Is Malledus the player character of Shadow Dragon?

[Jotari]

Malledus is a weird character. As pointed out in this hilarious (and unfortunately short) FE1 parody comic thing http://shaym.in/fe1/chapter3.html, he gets absolutely no formal introduction. He's just the guy that shows up because Marth needs someone to talk to and the idea of a retreating character hadn't been invented. And then he doesn't show up at all in Mystery of the Emblem (or rather Book 2) because they wanted to have Jagen fill that role. Did he die between games? Did Hardin kill him when Altea was sacked? Marth strangely seems to not care at all.

But, what about that click bait title. Why would this old guy be the player character? Well...because he's Marth's tactician. And long after FE1, Blazing Blade introduced the idea that the tactician in the player in the form of Mark. This was an idea reinforced in Awakening where Robin was Chrom's tactician. Then after Robin they decided to merge the Tactician and Lord roles into one and we got Avatars as they are standard. So, if Tactician = The one directing the forces = The player character making unit choices, then isn't Malledus and not Marth the guy you're playing as in Shadow Dragon?

Well, no, because even as early as New Mystery the idea of tactician was divorced from Avatar as Kris was very pointedly not a Tactician, he was a body guard for Marth. So much so was he not the official tactician that they even introduced a new Katarina as a tactician in training and Kris as not doing that specific career path. There's also the case of Oifey who is Sigurd's tactician in Gen 1 of Genealogy but then a player character in Gen 2 who can die. So is Oifey the player character for Gen 1 but then Lewyn or someone else is for Gen 2 even though Lewyn isn't there for all of chapter 6? The idea doesn't really connect.

But, people did pick up on Oifey's role as a tactician and people have suggested Oifey be retooled into the Avatar of Genealogy of the Holy War. I've never seen anyone suggest that for Shadow Drgaon and Malledus though. Probably because Shadow Dragon already got remade twice already and it would be pushing the envelope a bit far to remake it a third time (even though there is more you can do with it...like give real personalities to the characters). Also...if Malledus did get to become an avatar, would the balding old man we love don't care about be the default Avatar appearance? And what would his female counterpart look like (would she still be bald!). His design would certainly stand out among the cast of Avatars if he ever did get to fullfill that role!

Eh, anyway, shower thoughts. Feel free to say what you think about Malledus and his role in the game both narratively and mechanically.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Jotari

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

shrug I guess so.

I'd assume that, when FE1 came out, Kaga didn't see a "player character" as necessary. The player was just... the player. Controlling a bunch of different characters. In theory, Malledus has this same job in universe... but it doesn't make sense for him to be directing certain characters. Such as Hardin and the Wolfguard in chapter 5, or the imprisoned Archanean Knights in chapter 12. Likewise, I don't imagine that Oifey is telling the "Blaggi Peninsula Three" what to do, or that Jerkass-Lewyn has any say over Leif and pals when they're defending Leonster.

The closest we've come to a character representing "the player behind the screen" is FE7's Mark, and as a result, they have no appearance or personality. They aren't a true character, but a storytelling device.

[Jotari]

18 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

shrug I guess so.

I'd assume that, when FE1 came out, Kaga didn't see a "player character" as necessary. The player was just... the player. Controlling a bunch of different characters. In theory, Malledus has this same job in universe... but it doesn't make sense for him to be directing certain characters. Such as Hardin and the Wolfguard in chapter 5, or the imprisoned Archanean Knights in chapter 12. Likewise, I don't imagine that Oifey is telling the "Blaggi Peninsula Three" what to do, or that Jerkass-Lewyn has any say over Leif and pals when they're defending Leonster.

The closest we've come to a character representing "the player behind the screen" is FE7's Mark, and as a result, they have no appearance or personality. They aren't a true character, but a storytelling device.

Robin is a lot more of a character unto themself, but they are playing the same trope with Mark as they are with Robin. So much so that Robin can even see the UI and direct damage calculations. Which, coming to think of it, having some kind of objective knowledge of how much damage you'll do and how likely you are to succeed with an attack is actually kind of a crazy broken power when you think of it.

[Acacia Sgt]

No.

This isn't something that gets applied retroactively, specially with already stablished characters. It's telling New Mystery created a new character instead of turning a pre-existing one for the role. If future remakes do add Player Avatars, we'll likely to see it as similar to Kris.

Also, by its definition, the Player Character of any given FE is all of the, well, playable characters. You might replace the term with Player Avatar then.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[lenticular]

Malledus is the player character in the same way that Judith is the main protagonist of Three Houses because she has the Lord class. Which is to say: not at all. Not all games in the series use the same conventions. Some games use the idea that the player is the tactician, but others don't. Soren is another one who is pretty clearly not supposed to represent the player.

[JimmyBeans]

I wonder if he was introduced in the manual of the original game, I'm guessing a lot of story elements are introduced there in FE1. At least he gets an introduction in the prologue for the remake.

While his scenes are few, I think he serves more as the "lore guy" as he explains to Marth the deal with dragons and some of the history that has already transpired, and funnily he looks less useful in FE11 because they made Marth more competent and basically had Malledus tell him things he already knows. His expansion is nice in said remake, but they seemingly put a lot more into Nyna's scenes than him, and so he is still a lot more forgettable sadly. 

Rather than the player character, he seems to serve as a prototype for Kaga's love for the older tactician assisting the prince, maybe he was a last minute replacement for Jagen's role in book 1? I remember there was that old dev note saying that Jagen was meant to die at a certain point so Marth could "come of age", as he was supposed to be his advisor. If that is true, looks like Kaga went with his original idea in, without the scripted death at least, for book 2.

 

[Acacia Sgt]

5 minutes ago, JimmyBeans said:

I wonder if he was introduced in the manual of the original game, I'm guessing a lot of story elements are introduced there in FE1. At least he gets an introduction in the prologue for the remake.

He was.

https://archive.org/details/fire-emblem-dark-dragon-and-the-blade-of-light-manual/page/42/mode/2up

Page 43

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

45 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Robin is a lot more of a character unto themself, but they are playing the same trope with Mark as they are with Robin. So much so that Robin can even see the UI and direct damage calculations. Which, coming to think of it, having some kind of objective knowledge of how much damage you'll do and how likely you are to succeed with an attack is actually kind of a crazy broken power when you think of it.

But Robin exists on the field of battle. They have a personality, and narrative significance. I, the player, don't have personal experience of having been bred to resurrect a giant evil dragon. All of this makes Robin more interesting as a character, but less effective as a stand-in for "you, the player".

Mind you, this phrasing sounds critical. But I actually think how they handled Robin was far more interesting than how they handled Mark. Again, Mark is basically a non-entity, as far as the plot and gameplay go. To the extent that you can actually replay Eliwood's and Hector's stories without a tactician altogether.

Also, Mark isn't with Hector in his version of chapter 11. That's... weird, right? He's the POV character, but we get one map where he's just totally absent? Go figure.

[Acacia Sgt]

I wonder what's the significance for Japan using the term "My Unit". Avatar is, after all, a localization invention. But if MU does have the same connotations, then I guess that can be it.

Still, I'll have to support the notion that the so called Avatars are anything but. I would only consider Mark and Kiran as the only acual Avatars. The fact that "Avatar" customization has become less and less each passing game does give credence they may be abandoning the idea, at least in part.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[vanguard333]

I'm pretty sure Malledus is supposed to be the villain of Spirit Tracks.

I don't think that Shadow Dragon was created with a particular player character in mind. The tactician isn't necessarily the player character; Soren is definitely not the player character of Path of Radiance despite being the tactician.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

In Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon: Fourth Time's a Charm, I will make Malledus the Avatar's Dad

"Your mother...was so beautiful...and the only black woman in Archanea. I didn't realize how xenophobic Altea was until she arrived at our kingdom"

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

Malledus is the Lore guy.

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

Probably because Shadow Dragon already got remade twice already and it would be pushing the envelope a bit far to remake it a third time (even though there is more you can do with it...like give real personalities to the characters).

If TLoU can be remade a bazillion times, so can Shadow Dragon and the sharp stick of effective damage. 

[Eltosian Kadath]

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

 

I'd assume that, when FE1 came out, Kaga didn't see a "player character" as necessary. The player was just... the player. Controlling a bunch of different characters. In theory, Malledus has this same job in universe... but it doesn't make sense for him to be directing certain characters. Such as Hardin and the Wolfguard in chapter 5, or the imprisoned Archanean Knights in chapter 12. Likewise, I don't imagine that Oifey is telling the "Blaggi Peninsula Three" what to do, or that Jerkass-Lewyn has any say over Leif and pals when they're defending Leonster.

I don't think Kaga has ever seen a "player character" as necessary, and if he intended for one, the Lord character generally seems more likely than the tactician role. Gaiden defied the idea of a singular "player" character with the two armies you can switch control of, and has no "tactician" like character to speak of. Genealogy's long time period has no single character present for all events the player is, and while the tactician Oifey is the closest, he explicitly leaves in chapter 5, not to return until a few turns into chapter 6, and can even die in second gen. Thracia 776 has its two tactician, but neither is around for all the events the player is, although its singular Lord is, making that a possibility at least. Tear Ring Saga, much like Gaiden has its two main armies with the dual Lords of Runan and Holmes, although Runan has his own Jeigan like tactician character in Eugen. Vestaria Saga defines these conventions even more with both a similar two Lord army split late into the game, but even a chapter with neither of these Lords in it, with an NPC tactician character ostensibly leading that force, but even said tactician isn't around for the entirety of the game either.

The idea of a "Player Character" seems like a distinctly post Kaga one.

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, lenticular said:

Malledus is the player character in the same way that Judith is the main protagonist of Three Houses because she has the Lord class. Which is to say: not at all. Not all games in the series use the same conventions. Some games use the idea that the player is the tactician, but others don't. Soren is another one who is pretty clearly not supposed to represent the player.

And that's why we need a Judith prequel!

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

 

Also, Mark isn't with Hector in his version of chapter 11. That's... weird, right? He's the POV character, but we get one map where he's just totally absent? Go figure.

In a weird attempt to make Kiran relevant, they've been absent from half the chapters of recent Heroes books. Being kidnapped or impersonated or lost in time or something. Yeah, it's weird to make a dedicated pov character and then have povs away from them.

4 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

In Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon: Fourth Time's a Charm, I will make Malledus the Avatar's Dad

"Your mother...was so beautiful...and the only black woman in Archanea. I didn't realize how xenophobic Altea was until she arrived at our kingdom"

That would require them to give us racial options for avatars, which they didn't even do with Robin, who has an ambiguously black dad >.>

4 hours ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

Malledus is the Lore guy.

If TLoU can be remade a bazillion times, so can Shadow Dragon and the sharp stick of effective damage. 

TLoU?

 

[Acacia Sgt]

Just now, Jotari said:

That would require them to give us racial options for avatars, which they didn't even do with Robin, who has an ambiguously black dad >.>

Takes after their mother, I suppose.

Just now, Jotari said:

TLoU?

The Last of Us... I think.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Takes after their mother, I suppose.

"The Grimleal have worked for generations to create someone like you... A vessel worthy of our master. Simply having Grima's blood in your veins is not enough... My father was not worthy, nor was his father before him. Even I was not able to accept Grima's most sacred gift. But after centuries we discovered the secret! Interracial blood purity! So I found the whitest ass bitch in the land to reproduce with. Seriously she wasn't just that peachy brown colour, this broad was like fresh paper. She might have even been albino. Long story short she was so white you don't even look remotely like me at all. You don't even have my rocking tall yet slim physique, or my wicked eyebrows...you know I'm starting to suspect she might have cheated on me. Wait...were the revival ceremonies before now not working just because Grima is racist!?"

Edited June 12, 2023 by Jotari

[AnonymousSpeed]

I can't believe you didn't take this opportunity to plug August from Thracia.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Malledus is Merlinus without the wagon.

[Jotari]

32 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Malledus is Merlinus without the wagon.

An astute comparison.