When you realize that Edelgard is the only female lord not to make the cut.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

Byleth is the most objective choice of the 3H options because Byleth is not associated with any of the four routes. Picking any of Edelgard, Dimitri, or Claude but not the other two would have ... uh, caused some issues in the fanbase.

Also, I'd already restated this earlier this thread but I'll say it again because I think it's important. I'm more upset about female Corrin being here because neither of the Corrins were an objective choice. Female Corrin has forever been associated with Nohr and male Corrin with Hoshido. These are all deliberate choices IS made. If I'm annoyed at female Corrin being picked over male Corrin because I interpret it as yet more Nohr bias, that is because IS themselves has chosen to market f!Corrin as Nohr Corrin. She can no longer represent Fates as a whole or Hoshido, because she's so strongly associated with Nohr. If IS wanted a true neutral representative for Fates, they should've picked Azura.

Or they should have marketed Revelation with a hermaphrodite Corrin!

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

Or they could've given players the option to pick their preferred gender for Corrin and Byleth. What's the point of having an avatar for previous games if later spin-offs using that avatar are going to force a choice on me anyway?

Do we know that's not the case yet?

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

It wouldn't be the weirdest decision either. If we actually gave a shit about proper story-appropriate representation we should've gotten Alm not Celica, either of Eliwood or Hector over Lyn, and Chrom (or even Robin) over Lucina. But clearly the ladies were picked due to their lack of a Y chromosome because IS has never given us a solo female lord (or more than one at the same time) and Eirika is the only one who can claim to stand on equal ground with her male co-lord. Can you tell that I want a new FE game with no avatar and a solo female lord?

Like, there are a lot of things we could rightfully complain about regarding the choice of lords, but picking Byleth over Edelgard or any of the three lords is the sensible thing.

Honestly I feel like the biggest misstep was no Ephraim. Even though you're right in that Eirika is the closest to an equal shares lore out of the female characters, Ephraim just feels like he should be there due to a lack of lance wielders. Though it's funny I don't feel the same way about Hector and axes. I guess because at least Lyn can use bows while Eirika is just every sword lord in the series.

47 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

I'm of the mind that Byleth was the right 3H choice, but Azura would have been a better Fates choice.

There are definitely merits to Azura. Having a dancing Engage would probably let you do some fun galeforce like shenanigans, and more lance users to fight against the tide of swords is good too. But, on the other hand, Corrin has a lot going for them with dragon powers too. On the other other hand, that might not actually be as distinct as it naturally would be given the lord we have this time is another dragon, so Emblem Corrin having such powers could actually take away from Alear.

I actually have some similar mixed feelings in regards to Sothis, who I've thought could make a good neutral but surprise choice for Fodlan. More magic would be nice and we never truly got to play as Sothis in a real sense, only ever as a bonus character. She's also quite a blank slate in terms of what she can actually do in terms of skills and powers, letting her more easily fit into whatever niche is required. However, the one thing I just can't see her doing with that chibi body is being a brawler, which is the one thing we can actually count on Byleth to do.

[Sunwoo]

15 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Or they should have marketed Revelation with a hermaphrodite Corrin!

I can't even remember if they ever really marketed Revelation as its own thing XD;

15 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Do we know that's not the case yet?

I don't know if there's 100% confirmation yet, but I wouldn't be surprised. I feel that if we could change Corrin and Byleth's genders, they would have slipped in some footage or stills or m!Corrin or f!Byleth, or they would've put in a trailer scene showing that we can change their gender like in 3Hopes. If we get m!Corrin and f!Byleth at all, they'll probably just be option skins like in Warriors whereas in-story they have a definite gender.

16 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Honestly I feel like the biggest misstep was no Ephraim. Even though you're right in that Eirika is the closest to an equal shares lore out of the female characters, Ephraim just feels like he should be there due to a lack of lance wielders. Though it's funny I don't feel the same way about Hector and axes. I guess because at least Lyn can use bows while Eirika is just every sword lord in the series.

Putting Ephraim in the game instead of Eirika wouldn't have bothered me much outside my own personal bias, tbh. Ephraim and Eirika are on very equal standing in their own game, so I can see either as a reasonable pick. I could see them going with Eirika for better gender balance or Ephraim for better weapon variety. Which also brings up the issue that IS should really make lords that are not sword wielders, even they should realize that there are too swords amongst the lords and they should really do something about it.

[vanguard333]

On 11/23/2022 at 6:43 PM, Jotari said:

But most people aren't upset by Byleth as a choice.

In hindsight, I realize that I phrased my counterargument poorly. I didn't mean that people would be overwhelmingly upset with Byleth or anything like that; I meant that the overall reaction to the character would be more negative than that for the house leaders (i.e. that the response to Byleth would be between placid and negative, while the house leaders would at least get some hype). I'll admit that Byleth emblem certainly got a better reaction than I expected; the overwhelming response of placid dispassionate shrugs is better than I was expecting, though the reaction Byleth got in Smash Bros. Ultimate probably skewed my prediction. Does that make more sense?

Anyway, what did you think of my joke where I suggested that the real reason Edelgard wasn't picked was that her colour scheme is already the same that the emblems have when corrupted?

Edited November 25, 2022 by vanguard333

[genesis]

19 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

So... they instead went with the choice that would upset everyone? Seriously, I keep seeing Byleth referred to as the "safe" choice, but IS choosing Byleth isn't a choice that upsets the least amount of people; it's the choice that upsets the most amount of people because it's the "safe" choice; attempting to please everyone pleases no one.

 

In any case, with the most recent trailers showing that the emblems take on red and dark clothing when corrupted by evil magic, I think I figured out the real reason that Byleth was picked over Edelgard: Edelgard already wears red and dark clothing. How would they make an Edelgard Emblem look corrupted by evil magic? Make her look like Hegemon Edelgard?

I just see some Edelgard die hard fans upset with Byleth. Everybody else understand that Byleth is indeed the protagonist and that Edelgard is not the Canon route, therefore would make no sense having her representing Three Houses over Claude or Dimitri. 

The only choice that makes zero sense is Lucina over Chrom or Robin. And maybe Lyn over Hector or Eliwood, but Lyn is a lord on her own, so why not? 

Edited November 24, 2022 by genesis

[Jotari]

What the? I made a comment here earkier today responding to the laats two posts before the previous one. Musn't have went through. Maybe it's still saved on my computer.  I'll try posting it tomorrow.

[Seazas]

I'm happy with all the Emblem choices personally. From picks that better sell the game to a wide variety overall, as varied as FE's approach to lords tend to be after all. Byleth was optimal, Lyn was optimal, Celica was optimal, Eirika was optimal, etc.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Seazas

[vanguard333]

9 hours ago, genesis said:

I just see some Edelgard die hard fans upset with Byleth. Everybody else understand that Byleth is indeed the protagonist and that Edelgard is not the Canon route, therefore would make no sense having her representing Three Houses over Claude or Dimitri. 

I already retracted my statement earlier, admitting that it was poorly worded on my part and did not convey what I had meant it to convey.

I was trying to say that Byleth was the option that would be liked the least, not that it would be the most actively disliked.

[Jotari]

Oh yippie. That post I mentioned from yesterday survived.

Quote

I can't even remember if they ever really marketed Revelation as its own thing XD;

I don't know if there's 100% confirmation yet, but I wouldn't be surprised. I feel that if we could change Corrin and Byleth's genders, they would have slipped in some footage or stills or m!Corrin or f!Byleth, or they would've put in a trailer scene showing that we can change their gender like in 3Hopes. If we get m!Corrin and f!Byleth at all, they'll probably just be option skins like in Warriors whereas in-story they have a definite gender.

Putting Ephraim in the game instead of Eirika wouldn't have bothered me much outside my own personal bias, tbh. Ephraim and Eirika are on very equal standing in their own game, so I can see either as a reasonable pick. I could see them going with Eirika for better gender balance or Ephraim for better weapon variety. Which also brings up the issue that IS should really make lords that are not sword wielders, even they should realize that there are too swords amongst the lords and they should really do something about it.

I'm sure we'll be getting the other genders in some capacity. And, while I haven't seen any trailers after the first, I'm not really expecting the Emblems to individually have too much actual plot dedicated to them. At most it will be Marth having some story scenes with all the other characters regulated to some sort of paralogue each.

On 11/24/2022 at 12:31 PM, vanguard333 said:

In hindsight, I realize that I phrased my counterargument poorly. I didn't mean that people would be overwhelmingly upset with Byleth or anything like that; I meant that the overall reaction to the character would be more negative than that for the house leaders (i.e. that the response to Byleth would be between placid and negative, while the house leaders would at least get some hype). I'll admit that Byleth emblem certainly got a better reaction than I expected; the overwhelming response of placid dispassionate shrugs is better than I was expecting, though the reaction Byleth got in Smash Bros. Ultimate probably skewed my prediction.

Anyway, what did you think of my joke where I suggested that the real reason Edelgard wasn't picked was that her colour scheme is already the same that the emblems have when corrupted?

Nah, there would have been a way more negative reaction to a house lord. I think you also underestimate how well Byleth genuinely is liked. Not as much as the house lords, but it's not like they're considered a bad or unpopular character by the majority.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Jotari

[Seazas]

3 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I already retracted my statement earlier, admitting that it was poorly worded on my part and did not convey what I had meant it to convey.

I was trying to say that Byleth was the option that would be liked the least, not that it would be the most actively disliked.

Edelgard, Dimitri, and somewhat Claude have far more dedicated haters than Byleth. Edelgard would be the most disliked even if she'd have lots of popularity and positivity to balance it out. Byleth is neutral.

[Dark Holy Elf]

On 11/23/2022 at 5:19 PM, Jotari said:

Or they should have marketed Revelation with a hermaphrodite Corrin!

 

FYI, people with mixed sexual characteristics prefer the term "intersex".

8 hours ago, Seazas said:

I'm happy with all the Emblem choices personally. From picks that better sell the game to a wide variety overall, as varied as FE's approach to lords tend to be after all. Byleth was optimal, Lyn was optimal, Celica was optimal, Eirika was optimal, etc.

Honestly, I agree.

Gender balance matters, so Lyn, Eirika, Lucina, and Celica getting picked over their male counterparts of comparable importance is just sensible – it helps that they range from "very popular" to "obviously the most popular character in her own game". Byleth is a good, neutral choice. If you must have only one gender for Corrin/Byleth, then having one of each gender makes sense. (Although I do think that is a mistake — definitely agree with @Sunwoo that if you're going to have an avatar with gender choice, that should be preserved in later games... something which FEH, Warriors, and Three Hopes all managed, so if Engage doesn't go the same route, that'll feel lazy!)

On 11/23/2022 at 4:03 PM, Sunwoo said:

If we actually gave a shit about proper story-appropriate representation we should've gotten Alm not Celica, either of Eliwood or Hector over Lyn, and Chrom (or even Robin) over Lucina. But clearly the ladies were picked due to their lack of a Y chromosome because IS has never given us a solo female lord (or more than one at the same time) and Eirika is the only one who can claim to stand on equal ground with her male co-lord. Can you tell that I want a new FE game with no avatar and a solo female lord?

I'd be happy to see a solo female lord too, but as per my comments above, gender balance of the roster as is matters - we shouldn't get male-dominated rosters just because old FE games tended to be sexist.

I will say that Hector over Lyn would make no sense, though. Lyn's certainly more deserving than someone you need to literally beat the game before you can experience as a protagonist (and honestly I'd say Eliwood still feels like the main character of even Hector mode, but that's an aside). Eliwood over Lyn might make sense in a vacuum, but Eliwood's own relative lack of popularity combined with Lyn's very high popularity has always made Lyn as the primary FE7 representative (a role she has basically occupied in every FE crossover and arguably even Smash Bros.) feel like a no-brainer.

[Sunwoo]

29 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I'd be happy to see a solo female lord too, but as per my comments above, gender balance of the roster as is matters - we shouldn't get male-dominated rosters just because old FE games tended to be sexist.

I will say that Hector over Lyn would make no sense, though. Lyn's certainly more deserving than someone you need to literally beat the game before you can experience as a protagonist (and honestly I'd say Eliwood still feels like the main character of even Hector mode, but that's an aside). Eliwood over Lyn might make sense in a vacuum, but Eliwood's own relative lack of popularity combined with Lyn's very high popularity has always made Lyn as the primary FE7 representative (a role she has basically occupied in every FE crossover and arguably even Smash Bros.) feel like a no-brainer.

While I understand that gender balance is important and do agree with it to a degree, IS trying to gaslight me into believing that Celica or Lyn are as important in their games as Marth or Roy or Ike just makes me salty and it feels like a hollow gesture. Clearly they don't believe that a woman who isn't an avatar is worthy of having the sole responsibility of saving their world, or even that two or more women who are not avatars are worthy or that responsibility if there isn't a male present. But they also want to release female characters in spin-offs or as alts because they want the big money they think female characters will bring in.

I wouldn't consider that empowering for women, because it just feels like IS saying "nah, women can't be heroes without a MAN to be on their journey too, but that's okay because women just need to be pretty and sell well." It's actually the opposite of empowering.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

While I understand that gender balance is important and do agree with it to a degree, IS trying to gaslight me into believing that Celica or Lyn are as important in their games as Marth or Roy or Ike just makes me salty and it feels like a hollow gesture. Clearly they don't believe that a woman who isn't an avatar is worthy of having the sole responsibility of saving their world, or even that two or more women who are not avatars are worthy or that responsibility if there isn't a male present. But they also want to release female characters in spin-offs or as alts because they want the big money they think female characters will bring in.

I wouldn't consider that empowering for women, because it just feels like IS saying "nah, women can't be heroes without a MAN to be on their journey too, but that's okay because women just need to be pretty and sell well." It's actually the opposite of empowering.

To be fair to them, in their mainline series, since they've introduced Avatars things have proceeded more gender neutral. Chrom is more important than Lucina in Awakening's narrative, true, but that was also, like, ten years ago. In Fates we have a gender undetermined protagonist with a set female deuteragonist. Shadows of Valentia was locked into the plot of Gaiden, but they tried in their own way to give Celica more to do and more relevance equaling Alm (even if the execution was kind of left wanting). Three Houses is again a gender undetermined protagonist this time with one female and two males as deuteragonist, in addition the overall conflict is a struggle between two women and the player's spirit guide, Sothis, is a woman too (or at least more female than male given the whole god thing). In the spin offs, we have the first Warriors game where the two male and female protagonists are of equal standing (which is to say both are super bland and forgettable). Three Hopes has a gender indeterminate protagonist with the same set up of deuteragonists as before, only this time the spirit animal is a pretty much a completely genderless being. TMS and Heroes are definitely trying to sell themselves on their female characters though, with probably Heroes itself getting the most critique, as even though of the OCs we are introduced to one man and two women (if you can call Anna an OC), and every book thus far has come with an additional female protagonist for the year, Alfonse has always kind of been the focus. Well, more of a focus than Shareena, it varies from Book to Book, Books 2 and 5 kind of focused more on their guest star female while the others were more about Alfonse.

So all that is to say, instead of Fire Emblem being much of a "Women can't be heroes without a MAN on their journey" it's more "Heroes are characters of indeterminate gender, usually assisted by women (or in one case an agendered reflection of one's own self, or something)".

Edited November 25, 2022 by Jotari

[Rose482]

On 11/24/2022 at 3:27 AM, Fabulously Olivier said:

I'm of the mind that Byleth was the right 3H choice, but Azura would have been a better Fates choice.

Does IS even consider Azura a lord? Cause I don't think so, but of course they didn't have to make the rings lords only to begin with I guess. 

[genesis]

11 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I already retracted my statement earlier, admitting that it was poorly worded on my part and did not convey what I had meant it to convey.

I was trying to say that Byleth was the option that would be liked the least, not that it would be the most actively disliked.

I understand. But it's also the less controversial option as well. The other games didn't have this issue because there wasn't different lords in split routes (in Fates Corrin is the solo lord in all routes). There's some questionable choices like Lyn over Hector and Eliwood, and Celica over Alm, but huh waifus and there's no conflict of story between them.  Byleth is the only constant in all routes and the story follows him and his point of view so he is the protagonist, by narrative perspective would make no sense Edelgard being there, neither Claude or Dimitri. Also being popular doesn't make anything canon, or shouldn't make, but oh well Lucina is there instead of Chrom, so... 

Edited November 25, 2022 by genesis

[vanguard333]

8 hours ago, Seazas said:

Edelgard, Dimitri, and somewhat Claude have far more dedicated haters than Byleth. Edelgard would be the most disliked even if she'd have lots of popularity and positivity to balance it out. Byleth is neutral.

I outright said in the statement that you quoted that my argument was that Byleth is the least liked, not that they're the most hated, and you're responding by saying that the house leaders have more dedicated haters. Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?

 

1 hour ago, genesis said:

I understand. But it's also the less controversial option as well. The other games didn't have this issue because there wasn't different lords in split routes (in Fates Corrin is the solo lord in all routes). There's some questionable choices like Lyn over Hector and Eliwood, and Celica over Alm, but huh waifus and there's no conflict of story between them.  Byleth is the only constant in all routes and the story follows him and his point of view so he is the protagonist, by narrative perspective would make no sense Edelgard being there, neither Claude or Dimitri. Also being popular doesn't make anything canon, or shouldn't make, but oh well Lucina is there instead of Chrom, so... 

In the case of Lyn and Lucina, they were probably picked because they're what TV Tropes call Breakout Characters: characters that became far more popular and well-known than their creators intended/anticipated, and their creators caught on to their popularity, so they became more prominent and are placed everywhere.

As for Celica, I like to think she's in this game as an apology for getting overshadowed by Alm despite duality and the two of them learning to work together being the supposed central theme of the game. I doubt that's the actual reason (the more likely reason being that she and Micaiah are the only lords who have magic), but I like to think it is the reason.

Going back to what I said about breakout characters, the funny thing is that Edelgard easily could've been one; almost everyone who plays Three Houses comes away feeling something about Edelgard that sticks in their minds and makes them remember her, and while there's a sizeable portion of the fanbase that actively dislikes her, there is no question that she is an extremely popular and well-known character; likely more popular and well-known than IS anticipated. The only thing that hasn't happened yet for her to become a breakout character is for IS to make her more prominent.

 

10 hours ago, Jotari said:

Nah, there would have been a way more negative reaction to a house lord. I think you also underestimate how well Byleth genuinely is liked. Not as much as the house lords, but it's not like they're considered a bad or unpopular character by the majority.

I don't think Byleth is unpopular by any means; I just think the majority doesn't really think strongly about Byleth. The response to Byleth being an emblem hasn't been one of excitement, but more of a shrug. Sure, one could definitely argue that a character having more haters is a more negative reaction even if that character also has more people that love the character; I'm just not sure that the amount of people who would actively dislike one of the house lords being picked vs the amount of people who would be excited at that house lord being picked would be enough to make it a more negative reaction than an overwhelming, "...Okay, I guess".

[Dark Holy Elf]

7 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

While I understand that gender balance is important and do agree with it to a degree, IS trying to gaslight me into believing that Celica or Lyn are as important in their games as Marth or Roy or Ike just makes me salty and it feels like a hollow gesture. Clearly they don't believe that a woman who isn't an avatar is worthy of having the sole responsibility of saving their world, or even that two or more women who are not avatars are worthy or that responsibility if there isn't a male present. But they also want to release female characters in spin-offs or as alts because they want the big money they think female characters will bring in.

I wouldn't consider that empowering for women, because it just feels like IS saying "nah, women can't be heroes without a MAN to be on their journey too, but that's okay because women just need to be pretty and sell well." It's actually the opposite of empowering.

Well, keep in mind that the italicized is the Intsys is 1990-2003, and the bolded is the Intsys is 2017-present. If they were still writing games where the male voices are clearly the most important and then promoting the unimportant female characters from those games in their spinoffs, I would definitely very much agree that this is hypocritical. As is, you can perhaps side-eye SoV a bit, but that is held back by being a remake, and otherwise they have been trying to have more balanced gender roles in their recent games. (You can still quibble some things about the recent games, to be sure, but i think the effort is clearly there.)

Otherwise, because of Intsys's past, I feel like they don't have any perfect option here. Yes, if you just went by the most important character of each game, you'd probably have Alm, Eliwood, and Chrom, resulting in a 9-3 split. But in 2022 that's a bad look. Saying "look everyone, we were kiiinda sexist in the early days of this series" is (a) probably not something Intsys wants to draw attention to and (b) would not mollify anyone pissed off by such a roster today (and rest assured, such a roster would piss a lot of people off!). Toss in the high popularity of Celica, Lyn, and Lucina (all of whom finished ahead of any of their male counterparts in CYL1 / CYL2 in Celica's case) and I feel like Intsys's current choices were very sensible.

[Seazas]

It's not about pushing Lyn or Eirika as the next Ike. It's about having a varied roster of actual value than a sausage generic sword lord fest. If they have to pick one per game, Alm and Eliwood over Celica and Lyn is very lame. Different faces are better.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Seazas

[Jotari]

15 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I outright said in the statement that you quoted that my argument was that Byleth is the least liked, not that they're the most hated, and you're responding by saying that the house leaders have more dedicated haters. Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?

 

In the case of Lyn and Lucina, they were probably picked because they're what TV Tropes call Breakout Characters: characters that became far more popular and well-known than their creators intended/anticipated, and their creators caught on to their popularity, so they became more prominent and are placed everywhere.

As for Celica, I like to think she's in this game as an apology for getting overshadowed by Alm despite duality and the two of them learning to work together being the supposed central theme of the game. I doubt that's the actual reason (the more likely reason being that she and Micaiah are the only lords who have magic), but I like to think it is the reason.

Going back to what I said about breakout characters, the funny thing is that Edelgard easily could've been one; almost everyone who plays Three Houses comes away feeling something about Edelgard that sticks in their minds and makes them remember her, and while there's a sizeable portion of the fanbase that actively dislikes her, there is no question that she is an extremely popular and well-known character; likely more popular and well-known than IS anticipated. The only thing that hasn't happened yet for her to become a breakout character is for IS to make her more prominent.

 

I don't think Byleth is unpopular by any means; I just think the majority doesn't really think strongly about Byleth. The response to Byleth being an emblem hasn't been one of excitement, but more of a shrug. Sure, one could definitely argue that a character having more haters is a more negative reaction even if that character also has more people that love the character; I'm just not sure that the amount of people who would actively dislike one of the house lords being picked vs the amount of people who would be excited at that house lord being picked would be enough to make it a more negative reaction than an overwhelming, "...Okay, I guess".

Im excited for Byleth, as I'm hoping they're one of the only potential characters with a potential to use Brawling. Just because no one is shouting about how excited they are for a character doesn't mean nobody is. How maby people are cheering Leif's pesence when Jugdral easily could have been represented with Seliph and Sigurd together? Not many, but that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of people happy to see him there. Don't misake the vocal minority for the feelings of the group. Byleth is a very popular Fire Emblem character.

[vanguard333]

10 hours ago, Jotari said:

I'm excited for Byleth, as I'm hoping they're one of the only potential characters with a potential to use Brawling. Just because no one is shouting about how excited they are for a character doesn't mean nobody is. How many people are cheering Leif's pesence when Jugdral easily could have been represented with Seliph and Sigurd together? Not many, but that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of people happy to see him there. Don't mistake the vocal minority for the feelings of the group. Byleth is a very popular Fire Emblem character.

I understand.

In the case of Sigurd and Leif representing Jugdral and not Sigurd and Seliph, I'm pretty sure the reason for it is to represent both Genealogy and Thracia; Sigurd and Seliph would only be representing Genealogy. Both Ike and Micaiah represent Tellius so that both Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn are represented (which is one reason I'm a little saddened by Ike having his Radiant Dawn appearance instead of his Path of Radiance appearance), and both Roy and Lyn represent... I think its name is Elibe (please correct me if I'm wrong) so that both games are represented. It's cool that they're using Leif, but I think his presence was kind-of inevitable for this reason.

So yeah, I think you have a point in that more vocal excitement is probably proportional to how unexpected the character is rather than how well-liked they are.

[Safy]

Byleth is the best choice 3H, no doubt about that. And by the virtue of being a 3H character, he's popular by default, at least more than characters like Sigurd and Leif.

20 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Both Ike and Micaiah represent Tellius so that both Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn are represented (which is one reason I'm a little saddened by Ike having his Radiant Dawn appearance instead of his Path of Radiance appearance)

Yeah, I'm sad too that it's RD Ike instead of PoR... it's a pretty weird decision, honestly, since now we get two RD characters instead of one PoR and one RD. And as I don't like RD Ike, I guess I'm actually a bit annoyed.

On other fronts, I'm happy to see Alm nowhere in sight. Go Celica!

[Jotari]

On 11/26/2022 at 5:47 AM, Seazas said:

It's not about pushing Lyn or Eirika as the next Ike. It's about having a varied roster of actual value than a sausage generic sword lord fest. If they have to pick one per game, Alm and Eliwood over Celica and Lyn is very lame. Different faces are better.

If we're talking weapon variation (which honestly I think should be the biggest focus) then Hector and Ephraim would have a lot nore going for them than Lyn and (especially) Eirika.

12 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I understand.

In the case of Sigurd and Leif representing Jugdral and not Sigurd and Seliph, I'm pretty sure the reason for it is to represent both Genealogy and Thracia; Sigurd and Seliph would only be representing Genealogy. Both Ike and Micaiah represent Tellius so that both Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn are represented (which is one reason I'm a little saddened by Ike having his Radiant Dawn appearance instead of his Path of Radiance appearance), and both Roy and Lyn represent... I think its name is Elibe (please correct me if I'm wrong) so that both games are represented. It's cool that they're using Leif, but I think his presence was kind-of inevitable for this reason.

So yeah, I think you have a point in that more vocal excitement is probably proportional to how unexpected the character is rather than how well-liked they are.

Oh indeed, that's precisely the reason Leif was in, but I was never really saying it should be another way. But if it were Sigurd and Seliph, then people could easily rationalize it as the two generations being represented (of which Thracia and all its characters are part of the second gen).  Course they also could have pulled a Warriors 1 and just said screw the old games, we're only focusing on titles released after 2013. All Jugdral friends are no doubt delighted they didn't go that route, but fee are actually going to express that relief. Because for things like this people aee much more inclined to complain than praise. Which is ny point. A lot of people are happy with Byleth, of that I'm quite certain.

[Seazas]

21 hours ago, Jotari said:

If we're talking weapon variation (which honestly I think should be the biggest focus) then Hector and Ephraim would have a lot nore going for them than Lyn and (especially) Eirika.

Oh indeed, that's precisely the reason Leif was in, but I was never really saying it should be another way. But if it were Sigurd and Seliph, then people could easily rationalize it as the two generations being represented (of which Thracia and all its characters are part of the second gen).  Course they also could have pulled a Warriors 1 and just said screw the old games, we're only focusing on titles released after 2013. All Jugdral friends are no doubt delighted they didn't go that route, but fee are actually going to express that relief. Because for things like this people aee much more inclined to complain than praise. Which is ny point. A lot of people are happy with Byleth, of that I'm quite certain.

Lyn and Eirika are simply better choices because they round out the lord count than a male dominated mess.

[DefyingFates]

On 11/26/2022 at 4:49 PM, Safy said:

And as I don't like RD Ike, I guess I'm actually a bit annoyed.

As someone who also hates Ike's portrayal in RD but loves him in PoR, I feel your pain. That said, it does make more sense to take a character from their end of their story instead of one in the middle of it if they're meant to be a legendary warrior/ role model even if he stole full credit for a group effort. If anything I wish they'd made his Brave outfit his "main" one so we could at least have that plausible deniability to shield ourselves from that fact.

On 11/27/2022 at 4:38 AM, Jotari said:

If we're talking weapon variation (which honestly I think should be the biggest focus) then Hector and Ephraim would have a lot nore going for them than Lyn and (especially) Eirika.

Even as an Eirika fan, I agree that Hector and Ephraim would have been more logical choices, since you could have swapped at least one of those guys in by making Byleth female and kept the balanced gender count. Naturally I would have voted Lyn out, since Eirika is at least relevant to her game's main plot.

BUT, moving onto a more positive note: I think FEH has opened the door for these characters to be a lot more diverse than they were canonically. Eirika benefits the most from this as someone who can now use lances and magic, opening her up to all the Sacred Twins except Garm, but I think other Lords can be more interesting as a result of this too*. Heck, Lyn was all but retconned into a Bow Lord in FEH and uses primarily bows from what we've seen of her in Engage too.

* Roy's used bows and axes in alts. I know Armads is more relevant to FE7 though. Marth has also used bows and axes too: he could get the other Regalia to go with Mercurius?

[Jotari]

9 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

As someone who also hates Ike's portrayal in RD but loves him in PoR, I feel your pain. That said, it does make more sense to take a character from their end of their story instead of one in the middle of it if they're meant to be a legendary warrior/ role model even if he stole full credit for a group effort. If anything I wish they'd made his Brave outfit his "main" one so we could at least have that plausible deniability to shield ourselves from that fact.

I actually prefer Radiant Dawn Ike to Path of Radiance Ike, but thinking on it, yeah, I think I would have preferred Ranger Ike here. He is meant to be repping for Path of Radiance after all. And it's not like we don't see much of Vanguard Ike now adays. Most things he gets into, with the exception of Brawl, seems to go with the later design (and Lord Ike hasn't even got into Heroes yet, I think). That being said, I can think of one reason to go Vanguard, and that's so they can have him use Urvan. Course Ike not having axes in Path of Radiance was a mistake to begin with imo, so I doubt anyone would care is he used axes with his POR design(s).

9 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Even as an Eirika fan, I agree that Hector and Ephraim would have been more logical choices, since you could have swapped at least one of those guys in by making Byleth female and kept the balanced gender count. Naturally I would have voted Lyn out, since Eirika is at least relevant to her game's main plot.

BUT, moving onto a more positive note: I think FEH has opened the door for these characters to be a lot more diverse than they were canonically. Eirika benefits the most from this as someone who can now use lances and magic, opening her up to all the Sacred Twins except Garm, but I think other Lords can be more interesting as a result of this too*. Heck, Lyn was all but retconned into a Bow Lord in FEH and uses primarily bows from what we've seen of her in Engage too.

* Roy's used bows and axes in alts. I know Armads is more relevant to FE7 though. Marth has also used bows and axes too: he could get the other Regalia to go with Mercurius?

I reckon they will play around with weapons a bit more, though I actually don't really expect anything for Marth beyond swords, strange as it would be to have just one Regalia.

[DefyingFates]

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

I reckon they will play around with weapons a bit more, though I actually don't really expect anything for Marth beyond swords, strange as it would be to have just one Regalia.

To be fair, even though I wrote that comment in the first place, I don't really see Marth using non-swords either. Roy I'm more mixed on simply because it'd be weird to have two Emblems (both infantry-locked at that) who only use swords. Marth has the excuse(?) of being the first Lord and all three of his weapons seen so far being Prfs.

(But hey, I'm not against him pulling Gradvius out of thin air down the line either.)