Special Heroes: Spring Eternal

[Othin]

16 minutes ago, ARMADS!!! said:

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Really? The first ones ever?? I could swear that someone had a base stat of 47 on atk or def before (but maybe I'm misremembering it and it was an unit that had more than it on def accounting for skills and weapon bonus or whatever).

 

Even without skills, it's been possible with assets before, just not with unmodified neutral.

https://feheroes.fandom.com/wiki/Level_40_stats_table

From sorting the relevant stats top to bottom, previous units only go up to 46 in Atk/Spd/Def and 45 in Res.

[ARMADS!!!]

21 minutes ago, Othin said:

 

  Hide contents

Even without skills, it's been possible with assets before, just not with unmodified neutral.

https://feheroes.fandom.com/wiki/Level_40_stats_table

From sorting the relevant stats top to bottom, previous units only go up to 46 in Atk/Spd/Def and 45 in Res.

 

Spoiler

I was taking a look at the link and you can really see the powercreep just from this, like, most of the units with the highest or two or three highest numbers on each of the stats, almost always were released in 2023 or on the end of 2022. I mean, the year barely started and you can already notice the difference, I hadn't before but now that I stopped to think about it... (tbf, in res's case, they probably did it because they had to launch some units that could bypass N!Camilla's res check AND survive her attacks... They created that monster so now they had to find a way to deal with it, because without counterratack prevention is almost impossible!).

 

[Ice Dragon]

As far as power creep goes, it's really more accurate to look at the chart with Dragonflowers taken into account.

We've had several units with the equivalent of 47 base Atk on a newly released unit (i.e. 48 base Atk with maximum Dragonflowers) and one unit with the equivalent of 48 base Def.

[ARMADS!!!]

5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

As far as power creep goes, it's really more accurate to look at the chart with Dragonflowers taken into account.

We've had several units with the equivalent of 47 base Atk on a newly released unit (i.e. 48 base Atk with maximum Dragonflowers) and one unit with the equivalent of 48 base Def.

While it certainly is more acurate, you gotta spend a lot of extra resources to get some units to max dragon flowers (because for some reason they're as rare as they are...) while the new units get the max amount of stats they can for free (do we even call it base stats number when you account dragon flowers?) so while the powercreep becomes less noticeable, the newer units still have this obvious and giant advantage. I mean, not saying you're wrong at all, I understand your point, but most of the times you see a Dedue or a P!Surtr they won't be maxed on dragon flowes (specially since they already have good stats, so most people who don't have a shit ton of DF or who don't want to make these guys a max invest unit will use their dragon flowers in someone else), which means that you're very more likely to find a H!Duma, a Geoffrey or a V!Effie with higher atk since they get it for free.

 I gave a look at the list and even with dragon flowers every unit that can reach 46 of res was released this year, and more than half of the ones that can reach 45 were released this year or on 2022 (although as I blame N!Camilla for this, as I said before). Spd as well, every unit that can reach 47 (except for Freyja) was released this year, almost half of the units that can reach 46 or 45 spd were released this year on 2022 as well, so even so the is powercreep (it might look small but when you realize that a unit that released this year reaches the highest value despite using only 1 DF while every other unit that can use more than one reaches 46, 45 and usualy even less, it's pretty notiveable). Actually, I'm somewhat surprised that in the end this list is very mixed in terms of date of release of the units when you sort for highest Atk, Def or HP.

[Ice Dragon]

6 minutes ago, ARMADS!!! said:

While it certainly is more acurate, you gotta spend a lot of extra resources to get some units to max dragon flowers (because for some reason they're as rare as they are...) while the new units get the max amount of stats they can for free (do we even call it base stats number when you account dragon flowers?) so while the powercreep becomes less noticeable, the newer units still have this obvious and giant advantage. I mean, not saying you're wrong at all, I understand your point, but most of the times you see a Dedue or a P!Surtr they won't be maxed on dragon flowes (specially since they already have good stats, so most people who don't have a shit ton of DF or who don't want to make these guys a max invest unit will use their dragon flowers in someone else), which means that you're very more likely to find a H!Duma, a Geoffrey or a V!Effie with higher atk since they get it for free.

 I gave a look at the list and even with dragon flowers every unit that can reach 46 of res was released this year, and more than half of the ones that can reach 45 were released this year or on 2022 (although as I blame N!Camilla for this, as I said before). Spd as well, every unit that can reach 47 (except for Freyja) was released this year, almost half of the units that can reach 46 or 45 spd were released this year on 2022 as well, so even so the is powercreep (it might look small but when you realize that a unit that released this year reaches the highest value despite using only 1 DF while every other unit that can use more than one reaches 46, 45 and usualy even less, it's pretty notiveable). Actually, I'm somewhat surprised that in the end this list is very mixed in terms of date of release of the units when you sort for highest Atk, Def or HP.

If you are still using and investing in your older units, it's always optimal to spend the Dragonflowers on them to keep them up-to-date. While they need more Dragonflower investment in order to stay current, it's a form of investment that only they have access to. Additionally, players that don't have the resources to merge newer units will generally find more immediate value investing in strong older units due to their easier access to merges.

Furthermore, every 5 Dragonflower levels cost the exact same each time the cap is increased. If you're being frugal, it costs 240 Dragonflowers to get the first 3 levels (HP, Atk, and Spd on most offensive units), and then it costs 600 Dragonflowers to update the unit each year regardless of how many years it has been.

If you are thinking about comparing an older unit you are considering using to a newer unit you are considering using, it's always worth factoring in the stats the older units can receive from Dragonflowers. (And it's not like newer units are even eating up that many Dragonflowers if you're just going for 3 levels.)

 

And then there's also the fact that base stats really don't mean anything on their own. Most units have exclusive weapons (and some have exclusive passive skills), and those vary wildly in the amount of stats they provide, with refines on many weapons granting upwards of 10 points in Spd and many recent units having conditional effects that grant huge stat swings (like Clash-like skill effects).

Karla, for example, is somehow still one of the fastest units in the game, hitting 59 Spd with max Dragonflowers, a Spd Asset, and only her weapon equipped, and she reaches 61 Spd if you add in her Resplendent bonuses. While Alear has a higher Spd cap, hitting a maximum of 69 Spd, utilizing her movement capabilities makes it harder to activate the full effect, and a more reasonable situation of having only 1 ally within 3 spaces gives her 61 Spd, which is equal to Karla's Spd.

While Freyja has an excellent 47 base Spd on paper, she only reaches 53 Spd with her weapon equipped. Meanwhile, New Year Lethe reaches 62 Spd despite her base Spd stat being 2 points lower with Dragonflowers. On the other hand, Freyja has an extremely swingy exclusive B skill that can grant her the equivalent of 16 points of Spd, which is 12-13 points more than typical stat-boosting B skills (Trace, Tempo, Bulwark, etc.)

We can all ooh and aah at the really big base stats, but they're meaningless without considering what else a unit is capable of running. That super shiny 48 Spd on Harmonized Karla only translates to 58 Spd with her weapon equipped (yeah, she's slower than regular Karla). Meanwhile, the same super shiny 48 Spd on Spring Bernadetta translates to 68 Spd when teleporting the maximum distance (though it costs her 3 Spd that she could have had in her B slot).

[Mercakete]

20 hours ago, GrandeRampel said:

It's not IS that likes Freyja so much, it's the FEH community.

Just look at how good she placed in every single CYL she has been a part of. Most of the OCs tend to do very well in their first CYL, but they drop like a brick after that for a combination of reasons, but mostly because we get fresh new OCs every year.

She is together with the Askr trio and Fjorm (and a few others who I'm less sure about) one of the only OCs to defy this trend, getting 46th place in CYL 5, 22nd in CYL6 and 23rd in the most recent CYL 7.

And even if we discount the importance of CYL results because what really matters is sales, according to SensorTower's data both her debut banner with Triandra and her Summer Banner with her brother are among the most lucrative banners of their respective years.

No matter what criteria we use, Freyja has been one of their "best" OCs period, at the very least in the top 10 I would say. Which might partially explain why she is the backpack here. They might be trying to test if she can carry a banner's sales even as a backpack.

It's still perfectly fine to not like her and she is my least favorite from Book 4, but the majority has already decided.

Ah, I see. That's some interesting data; thanks. It's neat to think of the tactics behind picking characters, too. Like, as you said, "she tends to sell well, so let's see if she makes this banner sell well even though she's the supporting unit here." Maybe Karla was chosen specifically because she's only moderately popular, too -- it could be part of the test.

[Humanoid]

I sort of disliked Freyja but only because of that one story map with the infinite multiple Freyja's spawning in the corners. I'd long since tuned out of the story by then so I know absolutely nothing about the character otherwise though. I will say I do like her better than the fairies in that Book, if only because she's not one.

[Etrurian emperor]

13 hours ago, ARMADS!!! said:

 As crazy as it seems it does make sense, and I agree that the "stop pushing her, she's not gonna be popular" mentality might not be true to her as it wasn't to other irrelevant characters. What is happening to Karla now is kinda like what happened Reinhardt, Ishtar, Idunn and Altina, who became massively popular just for being good units in feh, despite being a bunch of nobodies before being purpousefully made popular. I mean:

I think Ishtar was always destined to be popular once introduced to the wider public. She's a Camus who's also a cute young woman, and reasonably tragic to boot. And I think Karla's a bit of a special case because she in particular is a nobody while the likes of Ishtar, Reinhardt and idunn are at least prominent. 

[Mercakete]

Okay, I just saw Bernie's damaged art and I have to say, I love her expression. Sure, she's shown that face before, but it's just so funny every time. X3 Also, I forgot to mention it, but I really do like this outfit on her. I think it suits her pretty well, and is just well-designed over all. (That said, I'm still kind of all "Wait, another one?" about another Bernie showing up.)

[GrandeRampel]

1 minute ago, Mercakete said:

Okay, I just saw Bernie's damaged art and I have to say, I love her expression. Sure, she's shown that face before, but it's just so funny every time. X3 Also, I forgot to mention it, but I really do like this outfit on her. I think it suits her pretty well, and is just well-designed over all. (That said, I'm still kind of all "Wait, another one?" about another Bernie showing up.)

I'm not sure why you are confused about Bernie showing up again. She has the same amount of versions as Dorothea and Lysithea and one version less than Hilda. All 4 being characters of comparable popularity.

You could also make the argument that she is more popular than the other three (granted you might lose said argument after examining all the data, I'm just saying that the argument can be made and appear reasonable at first glance. After all they made a figure of her, but not of Hilda/Dorothea) and that she is treated worse in Heroes because the other three got to lead a Duo unit and Bernie did not.

If anything I'm more confused about Ashe showing up instead of Felix and Sylvain who are more popular than him, but my theory is that they are both also getting a second version soon, and he just happened to fit the Spring theme better.

30 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think Ishtar was always destined to be popular once introduced to the wider public. She's a Camus who's also a cute young woman, and reasonably tragic to boot. And I think Karla's a bit of a special case because she in particular is a nobody while the likes of Ishtar, Reinhardt and idunn are at least prominent. 

I don't think Karla not being important for the plot of her game is something that matters when the other three appeared in games that are Japan only.

And even if they weren't Japan only they are all far too old. For the vast majority of Heroes' playerbase there was no difference between Ishtar and Karla at their debut. They were both "literally who?"s.

[Mercakete]

6 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

I'm not sure why you are confused about Bernie showing up again. She has the same amount of versions as Dorothea and Lysithea and one version less than Hilda. All 4 being characters of comparable popularity.

You could also make the argument that she is more popular than the other three (granted you might lose said argument after examining all the data, I'm just saying that the argument can be made and appear reasonable at first glance. After all they made a figure of her, but not of Hilda/Dorothea) and that she is treated worse in Heroes because the other three got to lead a Duo unit and Bernie did not.

If anything I'm more confused about Ashe showing up instead of Felix and Sylvain who are more popular than him, but my theory is that they are both also getting a second version soon, and he just happened to fit the Spring theme better.

My confusion isn't based on the data or anything. It's just my personal impression. Of course, I also feel like Dorothea, Lysithia, and Hilda have a confusing number of alts, too. It just feels disproportionate to the number of alts other minor characters from the same games have. I could see having 1 alt for now, but they just kind of keep coming, you know?

Also, yeah, I was kind of surprised to see Ashe here, too (for the reasons I've already stated for Bernie.) I agree that he suits this theme, though. He's on the more mild/easygoing side. And as far as popularity goes, he was one of the characters I saw talked about here and there when 3H was new, and he still seems relatively well-liked, but again, that's just based on my casual impression. I'm not complaining, though. He may be my favorite character from 3 Houses.

[GrandeRampel]

2 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

My confusion isn't based on the data or anything. It's just my personal impression. Of course, I also feel like Dorothea, Lysithia, and Hilda have a confusing number of alts, too. It just feels disproportionate to the number of alts other minor characters from the same games have. I could see having 1 alt for now, but they just kind of keep coming, you know?

Also, yeah, I was kind of surprised to see Ashe here, too (for the reasons I've already stated for Bernie.) I agree that he suits this theme, though. He's on the more mild/easygoing side. And as far as popularity goes, he was one of the characters I saw talked about here and there when 3H was new, and he still seems relatively well-liked, but again, that's just based on my casual impression. I'm not complaining, though. He may be my favorite character from 3 Houses.

Oh yeah, if you mean compared to other characters from the same game and if you feel the same way about Dorothea/Hilda I agree.

But IMHO what's weird isn't that Bernie has three versions, but that a lot of the base students should have three versions by now (maybe Linhardt and Ignatz and Leonie and the likes can live with two since they are less popular) and a select few like Felix should have 4 (he will forever be the weirdest case of them all since so much obvious popularity is being ignored for no reason).

Considering the popularity of the cast and how long they remained the newest game I would argue (and I know many don't want to hear it) that they deserved more seasonal slots and at least two more New Heroes banner than what they got, to at least bring out of seasonal hell the students who are clearly the focus of their games (two New Heroes banners mean Felix, Ashe, Dorothea, Caspar, Leonie, Sylvain, at minimum. This without considering instant demotes).

 

[ARMADS!!!]

6 hours ago, Humanoid said:

I sort of disliked Freyja but only because of that one story map with the infinite multiple Freyja's spawning in the corners. I'd long since tuned out of the story by then so I know absolutely nothing about the character otherwise though. I will say I do like her better than the fairies in that Book, if only because she's not one.

 Well, if don't mind spoilers about Freyja then basicaly:

 

Spoiler

Her reason to be a villain is because she's jealous of her brother Freyr's affection for humans and she doesn't like when he pays attention to them instead of her, she's extremely obssessed and possessive over Freyr just because he defended her when she was bullied as a kid for having an ugly sign on her nose or something like that (yeah, really, that was genuinely why... they could've just said that she liked Freyr because he was her brother and the only person she had or whatever but noooo) so now he can't like anyone else or she gets pissed. So yeah, she decided to make every person on the planet sleep and have nightmares forever over jealousy, to punish them for being loved by Freyr, because she is bratty. People probably like her because in the end of the story she voluntarily puts herself into a coma to ressurect Plumeria and Triandra, who had both gladly died fighting for her, because she realized that they truly loved her (she treated them both like crap up until this point since she hadn't realize that yet, only ever caring for Freyr's love and attention) but I find it strange that she gets so much love just over this, also Freyr dies because she's a brat (but she blames you for his death), and also too she just lost to Askr because she was dumb cause she had almost omnipotent powers on her nightmare realm and didn't use it.

 Her personality is to be a psycho, bratty, jealous, possessive and obssessed with her brother, and most people who like her are either because "goat mommy" or because they liked her "redemption"/sacrifice at the very end, because aside of this (and for her desing being good and looking cool) I genuinely cannot think of other motive to like her (maybe that she's a good unit? That must influence the hype in some way as well). 

 As you can tell I don't like Freyja at all, but the problem is that I find it hard to even get why someone would actually like her that much besides visual reasons. I even invite anyone that genuinely likes her to explain to me what's her appeal (in terms of personality and character, not appearence/design/goat mommy/etc). But yeah, if you wanted to know, that's basically Freyja's whole thing.

 

5 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think Ishtar was always destined to be popular once introduced to the wider public. She's a Camus who's also a cute young woman, and reasonably tragic to boot. And I think Karla's a bit of a special case because she in particular is a nobody while the likes of Ishtar, Reinhardt and idunn are at least prominent. 

 I'd think so as well, yeah, about Ishtar being destined to be popular after being introduced to the wider public, but the likes of Llloyd (or FE8 Selena, if you'd rather have a pretty woman as example) are not nearly as popular as Ishtar, even tough they follow the same archetype, so I take it that it must be because of her power as an unit as well (tbh I was really infatuated with Ishtar when she released on FEH as well, but I don't really know EXACTLY why, I can't point out what she has that Selena doesn't have). Selena even is a good person like Ishtar and helps people behind the emperor's back as well. (if you reply and decide to say any big spoiler about Selena, please mention which chapter you're gonna spoil and spoiler tag it because I'm playing FE8 right now and don't wanna know any more big spoilers, except that she dies because this is obvious, so I can read it after I finish the chapter you decide to spoil...).

4 hours ago, GrandeRampel said:

I don't think Karla not being important for the plot of her game is something that matters when the other three appeared in games that are Japan only.

And even if they weren't Japan only they are all far too old. For the vast majority of Heroes' playerbase there was no difference between Ishtar and Karla at their debut. They were both "literally who?"s.

 I agree with this, she might be less proeminent (or her existence be less important to the overall plot) than the others but she still has more personality than Reinhardt and Idunn, BUT even if she didn't she'd likely have the same chance of being popular as she does because as you said, no one knew her before anyway. She's basically presented as "Look at this pretty, (lore wise) powerful and cool swordswoman", and I gotta admit that when I first saw Karla on FEH I was pretty interested in her knowing only just her face and this description (what to do, the idea of this cool lady that gets looks for being both pretty and powerful appealed a lot to me), had her OG alt been more powerful she'd likely be more popular (Well, or maybe not, Malice's alt was fairly decent and I dont see anyone talking about her). Anyway, people really like the "pretty and cool swordmaster girl" trope in FE so I find it kinda strange that they haven't been trying to exploit the likes of Marisa, Fir, Ayra, Larcei and even Mia lately (specially since these are all popular among the community that played their games), maybe they decided that it was time to try to exploit another swordswoman (after seemingly giving up in Fir and Mia for some reason) besides Lyn and picked Karla because she's the one that had a sucessful alt lately.

 Also about what someone else said before, that Louise was less marketable for being a happily married woman, I just remembered that Karla is destined to be with Bartre so I wonder if she's somehow less marketable too because of this, or if fans would ignore this since the version we know of her only has him as a love interest/ship tease yet and not boyfriend or husband. I really think that Marisa, Mia or Fir would be easier to try to make popular than Karla but I guess that they didn't want to lose the window of hype that Karla could get because of that alt, which is something that the others didn't have.

[Etrurian emperor]

46 minutes ago, ARMADS!!! said:

 I'd think so as well, yeah, about Ishtar being destined to be popular after being introduced to the wider public, but the likes of Llloyd (or FE8 Selena, if you'd rather have a pretty woman as example) are not nearly as popular as Ishtar, even tough they follow the same archetype, so I take it that it must be because of her power as an unit as well (tbh I was really infatuated with Ishtar when she released on FEH as well, but I don't really know EXACTLY why, I can't point out what she has that Selena doesn't have). Selena even is a good person like Ishtar and helps people behind the emperor's back as well. (if you reply and decide to say any big spoiler about Selena, please mention which chapter you're gonna spoil and spoiler tag it because I'm playing FE8 right now and don't wanna know any more big spoilers, except that she dies because this is obvious, so I can read it after I finish the chapter you decide to spoil...).

I think there are two things that work in Ishtar's favor. The most obvious and superficial reason is that Ishtar's much younger. As far as JRPG standards go Selena is ''old'' which makes her less marketable. The second reason is that Ishtar's more openly vulnerable while Selena is more reserved about her plight. 

[Ice Dragon]

Y'all are looking too deep. Ishtar has a ponytail.

[Humanoid]

And scoliosis.

I actually did form a mildly negative impression of Ishtar based on her base version art, which looks a little silly to me. Subsequent alts have looked much better of course. That said, I tend to dislike that type of character, as I don't really perceive their loyalty to be a virtue. Having an actual brain, like Duessel, is much more laudable, plus he's super hot.

[ARMADS!!!]

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think there are two things that work in Ishtar's favor. The most obvious and superficial reason is that Ishtar's much younger. As far as JRPG standards go Selena is ''old'' which makes her less marketable. The second reason is that Ishtar's more openly vulnerable while Selena is more reserved about her plight. 

 Hmmm, both of this points actually make a lot of sense. Also thinking more about it I think that exploiting Ishtar's relationships was another thing that favoured her over Selena, since they revealed the whole "toxic" relationship between her and Julius and how devout she was to him regarldess of him changing (and people love vulnerable and devout waifus + since Julius is evil some fans would be able to either root for Ishtar to get out of this situation/create sympathy towards her or have that protective "I could save her/wish I could save her" or "if she was mine I'd treat her right and not let her devotion down" kinda thoughts towards her, kinda how people get protective over characters like Marianne or Bernadetta), then they exploited her relationship with Reinhardt, that was a character that people already liked, showing how much she appreciates him (even making several people start to ship the two, because he looked like a better alternative to Ishtar over Julius and genuinely cared about her). I guess that maybe her clothes might play a factor as well, Ishtar is a woman on a pretty and shiny dress that shows her entire legs and uses lots of shiny jewerly, while Selena uses pants and way less glamurous or revealing stuff (I think that because of this, Ishtar is more appelative even to straight woman since they're likely gonna be more interested on Ishtar's stunning and fancy dress than on Selena's clothes).

 Slightly unrelated point but I really like her lv 40 quote, it's hella sentimental and in the end a very good advice, even if I never found myself in a situation like the one she mentions in it, it's always a good thing to keep in mind and I feel like lots of people need to hear that phrase (the last line specially), and not only regarding romantic relationships. When I first read it I was kinda surprised that such a good line of advice was said in such a (this is gonna sound corny but it's true) educative(for lack of a better word) and simple way on a mobile game, it's a very simple and strong way to tell you to have self respect and never put yourself last even if it's out of love, and reading it after seeing Ishtar's situation and how she perhaps regrets doing what she knew that wasn't right because of someone else makes it even more impactful than if it came from anyone else.

 

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Y'all are looking too deep. Ishtar has a ponytail.

 yeah actually this is the most scientifically acurate motive out of them all, of course. And she has long hair which means that she already won!

 

49 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

And scoliosis.

I actually did form a mildly negative impression of Ishtar based on her base version art, which looks a little silly to me. Subsequent alts have looked much better of course. That said, I tend to dislike that type of character, as I don't really perceive their loyalty to be a virtue. Having an actual brain, like Duessel, is much more laudable, plus he's super hot.

 Haha I always liked her pose on the OG art, in spite of being cool (and the pose she had on FE4 and FE5 art, but more exagerated) it's a very intuitive way to show off literally every piece of clothing and acessory she uses at once (I gotta admit that I like her attack and special poses more tough, because they're awesome!). Also I really like these camus characters but on Ishtar's case, at least on feh, her thing is that she actually regrets not doing what she thought to be right and to put loyalty before her sense of right and wrong so she works as kind of a reversion of the "trope", so much that her ascendant version is about her doing what she thought was right instead of following Julius to the end.

 No one ever said Duessel wasn't hot too tough, we don't have bad taste! (btw, I always liked how amazingly well Duessel's and Selena's faces were drawn on their feh arts, I can't quite explain but in some way they were one of the most frightenly faithful caricatures that were made on the game that I can think of, literally every single detail of their faces are on spot).

[Sunwoo]

The only "Camus archetype" character I really am okay with his Reinhardt, and I do think a big part of that is because his direct boss is a Camus herself. I have to rely on a lot of speculation just because Thracia never really goes into a lot of detail about how much he is privy to Ishtar's thoughts and actions on things, but I think it's reasonable to assume he sees her distaste for the child hunts and she's meant to be a nicer, more noble character.

It's a bit more understandable than ... I don't know, Shiharam and Bryce dying in the service of a country and/or a king that disrespects and mocks them, and makes them go against their creeds, or Selena realizing that the emperor she loved is dead but still choosing to do what she does. Or Eldigan. Or Camus. I also do appreciate that Thracia makes it clear that despite being considered a noble knight, the narrative itself criticizes Reinhardt for choosing to stay with Friege, which he seemingly knows is doing bad things, purely due to "duty to country" and "loyalty".

Like, Ishtar's okay ... but something about her as a character doesn't quite do it for me. Perhaps it's because I feel like the game sometimes tries to cram how sympathetic she's supposed to be down my throat rather than just letting me decide for myself. A lot of the Camuses, now that I think about it, doesn't seem to quite get the level of in-universe criticism of their actions from people around them the way Reinhardt apparently does. I mean, no matter what happens to him, his sister will always despise him in the end if she lives.

To get back onto the topic of spring bunnies ... I really do think they're shooting themselves in the foot by refusing to let non-lord males lead Harmonics. Even if Karla had a "claim" to be here because of her connection with Bartre and Fir, she didn't need to be the Harmonic. Or present this year, even. How about we give Canas a busted Harmonic lead after the utter disrespect they showed his base self?

[Mercakete]

22 hours ago, GrandeRampel said:

Oh yeah, if you mean compared to other characters from the same game and if you feel the same way about Dorothea/Hilda I agree.

But IMHO what's weird isn't that Bernie has three versions, but that a lot of the base students should have three versions by now (maybe Linhardt and Ignatz and Leonie and the likes can live with two since they are less popular) and a select few like Felix should have 4 (he will forever be the weirdest case of them all since so much obvious popularity is being ignored for no reason).

Considering the popularity of the cast and how long they remained the newest game I would argue (and I know many don't want to hear it) that they deserved more seasonal slots and at least two more New Heroes banner than what they got, to at least bring out of seasonal hell the students who are clearly the focus of their games (two New Heroes banners mean Felix, Ashe, Dorothea, Caspar, Leonie, Sylvain, at minimum. This without considering instant demotes).

 

I actually agree, to an extent. IS needs to balance all these games of course, but there is also the fact that new games will naturally have 0 representation, leading to a bunch of banners from the new game at a time (especially as other games run out of characters to field.) There's player fatigue to mind, too. Personally, I think that they could just put more variety into who they make alts of, and that should help almost every area of concern here, especially among FEH fans. Gacha fans (especially waifu whales) are the only group who they may lose some popularity with. Of course, projects need funding in order for them to be worth continuing, and waifu whales are a valuable customer base, so I understand IS trying to balance appealing to various segments of their fanbase (including casual FE players who don't go as deep into characters/stories as more "thorough" fans, and will gravitate towards main characters/characters they find attractive.) Taking all this into consideration, they're not doing a bad job balancing their various factions of customers' desires, and probably what they, themselves, want to make. That said, there's also the principle of self-fulfilling prophesies. If you use waifu bait, you'll get customers who are attracted to that kind of bait. Basically, whatever you choose as a draw will determine what sort of audience you have -- there is never "no choice" for a creator. You just have to decide your priorities. Your audience will find you (with proper marketing.)

... That got more complex than I meant it to be. Uhh I guess the simple version is that I get where IS is coming from and for their goals, they're doing okay. But I agree that it would be nice to have more balance between who gets more alts (or even just gets into the game), and I think that could have been smoothed out just by changing around who gets an alt and who doesn't, without necessarily adding a bunch more banners. (3H fatigue is already present, even though it makes sense that new games need to flood a bit in order to make up the difference in representation in Heroes.)

 

16 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Y'all are looking too deep. Ishtar has a ponytail.

14 hours ago, Humanoid said:

And scoliosis.

Long hair tied back into a ponytail is my typical hairstyle. That this seems to grant power still mystifies me.

Anyway, heh, yeah. I remember seeing art of her in the old FE4 TCG (I never saw the cards in person; there was an image in the FE4 section here on SF; not sure if it's still there) and I remember staring in confusion at her knee facing a completely different way from the foot attached to it. This is not healthy. Someone get this woman to a doctor. And while you're at it, a therapist.

[Humanoid]

I'm fond of simple, practical hairstyles so for me it's not ponytails per se, but a fairly common subset of them. Think level, centred, minimal adornment. Geez, now I have to scroll through the list of all units to find examples. Turns out in Fire Emblem these are actually not all that common. Think Catherine, Clarine, Eyvel, and perhaps best of all, Jorge. It's just a coincidence that all of them are blondes, by the way, actually maybe Daniel's is better than Jorge's.

Beyond ponytails I tend to prefer shorter hairstyles, but I am not scrolling through the list again.

[Mercakete]

5 hours ago, Humanoid said:

I'm fond of simple, practical hairstyles so for me it's not ponytails per se, but a fairly common subset of them. Think level, centred, minimal adornment. Geez, now I have to scroll through the list of all units to find examples. Turns out in Fire Emblem these are actually not all that common. Think Catherine, Clarine, Eyvel, and perhaps best of all, Jorge. It's just a coincidence that all of them are blondes, by the way, actually maybe Daniel's is better than Jorge's.

Beyond ponytails I tend to prefer shorter hairstyles, but I am not scrolling through the list again.

High and mid-level (on the head) ponytails are deceptively difficult, especially for long hair. They become easier with more stuff in the hair to hold it in place (like hair pins or bobby pins), though. I just put mine into a low ponytail most of the time because I just want it off my neck/ears and out of my way, but still like wearing it long. I'd like to wear it as a high/mid-level ponytail, but every time I do that it winds up lower than I want, and it tiers my arms out trying to wrestle with it for who-knows-how-long without bits sticking up all over the place on the scalp before the hair tie, and then a bunch of tangled bits around where you wind up tying it in place. Personally, I'm not trying anything more complicated than a braid. I'm sure it would be easier if I wasn't exclusively relying on hair ties (and not even more than 1 size of them) to put everything in place.

Edit: Well, I got Ashe pretty fast. Even +1'd him (spd boon even.) And then I started playing around with a build (I haven't really tried to come up with a good build in a while, not that I put in as much effort this time as I used to) and began wishing for Close Dart. Not sure if it exists, but if it did, it would go nicely on my Bunny Ashe. So, here's what I've got (and dang does it cost a BUNCH of SP): Bunny Egg+ (the weapon he comes with), Reposition, Lethality (may was well since I don't often use daggers and had a spare Volke manual), Close Counter (Distant Dart requires Distant Counter, so I figured I may as well get the jump on assumed prereq skills. If I never get access to it, that's fine, though), QR4 (felt like a bit of a waste for Ganglot's special skill inheritance, but it layered so nicely with his base weapon and my Ganglot has the inverse of her ideal boon/bane anyway, so I figured I'd just use this copy as a merge someday), Atk/Spd Reign (eh, it works and he came with it.)

I generally am an EP fighter anyway, so I decided to make him somewhat mixed-phase with a focus on countering somewhat hard, then follow-up pursuit. Of course, I'm assuming the DR from his weapon stacks with QR4. That could have been a blunder since I didn't bother looking into it ahead of time, but I didn't see any notes about DR not stacking, so I just went for it. I can always adjust things later (even if I can't undo inheritance.)

Edited March 7, 2023 by Mercakete

[ARMADS!!!]

20 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

The only "Camus archetype" character I really am okay with his Reinhardt, and I do think a big part of that is because his direct boss is a Camus herself. I have to rely on a lot of speculation just because Thracia never really goes into a lot of detail about how much he is privy to Ishtar's thoughts and actions on things, but I think it's reasonable to assume he sees her distaste for the child hunts and she's meant to be a nicer, more noble character.

It's a bit more understandable than ... I don't know, Shiharam and Bryce dying in the service of a country and/or a king that disrespects and mocks them, and makes them go against their creeds, or Selena realizing that the emperor she loved is dead but still choosing to do what she does. Or Eldigan. Or Camus. I also do appreciate that Thracia makes it clear that despite being considered a noble knight, the narrative itself criticizes Reinhardt for choosing to stay with Friege, which he seemingly knows is doing bad things, purely due to "duty to country" and "loyalty".

To get back onto the topic of spring bunnies ... I really do think they're shooting themselves in the foot by refusing to let non-lord males lead Harmonics. Even if Karla had a "claim" to be here because of her connection with Bartre and Fir, she didn't need to be the Harmonic. Or present this year, even. How about we give Canas a busted Harmonic lead after the utter disrespect they showed his base self?

 I'd actually buy Selena as a better Camus if she hadn't realized that Vigarde is probably not the man she swore to serve and then kept fighting, because if it was blind loyalty to Vigarde himself (or at least who she believed to be Vigarde himself) it'd sound less strange since she had motives to admire him and wanted to make his vision become true anyway, that's why she made her knightly vows to HIM (y'know, the actual and normal emperor Vigarde), so had it been normal Vigarde who one day started a war it'd make more sense for her to be so fiercely loyal and to be willing to dirt her hands for the future and best interests of Grado and himself (after all a lot of player characters have done things that they'd rather not do, just because they were following the best interests of their lords too, such as Lucius agreeing to help/support Raven in his decision to try to kill Hector even if he tried to change Raven's mind first, or Miledy betraying Bern with Guinevere and even being willing to kill the man she loved because of her lady (and she betrays Bern because it is what Guinivere thinks to be right, not her), yet we never question their blind loyalty or see it as bad because they're on the good side so they don't look dumb because we know they'll win, I'm pretty sure that Seth would do pretty horrible things for Eirika had she suddenly started to have interests that didn't align with his, same for Kent and Sain for Lyn, or Alen and Lance for Roy (they even say that they'd gladly die for him because of their vows), or Marcus for Eliwood, etc).

 In any case there are some Camus that make a lot of sense to me, such as Lloyd. While he and Linus likely knew that there's something wrong with Sonia, there's nothing they could do to convince their dad (and if they did, then Sonia and Nergal would probably go after them for running away), so he just sticks with his family and the whole shit he knows until the end, hoping to survive instead of trying to beat Nergal (which for him looks foolish for obvious reasons, specially since he'd likely have to battle his father and borther if he was against Nergal anyway), also if Nergal wins he's not expecting to die soon anyway (sure, Nergal kills his dad later and would likely kill him and Linus to use as morphs too if they hadn't died in your hands, but Lloyd couldn't know this before it happened), so... Why would he even join you? His options are either follow Nergal and probably survive, or betray Nergal and die + have to fight against his family/have them die as well on Nergal's hands. Or Brunnya, she fights solely because she wants to protect Zephiel so whether he's wrong or not doesn't concern her (and I'm not even sure if she knows all the details of his plan and how it would affect the world anyway, or if she knew and was convinced by Zephiel that everything was in control or that it was a good idea, but in any case she didn't seem to have a strong feeing AGAINST Zephiel's plans either), she just wants to protect the man she loves, and as lots of people she's willing to die to defend the person she loves if she has to, her case is way simpler but it doesn't look like she's defending Zephiel for being dumb or because she's a crazy patriot willing to die for a piece of land that never did anything for her or for someone that istn't himself anymore (like on Selena's case), but rather that it was a conscient decision that she'd have to stay with Bern to protect him and that this seemed to be worth it for her.

I'm not trying to force you to like the Camus archetype or anything, I just saying why I don't think that most of them are as dumb. Even, several characters that are the opposite of Camuses, AKA who betrayed their countries to do what they thought was right, such as Natasha, Knoll, Salem, Jaffar,...  were also taking a big risk and willing to die for what they thought was worth it (except that in this case it was their beliefs rather than loyalty), except that in their cases they were even less likely to survive since they're going against the side that is stronger, sure they valued their own beliefs, but isn't it also "dumb" to be willing to die over it as well? I think not, each one of us do what we feel we have to do even if we don't personally agree with it as being the "right" thing or if it's the thing that requires more risks to be taken,  and I find it cool that FE reflects this and doesn't make everyone stick with the countries they think are right, even if they are ultimately good people at heart (such as Ishtar and Selena, even tough Selena was dumb for staying after realizing that Vigarde wasn't the same man anymore but before this I wouldn't call her dumb), because if it was real life I'm pretty sure that several people would be "Camuses" and stay with their own nation even knowing it's wrong (for any non selfish motive motive such as: love for their country, to protect someone, for duty, love, friendship, family, patriotism, vows, etc..., maybe a mix of more than one even) while other several people would be willing to take massive risks and even betray loved ones and abandoning their own sense of security for doing what they personally believe to be right, none of these is wrong it's just priotities, I think. Also I agree with you that it's a nice touch that FE5 critizes being blindly loyal to your country but I still think that in several cases it's certainly not dumb to be willing to die out of loyaly, if thats what's worth for you.

 About the spring banner tough, yeah I don't get why they always make the men be the shittiest units specially since the extremely popular waifus would sell even if they weren't stellar units while anyone less popular than that requires being really good to sell well. For me the biggest example of this is how much of a shitty unit Thief Sothe was, it's sad because I really wanted him just for being Sothe but after seeing how much better than him Duo Nina and Leila were I just decided that it wasn't worth it to waste my orbs (I mean, he's basically Thief Rickard, that was free, but a green dagger), and Sothe is a character that could sell a lot if he was good because he is relatively popular as well, just not enough to sell on his own if he's not a good unit (and he didn't even had to be stellar, just good enough for that banner, and also not just like the freebie but with a different weapon type). I absolutely agree with what you said about having more non lord men in duos and harmonics, for me they didn't even had to be the lead, just being present would be enough at this point, I find it sad that when they put a man on a duo/harmonic it has to be either a pair of siblings with a woman or a couple (except Hector+Lilina but again, he's a lord as well), the only exception ever is Veronica+Xander and still Xander a pretty popular character (not sure if he counts as a lord tough) but alas in his case it's justifiable since he's the once that is Veronica's retainer (and certainly it's better than not having him here, like if it was Veronica+Loki or whatever instead of Xander). In male-male cases (that are already rare) it's even worse since it always involves 2 lords at once and with the exception of Eliwood+Roy, always ship teasing as well to try to get the fangirls to pay for it, because for some reason, apparently no one will pay for two platonic dudes together even if they're a good unit (even Leif+Seliph relies on the fangirls, you can see how they avoid mentioning that they're cousins like the plague, it isn't said even once, even tough they talk about their heritages during the whole alt). About Canas though, I don't think that he was that disrespected (or rather, the disrespect was compensated) since his prf and refine ended up being pretty good (and the prf is even good enough to be used reliably without the refine), although I'd never complain about him being part of an harmonic/duo or getting another alt (or anything really...), I know that it'll never happen but it'd be pretty nice to see an harmonic between him and Raigh since both of them are distantly related + Canas is Niime's son and Raigh is Niime's student + Canas studies dark magic solely for the knowledge not caring about the power while Raigh studies dark magic solely for the power, it'd be nice to see some interactions between them (although if it involved either Canas or Raigh, I'd take literally ANYTHING).

 

9 hours ago, Humanoid said:

I'm fond of simple, practical hairstyles so for me it's not ponytails per se, but a fairly common subset of them. Think level, centred, minimal adornment. Geez, now I have to scroll through the list of all units to find examples. Turns out in Fire Emblem these are actually not all that common. Think Catherine, Clarine, Eyvel, and perhaps best of all, Jorge. It's just a coincidence that all of them are blondes, by the way, actually maybe Daniel's is better than Jorge's.

Beyond ponytails I tend to prefer shorter hairstyles, but I am not scrolling through the list again.

8 hours ago, Mercakete said:

High and mid-level (on the head) ponytails are deceptively difficult, especially for long hair. They become easier with more stuff in the hair to hold it in place (like hair pins or bobby pins), though. I just put mine into a low ponytail most of the time because I just want it off my neck/ears and out of my way, but still like wearing it long. I'd like to wear it as a high/mid-level ponytail, but every time I do that it winds up lower than I want, and it tiers my arms out trying to wrestle with it for who-knows-how-long without bits sticking up all over the place on the scalp before the hair tie, and then a bunch of tangled bits around where you wind up tying it in place. Personally, I'm not trying anything more complicated than a braid. I'm sure it would be easier if I wasn't exclusively relying on hair ties (and not even more than 1 size of them) to put everything in place.

  Ponytails are certainly more practical than almost any other hairstyles (except for braids, or maybe doing something like wrapping your hair into a hair scarf (or whatever is the most normal term for this in english, I feel like there's a better word for it but I think that you can understand what I mean...) or using it inside of an elm or helmet), I mean imagine trying to fight with your hair down, I don't even like to play sports without tying up mine... That's why people have that impression that it "grants" power (although it certainly wouldn't make any difference if you tied the long part of your hair and let your bangs falling in your face like Ishtar, Lyn, Catherine, Eyvel, Daniel, etc... basically everyone but Jorge and Shinon do, but people still have that impression because it's kinda like when you look at a woman fighting in super high heels on a videogame and thinks that it's not practical but then you look at another one with medium heels and it suddenly looks practical because it's less impractical in comparision to the high heels... Maybe I explained in a somewhat confusing way but basically tied up hair, even if impractical when your bangs fall on your face will always be less impractical than fighting with your hair down so people look at a character with a ponytail and have this impression).

Tbh it depends on the way your hair is too, I can tie my hair on a mid ponytail (or high, if I tie it tight, but I don't like it because then you can see the hair tie marks when you put it down again, this also tends to happens when you tie it low unless it's VERY loose) and play sports with no problems, but my hair is hella long, thick (but not heavy?) and not CLOSE to straight (look up Orlando James' hair for reference, except that his is better looking, and mine might be a little longer) so maybe mine can hold itself easier on a hairstyle better than the average person (I mean, I can put it up on a bun without using a hair tie or any kind or any kind of hair pin and it'll stay like that without any need to be rajusted for at least an hour or two, most of the times, if thats worth something), but in any case my point is that unless the ponytail is very close to the top of the head (unless tied tightly) then it's be very much usable for me, and I think that this is the case for most people with thick, and at least wavy hair. On the other hand there are people with hella straight hair that cannot tie their hair up with hair ties at all because they will slide down every time (I might be wrong now, but I take it that that's why japanese and chinese women used to tie their hairs up with those kanzashi, both the ones that look like a comb and the "hair sticks", in the ancient times, because there's no way that those things will slide down, since they have long "needles"). Of course, when they design a character they will not think about whether her hair will be confortable to use on a mid or high ponytail based on her hair type or not, I'm just saying that non low ponytails can be very doable with long hair, depending on the type. (Gosh, I really just wrote two whole ass paragraphs about ponytails on a FE forum...).

Edited March 8, 2023 by ARMADS!!!

[Mercakete]

49 minutes ago, ARMADS!!! said:

 I'd actually buy Selena as a better Camus if she hadn't realized that Vigarde is probably not the man she swore to serve and then kept fighting, because if it was blind loyalty to Vigarde himself (or at least who she believed to be Vigarde himself) it'd sound less strange since she had motives to admire him and wanted to make his vision become true anyway, that's why she made her knightly vows to HIM (y'know, the actual and normal emperor Vigarde), so had it been normal Vigarde who one day started a war it'd make more sense for her to be so fiercely loyal and to be willing to dirt her hands for the future and best interests of Grado and himself (after all a lot of player characters have done things that they'd rather not do, just because they were following the best interests of their lords too, such as Lucius agreeing to help/support Raven in his decision to try to kill Hector even if he tried to change Raven's mind first, or Miledy betraying Bern with Guinevere and even being willing to kill the man she loved because of her lady (and she betrays Bern because it is what Guinivere thinks to be right, not her), yet we never question their blind loyalty or see it as bad because they're on the good side so they don't look dumb because we know they'll win, I'm pretty sure that Seth would do pretty horrible things for Eirika had she suddenly started to have interests that didn't align with his, same for Kent and Sain for Lyn, or Alen and Lance for Roy (they even say that they'd gladly die for him because of their vows), or Marcus for Eliwood, etc).

 In any case there are some Camus that make a lot of sense to me, such as Lloyd. While he and Linus likely knew that there's something wrong with Sonia, there's nothing they could do to convince their dad (and if they did, then Sonia and Nergal would probably go after them for running away), so he just sticks with his family and the whole shit he knows until the end, hoping to survive instead of trying to beat Nergal (which for him looks foolish for obvious reasons, specially since he'd likely have to battle his father and borther if he was against Nergal anyway), also if Nergal wins he's not expecting to die soon anyway (sure, Nergal kills his dad later and would likely kill him and Linus to use as morphs too if they hadn't died in your hands, but Lloyd couldn't know this before it happened), so... Why would he even join you? His options are either follow Nergal and probably survive, or betray Nergal and die + have to fight against his family/have them die as well on Nergal's hands. Or Brunnya, she fights solely because she wants to protect Zephiel so whether he's wrong or not doesn't concern her (and I'm not even sure if she knows all the details of his plan and how it would affect the world anyway, or if she knew and was convinced by Zephiel that everything was in control or that it was a good idea, but in any case she didn't seem to have a strong feeing AGAINST Zephiel's plans either), she just wants to protect the man she loves, and as lots of people she's willing to die to defend the person she loves if she has to, her case is way simpler but it doesn't look like she's defending Zephiel for being dumb or because she's a crazy patriot willing to die for a piece of land that never did anything for her or for someone that istn't himself anymore (like on Selena's case), but rather that it was a conscient decision that she'd have to stay with Bern to protect him and that this seemed to be worth it for her.

I'm not trying to force you to like the Camus archetype or anything, I just saying why I don't think that most of them are as dumb. Even, several characters that are the opposite of Camuses, AKA who betrayed their countries to do what they thought was right, such as Natasha, Knoll, Salem, Jaffar,...  were also taking a big risk and willing to die for what they thought was worth it (except that in this case it was their beliefs rather than loyalty), except that in their cases they were even less likely to survive since they're going against the side that is stronger, sure they valued their own beliefs, but isn't it also "dumb" to be willing to die over it as well? I think not, each one of us do what we feel we have to do even if we don't personally agree with it as being the "right" thing or if it's the thing that requires more risks to be taken,  and I find it cool that FE reflects this and doesn't make everyone stick with the countries they think are right, even if they are ultimately good people at heart (such as Ishtar and Selena, even tough Selena was dumb for staying after realizing that Vigarde wasn't the same man anymore but before this I wouldn't call her dumb), because if it was real life I'm pretty sure that several people would be "Camuses" and stay with their own nation even knowing it's wrong (for any non selfish motive motive such as: love for their country, to protect someone, for duty, love, friendship, family, patriotism, vows, etc..., maybe a mix of more than one even) while other several people would be willing to take massive risks and even betray loved ones and abandoning their own sense of security for doing what they personally believe to be right, none of these is wrong it's just priotities, I think. Also I agree with you that it's a nice touch that FE5 critizes being blindly loyal to your country but I still think that in several cases it's certainly not dumb to be willing to die out of loyaly, if thats what's worth for you.

 About the spring banner tough, yeah I don't get why they always make the men be the shittiest units specially since the extremely popular waifus would sell even if they weren't stellar units while anyone less popular than that requires being really good to sell well. For me the biggest example of this is how much of a shitty unit Thief Sothe was, it's sad because I really wanted him just for being Sothe but after seeing how much better than him Duo Nina and Leila were I just decided that it wasn't worth it to waste my orbs (I mean, he's basically Thief Rickard, that was free, but a green dagger), and Sothe is a character that could sell a lot if he was good because he is relatively popular as well, just not enough to sell on his own if he's not a good unit (and he didn't even had to be stellar, just good enough for that banner, and also not just like the freebie but with a different weapon type). I absolutely agree with what you said about having more non lord men in duos and harmonics, for me they didn't even had to be the lead, just being present would be enough at this point, I find it sad that when they put a man on a duo/harmonic it has to be either a pair of siblings with a woman or a couple (except Hector+Lilina but again, he's a lord as well), the only exception ever is Veronica+Xander and still Xander a pretty popular character (not sure if he counts as a lord tough) but alas in his case it's justifiable since he's the once that is Veronica's retainer (and certainly it's better than not having him here, like if it was Veronica+Loki or whatever instead of Xander). In male-male cases (that are already rare) it's even worse since it always involves 2 lords at once and with the exception of Eliwood+Roy, always ship teasing as well to try to get the fangirls to pay for it, because for some reason, apparently no one will pay for two platonic dudes together even if they're a good unit (even Leif+Seliph relies on the fangirls, you can see how they avoid mentioning that they're cousins like the plague, it isn't said even once, even tough they talk about their heritages during the whole alt). About Canas though, I don't think that he was that disrespected (or rather, the disrespect was compensated) since his prf and refine ended up being pretty good (and the prf is even good enough to be used reliably without the refine), although I'd never complain about him being part of an harmonic/duo or getting another alt (or anything really...), I know that it'll never happen but it'd be pretty nice to see an harmonic between him and Raigh since both of them are distantly related + Canas is Niime's son and Raigh is Niime's student + Canas studies dark magic solely for the knowledge not caring about the power while Raigh studies dark magic solely for the power, it'd be nice to see some interactions between them (although if it involved either Canas or Raigh, I'd take literally ANYTHING).

 

  Ponytails are certainly more practical than almost any other hairstyles (except for braids, or maybe doing something like wrapping your hair into a hair scarf (or whatever is the most normal term for this in english, I feel like there's a better word for it but I think that you can understand what I mean...) or using it inside of an elm or helmet), I mean imagine trying to fight with your hair down, I don't even like to play sports without tying up mine... That's why people have that impression that it "grants" power (although it certainly wouldn't make any difference if you tied the long part of your hair and let your bangs falling in your face like Ishtar, Lyn, Catherine, Eyvel, Daniel, etc... basically everyone but Jorge and Shinon do, but people still have that impression because it's kinda like when you look at a woman fighting in super high heels on a videogame and thinks that it's not practical but then you look at another one with medium heels and it suddenly looks practical because it's less impractical in comparision to the high heels... Maybe I explained in a somewhat confusing way but basically tied up hair, even if impractical when your bangs fall on your face will always be less impractical than fighting with your hair down so people look at a character with a ponytail and have this impression).

Tbh it depends on the way your hair is too, I can tie my hair on a mid ponytail (or high, if I tie it tight, but I don't like it because then you can see the hair tie marks when you put it down again, this also tends to happens when you tie it low unless it's VERY loose) and play sports with no problems, but my hair is hella long, thick (but not heavy?) and not CLOSE to straight (look up Orlando James' hair for reference, except that his is better looking, and mine might be a little longer) so maybe mine can hold itself easier on a hairstyle better than the average person (I mean, I can put it up on a bun without using a hair tie or any kind or any kind of hair pin and it'll stay like that without any need to be rajusted for at least an hour or two, most of the times, if thats worth something), but in any case my point is that unless the ponytail is very close to the top of the head (unless tied tightly) then it's be very much usable for me, and I think that this is the case for most people with thick, and at least wavy hair. On the other hand there are people with hella straight hair that cannot tie their hair up with hair ties at all because they will slide down every time (I might be wrong now, but I take it that that's why japanese and chinese women used to tie their hairs up with those kanzashi, both the ones that look like a comb and the "hair sticks", in the ancient times, because there's no way that those things will slide down, since they have long "needles"). Of course, when they design a character they will not think about whether her hair will be confortable to use on a mid or high ponytail based on her hair type or not, I'm just saying that non low ponytails can be very doable with long hair, depending on the type. (Gosh, I really just wrote two whole ass paragraphs about ponytails on a FE forum...).

Heheh! Valid, though! Indeed, texture, thickness, curliness, etc. are all factors. My hair is wavy, but also feathery and silky (when clean. Gets oily easily, so I need to wash it every day.) So, it can be hard to get it where I'm trying to keep it (especially since my hair is also very long, which doesn't feel heavy on my head, but sure does when I hold it up for an hour or two trying to get it to stay in a high pony and settling for a mid one.) Also, I have to say, fighting with your hair down is possible, but only so long as you have a hairband to keep it behind your ears (like Mia from Tellius.) I used to do that (fight with long hair down, that is.) I was surprised that it was more practical than I'd thought it would be. That said, when I was in more intensive training, I had my hair very short. That was partially because I was tired of it falling all over the place, though (such as when I'd try to do push-ups.) I've grown it out again since then.

Ah, but then there's the other side of it when applies to fantasy character designs: not all fighters are melee fighters. Only Roy and Marth are. It seems to me that mages can wear their hair however they want to without it getting too in the way during combat (especially since they're probably not on the front lines.) That said, I could just see a mage casting a wind spell and accidentally getting tangled up in his/her long hair... Pegasus knights also should probably not have unbound long hair either (high wind going around everywhere) but they're typically a mess when it comes to practicality in design anyway. (Wear leg protection. Riding an animal chafes, and probably especially so when you have to worry about dramatic movement in three dimensions instead of just two.)

[Sunwoo]

2 hours ago, ARMADS!!! said:

I'm not trying to force you to like the Camus archetype or anything, I just saying why I don't think that most of them are as dumb.

Well it's a good thing I never said that most of them were dumb, did I.

[defensedefumer]

Here is my playthrough with Bernadetta as the bonus unit: