Scenes from older games that deserve FMVs

[Jotari]

Full motion videos have been a thing in the series ever since Path of Radiance and, with a brief absence on the DS, have been a consistent part of the series. Shadows of Valentia, naturally included it when they remade Gaiden. Though Gaiden being Gaiden didn't really have many scenes that scream FMV other than the Alm Celica reunion. Most of the stuff they focused on with that is more of the original stuff added. Nonethelss, FMVs are something we can expect when and if they remake the older games. So what scenes do you think will or deserve to be adapted in a full motion format for maximum gravitas. The most obvious one to me, would be the Battle of Barhara, so let's get that out of the way early.

This thread has probably been made before since it seems like an obvious topic of conversation, but I can't remember ever seeing it discussed before.

[Punished Dayni]

I don't think it has actually. I'm going to go over Genealogy through to BlaB, three examples each.

Sigurd meeting Deirdre is such an obvious cutscene, no matter how Genealogy handles itself it should be able to be fit into the game even mid-map. Eldigan's return to Syvale or death in Chapter 3 also makes sense, while I'll also mention Ishtar's arrival in Chapter 8 as a possible one.

From Thracia, I'd have to bring up Chapter 5. You know what event. I'd also probably bring up Chapter 13, for a wide view of Tarrah (As it's spelt now? And I thought Leonster was the most egregious changing of the names from just Irish province. When this start happening?) Also probably the end of Chapter 20, considering what happens there.

For BinB, the fall of Hector I think could be an easy pick, because if you're going to make it matter show him in some form going down fighting. Probably the first reveal of a Fire Dragon would also make sense, while as for lategame Zephiel after you open the door in 22 seems about right.

BlaB has a couple of CGs that would likely get expanded into cutscenes, like at the end of Cog of Destiny but imo there are others to consider: There's at the end of the trials for Durandel/Armads, I'd argue Lyn finding Hausen alive when they take back Caelin in Chapter 16/17 and I'll also mention the reveal of the Black Fang Morphs. Not that these all would or necessarily should be used, but I wanted to avoid ones with CGs already.

(Also, TIL there's prototype CGs for BlaB and while the difference is likely due to the backlightless screen of the GBA and wanting to make it easier to see they look better, no question.)

Edit: let's add SS. Not Monica, the unknown is kinda the point of that scene. I'll mention the end of Chapter 15 with Eirika and Ephriam meeting again, the first time they face monsters in Chapter 4 and the reveal of Morva in Chapter 20. As for one for the route split, Vigarde at the end of 14 maybe on Ephraim's? There's a CG for Ismaire already at the end of 14 so that can't be counted for mine, but I can't think of a better answer on Eirika's route.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Punished Dayni

[Jotari]

7 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

BlaB has a couple of CGs that would likely get expanded into cutscenes, like at the end of Cog of Destiny but imo there are others to consider: There's at the end of the trials for Durandel/Armads, I'd argue Lyn finding Hausen alive when they take back Caelin in Chapter 16/17 and I'll also mention the reveal of the Black Fang Morphs. Not that these all would or necessarily should be used, but I wanted to avoid ones with CGs already.

Roy actually drawing the Binding Blade also feels like something they'd invest heavily on in terms of visuals.

[Acacia Sgt]

25 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

Not Monica, the unknown is kinda the point of that scene.

Alternatively, the FMV is from Monica's POV. So we still don't see her directly... but can see how the characters react.

[Morgan--Grandmaster]

I'd say Sara restoring Eyvel and her reuniting with Mareeta and the others deserves at least a CG.

[Punished Dayni]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Roy actually drawing the Binding Blade also feels like something they'd invest heavily on in terms of visuals.

Makes sense.

That does have a CG for it in the credits, I tend to forget about those. There's also one for Roy and Zephiel, but I wonder how close they'd come to that in game.

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Alternatively, the FMV is from Monica's POV. So we still don't see her directly... but can see how the characters react.

Okay, this is an acceptable answer.

2 minutes ago, Morgan--Grandmaster said:

I'd say Sara restoring Eyvel and her reuniting with Mareeta and the others deserves at least a CG.

That too, would they have it after the map?

[Zapp Branniglenn]

When Shadow Dragon gets made a FOURTH time (not counting the limited release Switch version which I'd call a (bad) remaster), I'm expecting some gosh darned cutscenes. But a lot of what I would suggest was already covered in the Fire Emblem anime. A flashback to Marth killing an innocent animal. Watching Gharnef kill Marth's dad. Elice warping Marth and Jagen out of the palace when it's under siege. Marth sailing away from home and beginning life as a fugitive. Maybe a Meet-Cute between Marth and Ceada. All of these draw us in to the main character at his lowest point, and motivate us to make everything right.

You know what will really need some attention, the oft-forgotten mid game chapters. So I'm demanding cutscenes of Minerva and Maria's reunion, the prisoners of Archanea palace hearing that their execution has been moved up now that we're breaking in, and a new scene where an advance army encounters Gharnef in the Khadein desert and gets obliterated before we arrive. i specifically want a shot of the sands shifting under his magical powers. Not just assisting his every menacing step but looking like the earth is swallowing the corpses of these poor troops.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Zapp Branniglenn

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

When Shadow Dragon gets made a FOURTH time (not counting the limited release Switch version which I'd call a (bad) remaster), I'm expecting some gosh darned cutscenes. But a lot of what I would suggest was already covered in the Fire Emblem anime. A flashback to Marth killing an innocent animal. Watching Gharnef kill Marth's dad. Elice warping Marth and Jagen out of the palace when it's under siege. Marth sailing away from home and beginning life as a fugitive. Maybe a Meet-Cute between Marth and Ceada. All of these draw us in to the main character at his lowest point, and motivate us to make everything right.

The anime has that kind of laughable mid budget 90s vibe, but I really, really do like the choices they made to adapt the story. I think it would have been remembered a lot more fondly it it had a chance to gather steam and even got like two more episodes to introduce Nyna and Hardin. It's also a shame virtually none of that was used when they eventually did adapt a Shadow Dragon prologue on DS. Speaking of which, if we were to get another Shadow Dragon, I want Morzas to show up in the prologue. Because the game actively says Marth is confronting him again in the Chapter 14 intro...so obviously they've met before. But when!? This is the guy that killed Marth's mother, let's give him a modicum of respect as a character! Plus his line about how Medeus wouldn't have entrusted the Altean throne to him if he didn't think he could keep it is pretty badass.

[Acacia Sgt]

24 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Because the game actively says Marth is confronting him again in the Chapter 14 intro...so obviously they've met before. But when!? This is the guy that killed Marth's mother, let's give him a modicum of respect as a character!

Curiously, even the Japanese script of Shadow Dragon took the line out about meeting again. Is there any evidence Morzas and Marth were actually to have met before? The only evidence is that line Book 1.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[Jotari]

13 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Curiously, even the Japanese script of Shadow Dragon took the line out about meeting again. Is there any evidence Morzas and Marth were actually to have met before? The only evidence is that line Book 1.

I doubt it. Archanea isn't the kind of setting to delve much into the backstories or motivations of its chapter bosses. Still, even with the line removed, I just plain like the idea of Marth having met Morzas before and having a personal connection to at least one enemy in the game other than Gharnef. Retaking Altea also cannot be understated a plot beat for Marth. There's a very good reason it's his paralogue in Engage, as this is probably the most emotional moment of Marth's entire life! It's where he becomes the Loedstar. It deserves more than random manakete boss number 4.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Jotari

[Uriyahn]

Obligatory Arvis' barbecue joke.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

For Blazing Blade: Lyn getting the Mani Katti, fighting and defeating Lundgren, and finding with her grandfather. Eliwood rescuing Ninian during Lyn Mode, Eliwood and Hector meeting up, Eliwood and Hector meeting up with Lyn, finding the portrait of Nergal and his wife, Elbert's death, Black Fang introduction, Nino hesitating to kill Zephiel, Nino's confrontation with Sonia, Ninian's "death," Nergal's death and the fire dragon's appearance, and Athos's death, as well as stuff with Kishuna and the opening and ending of the game itself.

[Acacia Sgt]

I'd say, for Genealogy, a good option would be in Chapter 9, when Arione calls forth the Dragon Trinity Strike. Show a swarm of wyverns blocking the sky.

[KMT4ever]

Some of my suggestions:

• FE6: Before Ch. 16 where Bern and the Revolutionaries end up being forced to retreat inside the palace by the Elimine Church and angry citizenry, as well as Murdock's debut confronting and demoting Narcian
• FE6: The beginning of Ch. 23 where Brunnya talks to her remaining troops and Guinivere tells Roy that she must stay at the frontline to hear their calls. "That is all that a...traitor like myself can do..."
• FE7: Before Chapter 10 when Lyndis's Legion finally lays eyes upon Castle Caelin
• FE7: After defeating Darin at the Dragon's Gate, the whole scene with Nergal summoning a dragon, Nils breaking Ninian out of her trance, and Ephidel being sucked through the gate
• FE8: During the prologue, show Seth and Eirika fleeing the throne room before shifting to Fado's last stand, with Grado soldiers surrounding him before a blank-faced Vigarde and Lyon approach him as he prepares to fight
• FE8: Before Chapter 10 of Eirika's route when Innes, Gerik, and Tethys are preparing their last stand while surrounded by Pablo's troops

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

Marth arriving in Aurelis.

Nyna giving Marth the Fire Emblem, unless it´s a "take this and be on your way"-kinda scene.

Marths speech from Altea castle after taking it back.

The first Manakete in any game transforming - I don´t know all the games but Corrins real-slim-dragon form is the only one we get to see, not counting Rhea, who for me doesn´t really feel like a Manakete? give Bantu his due glory

Est yoinking the Mercurius 🤌

[SnowFire]

Hot take: None of them.

Okay, slight proviso here, none of them so long as the Engage cutscene-making team is in charge of things, some of the 3H cutscenes were okay.  But it's an interesting example to start with, because playing Engage, I was thinking just how much more effective the Battle of Belhalla is done in-system than Engage's cutscenes and wishing that they had used the system to display some of the major plot events rather than cutscenes.  If you have budget, put it into making more expressive characters in-system that can do more things rather than the cutscene.  The classic example here is Final Fantasy Tactics, where nearly everything is rendered in-system with loving hand gestures, weapon swinging, and everything.

The big thing that I think you get with system-rendered stuff is "physicality" of the scene: that where people are, what they're doing, what their options are, etc.  It makes the event "make sense" and that makes everything else have more meaning.  This is especially true if there's fighting / ambushes / etc., but it can be true even if it's just a tense conversation: who is imperiously standing at the head of the table, who is nervously backing up, is someone brandishing a weapon etc.  Using the system means there's no cost to having everyone who makes sense take place, too, while cutscenes often like to reduce the number of characters to whoever's guaranteed to be there, or even fewer.

This isn't the Engage forum so I won't go into spoiler details, but I'll just offer the cutscene after Chapter 21 as an example of a scene that makes no damn physical sense, and doing something like Ike vs. the Black Knight in system would have been 10000x times better to sell what they were going for then that nonsense.

I'll point out another example: to the extent you're worried about appealing to both kids and adults at the same time, a slightly zoomed out "system" view can help shade whether people are Really Bleeding And Dying or not.  Cutscenes tend to have extra detail that make you pick one, with Engage being an obvious example of "Nope, nobody is really getting hurt, this is anime power blasts that bounce off people and do nothing even when someone swings a giant ax at someone dressed in a simple gown," with the closest being someone's clothing occasionally getting a bit singed to signify they're really in trouble.  If it's in system, you can imagine as much or as little blood & gore as you'd like.

But yeah.  Engage is a game that made me really, really appreciate doing scenes with normal character models and/or sprites.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, SnowFire said:

Hot take: None of them.

Okay, slight proviso here, none of them so long as the Engage cutscene-making team is in charge of things, some of the 3H cutscenes were okay.  But it's an interesting example to start with, because playing Engage, I was thinking just how much more effective the Battle of Belhalla is done in-system than Engage's cutscenes and wishing that they had used the system to display some of the major plot events rather than cutscenes.  If you have budget, put it into making more expressive characters in-system that can do more things rather than the cutscene.  The classic example here is Final Fantasy Tactics, where nearly everything is rendered in-system with loving hand gestures, weapon swinging, and everything.

But Final Fantasy Tactics did have cutscenes. In fact, it was even the church scene that I was thinking of when making this thread, rather than any Fire Emblem scene, mainly because I was remembering it having actual direction, something Fire Emblem seems to lack entirely in anything other than its FMVs. Because as bad as you say they use their FMVs, the stuff they do in engine is worse. They've  made no effort to adapt to a 3D enviroment and still treat scenes like two spritesin front of a background. Which makes me dread a Genealogy of the Holy War remake where there are dozens of scenes of villains talking in castles. Be it FMV or in Engine, I'm really hoping we get scenes constructed more like this than a bunch of people standing there with a spinning camera.

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Jotari

[SnowFire]

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

But Final Fantasy Tactics did have cutscenes

Ah, that is from the Remake That Shall Not Be Named.  To rephrase: PSX Final Fantasy Tactics essentially has no cutscenes aside from the opening movie.  Everything is done in-engine.  Can't speak to what the remake did or how effective it was, I really hated what I saw of the War of the Lions translation which would have soured me on the other aspects whether it was fair or not.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, SnowFire said:

Ah, that is from the Remake That Shall Not Be Named.  To rephrase: PSX Final Fantasy Tactics essentially has no cutscenes aside from the opening movie.  Everything is done in-engine.  Can't speak to what the remake did or how effective it was, I really hated what I saw of the War of the Lions translation which would have soured me on the other aspects whether it was fair or not.

Yeah, but that's kind of exactly what were talking about. Remakes adding fmvs to older games. Everything in the old games was already done in engine.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Here's how I envision Genealogy Remake starting:

A wide-open battlefield, beneath a cloud-covered sky, late in the day. One one side, the forces of Grannvale, led by Prince Kurth. Familiar faces - Lord Byron, Duke Reptor, Count Langbart - dressed in military fineries. On the other side, the swordsmen of Isaach, under their Crown Prince, Marricle. After a tense moment, the armies charge toward one another on the field of destiny. Thunder cracks across the sky, the heavens themselves ready to be town in twain! The stomping of feet and clanging of weapons grows, and just as they're about to collide -

We hear a bird chirping, amidst nothing but blue skies. We're in Sigurd's bedchambers, hundreds of miles away. Oifey shows up, bringing him breakfast. The bacon and eggs form a smiley face. Oh, and a surprise message from Lady Edain of Castle Jungby. Ah, Sigurd thinks, I should pay her a visit. But, whatever could she have to tell me this early in the day?

[Jotari]

20 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Here's how I envision Genealogy Remake starting:

A wide-open battlefield, beneath a cloud-covered sky, late in the day. One one side, the forces of Grannvale, led by Prince Kurth. Familiar faces - Lord Byron, Duke Reptor, Count Langbart - dressed in military fineries. On the other side, the swordsmen of Isaach, under their Crown Prince, Marricle. After a tense moment, the armies charge toward one another on the field of destiny. Thunder cracks across the sky, the heavens themselves ready to be town in twain! The stomping of feet and clanging of weapons grows, and just as they're about to collide -

We hear a bird chirping, amidst nothing but blue skies. We're in Sigurd's bedchambers, hundreds of miles away. Oifey shows up, bringing him breakfast. The bacon and eggs form a smiley face. Oh, and a surprise message from Lady Edain of Castle Jungby. Ah, Sigurd thinks, I should pay her a visit. But, whatever could she have to tell me this early in the day?

Oh wow. I would love that so much. Genealogy is great for having important stuff actually happening away from the protagonist. Not sure they'd go to the trouble of committing to a design for Marricle for a short fmv though (checking the wiki it looks like he actually does have a design already, from Fire Emblem treasure, but that's basically just Shannan).

[Acacia Sgt]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

(checking the wiki it looks like he actually does have a design already, from Fire Emblem treasure, but that's basically just Shannan).

And in turn that's also Od's design. XD

[joevar]

On 3/3/2023 at 8:10 AM, SnowFire said:

Okay, slight proviso here, none of them so long as the Engage cutscene-making team is in charge of things, some of the 3H cutscenes were okay. 

Engage Cutscene that features morion and hyacinth skirmish actually good imo. Its all in-engine cutscenes, but actually lots of 3D models, had scenes that shows things from afar, and had actual map instead of 3H and Engage usual convo cutscenes featuring cramped room with distorted jpeg as background.

3House Fmv with engage also incomparable. 3H use external animation studios for important scenes. No game assets were used, hand drawn scenes were instead used. While Engage cutscenes uses the game own assets, just like big budget modern games.

As for which has better choreography, i agree so far echoes and 3house still better by virtue it was made by 2D animation studio (khara, sanzigen) that knows how to make action anime. While 3D cutscnes in engage clearly shows IS still inexperienced in that field.

----------------

As for jotari question:

Any scene that have illustration for GBAFE, as for jugdral games i didnt play, so cant say.

As for style, use the 2D animation. Since its remake, so they wont experiment too much anyway so its going to be 100% outsourced by anime studio. 

3D pre rendered cutscenes only going to be good if they treat it with triple-A game budget with tech and capable devs to match

 

[Keikyushi]

10 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Here's how I envision Genealogy Remake starting:

A wide-open battlefield, beneath a cloud-covered sky, late in the day. One one side, the forces of Grannvale, led by Prince Kurth. Familiar faces - Lord Byron, Duke Reptor, Count Langbart - dressed in military fineries. On the other side, the swordsmen of Isaach, under their Crown Prince, Marricle. After a tense moment, the armies charge toward one another on the field of destiny. Thunder cracks across the sky, the heavens themselves ready to be town in twain! The stomping of feet and clanging of weapons grows, and just as they're about to collide -

We hear a bird chirping, amidst nothing but blue skies. We're in Sigurd's bedchambers, hundreds of miles away. Oifey shows up, bringing him breakfast. The bacon and eggs form a smiley face. Oh, and a surprise message from Lady Edain of Castle Jungby. Ah, Sigurd thinks, I should pay her a visit. But, whatever could she have to tell me this early in the day?

Oh wow, I can already see the scene in my head!

Slightly hot take I guess: I think for big battles, 2D-esque cutscene like in SoV are more suitable, since it carries more weight. 3D ones are perfectly fine for 1 on 1 fights, but they just feel weaker when the scale expands

[Zapp Branniglenn]

12 hours ago, Jotari said:

Oh wow. I would love that so much. Genealogy is great for having important stuff actually happening away from the protagonist.

For FE4, I always envision them doing big CG arts screens for the story's offscreen events, similar to what they relied on beginning in GBA era. Because they are events that Sigurd only ever hears about, we're left with the image that's in his head.

Of course, if they want to make more cutscenes than is dramatically necessary, I wouldn't stop them. Starting your game with a beautiful cutscene is just basic game design for drawing the player in to a world.

Sigurd meeting Dierdre should be something out of a Disney movie. Actually just make the whole game into a musical. 

Edit: FE4 Art CGs also play into the unreliable narrative of who Sigurd thinks are the allies and antagonists of those regional conflicts before he finds out in the worst way who's really out to get him. If they were cutscenes depicting events as they really happen then we have to busy ourselves over how to setup big twists - which risks spoiling things before they happen. Modern Fire Emblem has a remarkably bad grasp on foreshadowing because they keep cutting to offscreen events in that sort of objective context. Give the player less facts, more hearsay.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Zapp Branniglenn