Do you like Specialized Anima Mages (wind, thunder, fire)

[Jotari]

17 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Well, we've had Ice tomes before, in Blizzard and Fimbulvetr. They could almost be called a proper "subtype" in 3H, with low Hit and high Crit. But they've never been "threshed out" in the way that Fire, Thunder, and Wind have been.

As for Earth magic, yeah that's certainly something missing. I'd love to see those tomes target Defense instead of Res. Could make them a neat "anti-Mage" option. Another option would be to give them terrain effects - dropping a breakable boulder on the target, or causing a Forest to grow underneath the user.

Fates kinda did this, too. Knives and Shurikens all inflicted various debuffs, while Spirits provided unique buffs to the user.

Yeah, Engage was cool on this front. I'd like to see "Thunder-family spells can hit at 3-range" become a normal and consistent thing from now on. As for the Surge tomes, I'm not convinced on being their own line, but maybe having one "infinite Hit, but 1-range only" tome per game could be a neat option.

Still kinda frustrated that Fire remains the "boring" magic subtype. Hm... perhaps it could get an AoE effect, where it also applies damage to enemies adjacent to the target? It would be reduced, kind of like a gambit. Alternatively (additionally?), Fire spells could impact the terrain, creating "Burning Ground" that damages whoever is standing on it.

Earth magic has been referenced with the recurring Quake Spell. Though it's never been a conventional tome. Marth uses the Geosphere in Shadow Dragon and Book 1 (but not Book 2 of the same game, oddly enough) and Duma and fan favourite character Jamil use Megaquake in Gaiden, localized as Upheaval. Thales also joins the gang as a villain using Quake in Three Houses. So, despite its rarity, Quake as an earth spell has managed to carve a niche for itself as an attack that hits all enemies (or in the player's hands, all units on the map friend and foe alike). Heroes also has chosen earth as the neutral magic representing the colourless tomes despite no character in the series throwing rocks at the enemy using magic (though Veld does turn people into stone, but  they made him a Red Tome user as that represents dark magic).

16 hours ago, Armchair General said:

Awakening, 3H, and Fates all have dark magic. But in Fates  it's only Nosferatu that has an class restriction.

 

In Awakening, you get these and then some.

Note that Mire is an siege tome and most of these are slightly stronger than conventional magic and it's class-locked to dark mages and sorcerors. But not dark knights for some reason.

 

In 3H, dark magic is exclusive to an handful of characters and it has some side effects attached to the Greek techno lightshow, like reducing someone's speed by 5 for one turn.

 

 

It's kind of weird they kept dark magic at all in Fates. Like, it has a very clear purpose in Awakening as extra powerful magic, but in Fates its just Nosferatu. Why get rid of Ruin and Waste at all? Or why keep Nosferatu around? Or, why keep it Dark Mage locked? I'm guessing the answer is the Hoshido Nohr class split...but that just seems like missed opportunity to make some wicked cool Dark Mage counterparts for Hoshido.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Jotari

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

Earth magic has been referenced with the recurring Quake Spell. Though it's never been a conventional tome. Marth uses the Geosphere in Shadow Dragon and Book 1 (but not Book 2 of the same game, oddly enough) and Duma and fan favourite character Jamil use Megaquake in Gaiden, localized as Upheaval. Thales also joins the gang as a villain using Quake in Three Houses. So, despite its rarity, Quake as an earth spell has managed to carve a niche for itself as an attack that hits all enemies (or in the player's hands, all units on the map friend and foe alike).

Yeah, good catch. Honestly, the Geosphere feels like one of those "Kaga moment" elements. The fact that it showed up day one, but we've never really seen anything like it since (in the player's hands, at least). Could be neat to experiment with a similar power again, whether in the form of the Quake Spell, or some other item or skill.

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

It's kind of weird they kept dark magic at all in Fates. Like, it has a very clear purpose in Awakening as extra powerful magic, but in Fates its just Nosferatu. Why get rid of Ruin and Waste at all? Or why keep Nosferatu around? Or, why keep it Dark Mage locked? I'm guessing the answer is the Hoshido Nohr class split...but that just seems like missed opportunity to make some wicked cool Dark Mage counterparts for Nohr.

I was gonna say "well, Ginnungagap could be dark magic, and you can't prove me wrong, because as an S-rank tome, only Sorcerors and Witches can use it!" Until I discovered... it's an A-rank tome? And Fates' S-rank tome is... Excalibur?

...Truthfully, I'm not a big fan of IS repeatedly going "uh what should our S-rank tome be oh I know make it Excalibur." It came outta nowhere in Fates, not to mention its GBA appearances. Making this even weirder, it's made a ton of non-legendary appearances, including its original Archanean version! Just a weird tradition to maintain, especially when IS seems to have no shortage of tongue-twisting G-names for its legendary Dark(ish) tomes.

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Yeah, good catch. Honestly, the Geosphere feels like one of those "Kaga moment" elements. The fact that it showed up day one, but we've never really seen anything like it since (in the player's hands, at least). Could be neat to experiment with a similar power again, whether in the form of the Quake Spell, or some other item or skill.

I was gonna say "well, Ginnungagap could be dark magic, and you can't prove me wrong, because as an S-rank tome, only Sorcerors and Witches can use it!" Until I discovered... it's an A-rank tome? And Fates' S-rank tome is... Excalibur?

...Truthfully, I'm not a big fan of IS repeatedly going "uh what should our S-rank tome be oh I know make it Excalibur." It came outta nowhere in Fates, not to mention its GBA appearances. Making this even weirder, it's made a ton of non-legendary appearances, including its original Archanean version! Just a weird tradition to maintain, especially when IS seems to have no shortage of tongue-twisting G-names for its legendary Dark(ish) tomes.

I agree. I like Excalibur as Merric's personal magic. Throwing it into other continuities as the S ranked tome just feels boring and repetitive. If that's the role it always plays, then sure. But mixing it just causes a loss of identity. And they don't even ever do that for other weapon types, for the most part. The only times they repeat weapons is when the Archanea regelia show up as a reference, or in Awakening where it is meant to be a collective reference across the series. Otherwise they're quite good at coming up with new swords, axes, lances and bows for each new game. And tomes should be by far the easiest ones to come up with, since magic isn't real so they can assign any name they want to one unlike physical weapons where there is some expectation and incentive to mine the globe's myths for something. Hell, Excalibur itself is obviously a sword from mythology that they've categorized as wind magic for reasons only Kaga can comprehend.

[Acacia Sgt]

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

I agree. I like Excalibur as Merric's personal magic. Throwing it into other continuities as the S ranked tome just feels boring and repetitive. If that's the role it always plays, then sure. But mixing it just causes a loss of identity. And they don't even ever do that for other weapon types, for the most part. The only times they repeat weapons is when the Archanea regelia show up as a reference, or in Awakening where it is meant to be a collective reference across the series. Otherwise they're quite good at coming up with new swords, axes, lances and bows for each new game. And tomes should be by far the easiest ones to come up with, since magic isn't real so they can assign any name they want to one unlike physical weapons where there is some expectation and incentive to mine the globe's myths for something. Hell, Excalibur itself is obviously a sword from mythology that they've categorized as wind magic for reasons only Kaga can comprehend.

I could only imagine it might be because a possible meaning of Excalibur is "cut steel", as in, it's so sharp it can cut through steel like butter, or something like that. Wind magic has always felt that it attacks because the wind blasts are "sharp" (I'm pretty sure one game had a Cutting Gale spell, supporting this notion). So, wind magic as sharp to cut steel, hence Excalibur. Well, it's an idea.

You know, at least Excalibur tends to remain one of a kind (barring shenanigans that let you get more than one copy through external means to the main game). Poor Aura was bumped down to generic tome (even if still high-ranked at A in most games) you can buy at shops by the dozen.

---

Anyway, for the topic itself, I like the concept of separate magic categories from a story/lore standpoint. It's too bad it never really caught on, unlike making the physical weapons their own types.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Poor Aura was bumped down to generic tome (even if still high-ranked at A in most games) you can buy at shops by the dozen.

Really? When? Because Aura, far as I remember, was generally one-of-a-kind. 

[Acacia Sgt]

1 minute ago, Shadow Mir said:

Really? When? Because Aura, far as I remember, was generally one-of-a-kind. 

Let's see...

Okay, it seems the only shop across the series that lets you buy Aura is Rausten Keep's Secret Shop. However, it's true that it's not one-of-a-kind. While the player may only have access to one or two at best (barring Valentia and Fodlan due to their own way of spell learning), Aura tends to pop-up quite often among the enemies.

Victory or Death in Blazing Blade, for example, has two Bishops carrying Aura.

[Armchair General]

22 hours ago, Jotari said:

It's kind of weird they kept dark magic at all in Fates. Like, it has a very clear purpose in Awakening as extra powerful magic, but in Fates its just Nosferatu. Why get rid of Ruin and Waste at all? Or why keep Nosferatu around? Or, why keep it Dark Mage locked?

I think that they had to trim the fat, somewhere along the line and it looked like the Nohrian tomes were the ones who got it. 

[lenticular]

My wacky, out-there, possibly-terrible idea for this: get rid of different elemental tomes entirely and then have all the diversity come from the classes.

So, instead of having Wind, Fire and Thunder as three separate items, we'd just have one item, let's call it Initiate's Tome. Then likewise we'd have Elwind, Elfire and Elthunder all merged into Adept's Tome; Excalibur, Ragnarok and Thoron all merged into Sage's Tome; Meteor, Bolting and Blizzard all merged into Siege Tome. (All names could obviously be changed.)

But then, all tome classes would have an innate class skill based on the type of magic that they use. So, if you have someone in the Wind Mage class they'd have the skill Wind Magic: all your attacks with tomes have +10 accuracy and deal effective damage to flying enemies. Thunder Mages would have Thunder Magic: all your attacks with tomes have +1 range. Fire Mages get Fire Magic: all your attacks with tomes deal +1 damage and deal effective damage to beasts.

It wouldn't be included in the skill descriptions, but each of these skills would also change the battle animations to show appropriate elemental attacks. The system could also be modified easily enough so that each character had an elemental affinity that was fixed and unchangable rather than having it be done by class. It would also be flexible enough to allow for the addition of Ice Mage, Earth Mage or similar if wanted.

The idea behind this is that it would mean that there'd only have to be a single type of tome at each level of rarity/power so you wouldn't ever run into problems like "only Ilyana can use Rexbolt". If you get a rare late-game tome then you'd be guaranteed to have someone who can use it, because all anima magic users would be able to. But at the same time, it would retain a decent amount of the flavour of having different elemental affinities.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

9 hours ago, lenticular said:

So, instead of having Wind, Fire and Thunder as three separate items, we'd just have one item, let's call it Initiate's Tome. Then likewise we'd have Elwind, Elfire and Elthunder all merged into Adept's Tome; Excalibur, Ragnarok and Thoron all merged into Sage's Tome; Meteor, Bolting and Blizzard all merged into Siege Tome. (All names could obviously be changed.)

But then, all tome classes would have an innate class skill based on the type of magic that they use. So, if you have someone in the Wind Mage class they'd have the skill Wind Magic: all your attacks with tomes have +10 accuracy and deal effective damage to flying enemies. Thunder Mages would have Thunder Magic: all your attacks with tomes have +1 range. Fire Mages get Fire Magic: all your attacks with tomes deal +1 damage and deal effective damage to beasts.

Interesting idea! Another naming scheme could be "Tome, Eltome, Arctome, Siegetome", so it's clearer what each one turns into. But your proposed names are definitely more flavorful.

It does raise the question - what if a unit without an elemental "type" uses the tome? In that case, perhaps they could function as Light Magic? In that sense, each "type" could be seen as analogous to a "filter". As putting a piece if green plastic wrap over a flashlight turns the light green, so too does putting the "Wind" filter over "Eltome" turn it into "Elwind".

The one big limitation of such a system is, it doesn't sound like units would be able to wield different types of Anima. If they're a "Fire Sage", then they can never use Thunder or Wind-type tomes. And any attempt to create an "Archsage" class would need a way to control which "filter" is applied over a given time. Then again, this "limitation" may not be such a bad thing, if it makes the classes feel more distinct from one another.

9 hours ago, lenticular said:

It would also be flexible enough to allow for the addition of Ice Mage, Earth Mage or similar if wanted.

Perhaps "magic type" could tie in with the unit's Holy Blood or Crest, if we're in a game where those exist? So nobles from the "Fire family" can use Fire Magic, while the chiefs of the "Earth clan" employ Eath Magic. Commoners with tome access would use Light Magic. But maybe with the right item or skill (i.e. Crest Stones in 3H NG+), they can gain the effect of that bloodline, and change their magic type.

[lenticular]

14 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

It does raise the question - what if a unit without an elemental "type" uses the tome? In that case, perhaps they could function as Light Magic? In that sense, each "type" could be seen as analogous to a "filter". As putting a piece if green plastic wrap over a flashlight turns the light green, so too does putting the "Wind" filter over "Eltome" turn it into "Elwind".

Perhaps "magic type" could tie in with the unit's Holy Blood or Crest, if we're in a game where those exist? So nobles from the "Fire family" can use Fire Magic, while the chiefs of the "Earth clan" employ Eath Magic. Commoners with tome access would use Light Magic. But maybe with the right item or skill (i.e. Crest Stones in 3H NG+), they can gain the effect of that bloodline, and change their magic type.

As I was initially imagining it, it wouldn't be possible to use a tome without having an elemental type, since all classes/charactrs capable of using magic would have one. I do quite like the idea of having element be linked to some sort of inheritable magic technobabble though, and in that case, yeah, having it default to light magic would be a reasonable way to do things. Or alternatively it could just be raw anima without an associated element. Fire Emblem already has Sagitae as basically that, so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch, I don't think.

14 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

The one big limitation of such a system is, it doesn't sound like units would be able to wield different types of Anima. If they're a "Fire Sage", then they can never use Thunder or Wind-type tomes. And any attempt to create an "Archsage" class would need a way to control which "filter" is applied over a given time. Then again, this "limitation" may not be such a bad thing, if it makes the classes feel more distinct from one another.

Yeah, that was deliberate. It's a trade-off between distinctiveness and flexibility, really. Sort of like with reclassing. Too much flexibility and everyone starts to feel like they're the same. Too much distinctiveness and it ends up feeling like you aren't making any meaningful decisions. Finding the happy medium is hard, and this idea definitely errs more towards the "make units more distinctive" side of things.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

On 8/3/2023 at 4:58 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Still kinda frustrated that Fire remains the "boring" magic subtype. Hm... perhaps it could get an AoE effect, where it also applies damage to enemies adjacent to the target? It would be reduced, kind of like a gambit. Alternatively (additionally?), Fire spells could impact the terrain, creating "Burning Ground" that damages whoever is standing on it.

Unit hit by Fire can´t be healed above remaining HP (in map).

Get cauterized, bitch.

 

Maybe a special consumable to restore burn wounds?

On that not: Wind tomes move enemies, fire tomes see above, thunder tomes inhibit movement, dark tomes with wacky "sap-" elements (drain HP, drain stats, drain enemy turn -> galeforce in the shape of a weapon), light magic always heals user 

[ARMADS!!!]

On 8/3/2023 at 7:55 AM, BrightBow said:

Actually flying units can pass through grounded units. And grounded units can pass through them. But that's neither here nor there.

1 range attacks and 0 range attacks are both initiated from the adjacent hex. The difference is that 0 range cannot counter against attacks initiated at 1 range.
2 range and above is just what you'd expect: Attacking from 2 hexes away.

To help put this into perspective:
Melee weapons are all 0 range.
Crossbows are 0-1 range.
Bows are 1-2 range.
Throwing weapons are just 1 range. So they cannot be countered by melee attacks, but they also cannot counter when engaged in melee either.

So attacking at 0 range essentially means entering the hex of the target for the purpose of engaging the target in melee. Which means both benefit of the terrain that the defender stands on.
It also has other implications, for example a ground unit cannot initiate 0 range combat against a flying unit because they are high up in the air. But you can still counter them if they come down to you for their own 0 range attacks.

In the context of magic, Wind and Fire being mostly 0-1 range means that while you don't get directly counter attacked by melee attacks, you can't safely attack from behind a meatshield either. Which is something you would generally prefer if you are a squishy mage.

 Wow, COOL! Now I want to play Berwick saga, it looks awesome! Thanks for taking the time for explaining all this stuff. tbh, I always wanted the possibility of passing throught foot units with my flying units becuase it's what would make sense (althought at the same time I'd miss blocking flying units with my footlocked units but whatever), also the implementation of 0 range is a very smart concept. Now I'm gonna start waiting for the day they'll make a mechanic that doesn't allow you to shoot arrows or javelins through walls that are covered by a roof (AKA the walls that flying units can't fly throught).

 

On 8/3/2023 at 1:05 PM, Azz said:

Don't particularly care for the anima triangle tbh. In games where it was split Fire/Thunder/Wind, there wasn't near enough differences to justify it and either a) one magic type was just better (wind in GotHW) or b) mages were shite in general (RD). The magic triangle in general is rather redundant imo, whether it be anima only or the GBA anime/light/dark triangle cause the only units in those games that used tomes and thus would get something out of the magic triangle would naturally have good res. 

I do think Engage has done it the best with how it differed magic. All under one weapon rank, but each type does something different. Fire is an all-rounder, wind is effective v fliers as per and is light but weak normally and thunder magic is super strong and has 3 range but can't double. Then you have the new surge tomes which are super powerful and never miss but can only be used at close range.

I also think Engage's Bow/Knife/Tome getting broken by Arts was a pretty nice inclusion and way to include tomes in some form of weapon triangle sitch if they have to be included.

 Oh, that does sound like a very good way to implement the whole stuff, that's the first time I read an explanation of how the whole thing works on Engage, and it seems nice. It'd probably work well too if they did some sort of triangle between bows, knifes and tomes.

 

On 8/3/2023 at 3:42 PM, Jotari said:

Yeah, as I say later in that is the dynamic Fire Emblem typically goes with, but it doesn't have to be. They could make thunder mages who all make high crit weapons or wind mages who use all brave weapons or something. But such exclusive focus on a weapon isn't something they've ever really done. The closest would be bows all being anti flier weapons and Three Houses gauntlets all being brave which made them...anti everything weapons.

  Also in Engage all knives poison, or in Fates (and in feh) every dagger reduces stats, I think it'd be cool to give more exclusive properties to some types of weapon.

 

On 8/3/2023 at 5:19 PM, Armchair General said:

Awakening, 3H, and Fates all have dark magic. But in Fates  it's only Nosferatu that has an class restriction.

 

In Awakening, you get these and then some.

Note that Mire is an siege tome and most of these are slightly stronger than conventional magic and it's class-locked to dark mages and sorcerors. But not dark knights for some reason.

 

In 3H, dark magic is exclusive to an handful of characters and it has some side effects attached to the Greek techno lightshow, like reducing someone's speed by 5 for one turn.

 

 

Oh, cooool. Thanks for explaining.

 

On 8/4/2023 at 5:08 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Yeah, good catch. Honestly, the Geosphere feels like one of those "Kaga moment" elements. The fact that it showed up day one, but we've never really seen anything like it since (in the player's hands, at least). Could be neat to experiment with a similar power again, whether in the form of the Quake Spell, or some other item or skill.

 

 Lol it really does feels like it. I'd also like to have something like that, something akin to Quake could work well as an S rank anima spell (since "anima" -in games like the GBA games- just refers to elements in general, quake could fit there, while we mostly have Thunder/Fire/Wind tomes inside anima, there's also Fimbulvetr in FE6 and FE7, that is an "ice" tome so while it wouldn't fit the thunder/fire/wind category it does fit anima, quake could be similar), and be a tome that damages every enemy/unit on the map (pehaps have effective damage against units that are inside indoor spaces or on montains or something like that)

 

13 hours ago, lenticular said:

As I was initially imagining it, it wouldn't be possible to use a tome without having an elemental type, since all classes/charactrs capable of using magic would have one. I do quite like the idea of having element be linked to some sort of inheritable magic technobabble though, and in that case, yeah, having it default to light magic would be a reasonable way to do things. Or alternatively it could just be raw anima without an associated element. Fire Emblem already has Sagitae as basically that, so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch, I don't think.

Yeah, that was deliberate. It's a trade-off between distinctiveness and flexibility, really. Sort of like with reclassing. Too much flexibility and everyone starts to feel like they're the same. Too much distinctiveness and it ends up feeling like you aren't making any meaningful decisions. Finding the happy medium is hard, and this idea definitely errs more towards the "make units more distinctive" side of things.

Yeah, I liked the idea too, sure it's kinda different but makes sense and would be cool.

 

8 hours ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

Unit hit by Fire can´t be healed above remaining HP (in map).

Get cauterized, bitch.

 

Maybe a special consumable to restore burn wounds?

On that not: Wind tomes move enemies, fire tomes see above, thunder tomes inhibit movement, dark tomes with wacky "sap-" elements (drain HP, drain stats, drain enemy turn -> galeforce in the shape of a weapon), light magic always heals user 

 That's be nice as well, fire having an "effect" (the "burned" status) reminds me of pokemon's status conditions, stuff like burn, freeze, poison, sleep, paralylis,... things of the sort could work well in FE, I mean we already have poison and sleep, burn would apply to fire related damage and paralysis to electric related damage, while freeze could apply to ice related damage (from tomes like Fimbulvetr) and then the wind tomes could just have the regular "effective against flying units" effect that several of them already have anyway. And then Dark could keep having the wackyscary effects that they have and Light heal the user as you said (although I think that anything that drains HP, like Nosferatu, is better off as light magic), some specific high-rank light tome could have a Breath of Life effect too (you'd still gain EXp for the healed allied ssince by using it you won't need to use a staff on these allies later, or the EXp gained for using the tome is always high because it assumes you're gonna heal allies but then it doesn't have a very high durability OR has low might and normal durability). 

[Shadow Mir]

On 8/4/2023 at 10:27 AM, Acacia Sgt said:

Let's see...

Okay, it seems the only shop across the series that lets you buy Aura is Rausten Keep's Secret Shop. However, it's true that it's not one-of-a-kind. While the player may only have access to one or two at best (barring Valentia and Fodlan due to their own way of spell learning), Aura tends to pop-up quite often among the enemies.

Victory or Death in Blazing Blade, for example, has two Bishops carrying Aura.

Okay, so one of a kind was inaccurate. But yeah, you mostly get it only once in a game.

On 8/3/2023 at 5:19 PM, Jotari said:

It's kind of weird they kept dark magic at all in Fates. Like, it has a very clear purpose in Awakening as extra powerful magic, but in Fates its just Nosferatu. Why get rid of Ruin and Waste at all? Or why keep Nosferatu around? Or, why keep it Dark Mage locked? I'm guessing the answer is the Hoshido Nohr class split...but that just seems like missed opportunity to make some wicked cool Dark Mage counterparts for Hoshido.

While we're talking about this, I'm still surprised that Nosferatu was literally all Fates got for dark magic. One could argue that it was a knee-jerk reaction to dark magic (mostly Nosferatu) and the classes that used it being too good in Awakening, but culling all the dark magic except one is still a bit much.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Shadow Mir

[New Acc 443]

5 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Okay, so one of a kind was inaccurate. But yeah, you mostly get it only once in a game.

While we're talking about this, I'm still surprised that Nosferatu was literally all Fates got for dark magic. One could argue that it was a knee-jerk reaction to dark magic (mostly Nosferatu) and the classes that used it being too good in Awakening, but culling all the dark magic except one is still a bit much.

Yeah, I wasn't a fan of that decision either. Dark Magic is my favorite type of Magic so I thought it was really unfortunate Fates removed everything outside of Nosfuratu.

I think it makes sense somewhat since Dark Magic in general isn't really distinguishable from regular Magic outside of being OP lmao. Dark Mages were straight up better since they had exclusive Siege Tomes, Brave Weapons, Killer weapons, etc. Kinda weird to for one class to have exclusive access to all these cool toys when any Magic class should be able to use them just fine. Siege tomes in Fates would have been a nightmare especially.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

18 hours ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

Unit hit by Fire can´t be healed above remaining HP (in map).

Get cauterized, bitch.

That would be very potent, and reminiscent of the Hexing Rod. Which has had... not the warmest reception in the community. Would be much more powerful in enemy hands than the player's. 

18 hours ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

Maybe a special consumable to restore burn wounds?

Like a "burn salve"? That could be good. Ideally, the Restore staff would fix the condition as well.

23 hours ago, lenticular said:

As I was initially imagining it, it wouldn't be possible to use a tome without having an elemental type, since all classes/charactrs capable of using magic would have one. I do quite like the idea of having element be linked to some sort of inheritable magic technobabble though, and in that case, yeah, having it default to light magic would be a reasonable way to do things. Or alternatively it could just be raw anima without an associated element. Fire Emblem already has Sagitae as basically that, so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch, I don't think.

Yeah, it could work as a kind of "energy magic". That's how I interpret Surge in Engage, because it doesn't look "elemental" at all to me. I guess Sagittae is in a similar vein, although I think it could be reworked into a Wind or Ice-type spell.

10 hours ago, ARMADS!!! said:

Lol it really does feels like it. I'd also like to have something like that, something akin to Quake could work well as an S rank anima spell (since "anima" -in games like the GBA games- just refers to elements in general, quake could fit there, while we mostly have Thunder/Fire/Wind tomes inside anima, there's also Fimbulvetr in FE6 and FE7, that is an "ice" tome so while it wouldn't fit the thunder/fire/wind category it does fit anima, quake could be similar), and be a tome that damages every enemy/unit on the map (pehaps have effective damage against units that are inside indoor spaces or on montains or something like that)

That could be very neat! Would probably want to limit it to just 5 uses, as it would essentially be a multi-target siege tome. Also consider making it sub-lethal, since I don't know if the game can handle a single attack killing multiple targets. Would still be a great way to soften up a bunch of enemies for your other units to finish off. Depending on the theming, though, perhaps fliers should be immune? As I wouldn't expect them to be directly affected by an earthquake. 

10 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

While we're talking about this, I'm still surprised that Nosferatu was literally all Fates got for dark magic. One could argue that it was a knee-jerk reaction to dark magic (mostly Nosferatu) and the classes that used it being too good in Awakening, but culling all the dark magic except one is still a bit much.

They could've just kept Dark-themed tomes, but made them generally usable. So Dark Knight and Malig Knight could use Nosferatu, Flux, Waste, etc. By saying "Nosferatu can't double", I think they've balanced it out to not be over-centralizing like it was in Awakening.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

That would be very potent, and reminiscent of the Hexing Rod. Which has had... not the warmest reception in the community. Would be much more powerful in enemy hands than the player's.

The Engage DLC campaign has wolves that reduce max HP by 5 when they attack, which is a mechanic that is much more manageable than the Hexing Rod.

[ARMADS!!!]

9 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

That could be very neat! Would probably want to limit it to just 5 uses, as it would essentially be a multi-target siege tome. Also consider making it sub-lethal, since I don't know if the game can handle a single attack killing multiple targets. Would still be a great way to soften up a bunch of enemies for your other units to finish off. Depending on the theming, though, perhaps fliers should be immune? As I wouldn't expect them to be directly affected by an earthquake. 

 Yeah, it'd have to have very few uses (5 is good, the absolute most being like 10 or so otherwise would be too OP, unless if it had a low hit rate, or low might/fixed chip damage, and/or if it hit your allies too), but I think that it should be able to kill enemies, the game should probably be able to handle multiple units dying at once (I mean, think for example, the traps of the gaiden chapters in FE6, they can hit hit two of your units at once and happen to kill them if their HP is low enough for it, I never tested it or saw any video of it happened, but I'm sure the game wouldn't just spare one of your units at random).

I had thought about flying units being immune to it too but I wasn't exactly sure of how to express myself (specially thoughts like: but what if they were flying near a montain? Or if they were indoors? how wouldn't they be affected then? or "but if it's supposed to be an S rank tome then wouldn't it be cheap to make some units simply immune by it?", or What if it's a flying boss that is sitting by a throne?, etc...) so I gave up on trying to figure out the idea even before I started to write, but actually I think it could be just as simple as you put it, "fliers are immune, always"(just like how bows are always effective against flying units even when they're indoors and when they're standing still on a throne), it'd work well anyway without having to put so much extra thought into it.

 Crap, now I really want to see an S weapon that works somewhat like this... It'd be so unique and definitively way better than reusing Excalibur as the S anima tome...

[Eltosian Kadath]

I like the specialized Anima mages, and the solution to most of the mechanical issues with them is solved by one simple thing, make magic classes as common, and diverse as physical class. Give us things like Storm Riders (Flying movement using Wind and Thunder Magic), Light Brigade (Cavalry movement with Fire and Thunder Magic), a true Flame Emperor (Armored movent with FIre Magic), and as many other variants like this as the physical side of things. This should also effect the cast as well, no singular Thunder mage like in older games, give us as many thunder mages as we see Myrmidons, and the like.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 8/8/2023 at 4:58 AM, Eltosian Kadath said:

I like the specialized Anima mages, and the solution to most of the mechanical issues with them is solved by one simple thing, make magic classes as common, and diverse as physical class. Give us things like Storm Riders (Flying movement using Wind and Thunder Magic), Light Brigade (Cavalry movement with Fire and Thunder Magic), a true Flame Emperor (Armored movent with FIre Magic), and as many other variants like this as the physical side of things. This should also effect the cast as well, no singular Thunder mage like in older games, give us as many thunder mages as we see Myrmidons, and the like.

This is a good point! A major part of the "sameness" is, in a lot of games, the only magic users we get are infantry. Archanea and Tellius totally omit mounted spellcasters. And even in the games that have them, they're limited to promotions. It's been thirty-odd years, and we've yet to see an unpromoted cavalry class that uses tomes. To its credit, Engage gave us first-tier mage fliers in Ivy and Hortensia, even if the game pushes you to promote them right away. Still, would like to see more in these lines, as well as Armored Mages. Maybe a magic class with an innate crit boost, too, like Swordmaster and Berserker.