussion Thread

[Jotari]

Course I could see Edelgard specifically not marrying just to reinforce her system. After all, the feudal advantage of marriage were the kids produced as a result that would be family of both powers. But Edelgard specifically doesn't want to build a dynasty of her own bloodline. So staying single all her life and removing any blood successors would help to establish the difference (this is also one of the reasons I kind of wish Edelgard was canonically gay).

[Metal Flash]

10 hours ago, Jotari said:

Course I could see Edelgard specifically not marrying just to reinforce her system. After all, the feudal advantage of marriage were the kids produced as a result that would be family of both powers. But Edelgard specifically doesn't want to build a dynasty of her own bloodline. So staying single all her life and removing any blood successors would help to establish the difference (this is also one of the reasons I kind of wish Edelgard was canonically gay).

That is a good point. She wants to create a world where people rise up by their own merit, not leaving a child for people to enforce the old system after she`s gone is a good call. 

I feel like making her gay would be interesting- Not sure it would be neccesary to make her not kids, but it would be interesting nonetheless. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Metal Flash

[ZanaLyrander]

Honestly, given the messed up crest experiments performed on her, I wouldn't have been surprised if Edelgard was infertile, though some of her endings from Three Houses already confirm that she's not. But yeah, Edelgard not having children kinda makes sense to me. Personally, I think she should adopt: the whole point is that merit and competence, not genetics, is what determines a person's worth in Edelgard's new system, what better way to demonstrate that than for her to raise a child/children to be strong and capable who have no blood relation to her?

[Jotari]

25 minutes ago, ZanaLyrander said:

Honestly, given the messed up crest experiments performed on her, I wouldn't have been surprised if Edelgard was infertile, though some of her endings from Three Houses already confirm that she's not. But yeah, Edelgard not having children kinda makes sense to me. Personally, I think she should adopt: the whole point is that merit and competence, not genetics, is what determines a person's worth in Edelgard's new system, what better way to demonstrate that than for her to raise a child/children to be strong and capable who have no blood relation to her?

That's the way the Roman  emperors did it...to some very mixed results.

[ZanaLyrander]

Just now, Jotari said:

That's the way the Roman  emperors did it...to some very mixed results.

Lol, from what I remember from Roman history, I think there were other problems I'd blame for their troubles sooner than I'd blame the idea of adopting children and raising them to be leaders.

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, ZanaLyrander said:

Lol, from what I remember from Roman history, I think there were other problems I'd blame for their troubles sooner than I'd blame the idea of adopting children and raising them to be leaders.

One way or another, Roman succession was a bit of a mess.

[Sire]

...I just realized I can start S-Ranking (Maddening) the other routes via Record Keeper instead of playing through the campaign.
-- Granted, this realization only occurred since I still need to level certain units before they become unavailable for me when I start a new run. Previously, I would just run the main chapter maps so I can put in a full team of 8. Getting S-Ranks while training the Bonus Units is actually pretty nice, although my Blue Lions will suffer a bit since I'm using their maps for clears.
-- Of course, nothing is stopping me from playing through the campaign normally, but Vanguard Whistle auto-clears is too good for getting campaign resources (Training Grounds and Stat Boosters).

[Etrurian emperor]

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

That's the way the Roman  emperors did it...to some very mixed results.

Well not entirely. In most cases were the emperors adopted heirs they either didn't have any heirs of their own or adopted someone who was essentially already in the family. Comodus(of Gladiator fame) is often seen as his father rejecting the adoption system and the empire being saddled with a terrible emperor because of it, but on closer inspection that emperor was simply the only one in a long while who actually had a son he could pass the title on to.

There's also a theory that the practice of emperors adopting heirs might have overlapped with a string of emperors who were gay and thus not inclined to have children of their own.

[Metal Flash]

11 hours ago, Jotari said:

(this is also one of the reasons I kind of wish Edelgard was canonically gay)

Sorry for the double quote, but I am just curious, what other reasons do you want Edelgard to be canonically lesbian?

[Seazas]

On 8/7/2022 at 7:32 PM, Jotari said:

Does it count as a ship if it's purely for political reasons?

I see. Guess I was a bit burned out on ancillary part 1 dialogue and supports by the time I first played Azure Moon (my fourth route in Three Houses). This still seems like a radical change for the character. I think they could have gotten away with just Cornelia alone as a boss. Also, what actually triggers this attempted coup? The timeline changing for Edelgard's route makes perfect sense as it jumps off the Monica plot, and the ramifications of what she does there changes the outcome of the entire game, but Claude and Dimitiri's plots are almost like filler. Rufus doesn't attempt his coup in Three Houses because he's just not in the mood? Cornelia does say something about not being able to contact Thales as a result of Edelgard's coup and goes ahead on her own authority but even then it's a bit silly that Rufus and Cornelia would just sit on this plan for months in the original timeline until Cornelia gets board or something and just kills Rufus instead. What would actually make more sense retroactively for Three Houses is if Dimitri actually did kill Rufus in private.

And Claude's timeline changes because Shahid just doesn't exist in Three Houses for some reason.

Nah. Rufus didn't have a radical change because there was nothing to his character. And by the by, the coup happens because of Edelgard's actions against the Slithers. The prologue's events throughout all routes exist together to a degree. The order goes from Edelgard to Dimitri to Claude. 

Thales tells an Agarthan agent to tell Cornelia the news. And Cornelia says directly that she won't sit around and wait for Thales to act (like she did in the original) due to Thales and the group getting exposed far too early in this timeline, she manipulates Rufus and his fear to start a coup. 

[Jotari]

11 hours ago, Metal Flash said:

Sorry for the double quote, but I am just curious, what other reasons do you want Edelgard to be canonically lesbian?

Do I have any other reasons? I did use plural so I guess I must. Eh, I guess in general I'd like to see a few more gay characters as I feel the S Ranked/Avatar combination philosophy means Bi characters will always out-prioritize gay characters due to being pairable with the avatar in both genders. And I guess, beyond that, idk, just a vibe?

2 hours ago, Seazas said:

Nah. Rufus didn't have a radical change because there was nothing to his character. And by the by, the coup happens because of Edelgard's actions against the Slithers. The prologue's events throughout all routes exist together to a degree. The order goes from Edelgard to Dimitri to Claude. 

Thales tells an Agarthan agent to tell Cornelia the news. And Cornelia says directly that she won't sit around and wait for Thales to act (like she did in the original) due to Thales and the group getting exposed far too early in this timeline, she manipulates Rufus and his fear to start a coup. 

It does make his offscreen death and Dimitri's framing a bit less tragic in Three Houses (and Dimitri a bit more culpable of actually doing the deed. Does he ever actually deny killing him in Azure Moon?).

[Seazas]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Do I have any other reasons? I did use plural so I guess I must. Eh, I guess in general I'd like to see a few more gay characters as I feel the S Ranked/Avatar combination philosophy means Bi characters will always out-prioritize gay characters due to being pairable with the avatar in both genders. And I guess, beyond that, idk, just a vibe?

It does make his offscreen death and Dimitri's framing a bit less tragic in Three Houses (and Dimitri a bit more culpable of actually doing the deed. Does he ever actually deny killing him in Azure Moon?).

Did the game ever really frame his death as tragic? From what I remember, Rufus was just a plot device used for the false sentencing of Dimitri and that was it. Rufus had a ton of interpretations due to how nothing he was. We never had a scene where Dimitri really mourned his unfair death either. I just think Three Hopes took the opportunity for some tragic irony by having Dimitri actually be the cause of his death this time. Hopes is filled with cute details like these. Like how the Death Knight is responsible for saving Monica than having her kidnapped (or generally kidnapping girls, instead he's the reason one is saved). Or how Claude fights the one character he never fought in Three Houses.

Rufus was never treated as sympathetic. Cornelia even implied he was involved but now we have direct confirmation.

[Jotari]

3 minutes ago, Seazas said:

Did the game ever really frame his death as tragic? From what I remember, Rufus was just a plot device used for the false sentencing of Dimitri and that was it. Rufus had a ton of interpretations due to how nothing he was. We never had a scene where Dimitri really mourned his unfair death either. I just think Three Hopes took the opportunity for some tragic irony by having Dimitri actually be the cause of his death this time. Hopes is filled with cute details like these. Like how the Death Knight is responsible for saving Monica than having her kidnapped (or generally kidnapping girls, instead he's the reason one is saved). Or how Claude fights the one character he never fought in Three Houses.

The whole event is tragic not for Rufus, but for Dimitri himself. Because it's the loss of his last family member, his kingdom and his liberty. But if his last family member was an asshole who killed his father and tried to murder him then the loss of the last family member is muted.

He's also kind of implied to be alive in Crimson Flower which almost begs belief in light of how antagonistic he was towards Dimitri.

Quote

Rufus was never treated as sympathetic. Cornelia even implied he was involved but now we have direct confirmation.

I don't remember that bit. If that's the case then it was probably something planned from the start that just didn't have time to be expounded upon. Presumably because someone walked in and vetoed any attempt to depict more than three people from a prior generation on screen.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Jotari

[Seazas]

9 minutes ago, Jotari said:

The whole event is tragic not for Rufus, but for Dimitri himself. Because it's the loss of his last family member, his kingdom and his liberty. But if his last family member was an asshole who killed his father and tried to murder him then the loss of the last family member is muted.

He's also kind of implied to be alive in Crimson Flower which almost begs belief in light of how antagonistic he was towards Dimitri.

I don't remember that bit. If that's the case then it was probably something planned from the start that just didn't have time to be expounded upon. Presumably because someone walked in and vetoed any attempt to depict more than three people from a prior generation on screen.

But Dimitri literally never acknowledges Rufus that way. We never see him go on to talk about Rufus being his only remaining family or how it was super tragic for his character that he died. And in a way, this is arguably more tragic for Dimitri's character going off his interactions with Rufus and his desire to come to an understanding. Rufus being another fucked up person in Dimitri's life adds extra sad layers.

Rufus is just scared of Dimitri, there's nothing he can do if Dimitri takes the throne back in Crimson Flower. Especially during a big war, it threatens Rufus' comfort too. 

Cornelia had it where Dimitri's framing for the death of his uncle was based on the idea that he found out Rufus might have been involved with the tragedy or something like that.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Seazas

[Metal Flash]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Do I have any other reasons? I did use plural so I guess I must. Eh, I guess in general I'd like to see a few more gay characters as I feel the S Ranked/Avatar combination philosophy means Bi characters will always out-prioritize gay characters due to being pairable with the avatar in both genders. And I guess, beyond that, idk, just a vibe?

Yeah, purely gay characters are gonna be very unlikely with avatars around. Getting more good gay/lesbian characters would be great.

I never get how people get "gay vibes" from characters. I see many say the same about Claude, but never got what "vibes" they saw. But this isn`t the place to discuss that.

[Jotari]

20 minutes ago, Metal Flash said:

Yeah, purely gay characters are gonna be very unlikely with avatars around. Getting more good gay/lesbian characters would be great.

I never get how people get "gay vibes" from characters. I see many say the same about Claude, but never got what "vibes" they saw. But this isn`t the place to discuss that.

Well if all things were balanced male Byleth would have a same gender option too, and I see that being a thing with Claude a lot more than Dimitri.

[Metal Flash]

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

Well if all things were balanced male Byleth would have a same gender option too, and I see that being a thing with Claude a lot more than Dimitri.

I mean, Dimitri calls Byleth "my beloved" regardless of gender and has quite the suggestive ending with Felix. And many think he is awfully close to Dedue. 

Then again, Claude does take Byleth`s hand at the dance regardless of gender and wink at them.

Could go with either if you ask me.

[Aedan7479]

The Documents in the game add a whole lot of information; there are documents giving details on all the different Fodlan territories like prevalent industries, trade, and geography, there's letter that confirms who Claudia (the one mentioned in the shadow Library) married, War accounts, a letter from Glenn, information on Maurice etc. Nothing major, but it a considerable amount of world building, which is always appreciated.

[Shadow Mir]

On 8/18/2022 at 9:13 PM, Fabulously Olivier said:

Bege Capone's moveset is so bad I genuinely wonder how you're even supposed to win with it. You're a less mobile ranged character who does fuck all damage, and doesn't flinch foes with most of your attacks. Probably the single worst moveset in a Warriors game.

Zoinks! That's pretty bad.

Anyway, is it just me or do enemies eventually get to the point where they can lop off like half your health in one hit, even when you're avoiding bad matchups?

[IonicAmalgam]

On 8/19/2022 at 10:59 AM, Sire said:

...I just realized I can start S-Ranking (Maddening) the other routes via Record Keeper instead of playing through the campaign.
-- Granted, this realization only occurred since I still need to level certain units before they become unavailable for me when I start a new run. Previously, I would just run the main chapter maps so I can put in a full team of 8. Getting S-Ranks while training the Bonus Units is actually pretty nice, although my Blue Lions will suffer a bit since I'm using their maps for clears.
-- Of course, nothing is stopping me from playing through the campaign normally, but Vanguard Whistle auto-clears is too good for getting campaign resources (Training Grounds and Stat Boosters).

How does this merc whistle auto clear work

Edited August 21, 2022 by IonicAmalgam

[Sire]

38 minutes ago, IonicAmalgam said:

How does this merc whistle auto clear work

1. You have to be in NG+.
2. You buy the Vanguard Whistle from the Renown Shop. (Merc Whistle is a different item for getting an accessory that changes the Personal Skill on a character)
3. You use the Vanguard Whistle on the "World Map." It automatically wins the battle, giving you the clear reward and access to that location's survey spots.
-- However, it does not give you S-Rank and does not clear locked survey spots (such as complete all side missions or reach a KO Count for the chapter). If you want to survey a locked location or get S-Rank, one will have to fulfill the requirements manually.
-- Also, Vanguard Whistles cannot be used for "Challenge Battles," which are the battles that have restrictions (such as fielding only Male Units for the battle, cannot dodge during the battle, etc.)

As I have stated in a previous post, the idea is to auto-complete the side battles using Vanguard Whistles, collecting the survey spot rewards, and only manually fight the main chapter battle.
-- This way you can speed through the campaign to make efficient use of the Training Grounds (for mastering classes) as well as farming Stat Boosters (Renown Shop, Anna's Shop, and a few Survey Spots). Getting some free Forge Uses is also nice as higher-level forging can be quite expensive.
-- Depending on the goal, fighting some of the side battles can be worthwhile if trying to claim a certain survey reward (usually locked or needing to clear a Challenge Battle to access).

Hope this helps!

Edited August 21, 2022 by Sire

[IonicAmalgam]

8 hours ago, Sire said:

1. You have to be in NG+.
2. You buy the Vanguard Whistle from the Renown Shop. (Merc Whistle is a different item for getting an accessory that changes the Personal Skill on a character)
3. You use the Vanguard Whistle on the "World Map." It automatically wins the battle, giving you the clear reward and access to that location's survey spots.
-- However, it does not give you S-Rank and does not clear locked survey spots (such as complete all side missions or reach a KO Count for the chapter). If you want to survey a locked location or get S-Rank, one will have to fulfill the requirements manually.
-- Also, Vanguard Whistles cannot be used for "Challenge Battles," which are the battles that have restrictions (such as fielding only Male Units for the battle, cannot dodge during the battle, etc.)

As I have stated in a previous post, the idea is to auto-complete the side battles using Vanguard Whistles, collecting the survey spot rewards, and only manually fight the main chapter battle.
-- This way you can speed through the campaign to make efficient use of the Training Grounds (for mastering classes) as well as farming Stat Boosters (Renown Shop, Anna's Shop, and a few Survey Spots). Getting some free Forge Uses is also nice as higher-level forging can be quite expensive.
-- Depending on the goal, fighting some of the side battles can be worthwhile if trying to claim a certain survey reward (usually locked or needing to clear a Challenge Battle to access).

Hope this helps!

Thanks!

[Sire]

Out of curiosity, has anyone tried using Constance with Agnea's Arrow and Meteor, specifically to see if Emergent Magic has any effect?
-- I imagine it'll upgrade the Elemental Spells to their Elemental Essence counterparts, but since the above two spells have no element, I wonder if they have a "super-powered" version.
-- On the note of Emergent Magic, I wonder if there happens to be a T3 version of spells (Elemental Essence + Emergent Magic). 

[Archeleon]

3 hours ago, Sire said:

Out of curiosity, has anyone tried using Constance with Agnea's Arrow and Meteor, specifically to see if Emergent Magic has any effect?
-- I imagine it'll upgrade the Elemental Spells to their Elemental Essence counterparts, but since the above two spells have no element, I wonder if they have a "super-powered" version.
-- On the note of Emergent Magic, I wonder if there happens to be a T3 version of spells (Elemental Essence + Emergent Magic). 

I have tested Essence of Light with Emergent Magic and it has no effect. I imagine it acts the same way we know the Lord imbues work with the respective Essences, aka they don't. Haven't tested Agnea with EM but I doubt they interact. However, I do know that Essences interact with Range Master, so perhaps it makes Agnea bigger?

[Sire]

Just finished my 2nd run of Azure Gleam, doing the Kill Byleth route.
-- Overall, was a little disappointed as GW had a bit more story variance regarding the Spare/Kill Byleth paths. In hindsight, it makes sense for AG, but still.
-- I also think I may have soft-confirmed that Sparing/Killing Byleth doesn't matter for the ending epilogue variation. I do believe it has to do with recruiting everyone or not, but will unlikely test it myself as I want to master the classes on everybody using the Training Grounds to speed along the process.
-- More thoughts in the spoiler below.

Spoiler

For clarity, AG's Byleth decision comes in at Chapter 12, not Chapter 10 like SB and GW. So, AG has 2 chapters less to focus on the Spare/Kill Byleth variations.
-- I thought that losing Rodrigue, a playable character, would have more of an impact. Alas, it's the same as GW, a few unique cutscenes immediately, then some line variations during the main story and at camp.
-- That said, I did enjoy the cutscenes surrounding Rodrigue's death and the followup with Dimitri/Felix ("The Vow" cutscene). Even Shez showing up during the start was nice as I thought it was a nice parallel to Dimitri's torment (losing an ally and being unable to do nothing), but nothing really came of that.
-- It's a shame there's no Alois encounter like in GW, but it is what it is I guess.
== Overall, while there are some good scenes, it just surrounds the immediate event and then thereafter forgotten. At least with Claude and his route there are more deeper references with the kill variation, even though the main story beats still remain the same.

I will say, however, that I've been mostly skimming through dialogue (aside from "The Vow" scene), so I may have missed some of the variations. At 260 hours in, I'm starting to feel the burnout with trying to pay attention to all the line variations and the story. I can grind out the maps mindlessly just fine, but trying to find minor story variations I'm just done with...
-- For reference, I finished my first runs of Scarlet Blaze in 74 (15-20 of that was in the demo), Azure Gleam in 129, and Golden Wildfire in 173. There was some additional grinding in AG and GW outside of pure story missions.

Now to do a speedrun of AG to utilize the Training Grounds and try to master all classes on some of the Blue Lion characters. Man, trying to level up the exclusives are going to be a pain...
-- It doesn't help I try to main characters who have Despoil so I can toss on Balthus' Merc Whistle item on them to get more money, so characters without Despoil won't see much active use. It also sucks as I don't get to properly experience the character's playstyle with their unique personal as I'm replacing it with Balthus' for farming purposes...
-- The good news is that I'm almost done getting all the Relic/Divine/Agarthan weapons up to max MT, and I have a few good Zoltan weapons with good attributes that I'm also forging. (I stopped bothering with Brave weapons.)