Let's talk about the paralogues (especially if you haven't played the game yet)

[Jotari]

So I'm kind of curious to know what people who haven't played Engage would speculate for this question. Or people who are half way through and haven't seen it yet. Any way, the way paralogues work in this game is that each of the Emblems get a paralogue dedicated to them. Said Paralogue is a map from a previous game in the series, with each one, at least in theory, being a place of great significance to the character in question. In other words, it's a best of Fire Emblem maps  justified by story.

So, my question. Which maps do you think they chose, and which ones would you like to see chosen? What do you think are the most emotionally resonant points in each of the lords stories and which maps work most for representing that point?

The maps the game actually went with are as follows, along with my opinions on them.

Spoiler

Marth-Altea castle. Makes sense, it's the emotional high point of his journey for him. I thought maybe Marth Embarks could have worked too, but I'm glad they didn't choose that since we got it a bunch in Awakening already.

Celica-Seabound Shrine Zombie Dragon Fight. This is a particularly weird one in terms of character justification. It's an optional map in Gaiden that has no major significance to Celica...but I guess the question is what other map can  you choose, since Celica's maps all have a reputation of sucking ass. I think Greith's Cathedral or Mila Temple might have worked better emotionally, but the Seabound Shrine does work mechanically. As they wanted to bring back the summoner idea and it's a nice wide open area to play around with it.

Sigurd-Chalphy Castle. Though since it's not a tile for tile recreation I actually had a bit of a hard time seeing it. I think it's mostly actually based on Chapter 10 rather than the prologue, as you approach from the south. Given Genealogy's map sizes there was never going to be a great way of faithfully doing Sigurd's paralogue. Though Emotionally I really would have loved to see them set it in Barhara as there's really little more emotional than freaking dying. Though in terms of character any of his five chapters, except maybe Selisea could have been easily justified.

Leif-The River Crossing, otherwise known as the Reinhardt Chapter. Leif slightly triggered me by completely shafting Cowen when mentioning the generals he went up against, but the game's fan service brought me back by having an armoured knight referencing him, even if it meant giving a generic unit weapons it can't use purely for the sake of it.

Roy-The Shrine of Seals. I've gone on record saying this was a great map in Binding Blade, but I felt they recreated it a bit too faithfully here. Meaning it was kind of easy compared to the other paralogues since you have so many more toys to play around with compared to Binding Blade. But, eh, I guess the other option would be an endless slog which a lot of the other paralogues turn into.

Lyn-Rather hilariously, Lyn doesn't get a Blazing Blade map, she gets a Blinding Blade one. More specifically the Gaiden where you get Mulagir. I mean, it does make sense, as it's Sacae and Lyn's home, but it's a bit funny she didn't even get a map from her own game. I suppose what could they actually pick from her own game, none of the Lyn mode maps are particularly iconic outside of the first one (which is barely a map) and she has little emotional resonance with the rest of the maps in her own game. So, Roy's optional chapter in an optional route it is XD

Eirika-The final battle against Lyon. Feels like a little bit of a cheat to use a final map as an emotionally important chapter, but, eh, it was either that or pulling a Marth and making it Renais castle. I guess they could have went with outside of the temple in Darkling Woods, you know the chapter with the lake in the middle. It's a bit more circuitous, but I think it's a more interesting map overall than the temple. A forest also feels more realistic to pop up in another world compared to a huge ass temple just sitting there that no one's using for anything and the characters go to randomly.

Ike-Got the defense chapter right after Greil's death, which, yeah, that makes a tonne of sense as the lowest moment of his life. It's also the chapter they used in Awakening DLC a bunch. In this fight you play the role of the mercenaries, I think I'd rather Ike remained in his role and it was you trying to play his defensive chapter with powerful allies.

Micaiah-3-13, Mickey vs Ike. Like Ike she plays the role of the invader leaving you on the defense again. 3-13 does make sense for her, but I really wish they'd given you an allied archer 😞

Lucina-Arena Ferox, her first battle with Chrom. A bit funny having a chapter where she was your enemy and not one where she was playable, but as a first meeting of Chrom it was important to her. And not nearly as weird as Lyn getting one of Roy's maps.

Corrin-The field where he made his choice who to fight with. A bit obvious in retrospect and a nice neutral choice between all the routes. Also one of the most believable that it could be found in another world given it's just a random field.

Byleth-The Holy Tomb. The most unbelievable it would just be randomly chilling in another world, as it's a huge ass underground room. Still a fun map because Byleth tries to steal the Crest Stone.

 

[Anathaco]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Spoiler

Leif-The River Crossing, otherwise known as the Reinhardt Chapter. Leif slightly triggered me by completely shafting Cowen when mentioning the generals he went up against, but the game's fan service brought me back by having an armoured knight referencing him, even if it meant giving a generic unit weapons it can't use purely for the sake of it.

 

Ok I was wondering what that guy’s deal was lmao

Anyway, for the games I’ve actually played and remember well enough to comment on

Spoiler

Lyn: I have 0 idea honestly, the closest thing I can remember of a legit character moment for her was the boat scene with Hector.

Actually, I’m gonna say the Dread Island map where you fight Uhai. Mainly because I like the map, though I feel like a masochist for recommending a fog of war map. Though I think it’s a fairly significant moment for her as well, to meet one of her own people only for them to be on completely opposite sides. At least it’s the closest thing I can think of.

Lucina: honestly I completely agree with the arena map

Corrin: same here, the branch of fate map is really the only choice.

Celica: I honestly am so surprised to realise it isn’t the Mila temple. It definitely should have been IMO

Byleth: Gronder probably would have been a way too obvious choice, I’d say the Holy Tomb is a good alternative.

 

[Jotari]

24 minutes ago, Anathaco said:

Ok I was wondering what that guy’s deal was lmao

Anyway, for the games I’ve actually played and remember well enough to comment on

  Hide contents

Lyn: I have 0 idea honestly, the closest thing I can remember of a legit character moment for her was the boat scene with Hector.

Actually, I’m gonna say the Dread Island map where you fight Uhai. Mainly because I like the map, though I feel like a masochist for recommending a fog of war map. Though I think it’s a fairly significant moment for her as well, to meet one of her own people only for them to be on completely opposite sides. At least it’s the closest thing I can think of.

Lucina: honestly I completely agree with the arena map

Corrin: same here, the branch of fate map is really the only choice.

Celica: I honestly am so surprised to realise it isn’t the Mila temple. It definitely should have been IMO

Byleth: Gronder probably would have been a way too obvious choice, I’d say the Holy Tomb is a good alternative.

 

Retooling a fog of war chapter as a non fog of war chapter wouldn't be the worst approach to something like this. You do have to balance between providing fan service by reliving the experience, and not having a redundant experience by just rehashing the exact same map. If I were to look at Blazing Blade in isolation of Lyn, I would say the two most memorable maps from it are the final with Nergal's morphs and Night of Farewells, the Nino and Jaffar chapter. The later in particular could be a good of rehabilitating a map, as it's memorable, but also considered kind of a terrible map. So redoing it without fog of war and with an optional condition to save green units instead of mandatory could make it be more palatable.

[joevar]

can someone who already finish the game comment on it a bit?

if yes (only contain slight spoiler):

Spoiler

played on hard and not above the expected level.

Marth: altea castle,.. its THE Altea Castle. its significant for Marth, enough said. but i cant remember the map being that hard. courtesy of so many unit being a backup class Hero they can overwhelm you for just being there stacked with each other. truly a solid player strategy that they turn against you (abusing the chain attacks). 

Celica: its not significant enough that i remember the detail from Echoes, but seems still hold importance since Celica talk about Mila here. As for maps itself.. a lot of the maps in Echoes or rather Celica routes can be worse than this.. so i guess its okay with them putting summoner and reference to meeting dragon type for the first time iirc.

Sigurd: didnt play the game, cant comment on the story. Gameplay tho, somehow its fun and unexpectedly hilarious considering Sigurd just rush to his death with his super movement. giving you optional challenge of actually clearing the enemy on the opposite of the bridge while enduring Sigurd attack. not to emntion they kinda choke me at the bridge opening, and ganged upon the unit both with phys. & mag atk

Leif: didnt play the game, cant comment on the story. the maps seem to favor turtling at first.. but theres tempting runaway unit that carry dropable.. so Rescue-Warp strat really come at play here. and like Sigurd, Leif just going to greet our army before reaching near the opposite castle. once i stopped rushing, its become much more manageable. and the stationary enemy can be cleared by warping someone behind enemy lines while baiting leif in the middle map

Roy: A very good choice between gameplay and story. its all out war, Roy got his toughest challenge yet, and the maps has the most ambush spawn in the entire game iirc. Actual result? disappointing... this is the only map where i dont spend even one rewind, didnt use battle save, didnt have to retry , no one dies. A perfect clean run. why is that bad for me? well the "ambush spawn" becomes regular reinforcement, and even the amount of it get slashed almost half. a lot of ambush spawn below the map just didnt appear. Either that or i've become too good at that map as a fan of FE6.

Lyn: weird choice. but something that i can guess: Mulagir. Lyn never touched mulagir in FE7, but IS keep associating it with her. Not to mention the map is one where we got Mulagir iirc. a nasty map if you got careless or takes too much time the reinforcement will sweep you. But it is Sacae map alright. other Sacae map dont have this kind of challenge afaik.

Eirika: final map, it is emotional for Eirika and provide fair challenge, altho no much at this point in time you unlock it.

Ike: A challenging map both in original and in the recreation. The first challenge for Ike in terms of management, a fitting trial for Alear

Micaiah: didnt play the game, cant comment on the story. gameplay side, its a.. okay? all those stationary weapon dont serve any purpose in the end

Lucina: Arena Ferox is indeed an interesting story point in Awakening. A story moment thats very important for Lucina. as for the map.. the easiest & shortest might be the word.

Corrin: an actual high point in Fates story, the torment of choosing sides is a very emotional story beat. so the map is fitting for trial. the maps itself is kinda easy being early game .

Byleth: the moment of truth in 3Houses. the trial even include an Axe armor knight, Halberdier, and Wyvern knight near the end that have 2 bar of health. must be referencing the trio or maybe the actual enemy in the original map, or both. added smol challenge for protecting all crystal is neat, altho the reward is so-so lol. A good one

all the map clearly have gone through strict screening they represent interesting point of the OG game.. except Lyn lol

if not.. then please ignore the spoiler above

[Anathaco]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Retooling a fog of war chapter as a non fog of war chapter wouldn't be the worst approach to something like this. You do have to balance between providing fan service by reliving the experience, and not having a redundant experience by just rehashing the exact same map. If I were to look at Blazing Blade in isolation of Lyn, I would say the two most memorable maps from it are the final with Nergal's morphs and Night of Farewells, the Nino and Jaffar chapter. The later in particular could be a good of rehabilitating a map, as it's memorable, but also considered kind of a terrible map. So redoing it without fog of war and with an optional condition to save green units instead of mandatory could make it be more palatable.

True on all counts. I’m only up to like chapter 19 myself but I’ve noticed how few green unit maps there’ve been so far, basically just Jean’s paralogue and Chapter 12 off the top of my head. Making Lyn’s paralogue a slightly fairer redo of Battle Before Dawn would fix that up, while also adding to the nostalgia/trauma of FE7 players everywhere.

[Florete]

Blazing Blade's Ch 10 definitely could have worked for Lyn. It's where she fights her own personal final boss and takes back her...kingdom? And afterwards she meets her only remaining living family for the first time.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, joevar said:

can someone who already finish the game comment on it a bit?

if yes (only contain slight spoiler):

  Hide contents

played on hard and not above the expected level.

Marth: altea castle,.. its THE Altea Castle. its significant for Marth, enough said. but i cant remember the map being that hard. courtesy of so many unit being a backup class Hero they can overwhelm you for just being there stacked with each other. truly a solid player strategy that they turn against you (abusing the chain attacks). 

Celica: its not significant enough that i remember the detail from Echoes, but seems still hold importance since Celica talk about Mila here. As for maps itself.. a lot of the maps in Echoes or rather Celica routes can be worse than this.. so i guess its okay with them putting summoner and reference to meeting dragon type for the first time iirc.

Sigurd: didnt play the game, cant comment on the story. Gameplay tho, somehow its fun and unexpectedly hilarious considering Sigurd just rush to his death with his super movement. giving you optional challenge of actually clearing the enemy on the opposite of the bridge while enduring Sigurd attack. not to emntion they kinda choke me at the bridge opening, and ganged upon the unit both with phys. & mag atk

Leif: didnt play the game, cant comment on the story. the maps seem to favor turtling at first.. but theres tempting runaway unit that carry dropable.. so Rescue-Warp strat really come at play here. and like Sigurd, Leif just going to greet our army before reaching near the opposite castle. once i stopped rushing, its become much more manageable. and the stationary enemy can be cleared by warping someone behind enemy lines while baiting leif in the middle map

Roy: A very good choice between gameplay and story. its all out war, Roy got his toughest challenge yet, and the maps has the most ambush spawn in the entire game iirc. Actual result? disappointing... this is the only map where i dont spend even one rewind, didnt use battle save, didnt have to retry , no one dies. A perfect clean run. why is that bad for me? well the "ambush spawn" becomes regular reinforcement, and even the amount of it get slashed almost half. a lot of ambush spawn below the map just didnt appear. Either that or i've become too good at that map as a fan of FE6.

Lyn: weird choice. but something that i can guess: Mulagir. Lyn never touched mulagir in FE7, but IS keep associating it with her. Not to mention the map is one where we got Mulagir iirc. a nasty map if you got careless or takes too much time the reinforcement will sweep you. But it is Sacae map alright. other Sacae map dont have this kind of challenge afaik.

Eirika: final map, it is emotional for Eirika and provide fair challenge, altho no much at this point in time you unlock it.

Ike: A challenging map both in original and in the recreation. The first challenge for Ike in terms of management, a fitting trial for Alear

Micaiah: didnt play the game, cant comment on the story. gameplay side, its a.. okay? all those stationary weapon dont serve any purpose in the end

Lucina: Arena Ferox is indeed an interesting story point in Awakening. A story moment thats very important for Lucina. as for the map.. the easiest & shortest might be the word.

Corrin: an actual high point in Fates story, the torment of choosing sides is a very emotional story beat. so the map is fitting for trial. the maps itself is kinda easy being early game .

Byleth: the moment of truth in 3Houses. the trial even include an Axe armor knight, Halberdier, and Wyvern knight near the end that have 2 bar of health. must be referencing the trio or maybe the actual enemy in the original map, or both. added smol challenge for protecting all crystal is neat, altho the reward is so-so lol. A good one

all the map clearly have gone through strict screening they represent interesting point of the OG game.. except Lyn lol

if not.. then please ignore the spoiler above

I actually found Corrin's one quite difficult. The enemies are so aggressive it turned into a pseudo defense map, only with no actual terrain to use as choke points or protection.

I mentioned in the OP about Ike, but I'll say it again for general purpose, I would have like it if, rather than playing out like the original game, the maps actually had you in inverted starting points. So the lords start where they originally did in their own games, while you start where the bosses originally did. For some maps, like Roy's this might have been a bit lame as the starting point is so non descript, but I think a lot of them would have had nice flows if inverted. Imagine your mission was to steal the crest stones for Byleth's!

[Ragnell17]

Micaiah's Paralogue map is so weird to me as while the layout mapwise is the same, the gameplay of the map doesn't hold an candle to the map it's based on.

Spoiler

Obviously without Beast units to use as a stand-in for the laguz, the paladins of the map serve as underwhelming substitutes.

The enemy's unit composition and the lack of allied units to protect end up turning this original tense defense chapter into a rush the boss at the bottom of the map. In the original this was something that was very hard to do especially since you're up against Ike and the Greil mercenaries.

In the Paralogue, the defense point is in no danger of being lost and the ballistae are too far out of range to see legitimate use. The power of the emblems at your disposal and the strength of your units compared to the "in over there heads" dawn Brigade, made the chapter a relative cake walk.

 

[joevar]

Making the starting point inverted is interesting. Just like the skirmishes right? So i dont think they didnt consider it. Maybe one of the reason is some map cant work in reverse like you said. But also possible explanation is literally to simulate the emblem pas hurdle/challenge so Alear can also learn whatever the emblem learn in their original life/game.

Imparting wisdom or something. reversing it will give different perspective and lesson than the emblem own experience

[Jotari]

4 minutes ago, Ragnell17 said:

Micaiah's Paralogue map is so weird to me as while the layout mapwise is the same, the gameplay of the map doesn't hold an candle to the map it's based on.

  Hide contents

Obviously without Beast units to use as a stand-in for the laguz, the paladins of the map serve as underwhelming substitutes.

The enemy's unit composition and the lack of allied units to protect end up turning this original tense defense chapter into a rush the boss at the bottom of the map. In the original this was something that was very hard to do especially since you're up against Ike and the Greil mercenaries.

In the Paralogue, the defense point is in no danger of being lost and the ballistae are too far out of range to see legitimate use. The power of the emblems at your disposal and the strength of your units compared to the "in over there heads" dawn Brigade, made the chapter a relative cake walk.

 

I found Micaiah's chapter pretty hard. The enemies were very difficult to one round and charged all at once. I could fill choke points, but only on the sides, they were able to freely rush the centre with Alear spawning dragon veins every turn to slow the progress. Rushing Micaiah was off the table just trying to stop being swarmed. I had to wait until she charged me, and even then it was a desperate attempt to get enough units in place to kill her. I don't think I had an opportunity to take down even one of the Dawn Brigade stand ins.

[lenticular]

My picks:

Spoiler

Marth: I don't know Shadow Dragon very well, and the only truly memorable chapters for me are Marth Embarks and The Wooden Cavalry. The latter would have been a terrible choice, but the former would have worked well.

Celica: Yeah, it's hard to think of any level here that really works on both an emotional level and a gameplay level. I quite like their choice, since it worked well enough as a level, and they could at least manage to somewhat justify it from a story perspective, even if it did require a fair bit of handwaving.

Sigurd, Leif, and Roy: No comment, as I've not played the Japan-only games.

Lyn: Was disappointing for me that they didn't include a level from her own game. Especially since there are probably a decent number of people in the same situation as I am, having never played Binding Blade since it's never been released internationally. I'd probably have gone with The Distant Plains as the obvious choice. If they wanted a map gimmick, they could also have tried to find some way to rework rain to make it more fun. As an alternative pick, I think that Sword of Spirits had the right emotional resonance, and a somewhat reworked version could have been an interesting low-deployment option.

Eirika: I'd suggest Last Hope. In story, it's just after Eirika gives the Sacred Stone to Lyon, so is easy to justify as having to carry on fighting even in your darkest moments. And in gameply, it's a defend map and having an occasional defend map is always fun. Of course, they changed the objectives on other paralogue maps to "kill boss", and this map probably wouldn't work well if they did that here.

Ike: Pretty clearly, the two big moments in Ike's story arc are the death of Greil and then the fight against the Black Knight. Of the two, I think that Despair and Hope is the more interesting map than Moment of Fate, so they made the right choice here. As a bit of a wilcard, I think they could also have done something interesting with Day Breaks. They'd have had to scale it back considerably rather than doing an exact replica of all four maps, but having a multi-part paralogue could have been a neat change of pace.

Micaiah: 3-13 wasn't a bad choice (even if there was no allied archer), but a part of me wishes they'd gone with One Survives instead. It's probably a good thing that they didn't, and it wouldn't translate at all to the "kill boss" objective that they standardised on, but I find it one of the most memorably maps in Radiant Dawn. From Pain, Awakening could have worked too, since it actually does feature Micaiah as the boss in the original version.

Lucina: This made sense from a story standpoint, but it's a pretty boring level. I'd probably have gone with Foreseer instead. It's storyline-important, pretty peak "I challenge my fate", and is a more interesting map than an empty arena.

Corrin: Yeah, I'm not sure what else this could have been. I can't imagine them choosing something from after the route split, and this is just such a bigger moment than anything that had happened before. Maybe they could have made Mother work if they had any good ideas for how to mechnically represent the rampaging dragon, but that's clutching at straws a little.

Byleth: Gronder could have worked, or The Sealed Forest Snare, but I think that my choice would have been The Battle of Garreg Mach. It's the first point where you (knowingly) fight against your former friends, it's where the war kicks off, and it's already a map that works from both the attack and the defend side, so having "Byleth defends" and "player attacks" would both feel natural. That said, I'm pretty happy about what they gave us, since they preserved the feel of the map gimmick decently well.

 

[vanguard333]

I haven't played the game, but, sadly, I already know which map was chosen for Ike.

There would've been a couple good choices from Path of Radiance that would've been significant for Ike as well as good maps in general, but the defining one would probably be the map from Chapter 8: Despair and Hope. In terms of being the most important to the character, it was Ike's first time having to lead the Greil Mercenaries after the death of his father; the chapter where he is thrust into the leadership role that he was not ready for. Ike and Elincia's character arcs in Path of Radiance can be summed up as the two of them being thrust into leadership roles they weren't ready for and having to grow into those roles, so, picking the chapter where Ike had to do that makes the most sense.

In terms of gameplay, it was probably the best defense mission in the game which had the best variety of map objectives. It had it all, so I cannot think of a chapter of Path of Radiance that would be more 'definitive' than that one.

Spoiler

So I am very glad that they chose it for Ike's paralogue. Since Ike has his Radiant Dawn appearance for some reason despite representing Path of Radiance, part of me thought they might pick a Radiant Dawn map, and while those maps are good, they don't represent Ike.

 

For Marth, either Talys or Altea Castle. Talys would be the opening chapter, when he finally demonstrates that he's ready to fight Dolhr, but it's an opening chapter. Altea Castle is him finally retaking his homeland, and it's a proper chapter rather than an intro. So... Altea Castle.

For Celica... the maps stink in terms of gameplay, and I can't think of one that's really important to Celica and her character journey. Most of the big character stuff: Alm and Celica reuniting for the second time being a good example, happened well outside the maps and often in dungeons. If it were Alm, I'd say Rigel Castle because that's the only map with a big character moment tied to it (or at least, what should've been a big character moment but wasn't because the remake squandered an opportunity it should've utilized): Alm unknowingly killing his own dad as a result of the warpath he and Rudolph both chose. Celica's moments almost all happen in dungeons or villages.

Haven't played the Judgral games, the Elibe games (that is the name of Roy's continent, correct?), or Sacred Stones, so I can't say.

For Micaiah... that's tricky. There are chapters that are tied to her character: part 1 chapter 9 when she gets ambushed by Jarod and saved by the Black Knight (which wouldn't work for a chapter), part 3 chapter 13: where she's desperately trying to defend Daein from both the Laguz Alliance, the Greil Mercenaries and the blood pact (which would make a good chapter, but both of the Tellius chapters being defend chapters would be weird, and this game doesn't have laguz, which are the bulk of the attacking forces in that chapter), I suppose part 1 chapter 8: where Micaiah rescues Daein citizens from the Begnion occupation and is hailed as a hero and Joan-of-Arc figure by the people of Daein (it's important for Micaiah's growth, but it's also a swamp chapter)… I just don't know. I guess either 3-13 or 1-8; one of those two.

For Lucina, Arena Ferox, both because that's when she fights her dad while pretending to be Marth, and because of Smash Bros.

For Fates, the field in chapter 6 where Corrin has to make the choice: Hoshido, Nohr, or neither. If it had been Azura, I would've suggested the opera map, but it's Corrin, and the most important map for Corrin would be the one where they had to choose.

For Byleth... that's tricky. There are some good contenders: the first chapter when they meet the students (but that's a tutorial mission), the Battle of Eagle and Lion field because of the contrast between part 1 and part 2 (but that field was only in part 2 in 2 routes: Azure Moon and Verdant Wind, and I guess that field is more about the students than it is about Byleth), the Monastery (so, chapter 12): as the monastery is extremely important to Byleth (but they'd then have to choose which version of chapter 12)… it would have to be somewhere really important, but also somewhere that is before the points at which the routes branch off... I can only think of two places: the forest where Kronya is fought, and the Holy Tomb. Of the two, the forest where Kronya is fought makes the most sense to me.

The Holy Tomb only really matters to Byleth in Silver Snow and Crimson Flower, as those are the routes where Edelgard being the Flame Emperor would actually affect them emotionally. Fighting Kronya and then fusing with Sothis, however, is important to Byleth in every route. It is a slightly more boring chapter, but very few chapters in Three Houses are not boring on some level.

Let's see:

Spoiler

Hey; all except for my Byleth guess was correct.

 

[Speedy]

Spoiler

Man im so glad they did not choose any other map from echoes on Celina route, I would especially be pissed if they given us a swamp map... Especially with Engage movement range.

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by Speedy

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Yeah I caught footage of Ike's and made a thread here asking just what the heck is up with reusing old maps and got the short answer. Sounds to me like a holdover idea from Fire Emblem Heroes. Here's what I expect/hope they'd pick.

Spoiler

• Marth: Expecting the Island of Talys. Hoping for Chapter 16, returning to Altea.
• Celica: Expecting that swamp map where Jedah is coming after you. Hoping for a boat map.
• Siglud: Expecting Ch 5, Hoping for Ch 3
• Leif: I've been spoiled on this one in a stream and come on, the Reinhardt map? Is IS still confused about who the Lord of FE5 was? Should have been an Escape chapter. Also the bridge blowing up behind you doesn't stop any unit from crossing. Lame. For what it's worth, this map is DEFINITELY what I would have expected them to pick.
• Roy: Expecting Chapter 21. Hoping for 21x.
• Lyn: Expecting Chapter 10. And hoping for it as well.
• Eirika: Expecting the Desert map where you reunite with Ephraim. And hoping for it as well.
• Ike: I've been spoiled on this one and It's not bad. 
• Micaiah: Expecting the map where you battle The Greil Mercenaries in Daein. Hoping for the Survive chapter where the Black Knight is helping you.
• Lucina: I've been spoiled on this one and it's pretty bad. Not her first encounter with Dad, and a really dull choice of map to boot. I would have picked the map where she's stopping the assassination, or heck, do one of those bad future DLC maps I've never seen before.
• Corrin: Expecting The route split map where you choose your family. Hoping for...err I don't remember any Fates maps I like. So, the opera house for visual variety?
• Byleth: Expecting the map where you fight Kronya. Hoping for Chapter 13. 

Wow sounds like I got 4 out of 9 correct with Marth, Roy, Corrin and Micaiah. With two of those four being what I was hoping rather than expecting. I'd swear I would get Leif's correct if I wasn't spoiled on that beforehand. Hold on, does Engage imply these are the actual locations these maps took place in? How's that supposed to work? I just assumed they step into an outrealm gate like this is an Awakening DLC and nothing is implied to be real.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Zapp Branniglenn

[DefyingFates]

1 hour ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Hold on, does Engage imply these are the actual locations these maps took place in?

They're locations that have been recreated through magic for the sake of the Emblems' Trials - though the Emblems say they're not 1:1 replicas.

Edited February 7, 2023 by DefyingFates

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Hold on, does Engage imply these are the actual locations these maps took place in? How's that supposed to work? I just assumed they step into an outrealm gate like this is an Awakening DLC and nothing is implied to be real.

Yes. It's a tad bit ridiculous. For just some random plains or a field it makes sense that the Emblem could go "huh, this looks vaguely like a place I know" as they wander the continent. But for the huge ass castles and temples that some paralogues are set in, it's just really weird for the characters to end up there with no explanation and for these locations to just be plopped into the middle of Elyos. I mean, maybe they're implying some kind of transdimensional warping went on or something, but if a giant ass building from another world appeared in your back garden, you're not going to just ignore it. People are going to claim ownership of it, make theories about it, live in it, set it up for trade and defense. It's not going to just be there, empty, waiting for you to have a mock battle. It's going to be an actual location in the world that the people of the world incorporate into their life. But in general, outside of the first town you visit and Jean's chapter, Engage does have a bit of an issue conveying that this is an actual populated world.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Jotari

[Original Alear]

I hate the ballistae in Leaf's map. They're extremely strong and they're hard to dodge.

[Armagon]

• Spoiler

  • Marth: Altea Castle makes sense. If there's something funny about the legacy maps though, is that especially the early ones (as in the series) jarringly stand out in Engage because their map design philosophy is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum. Still, it was kinda tough and, like all the legacy maps, is enhanced by Engage's top-tier mechanics.
  • Celica: lol Gaiden map. Yeah Mila's Temple or whatever would've made more sense. The map itself plays better than the original in the sense that there's actually enemies. It plays worse in the sense that you just bait Celica and two-turn the map.
  • Sigurd: FE4's all about legacy so it makes sense why his map is Ch.10. They also did the impossible and made an FE4 map actually fun to play.
  • Leif: I dropped Thracia like four chapters in so i have no real thoughts on this map other than it's probably better than the original.
  • Roy: THEY MADE CH.21 NOT SUCK ASS LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
  • Lyn: Ok so i've actually never gone Sacae route in FE6 despite like the eight times i played it so i have no real thoughts on this map lol
  • Eirika: solid
  • Ike: haha it's PoR Ch.8-DID IKE JUST BREAK THE CASTLE
  • Micaiah: actually worse because lack of ledge mechanics. It is easier too, mainly because Alear's army has this thing called "availability" as opposed to the Dawn Brigade
  • Lucina: I mean there's only so much you can do with Arena Ferox
  • Corrin: decent. Like the Dragon Vein usage even if it doesn't matter too much
  • Byleth: would've chosen Gronder Field ngl. That was like the main selling point of 3H.

  My thoughts in the spoilers

As far as significance goes, it's really only Lyn and Celica that have the ? factor. Lyn in particular could've chosen something like FE7 Ch.15/16. 

[vanguard333]

39 minutes ago, Armagon said:

•   Reveal hidden contents

  • Marth: Altea Castle makes sense. If there's something funny about the legacy maps though, is that especially the early ones (as in the series) jarringly stand out in Engage because their map design philosophy is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum. Still, it was kinda tough and, like all the legacy maps, is enhanced by Engage's top-tier mechanics.
  • Celica: lol Gaiden map. Yeah Mila's Temple or whatever would've made more sense. The map itself plays better than the original in the sense that there's actually enemies. It plays worse in the sense that you just bait Celica and two-turn the map.
  • Sigurd: FE4's all about legacy so it makes sense why his map is Ch.10. They also did the impossible and made an FE4 map actually fun to play.
  • Leif: I dropped Thracia like four chapters in so i have no real thoughts on this map other than it's probably better than the original.
  • Roy: THEY MADE CH.21 NOT SUCK ASS LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
  • Lyn: Ok so i've actually never gone Sacae route in FE6 despite like the eight times i played it so i have no real thoughts on this map lol
  • Eirika: solid
  • Ike: haha it's PoR Ch.8-DID IKE JUST BREAK THE CASTLE
  • Micaiah: actually worse because lack of ledge mechanics. It is easier too, mainly because Alear's army has this thing called "availability" as opposed to the Dawn Brigade
  • Lucina: I mean there's only so much you can do with Arena Ferox
  • Corrin: decent. Like the Dragon Vein usage even if it doesn't matter too much
  • Byleth: would've chosen Gronder Field ngl. That was like the main selling point of 3H.

  My thoughts in the spoilers

As far as significance goes, it's really only Lyn and Celica that have the ? factor. Lyn in particular could've chosen something like FE7 Ch.15/16. 

Spoiler

My first thought was Gronder Field as well, but then I thought that that place isn't as emotionally important to Byleth as it is for the students, and, despite having been heavily advertised, the part 2 version of it, where everyone fights each other for real, was only in two routes: Azure Moon and Verdant Wind.

That said, I definitely would not have thought of the Holy Tomb; that chapter only has emotional significance to Byleth in Silver Snow/Crimson Flower and is basically just another chapter to Byleth in the other two routes. I would've gone with the chapter where Byleth fights Kronya and Solon.

 

[Anathaco]

14 hours ago, Jotari said:

I don't think I had an opportunity to take down even one of the Dawn Brigade stand ins.

...there were more Dawn Brigade standins than Sothe?

I think I was just looking at enemies with revive stones lol. Either that or I beat the map before they could spawn. But I am only on Hard, so

[Eltosian Kadath]

Spoiler

Marth - Shrug, its serviceable.

Celica - It is an odd pick, but I do kinda see it, as the map in the original is all about Celica's ability to use the Seraphim spell. Personally I think I would have done a rendition of the swamp map with Jedah, as it resonates with Celica's story a bit more, and is no weirder than the one they chose gameplay-wise.

Sigurd - It seems a little odd to use a generation 2 map, as he was never really there for it, and its only about 1/2 of a Genealogy map, but of the generation 2 maps, the tail end of Chapter 10, is probably their best choice, as its where Sigurd's murder is avenged, and Seliph can have a final vision of his departed parents. Having a stand in for Julius and Ishtar's little game is a fun touch , and it is kinda funny that Sigurd is in the position of his killer.

Lief - This was a solid pick, but I am a little saddened that they didn't use one of the escape maps, something like chapter 19...

Roy - Good pick.

Lyn - This one I find insulting, not only is this not even from her game, but is clearly another attempt to retcon the Mulagir into her hands. I think the map Noble Lady of Caelin (or perhaps even Whereabouts Unknown) would have been a far better option for her, it being a pivotal moment where she has to truly rely on the help of her friends to retake her homeland, with the worry for her uncle deep in her heart.

Eirika/Ephraim - I guess it works, but I think I would have preferred either their first battle with Lyon instead (River of Regrets) or possibly even the retaking of Renias in Ruled By Madness instead.

Ike - I kinda wish they used one of the maps with the BK in it, like Blood Runs Red, but I respect the choice for its relevance to Ike's story.

Micaiah - A solid choice for her map.

Lucina - It works I guess. Like quite a few maps that I am lukewarm about on this list, it works, but I kinda wish they went with a more interesting map.

Corrin - Without them making one of the paths canon, it is the best map they could chose.

Byleth - I get the feeling this one made the cut so they didn't favor any of the routes over another...eh, I guess it works given that context.

 

Overall, I think having these returning maps is a cool touch, and its funny how differently these maps play, despite being able to see the similarities of them. Admittedly I haven't played all of these yet, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

•   Hide contents

  • Marth: Altea Castle makes sense. If there's something funny about the legacy maps though, is that especially the early ones (as in the series) jarringly stand out in Engage because their map design philosophy is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum. Still, it was kinda tough and, like all the legacy maps, is enhanced by Engage's top-tier mechanics.
  • Celica: lol Gaiden map. Yeah Mila's Temple or whatever would've made more sense. The map itself plays better than the original in the sense that there's actually enemies. It plays worse in the sense that you just bait Celica and two-turn the map.
  • Sigurd: FE4's all about legacy so it makes sense why his map is Ch.10. They also did the impossible and made an FE4 map actually fun to play.
  • Leif: I dropped Thracia like four chapters in so i have no real thoughts on this map other than it's probably better than the original.
  • Roy: THEY MADE CH.21 NOT SUCK ASS LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
  • Lyn: Ok so i've actually never gone Sacae route in FE6 despite like the eight times i played it so i have no real thoughts on this map lol
  • Eirika: solid
  • Ike: haha it's PoR Ch.8-DID IKE JUST BREAK THE CASTLE
  • Micaiah: actually worse because lack of ledge mechanics. It is easier too, mainly because Alear's army has this thing called "availability" as opposed to the Dawn Brigade
  • Lucina: I mean there's only so much you can do with Arena Ferox
  • Corrin: decent. Like the Dragon Vein usage even if it doesn't matter too much
  • Byleth: would've chosen Gronder Field ngl. That was like the main selling point of 3H.

  My thoughts in the spoilers

As far as significance goes, it's really only Lyn and Celica that have the ? factor. Lyn in particular could've chosen something like FE7 Ch.15/16. 

Sacae is obviously important to Lyn, so it does make sense. It's just a bit weird for it to be from a game other than her own.

17 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

  Hide contents

Marth - Shrug, its serviceable.

Celica - It is an odd pick, but I do kinda see it, as the map in the original is all about Celica's ability to use the Seraphim spell. Personally I think I would have done a rendition of the swamp map with Jedah, as it resonates with Celica's story a bit more, and is no weirder than the one they chose gameplay-wise.

Sigurd - It seems a little odd to use a generation 2 map, as he was never really there for it, and its only about 1/2 of a Genealogy map, but of the generation 2 maps, the tail end of Chapter 10, is probably their best choice, as its where Sigurd's murder is avenged, and Seliph can have a final vision of his departed parents. Having a stand in for Julius and Ishtar's little game is a fun touch , and it is kinda funny that Sigurd is in the position of his killer.

Lief - This was a solid pick, but I am a little saddened that they didn't use one of the escape maps, something like chapter 19...

Roy - Good pick.

Lyn - This one I find insulting, not only is this not even from her game, but is clearly another attempt to retcon the Mulagir into her hands. I think the map Noble Lady of Caelin (or perhaps even Whereabouts Unknown) would have been a far better option for her, it being a pivotal moment where she has to truly rely on the help of her friends to retake her homeland, with the worry for her uncle deep in her heart.

Eirika/Ephraim - I guess it works, but I think I would have preferred either their first battle with Lyon instead (River of Regrets) or possibly even the retaking of Renias in Ruled By Madness instead.

Ike - I kinda wish they used one of the maps with the BK in it, like Blood Runs Red, but I respect the choice for its relevance to Ike's story.

Micaiah - A solid choice for her map.

Lucina - It works I guess. Like quite a few maps that I am lukewarm about on this list, it works, but I kinda wish they went with a more interesting map.

Corrin - Without them making one of the paths canon, it is the best map they could chose.

Byleth - I get the feeling this one made the cut so they didn't favor any of the routes over another...eh, I guess it works given that context.

 

Overall, I think having these returning maps is a cool touch, and its funny how differently these maps play, despite being able to see the similarities of them. Admittedly I haven't played all of these yet, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

The Radiant Dawn Black Knight map actually could have been really interesting for Ike. Imagine you had to choose one character to fight Ike one on one while you try to get a good prize down below. And, unlike actual Radiant Dawn where the Black Knight is just sort of easy, because it's optional, it could have been scaled quite high to make it legitimately difficult to beat Ike.

 

 

 

 

[Medeus]

Spoiler

Marth - It's been a long while since I've played SD so I may be missing some details, but from what I remember this was a notable chapter for Marth so it makes sense as a choice. I do like that they tried to have some side objectives in the map that you can go for, or you can ignore all of them and gun for Marth, it allows for different ways to approach the map and I do appreciate that even if it's not my favorite. 

Celica - Yeah, there's not much they can do with this one. There's not many maps that are really iconic from her route that I feel would've worked, and the ones that were story important were also awful to play so I think they chose this as it's the most mechanically interesting map they could get. Not too much else to say here other than thanks Celica for jumping into my army and allowing yourself to be defeated, you spared me many headaches with the cantor stand-ins. 

Sigurd - Chapter 5 probably would've been more important for Sigurd, but considering how dodgy they were about Sigurd's fate I get the impression they wanted to keep that plot point under wraps. In terms of the map it works and does do a good job mixing FE4 and Engage's mechanics, but unfortunately it gets railroaded by Sigurd's AI deciding it'd be funny to bull run right at you and get himself easily picked off.

Lief - It's not the most emotionally important to him as I think a couple like Chapter 20 were bigger for him, but it's still one of the most memorable maps from the game and it has a strong line that's even retold by Lief here, so I still think it's a great choice. Gameplay-wise it's by far the most difficult of the Paralogues (as it should be) thanks to the ballistas and staves crippling you which tempt you to play slowly, but then they throw in the good enemy drops that tempt you to play aggressively. So you have to choose which option is best and plan out your moves accordingly, which made this as fun for me as it was difficult. 

Roy - Another solid choice from a story stand-point, but I agree it falls short gameplay-wise since Engage's mechanics allow for it to be steamrolled more easily. 

Lyn - This one's a weird one. Lyn's story mostly ends with her mode and she doesn't have much of a connection that happens afterwards, so story-wise you're not picking anything from Eliwood or Hector's routes, and from her route the only chapter I can think of that could work was the one where she gets the Mani Katti or the final chapter where she defeats Lundgren and saves her grandfather, but even then they're pretty simple chapters and I'm not sure how they could've brought them up to a level that would've made them fun to play. So choosing an important Sacae map from FE6 makes sense as Sacae is very important for her character, and gameplay-wise it is a good map as you have to play carefully unless you want to be overrun by Lyn and her reinforcements. 

Eirika - Honestly, it works. Using the final chapter is a bit of a cheat I agree, but in terms of importance and memorability this one is definitely towards the top as it's the final confrontation with Lyon and is emotionally one of the high points for Eirika as she's forced to stop her best friend. Gameplay-wise it works, no real complaints, and it's kind of nice that you fight on the opposite side of the starting point from FE8.

Ike - Again, works really well as it's the first major moment in Ike's journey and one of the most memorable from PoR. Also very fun thanks to Ike just blowing up the castle and gunning for you. 

Micaiah - Solid choice, one of the best maps from the game (only Elinicia's Gambit beats it IMO) and story-wise it's a major moment for Micaiah. I agree there should've been a 3-13 archer reference, though I do appreciate the Dawn Brigade being represented in the final reinforcements. Mechanically the differences between RD and Engage (lack of ledges, Beast units, etc.) does force some caveats that hold the paralogue back, but it's still a fun pseudo-defend map.

Lucina - Works, but kind of a dull. It's a notable moment for Lucina and Awakening as a whole so I can't complain too much from a story standpoint, but gameplay-wise it's not the most memorable even in that game and that aspect is unfortunately carried over to Engage.

Corrin - Makes sense since it's the most neutral map they could use, but it's unfortunate nonetheless since Fates has many excellent maps. That said, at least they liven it up with the Dragon Vein mechanic. 

Byleth - Probably chosen due to being the most neutral map of importance alongside Gronder Field and the attack on Garreg Mach, and between the three I feel they made the right choice. The stone mechanic allows for some fun gameplay as you have to play aggressively and defend them if you want all of the rewards, and it made for a unique experience. I also appreciate the Edelgard, Dimitri, and Claude stand-ins as they're a pretty cute nod to his students.

 

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Medeus said:

  Hide contents

Marth - It's been a long while since I've played SD so I may be missing some details, but from what I remember this was a notable chapter for Marth so it makes sense as a choice. I do like that they tried to have some side objectives in the map that you can go for, or you can ignore all of them and gun for Marth, it allows for different ways to approach the map and I do appreciate that even if it's not my favorite. 

Celica - Yeah, there's not much they can do with this one. There's not many maps that are really iconic from her route that I feel would've worked, and the ones that were story important were also awful to play so I think they chose this as it's the most mechanically interesting map they could get. Not too much else to say here other than thanks Celica for jumping into my army and allowing yourself to be defeated, you spared me many headaches with the cantor stand-ins. 

Sigurd - Chapter 5 probably would've been more important for Sigurd, but considering how dodgy they were about Sigurd's fate I get the impression they wanted to keep that plot point under wraps. In terms of the map it works and does do a good job mixing FE4 and Engage's mechanics, but unfortunately it gets railroaded by Sigurd's AI deciding it'd be funny to bull run right at you and get himself easily picked off.

Lief - It's not the most emotionally important to him as I think a couple like Chapter 20 were bigger for him, but it's still one of the most memorable maps from the game and it has a strong line that's even retold by Lief here, so I still think it's a great choice. Gameplay-wise it's by far the most difficult of the Paralogues (as it should be) thanks to the ballistas and staves crippling you which tempt you to play slowly, but then they throw in the good enemy drops that tempt you to play aggressively. So you have to choose which option is best and plan out your moves accordingly, which made this as fun for me as it was difficult. 

Roy - Another solid choice from a story stand-point, but I agree it falls short gameplay-wise since Engage's mechanics allow for it to be steamrolled more easily. 

Lyn - This one's a weird one. Lyn's story mostly ends with her mode and she doesn't have much of a connection that happens afterwards, so story-wise you're not picking anything from Eliwood or Hector's routes, and from her route the only chapter I can think of that could work was the one where she gets the Mani Katti or the final chapter where she defeats Lundgren and saves her grandfather, but even then they're pretty simple chapters and I'm not sure how they could've brought them up to a level that would've made them fun to play. So choosing an important Sacae map from FE6 makes sense as Sacae is very important for her character, and gameplay-wise it is a good map as you have to play carefully unless you want to be overrun by Lyn and her reinforcements. 

Eirika - Honestly, it works. Using the final chapter is a bit of a cheat I agree, but in terms of importance and memorability this one is definitely towards the top as it's the final confrontation with Lyon and is emotionally one of the high points for Eirika as she's forced to stop her best friend. Gameplay-wise it works, no real complaints, and it's kind of nice that you fight on the opposite side of the starting point from FE8.

Ike - Again, works really well as it's the first major moment in Ike's journey and one of the most memorable from PoR. Also very fun thanks to Ike just blowing up the castle and gunning for you. 

Micaiah - Solid choice, one of the best maps from the game (only Elinicia's Gambit beats it IMO) and story-wise it's a major moment for Micaiah. I agree there should've been a 3-13 archer reference, though I do appreciate the Dawn Brigade being represented in the final reinforcements. Mechanically the differences between RD and Engage (lack of ledges, Beast units, etc.) does force some caveats that hold the paralogue back, but it's still a fun pseudo-defend map.

Lucina - Works, but kind of a dull. It's a notable moment for Lucina and Awakening as a whole so I can't complain too much from a story standpoint, but gameplay-wise it's not the most memorable even in that game and that aspect is unfortunately carried over to Engage.

Corrin - Makes sense since it's the most neutral map they could use, but it's unfortunate nonetheless since Fates has many excellent maps. That said, at least they liven it up with the Dragon Vein mechanic. 

Byleth - Probably chosen due to being the most neutral map of importance alongside Gronder Field and the attack on Garreg Mach, and between the three I feel they made the right choice. The stone mechanic allows for some fun gameplay as you have to play aggressively and defend them if you want all of the rewards, and it made for a unique experience. I also appreciate the Edelgard, Dimitri, and Claude stand-ins as they're a pretty cute nod to his students.

 

I actually found Leif's map one of the easier paralogues. Though I admit I did cheese it a bit by using a mage flier to trigger his ai early and make him come to me after taking out the ballista on the west bank. The hardest paralogue I'm finding is Marth, at least right now. I spent all morning trying to beat it and lost after like three hours of dodging around various choke points. The stats are just so crazy high! It's basically impossible to one round any of the enemies, and even with speed taker boosted to the max I can barely double anyone.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Jotari

[TheHBK]

Weird to see people surprised by the 3H choice. It's the first mission which diverges based on your house choice (all previous missions are the exact same even if there is a slight variation at Gronder 1.0, or the training mission if you wanna be pedantic).

It's the same as with Fates logic. It may not be the most memorable mission (debatable), but it's where the story actually diverges. Makes sense to use it.

Edit: IIRC Gronder 2.0 is only present in half the routes. It wouldn't make sense to use it.

Edited February 8, 2023 by TheHBK