The treatment of VA’s in the industry at large

[Perkilator]

Recently, Hellena Taylor, the original VA for Bayonetta, sent out this tweet:

This isn’t even the first time this is happened within the span of a month, what with Crunchyroll deciding to move ahead with the Mob Psycho 100 Dub without Kyle McCarley, the original VA for Mob, instead of discussing unions with him.

I think between all this and the over-abundance of celebrity VA’s in animated movies, this just feels like complete disrespect for professional VA’s in the entertainment industry at large.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

4 minutes ago, Perkilator said:

Recently, Hellena Taylor, the original VA for Bayonetta, sent out this tweet:

Not sure if it's just me, but the tweet doesn't seem to be showing up.

8 minutes ago, Perkilator said:

I think between all this and the over-abundance of celebrity VA’s in animated movies, this just feels like complete disrespect for professional VA’s in the entertainment industry at large.

This may be ancilliary to the original point, but honestly the "silver screen barrier" is nothing new for voice actors. Sure, they might star in multiple seasons of animated programs, but voice roles on the big screen are treated as something else entirely. Names like "Tom Kenny", "Kevin Michael Richardson", and "Grey Delisle" signal some of the most ubiquitous and multi-talented people in the industry... but you can't put them on a movie poster and expect Joe and Janet Six-Pack to know who they are. And the picture gets even worse for rising talents, like Laura Bailey, Robbie Draymond, or Erika Mendez. It's a right shame, but it's mostly just market forces and industry self-segregation to blame.

[BrightBow]

Doesn't show up for me either. Let me try.

 

[Etrurian emperor]

What I find so strange is that stories like this is usually about Japanese studios treating their western voices like dirt, while in Japan VA's are so intrinsically tied to a character that they push dying 80 year old men into the recording booth to go record some voices for the character, or kill off a character when its VA passes away.

But while they have this extreme loyalty to their domestic talent they also do things like replacing the long running voice of Snake just to get a more famous name, not even bothering to call Troy Baker to record some new lines, typically underpay their Va's and now seemingly bullying Bayonetta's voice actress in turning her character down.g 

[AnonymousSpeed]

>Be hired for a job

>Barely qualifies as work

>Complete the job for agreed upon pay

>Guy who hired me uses his own money to hire someone else next time

>"omg so much disrespect"

Y'know I say that but I'm still a little miffed they recast all of Mel Blanc's roles.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Taylor is a not-insignificant part of the success of Bayonetta, a game series which managed to punch above the weight class of its niche genre* because of how memorable and likable its protagonist is. Bayonetta 3 could reasonably be expected to sell over a million copies. I think Taylor was well within her rights to ask for a bit larger share of such a large pie. This is how it works in other fields, typically. To take an obvious related example (voice work of established characters), the main actors on the Simpsons earn six-digit figures per episode, because they're a large part of the success of those characters and the show.

I'll await Nintendo/Platinum's response (if they even give one and don't do the usual corporate thing of pretending nothing happened and hoping it blows over) but for now it sure looks like they refused to pay Taylor what she was worth and then hired someone else out of stubborness/spite. It's a pretty terrible look and reflects the gross amount of power studios have and how little they share with the workers that make their product a success.

For the record, I loved Bayonetta 1 and liked 2 a lot as well. I was definitely going to buy this game day one. Now... probably won't? I wish this would send the message I hope it does, but honestly I have my doubts that it will.

*Before anyone gives me grief for this comment, let me emphasize: I'm a fan of this genre. You know I'm right.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I'm of several minds on this story, but admit I know little of the particulars of the acting industry. About a decade ago I would have been able to tell you I'm acquainted with at least three voice actors of officially released video games, but a discussion on exact pay had never come up. It was always "take whatever jobs you can, hope the finished product gets released so you can put it on your resume". I do think $4000 sounds like a pretty outrageous paycheck, however. Bayonetta is a successful enough franchise to be on its third entry and benefits from Triple A marketing. Bayonetta's personality comes through very clearly in the vocal performance. And when they switched from Taylor to Jennifer Hale, my impression was "ooooh, they've got a lot of money to throw around". It's hard to imagine Hale accepted the same or similar amount for the role. She's Commander Shepherd, and the last time I recall her faking a british accent was Naomi Hunter of Metal Gear Solid. That's 25 years of high profile voice work that I can name off the top of my head. So going in this new direction for Bayonetta had to have been a carefully considered move on the part of Platinum Games

Calling for a boycott however is a pretty extreme reaction. I understand being upset at the pay, but she did turn them down in the end. Other voice actors have kept their stories on lost roles more professional than this. There may of course be more to the story that might never be disclosed, and I would ultimately prefer if she stayed on, but this still feels gross to me. I think it reflects poorly on both parties.

To me, the ugliest VA story is Konami recasting for the Silent Hill 2 and 3 Remasters. They determined it would be cheaper to pay for new voice talent than to pay a standard fare on residuals (residuals for voicework, as far as I've heard, are still fairly uncommon in the video game industry. Perhaps even unheard of in the Japanese industry, since every case I can think of is a Japanese game). So the product they put out just has a bunch of Persona voice actors instead of the original talent. I just can't imagine that was factually cheaper however.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Zapp Branniglenn

[Etrurian emperor]

56 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

 I do think $4000 sounds like a pretty outrageous paycheck, however. Bayonetta is a successful enough franchise to be on its third entry and benefits from Triple A marketin

I'm actually not sure if Bayonetta has ever been a successful franchise. Well regarded and beloved by its niche fanbase but not really successful.  The first game's sales were such that Sega would have killed the franchise if Nintendo hadn't came to the rescue. And due to being on the Wii-U I don't think Bayonetta 2 sold that well either. I always got the impression Nintendo bankrolled the game at a loss not to profit off the game itself, but to give the struggling Wii-U more hardcore titles.

Which isn't to say 4000 isn't a ridiculous paycheck of course.

I think its very possible that Platinum pulled a Kojima and deliberately pushed Tayler out to replace her with a bigger name. Given the video game industry's treatment of voice actors I even think its the most likely scenario.

However its also possible that Platinum couldn't afford to pay her. The studio has been struggling financially for quite some time now, and apparently would have gone bankrupt without Nier Automata a while back. And recently Platinum suffered a pretty big flop in Babylon's fall. I wouldn't be surprised if the studio is on its last lag financially. 

That said I still think corporate greed is the likelier option. Platinum having to cut cost might be true but Nintendo must be bankrolling Bayonetta to some extend, so if things were so dire that they couldn't even afford a voice actor then they'd have stepped in. That and I think Hale's probably a lot more expensive than Taylor ever was. 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

3 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I'm actually not sure if Bayonetta has ever been a successful franchise. Well regarded and beloved by its niche fanbase but not really successful.  

okay relatively successful. Bayonetta 2 is currently the only Sequel in Platinum's portfolio. And Platinum loves mentioning how they'd love a chance to a sequel to just about everything they've developed. So Bayonetta getting picked out of the lot to be funded by somebody implies inherent success. Not to mention brand awareness from Smash Bros.

Quote

And recently Platinum suffered a pretty big flop in Babylon's fall. I wouldn't be surprised if the studio is on its last lag financially. 

Platinum were paid for a job and they did it. The only one potentially out some money for that game is Square, as the publisher. Though the finished product certainly does reflect poorly on Platinum as a developer. 

Quote

I think its very possible that Platinum pulled a Kojima and deliberately pushed Tayler out to replace her with a bigger name.

This is my guess as well. The idea that $4000 being all they're willing to pay for the titular role is just ludicrous

[Dark Holy Elf]

The thing that makes me doubt that theory is that... surely any gains that could be made by Jennifer Hale being a bigger name would be more than offset by people upset that the Bayonetta VA they recognize is gone. I suspect they wanted Taylor gone, but I don't think getting a bigger name was really the reason (or at least not the only one).

[joevar]

the only thing i want to add: they way VA works and their treatment in Japan and the rest of the world seems to differ greatly. maybe because independent VA in Japan is rarity, because most are backed by agency. while in the west it is the opposite..

its very rare to have a VA really associated with their voice roles outside their respective product in the west. in Japan VA even have their own programs just like a real celebrities, the VA is another "face" of the character they play sometimes. i dont think anyone outside bayonetta fans really care who she was before

i brought this up because its a game made in Japan. and we almost never heard this problem there afaik. or maybe i just dont care, or Agency backed VA has attorney to solve it themselves without twitter help

just FYI really.

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8 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

However its also possible that Platinum couldn't afford to pay her. The studio has been struggling financially for quite some time now, and apparently would have gone bankrupt without Nier Automata a while back. And recently Platinum suffered a pretty big flop in Babylon's fall. I wouldn't be surprised if the studio is on its last lag financially. 

isnt her replacement offered bigger paycheck? her replacement Jennifer Hale is even more bigger VA than hellena, way bigger even... which should raise an eyebrow if Platinum want to cut cost by selecting her. should have pick some obscure rising star instead

Edited October 16, 2022 by joevar

[Jotari]

Would I care if they recast a live action actor between movies or tv seasons in a live action show? Eh, depends on how much I enjoyed the performance. Which in the case of Bayonetta, I did. This does happen outside of voice acting too. I find myself agreeing with Anonymous Speed the most. Job finishes when the job finishes...still a bit miffed though. I think I care more about Jeremy Irons not being in the Lion King remake, and he's part of the encroachment of film actors on voice acting (not that that movie was ever going to get my respect)!

[AnonymousSpeed]

16 hours ago, Jotari said:

I find myself agreeing with Anonymous Speed the most.

Ayo, big thanks for that, Champ. You have a blessed day.