To Become an Elitist [Playlogs FE1-5] [currently playing: Thracia 776]

[Saint Rubenio]

44 minutes ago, ping said:

But while making his way along the shore, he passes near a small settlement: a coastal village by the name of Iz...

Hey, I know that one!

45 minutes ago, ping said:

people point to him as one of the strongest characters in Jugdral. Narratively, of course.

I'm not convinced he's not one of the strongest characters in Jugdral just in general. He could probably put Seliph in a chokehold. Jokes aside, he could definitely make Seliph cry.

45 minutes ago, ping said:

But I think that is all. I don't even recall who August's benefactor is, to be honest.

You'll be pleased to find out.

48 minutes ago, ping said:

The only potential issue I can see is that we'll still not have a healer available...

Hey @Shaky Jones remember those talks we had? About the one heal staff? This is what I meant.

...Don't worry about it, just an unrelated topic.

49 minutes ago, ping said:

Boss Man isn't too terrifying, either - as long as you don't get any smart ideas of having Leif fight him. 6 AS is enough to double him. But like Weissmann in Ch.1, Bucks is a walking invitation to enjoy the benefits of a Jeigan with a magic sword.

The best part of this guy is his release quote. Dude (seemingly) repents and becomes a fisherman if spared. I've always been sad that a lot of the game's bosses are uncapturable, because sparing those that can be spared and seeing how they react is so interesting.

50 minutes ago, ping said:

It took two chapters to get to get the third damsel into distress. Kaga's in rare form today.

You can't fault him for inconsistency, at least.

51 minutes ago, ping said:

...nevermind. Doubling threshold seems to be 4 in this game, after being 3 in Old Mystery. Good to know.

For all of Binding Blade's superficial return to roots stuff, it was actually Thracia that set a few of the series's mechanical conventions going forward. 4 doubling threshold wasn't touched until Fates, rescue remained all the way to Awakening (discounting the remakes) and even there it was more overhauled than outright removed, constitution and weight based on it stuck through the GBA trilogy...

...It also introduced fog of war. Sadly.

53 minutes ago, ping said:

...not the most difficult set of houses to save. But I shan't make the mistake of taunting Thracia. Not with a fog-of-war chapter coming right up.

To its credit, the single most important and most crippling to miss gaiden is also... kind of impossible to miss unless you actively let it happen? Those houses are super easy to protect. Though I maintain that it should not have been missable, period. It's your introduction to fog, your introduction to capturing bosses and not letting them go, your introduction to thieves, your introduction to healers, your introduction to scrolls...

Seriously, the more I think about it the worse it seems. Why the fuck is 2x missable? There's so much to unpack! Anyway, I forgot the point I was making.

55 minutes ago, ping said:

: "Oh, you must be with the Freeblades! I want to join y'all! I'm good enough with a bow and I can get around pretty fast. I won't hold you back none.
: "B-But you've never been in a real fight like this before...! You that eager to leave yer mother alone in this world?!"
: "That don't matter none! Every battle is somebody's first, right? Guess this'll be mine. I mean, maybe you can stand holing up in here an' waiting to die, but I sure can't!"

This translation makes no mention of Lifis here. A liberty, probably, because in the old one - and I imagine in the original, though I cannot know for sure, it wouldn't be the first time the old translation just invented shit - he explictly says he's joining up to fight Lifis.

...Which very quickly becomes an extremely stupid motivation for him to stick with Leif. So I can follow the logic of wording this more vaguely.

56 minutes ago, ping said:

Weapon Level: Bows (E+30)
Skill: Adept

Ronan's base combat stats are pretty comparable to Tanya's - +1 Str, but -3 Skl and effectively -1 Spd, as she is slowed down by two points even by Iron Bows. However, Ronan has an additional point of movement, three movement stars (or "Vigor", as this translations calls it) to Tanya's zero, and enough Con to rescue Leif.

Overall, Ronan seems like an upgrade to Tanya, whose main feature is her support for Osian and Dagdar. But of course, I don't know how exactly their growths compare - I do know that Ronan has a substantial Mag/Res growth, as well as a small chance to level +Mov, but I don't know if that comes at the cost of lower Str/Spd growths.

Ronan is a meme. He has like, zero strength growth, all the magic that he gets absolutely no use from, and then he's basically just a big move guy. Somehow proving movement isn't everything.

Tanya's probably slightly better, but neither's really all that.

58 minutes ago, ping said:

...and it comes without reward. Good character, I've been told.

Scrolls and gear help, but there's a reason the strat is to give him all the rings. Well, there's multiple reasons, actually. We'll get to that.

59 minutes ago, ping said:

: "Augustus, at your service.

Oh, is he still Augustus? I thought they updated the patch already to remove the us since Heroes established August as canon.

1 hour ago, ping said:

You just didn't play Genealogy often enough to appreciate its finer points. Before criticising it further, you should play it again. I'm sure that will improve your opinion on it.

Shaky just cannot win. I, on the other hand, do not know the meaning of the word lose.

1 hour ago, ping said:

And to avoid the obligatory Katie Tiedrich, an alternative that I saw on Reddit just recently...:

It takes two comments' worth of scrolling down to find the obligatory Katie Tiedrich.

Anyway, yes. The battle panties are indeed stupid as well.

1 hour ago, ping said:

I'll say that Sigurd managed some character development of his own, going from "I'll just seize one more castle. And then another one. And then..." to actually conferring with Queen Rahna about the best course of action. His growth was just cut short before it could arrive somewhere. I really think he's one of the better FE lords, as far as the story is concerned - it's just too bad about his son.

Yeah, no complaints about Sigurd. He's a very solid protagonist. Somehow, because Kaga didn't care as much about him lmao

1 hour ago, ping said:

Looks like you got some required watching to do.

Is he an actual giant or was Bruce Lee just that tiny?

[ping]

4 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

You'll be pleased to find out.

...

...oh god, it's Lewyn, isn't it? Don't tell me, but I'm calling it.

5 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

release quote

Genuinely impressed that that's a thing. Now I almost feel bad for murdering him.

6 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

To its credit, the single most important and most crippling to miss gaiden is also... kind of impossible to miss unless you actively let it happen? Those houses are super easy to protect. Though I maintain that it should not have been missable, period. It's your introduction to fog, your introduction to capturing bosses and not letting them go, your introduction to thieves, your introduction to healers, your introduction to scrolls...

Seriously, the more I think about it the worse it seems. Why the fuck is 2x missable? There's so much to unpack! Anyway, I forgot the point I was making.

As you said, you can't fault Kaga for inconsistency. It's almost impossible to miss by accident, but since this is Thracia, there must be a 1% chance of failure.

7 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Oh, is he still Augustus? I thought they updated the patch already to remove the us since Heroes established August as canon.

This should be the newest version, unless there's a newer update outside of the SF forums.

To be honest, I think I prefer "Augustus", since without the -us, the name has a clear connotation to clowns. At least in German, dunno about other countries/languages.

11 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Is he an actual giant or was Bruce Lee just that tiny?

His dayjob was basketball player on the Center position (i.e. the big guy playing closest to the basket). Held the record for most points scored until very recently, too. So yeah, actual giant. 218 cm, according to wikipedia.

[BrightBow]

2 hours ago, ping said:

And I know that Lifis might be the most morally bankrupt character you can recruit in the entire series.

Pre-FE7 anyway.

FE7 got Athos, who is basically Elibe's version of a retired Nazi general. Also Karel, who kills people just for fun. And of course in Awakening, everyone kills people for fun.

 

2 hours ago, ping said:

Overall, Ronan seems like an upgrade to Tanya, whose main feature is her support for Osian and Dagdar. But of course, I don't know how exactly their growths compare - I do know that Ronan has a substantial Mag/Res growth, as well as a small chance to level +Mov, but I don't know if that comes at the cost of lower Str/Spd growths.

Almost everyone has a chance to level move. Although yeah, Ronan's is slightly higher than Tanya. 3% vs 2%. But that's nothing too out of the ordinary either way.

What's probably more important is that Ronan has a PCC of 1, while Tanya has 2. Though I suppose there is something to be said about having a low crit chance so you are less likely to kill something that you intend to capture.
...speaking of untimely critical hits, the capture mechanic in this game is a lot like Pokemon, come to think of it.

It should be noted that while male Bow Fighters have more movement than female Bow Fighters, the same is not true for Snipers.
So while Ronan has a movement advantage now, that's gonna disappear after a class change.

Also Ronan is supported by Leaf. Sometimes Leaf just supports people who don't have anyone else looking out for them.

It might be worth noting that Tanya is not actually supported by Dagdar, only by Othin. I guess they wanted to avoid too much support stacking. Othin and Tanya could have had a Talk on the previous map, btw.

In any case, being a bow user is just not great in Thracia. Not just because Tanya and Ronan have really poor bases, but also because capturing is such a huge part of the game. And bows simply cannot do that because they cannot initiate combat at 1 range.
 

2 hours ago, ping said:

He was a red unit before the start of the fight! Kill him!

Being a green unit would not necessarily have been better.
 

2 hours ago, ping said:

This has been discussed a bit already, but I'd blame BlaBla more than BinBla - because of course I am, but also because BinBla was a deliberate "return to the roots" in its story, general "character shapes", and more simple basic mechanics, compared to Jugdral. Because of that, it makes sense that Roy uses the same weapon as Marth, and indirectly, the same can be argued for Eliwood, but there's less of a reason for Hector and Lyn to receive personal weapons with the same special property of the Rapier.

Oh definitely. 3 protagonists and they are all just Marth clones.

I mean, we had two different protagonists before with Alm and Celica. And they both play very differently.
 

2 hours ago, ping said:

I'll also say that Kaga did recycle the concept of three triangling sisters (though not as playable characters, and not limited to the Pegasus/Falcoknight class) and the Lv.1 Pala with a Silver Lance. Sure, Arran is in Marth's second story, but he's still a "Jeigan other than Jeigan".

Not being playable is a very big distinction.

As for Book 2 Arran, you know it wouldn't surprise me if it at one point he was actually meant to be the same old Jagen.
Then one day they decided to have Jagen take Malledus's role, so he became too important to die as a unit.

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, ping said:

: "Hah, yer one to talk! Boss says yer the one thow taught 'im everythin' he knows about interrogatin'! There's a reason you ain't with the church no more, mate."

You wouldn't think it to look at him, but Bucks is one of a handful of bosses to have a unique portrait. You'd think he'd show up again as a random bandit, but nope. He gets to have a face.

4 hours ago, ping said:

Marty would seem like another obvious pick, but there isn't much point in going from unable to double to still unable to double.

Well it would defensively give him the potential to prevent being doubled, which is also really important. And if you do intend to use Marty long term his speed can be fixed with Scrolls. Though my knowledge of Thracia is not so perfect as to know exactly when the speed enhancing scrolls come.

4 hours ago, ping said:

Augustus

That's one the fan translators didn't rush to change. He was called August in the old translation, and has been officially translated as August on CYL since 2021, and actually managing to get I to Heroes a year later. So this is really the only place you'll see anyone call him Augustus. Might be my bias speaking, but I do like August better. Augustus sounds too imperial and noble for a shady character like him (even though the word august itself can be used as a synonym for noble).

4 hours ago, ping said:

there's less of a reason for Hector and Lyn to receive personal weapons with the same special property of the Rapier

Thinking on this, lords going full cavalry armour killer kind of ruined Lyn a little bit too. Like, if it wasn't for that she could have gotten something else for the Mani Katti instead of competing with Eliwood (and anyone with an armorslayer or ridersbanes) for a niche. Mani Katti gets a lot of focus in the plot yet feels disappointingly standard overalls. It would be pretty huge for Lyn's viability if it was a 1-2 range prf or an early game Brave Sword or something.

4 hours ago, ping said:

You just didn't play Genealogy often enough to appreciate its finer points. Before criticising it further, you should play it again. I'm sure that will improve your opinion on it.

No criticizing Genealogy until you've done a Ranked Subs Run with no Holy Weapons.

 

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

The best part of this guy is his release quote. Dude (seemingly) repents and becomes a fisherman if spared. I've always been sad that a lot of the game's bosses are uncapturable, because sparing those that can be spared and seeing how they react is so interesting

I wish more was done mechanically with that feature. Like, you get certain rewards for sparing certain enemies, but sparing other enemies comes to bite you back in the ass. Bucks goes on to find a quiet life as a fisherman and you get a crusader scroll or something as a reward, but if you spare Lopt bishop number 3 then the dude comes back to ambush you two chapters later because of course he's not going to repent and change his life style (except randomly make one lopt bishop do exactly that and sabotage the enemy just to humanize and provide flavour).

3 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

To its credit, the single most important and most crippling to miss gaiden is also... kind of impossible to miss unless you actively let it happen? Those houses are super easy to protect. Though I maintain that it should not have been missable, period. It's your introduction to fog, your introduction to capturing bosses and not letting them go, your introduction to thieves, your introduction to healers, your introduction to scrolls...

Seriously, the more I think about it the worse it seems. Why the fuck is 2x missable? There's so much to unpack! Anyway, I forgot the point I was making.

Even August's introduction here is tied to the Gaiden in a narrative sense. Like we've set up August as a character by using Lifis as a character. Yet you can just walk off and never see Lifis (until you get to the end game and one of the Deadlords randomly has the face of someone you've never seen before).

3 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

This translation makes no mention of Lifis here. A liberty, probably, because in the old one - and I imagine in the original, though I cannot know for sure, it wouldn't be the first time the old translation just invented shit - he explictly says he's joining up to fight Lifis.

...Which very quickly becomes an extremely stupid motivation for him to stick with Leif. So I can follow the logic of wording this more vaguely.

Ronan is the Jamke of Thracia. Only unlike Jamke he sucks at combat. But Jamke being good at combat is largely irrelevant because he can't pass down any good skills. So yes, Jamke is the the Ronan of Genealogy.

2 hours ago, BrightBow said:

In any case, being a bow user is just not great in Thracia. Not just because Tanya and Ronan have really poor bases, but also because capturing is such a huge part of the game. And bows simply cannot do that because they cannot initiate combat at 1 range.

Dagdar can also use how's from base if you really do need someone to, which kind of invalidates his daughter entirely.

2 hours ago, BrightBow said:

As for Book 2 Arran, you know it wouldn't surprise me if it at one point he was actually meant to be the same old Jagen.
Then one day they decided to have Jagen take Malledus's role, so he became too important to die as a unit

That was a curious choice on retrospect. Replacing one old man who says stiff for another old man who says stuff. It's not like they actually did anything with Malledus being sick or dead (or captured in Pyrathi*wink*wink*). The replacement was entirely unnecessary. I'm not disappointed they did it, Jeigan is a bit more fun than Malledus, who is a pretty boring character, but there really wasn't much reason to. I guess it's kind of some fun realism, the guy who ostensibly sucked at fighting because he's old is now retired and can't fight at all. But they did kind of do Malledus dirty by just removing him entirely from the plot. At least give him some pathos by having Hardin kill him or something.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 5/6/2024 at 4:47 AM, Saint Rubenio said:

Uh, yes!

...Who?

FYI, it's this guy.

On 5/6/2024 at 4:47 AM, Saint Rubenio said:

They at least bothered to rebrand it for Ike, but it's the exact same sword. Even though the games became less and less reliant on armored enemies and the ol' rapier became less useful for each protagonist.

IMO Thani is great on Micaiah, mainly because she, uh, doesn't really have any combat otherwise. Its Rapier effectiveness, while useful, kinda comes from nowhere thematically.

6 hours ago, ping said:

: "You're just jealous that you won't be the queen of Thracia, you jerk!"

: "Queen? I thought we were an autonomous collective!"

6 hours ago, ping said:

Overall, Ronan seems like an upgrade to Tanya, whose main feature is her support for Osian and Dagdar. But of course, I don't know how exactly their growths compare - I do know that Ronan has a substantial Mag/Res growth, as well as a small chance to level +Mov, but I don't know if that comes at the cost of lower Str/Spd growths.

Azelle!Faval woulda been so good here. He was just born into the wrong campaign...

6 hours ago, ping said:

What a mess of perspective. The "leaves" in Jugdrali villages always threw me off, simultaneously lookong like foreground and background. But now the tree trunk is cutting into Leif's shoulder?

Side note, but Thracia's portraits are some of the most... uncanny... for me to revisit. They're a clear improvement from FE4, and honestly much closer to GBAFE. But at the same time, definitely different from what would follow. Less colorful, more grounded... not my cup of tea. But arguably, the best portraits up until the Tellius games.

7 hours ago, ping said:

...and it comes without reward. Good character, I've been told.

The "no Crusader Scrolls?" experience.

7 hours ago, ping said:

He was a red unit before the start of the fight! Kill him!

I do appreciate August's design, at the very least. A bald (but not clean-shaven) grumpy old man? Not something we see much anymore. Even our older Jagens, like Gunther, Meißen, and Vander have more of a "Grandpa" vibe. ...Or "Daddy", if that's what you're into. Not so for August, who is that "borderline-racist uncle whom your parents reluctantly invite to family gatherings, only for him to break into the liquor cabinet and become uncomfortably handsy with the in-laws".

...Huh, apparently I have a lot to say about that one screenshot.

[Shaky Jones]

7 hours ago, ping said:

and that people point to him as one of the strongest characters in Jugdral. Narratively, of course

You don't know what's hiding under his robes.

7 hours ago, ping said:

It took two chapters to get to get the third damsel into distress. Kaga's in rare form today.

I just imagine several employees cheering and pumping their fists in the air each time Kaga codes in those damned damsels, motivating him to one up himself.

7 hours ago, ping said:

Not entirely sure what to do with this one. I know, "Leif" is probably the "optimal" play here, but since I avoided the "feed all the everything to the main lord" playstyle for the last four games, I don't really want to start now. Marty would seem like another obvious pick, but there isn't much point in going from unable to double to still unable to double

Well with 20 being the cap, there is a set goal. Don't you want to say you capped Marty's speed?

7 hours ago, ping said:

Weapon Level: Bows (E+30)
Skill: Adept

7 hours ago, ping said:

Overall, Ronan seems like an upgrade to Tanya, whose main feature is her support for Osian and Dagdar. But of course, I don't know how exactly their growths compare - I do know that Ronan has a substantial Mag/Res growth, as well as a small chance to level +Mov, but I don't know if that comes at the cost of lower Str/Spd growths.

He's worth everything. Kaga finally reached peak archer.

And then he made Ruka, who's also pretty silly to use. We have Ronan to thank for that. I just hope BWS and VS doesn't make me hate everything he stands for. I only hate most things he stands for as is.

7 hours ago, ping said:

Boss kill is, again, very basic...

No capture. Illegitimate run. Leif's the bad guy.

7 hours ago, ping said:

..Shaky, I hate to inform you that skeletons generally don't have facial hair or scar tissue. I'll admit that you somehow still seem to maintain a full head of hair.

It's not about what you or I look like. It's about the vibe the video game villains bring trying to distract me from Kaga's very sad obsessions with tropes and personal kinks.

7 hours ago, ping said:

You just didn't play Genealogy often enough to appreciate its finer points. Before criticizing it further, you should play it again. I'm sure that will improve your opinion on it.

What do I look like? Ruben? That won't work on me.

6 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I'm not convinced he's not one of the strongest characters in Jugdral just in general. He could probably put Seliph in a chokehold. Jokes aside, he could definitely make Seliph cry.

Anyone could and should hurt Seliph. Just throw some water at them. Cardboard is very weak to that.

6 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Hey @Shaky Jones remember those talks we had? About the one heal staff? This is what I meant.

...Don't worry about it, just an unrelated topic.

You should be grateful you can follow Kaga's hypnotic footsteps. Elixer vulns. 5 vulns. Same difference.

6 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

To its credit, the single most important and most crippling to miss gaiden is also... kind of impossible to miss unless you actively let it happen? Those houses are super easy to protect. Though I maintain that it should not have been missable, period. It's your introduction to fog, your introduction to capturing bosses and not letting them go, your introduction to thieves, your introduction to healers, your introduction to scrolls...

Seriously, the more I think about it the worse it seems. Why the fuck is 2x missable? There's so much to unpack! Anyway, I forgot the point I was making.

You were going to talk about how much you love Ronan.

6 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Shaky just cannot win. I, on the other hand, do not know the meaning of the word lose.

Your education system failed you, like a lot of things from Spain.

6 hours ago, ping said:

Genuinely impressed that that's a thing. Now I almost feel bad for murdering him.

You should.

4 hours ago, BrightBow said:

7 hours ago, ping said:

And I know that Lifis might be the most morally bankrupt character you can recruit in the entire series.

Pre-FE7 anyway.

FE7 got Athos, who is basically Elibe's version of a retired Nazi general. Also Karel, who kills people just for fun. And of course in Awakening, everyone kills people for fun.

Quick Ruben! Get mad about Gotoh again!

4 hours ago, BrightBow said:

I mean, we had two different protagonists before with Alm and Celica. And they both play very differently.

2 characters who get to use said talents in completely terrible excuses of maps.

And then Kaga did it again.

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

No criticizing Genealogy until you've done a Ranked Subs Run with no Holy Weapons.

I should tell elitists they can't shit on FE12 until they beat reverse lunatic. That'll actually require them to play the game.

[Revier]

Huh, that was a pretty unremarkable second chapter. And here I was thinking the game would pick up immediately after the obligatory intro. What a fool I was, lol.

[Jotari]

46 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

They're a clear improvement from FE4, and honestly much closer to GBAFE. But at the same time, definitely different from what would follow. Less colorful, more grounded... not my cup of tea. But arguably, the best portraits up until the Tellius games.

That's some serious shade your throwing on all 20 of the BS: Archanea Saga portraits right there.

 

 

[ping]

9 hours ago, BrightBow said:

Being a green unit would not necessarily have been better.

Riiiight, yeah, I remember. In FE's first defend map, I believe.

9 hours ago, BrightBow said:

Not being playable is a very big distinction.

As for Book 2 Arran, you know it wouldn't surprise me if it at one point he was actually meant to be the same old Jagen.
Then one day they decided to have Jagen take Malledus's role, so he became too important to die as a unit.

It is what it is, though. Genealogy establishes the Triangle Attack as something that isn't unique to Palla, Catria, and Est - or even to the Winged Pony class line. And Book 2 Arran exists as he is, no matter the development behind it. And while they don't follow the formula every step of the way, Jugdral also has Sigurd, Quan, and Oifey as strong earlygame promoted horse units. Even Finn is one of the big carries in the earlygame, although he certainly gets overshadowed by Dagdar and Eyvel (and maybe even Osian crits).

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

Well it would defensively give him the potential to prevent being doubled, which is also really important. And if you do intend to use Marty long term his speed can be fixed with Scrolls. Though my knowledge of Thracia is not so perfect as to know exactly when the speed enhancing scrolls come.

My guess would be that it'll come with Asbel, since he's Lewyn!Ced's pupil and all that. But we'll see.

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

Thinking on this, lords going full cavalry armour killer kind of ruined Lyn a little bit too. Like, if it wasn't for that she could have gotten something else for the Mani Katti instead of competing with Eliwood (and anyone with an armorslayer or ridersbanes) for a niche. Mani Katti gets a lot of focus in the plot yet feels disappointingly standard overalls. It would be pretty huge for Lyn's viability if it was a 1-2 range prf or an early game Brave Sword or something.

Lyn as a bow lord, with a 1-2 range bow as Mani Katti replacement.

Always thought that a bit more of a bow focus for Lyn would've been cool - in general, I was thinking of bow access before promotion, but bow-lock with some limited 1-2 range access could've been cool, too.

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

No criticizing Genealogy until you've done a Ranked Subs Run with no Holy Weapons.

Ironman no-Arena Ranked Sub Run with no Holy Weapons. Can't allow any scrubs to pollute the discussion with their bad opinions.

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

Ronan is the Jamke of Thracia. Only unlike Jamke he sucks at combat. But Jamke being good at combat is largely irrelevant because he can't pass down any good skills. So yes, Jamke is the the Ronan of Genealogy.

So he's the anti-Jamke: Awful combat, but good mobility - in particular once indoor maps become a thing.

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

: "Queen? I thought we were an autonomous collective!"

: "We WERE. Now go get me a crown and then keep, I dunno, milking the chickens or whatever peasants do all day."

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

What a mess of perspective. The "leaves" in Jugdrali villages always threw me off, simultaneously lookong like foreground and background. But now the tree trunk is cutting into Leif's shoulder?

If only the portraits were wide enough to fit all of the characters' shoulders. But yeah, the effect is a bit odd - like cardboard cutouts that somebody did a bad job cutting out.

5 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

What do I look like? Ruben? That won't work on me.

Oh, that's OK. I'll just keep in mind that your opinions on Genealogy aren't really informed.

 

[Jotari]

40 minutes ago, ping said:

Lyn as a bow lord, with a 1-2 range bow as Mani Katti replacement.

Always thought that a bit more of a bow focus for Lyn would've been cool - in general, I was thinking of bow access before promotion, but bow-lock with some limited 1-2 range access could've been cool, too.

I made a hack for that. Giving Eliwood lance lock and Lyn bow lock at tier 1. One of the more surprising things was a few sword units you have to use special weapons like armorslayers or killing edges in the early game with them gone (though I did mess up recruiting Raven too which compounded that a bit).

40 minutes ago, ping said:

Ironman no-Arena Ranked Sub Run with no Holy Weapons. Can't allow any scrubs to pollute the discussion with their bad opinions.

Well naturally. You're not even allowed to say the words Fire Emblem if you're not currently playing an ironman run of some game.

[Revier]

50 minutes ago, ping said:

Ironman no-Arena Ranked Sub Run with no Holy Weapons.

Also speedrun the game while rescuing all the villages. All of them.

Just as Kaga intended.

[Saint Rubenio]

15 hours ago, ping said:

Genuinely impressed that that's a thing. Now I almost feel bad for murdering him.

Yeah, anything that has less than 20 con and isn't sitting on a mount can be captured. No exceptions for bosses.

For what it's worth, chapter 1's bossman Weissmann goes something like "bested by a bunch of backwood yokels... Well, I won't forget this!" and then proceeds never to show up again. It doesn't usually amount to much, outside of getting the bossmen's weaponry (which isn't even all that a lot of the time), but it's a quaint little detail.

15 hours ago, ping said:

As you said, you can't fault Kaga for inconsistency. It's almost impossible to miss by accident, but since this is Thracia, there must be a 1% chance of failure.

I didn't even realize, but... yeah, this does go well in line with the guy who capped minimum and maximum hit to 1% and 99% respectively.

15 hours ago, ping said:

To be honest, I think I prefer "Augustus", since without the -us, the name has a clear connotation to clowns. At least in German, dunno about other countries/languages.

lmao. I can't say it does in my country, but that's great.

15 hours ago, ping said:

His dayjob was basketball player on the Center position (i.e. the big guy playing closest to the basket). Held the record for most points scored until very recently, too. So yeah, actual giant. 218 cm, according to wikipedia.

Jesus, that's almost 50 centimeters taller than Bruce. No wonder that looked so silly.

13 hours ago, BrightBow said:

FE7 got Athos, who is basically Elibe's version of a retired Nazi general.

I mean, Athos never made Eliwood and company hike through deserts, volcanoes, glaciars and houses full of thieves and dragons for no reason while the world was at stake.

13 hours ago, BrightBow said:

Oh definitely. 3 protagonists and they are all just Marth clones.

Ehhh incorrect. Hector is very different as both a character and a unit. Not that I'm particularly a fan of him, mind, but Marth clone he is not. The only thing remotely Marthish about him is the axe, which is admittedly a shame, but that's something every post-Kaga lord is shackled with until Fates.

11 hours ago, Jotari said:

Even August's introduction here is tied to the Gaiden in a narrative sense. Like we've set up August as a character by using Lifis as a character. Yet you can just walk off and never see Lifis (until you get to the end game and one of the Deadlords randomly has the face of someone you've never seen before).

It's even funnier because if you don't get 2x you basically meet August and then immediately say goodbye to him and are left wondering what the deal was with the old guy. His role in 2x isn't super big, but at least you're with him for a little bit that way.

9 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

IMO Thani is great on Micaiah, mainly because she, uh, doesn't really have any combat otherwise. Its Rapier effectiveness, while useful, kinda comes from nowhere thematically.

lol I actually forgot Micaiah also got the rapier even though she's in a completely different classline that already excells at killing armors. Was that really necessary, guys?

9 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Side note, but Thracia's portraits are some of the most... uncanny... for me to revisit. They're a clear improvement from FE4, and honestly much closer to GBAFE. But at the same time, definitely different from what would follow. Less colorful, more grounded... not my cup of tea. But arguably, the best portraits up until the Tellius games.

I, on the other hand, like them precisely because of that. Less colorful and more grounded is my cup of tea. But well, you know what they say, all toasters to each their own.

9 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I do appreciate August's design, at the very least. A bald (but not clean-shaven) grumpy old man? Not something we see much anymore. Even our older Jagens, like Gunther, Meißen, and Vander have more of a "Grandpa" vibe. ...Or "Daddy", if that's what you're into. Not so for August, who is that "borderline-racist uncle whom your parents reluctantly invite to family gatherings, only for him to break into the liquor cabinet and become uncomfortably handsy with the in-laws".

...Huh, apparently I have a lot to say about that one screenshot.

His head is also not perfectly round. It's a small detail but the only other bald character like that on the player's side is Oliver, and Oliver's... well, Oliver. It adds to August's rugged appearance.

August passes for a generic bossman that gets recolored two or three times. I like it too - blurs the line a bit on the good ol' "everyone on the player's side is handsome" effect which is much too prevalent, and it really fits the guy just in general.

9 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

You were going to talk about how much you love Ronan.

I like Selfina more.

9 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Your education system failed you, like a lot of things from Spain.

What would you know, yankee?

9 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Quick Ruben! Get mad about Gotoh again!

I actually did before I scrolled down enough to see this.

I really am that predictable, huh.

9 hours ago, Revier said:

Huh, that was a pretty unremarkable second chapter. And here I was thinking the game would pick up immediately after the obligatory intro. What a fool I was, lol.

The game takes a little longer to get going.

Exactly, until chapter 3. Then it gets going. I'd argue it takes less long than Genealogy does - a chapter in Thracia is a lot shorter than a chapter in Genealogy, and by the time of Thracia's chapter 3 Genealogy is still meandering with the generic kidnapping of the neighboring maiden.

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

That's some serious shade your throwing on all 20 of the BS: Archanea Saga portraits right there.

Oh yeah, BSFE had the best portrait art in all of Kaga's era of FE. I so wish they'd kept that artist for FE5. I like FE5's portraits but BSFE was built different.

3 hours ago, ping said:

If only the portraits were wide enough to fit all of the characters' shoulders. But yeah, the effect is a bit odd - like cardboard cutouts that somebody did a bad job cutting out.

It works better with other backgrounds. Interiors in particular use pillars and walls to hide the shoulder cutoff. Here they... tried a similar thing with the trees and it didn't really work.

[Jotari]

35 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Yeah, anything that has less than 20 con and isn't sitting on a mount can be captured. No exceptions for bosses.

And that on a mount thing is only for the first half of the game. After that you have access to sleep and even mounted units can be captured.

35 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I mean, Athos never made Eliwood and company hike through deserts, volcanoes, glaciars and houses full of thieves and dragons for no reason while the world was at stake.

Is that sarcasm? Because he kind of did. Well, except the glaciers part. Sure he gets warp happy at the end, but there's a whole bunch of walking around before then. And for crying out loud the dude must know where the shrine of seals is. He was probably there when it was built. He could have cut out half the game by fetching a mountain based map of Bern and saying "somewhere around here. South central east."

35 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

lol I actually forgot Micaiah also got the rapier even though she's in a completely different classline that already excells at killing armors. Was that really necessary, guys?

Probably. Armoured knights actually have Res in Radiant Dawn.

If we are designing non rapier weapons for lord though, then I suggest Mickey get a tome that has built in vantage. You then take Wrath of Edward, put her down to 1hp via sacrifice and then let her go to town on enemies. Coming to think of it, Wrath Miciaha might be a decent build for her even without vantage tome. She'll die on one hit anyway, might as well make her a Crit machine with a near certain HP lost mechanic.

Edited May 9 by Jotari

[BrightBow]

43 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I mean, Athos never made Eliwood and company hike through deserts, volcanoes, glaciars and houses full of thieves and dragons for no reason while the world was at stake.

Genocide is on a whole different level of evil, you know.

Besides, Athos pretty much did all of that anyway, being a poor knockoff of an already poor character.

For one thing the world very much was at stake, with Nergal needing to be defeated while he was still licking his wounds.

Knowing that, Athol let Eliwood and Co. wander aimlessly through the desert instead of simply teleporting to them. He eventually send out Hawkeye, just like Goto send out Xane, to guide them slowly to his location instead of getting off his own ass.
Then he did the same thing again, sending them without directions to find a secret location in the hostile Biran.

By the time all that pointlessness was done, Nergal was already restored and nearly untouchable even by divine weapons and teleported straight onto their asses. Oops.
And the only reason Nergal didn't just kill everyone right then and there is because then the game would be over. As Athos himself admits, Nergal was more than capable of that.

Also held on to those Heaven Seals too. Just kinda handing them out whenever he feels like. Not to mention all the other shit he has stuck in his sock drawer, like the Sol Katti.

Edited May 9 by BrightBow

[Saint Rubenio]

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Is that sarcasm? Because he kind of did. Well, except the glaciers part. Sure he gets warp happy at the end, but there's a whole bunch of walking around before then. And for crying out loud the dude must know where the shrine of seals is. He was probably there when it was built. He could have cut out half the game by fetching a mountain based map of Bern and saying "somewhere around here. South central east."

Just now, BrightBow said:

 

Besides, Athos pretty much did all of that anyway, being a poor knockoff of an already poor character.

...Yeah, I had remembered it was basically just the one legendary weapon chapter, but he did just leave the main characters to figure the whole Shrine of Seals thing out for themselves, didn't he...

1 minute ago, BrightBow said:

Genocide is on a whole different level of evil, you know.

2 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

Knowing that, Athol let Eliwood and Co. wander aimlessly through the desert instead of simply teleporting to them. He eventually send out Hawkeye, just like Goto send out Xane, to guide them slowly to his location instead of getting off his own ass.
Then he did the same thing again, sending them without directions to find a secret location in the hostile Biran.

By the time all that pointlessness was done, Nergal was already restored and nearly untouchable even by divine weapons and teleported straight onto their asses. Oops.
And the only reason Nergal didn't just kill everyone right then and there is because then the game would be over. As Athos himself admits, Nergal was more than capable of that.

1 minute ago, BrightBow said:

Also held on to those Heaven Seals too. Just kinda handing them out whenever he feels like. Not to mention other shit he has stuck in his sock drawer, like the Sol Katti.

You know, you make fair points.

But I needed an opportunity to get mad at Gotoh again. Surely you understand.

[BrightBow]

27 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

...Yeah, I had remembered it was basically just the one legendary weapon chapter, but he did just leave the main characters to figure the whole Shrine of Seals thing out for themselves, didn't he...

Not to mention Athos also had the option of just teleporting straight to the weakened Nergal and finish him off. Maybe aided by Eliwood in order to keep his morph army busy.
Wouldn't have worked with Gharnef because unless you have Starlight, Gharnef is literally

and Gotoh cannot create the spell without the Star Orb.

Meanwhile Nergal had to lick his wounds after being stabbed by Elbert's knife. Forblazing him in this state would probably be more than enough.

Plus, Gotoh is one of the survivors of the genocide that the humans committed against his people, instead of being one of the perpetrators of it.
So he's got plenty of reason to not care all that much about humanity's fate.

Edited May 9 by BrightBow

[Saint Rubenio]

7 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

Not to mention Athos also had the option of just teleporting straight to the weakened Nergal and finish him off. Maybe aided by Eliwood in order to keep his morph army busy.
Wouldn't have worked with Gharnef because unless you have Starlight, Gharnef is literally

and Gotoh cannot create the spell without the Star Orb.

Meanwhile Nergal had to lick his wounds after being stabbed by Elbert's knife. Forblazing him in this state would probably be more than enough.

Plus, Gotoh is one of the survivors of the genocide that the humans committed against his people, instead of being one of the perpetrators of it.
So he's got plenty of reason to not care all that much about humanity's fate.

...I can't believe someone's arguing in Gotoh's favor to me and I'm agreeing.

Yeah, you know what? Fuck Athos too. Let's move on from all these godawful godly men and instead focus on the real awesome old guy in the series, who was introduced just last update.

[BrightBow]

1 hour ago, Saint Rubenio said:

...I can't believe someone's arguing in Gotoh's favor to me and I'm agreeing.

Yeah, you know what? Fuck Athos too. Let's move on from all these godawful godly men and instead focus on the real awesome old guy in the series, who was introduced just last update.

Only arguing in favor relative to Athos.

Gotoh is bad, sure. But Athos is a special kind of awful. Gotoh's actions generally at least make sense on a conceptual level. Like, sending Marth across Anri's way to see the forgotten corners of the continent with his own eyes and give him a history lesson along the way is not a bad concept and makes sense for his character.
But it runs into all kinds of problems, like being part of the plot of Book 2 instead of Book 1, where the dragons were actually an important part of the plot. But Book 2 has Hardin as a fellow human being the main villain. Not to mention him acknowledging at the end of Book 1 that Marth has proven himself to him, so why sending him through hoops in Book 2?

Athos just acts the way he does because he is not written as an actual character, but merely to resemble an existing mold, with no consideration for how his actions and behavior make sense for his personal character and background.

Like how he addresses Eliwood and Hector that one time as "children of Roland" and Lyn as "daughter of Hanon and Roland".
I mean, do you talk like that? When a friend gets a kid, do you address them as "child of Steve" instead of addressing them by their given name?
Like FE7 in general, it's both ridiculous at it's face and somehow gets even dumber the more you think about it.
I mean, they are not even "children of Roland" in any way that isn't completely abstract to the point of being meaningless. Their parents just happened to be native to the country he founded.
Sure, they might be part of some of the ruling families of the Lycian league. But after 1000 years I wouldn't exactly bet on any of them being a part of Roland's personal family tree, no matter how incestuous the various houses of the league might historically have been.

But of course it sounds mysterious, and FE7 treats "mysterious" like being a character trait instead of something that is the result of character traits.

So he also gives the heroes "trials" because that's what the ancient ones do to young heroes.
In a good story the writers would of course think about such trivial questions as "What are heroes supposed to prove with those trials?" or "Why does the quest giver want anything proven to him in the first place?". Not here, though.

Edited May 9 by BrightBow

[Revier]

2 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

by the time of Thracia's chapter 3 Genealogy is still meandering with the generic kidnapping of the neighboring maiden.

Tbqh I would say the prologue of Genealogy is one of its best and most effective bits. Yes there's a damsel getting kidnapped and a raid by bandits, but they are smartly recontextualized to be the machinations of an underhanded kingdom taking advantage of an empire being preoccupied by a distant war, with Sigurd and co. being the only people capable of putting them down in the moment. Having all of Sigurd's friends show up, while a bit silly, helps solidify the serious nature of the invasion, as well as sell how influential and well liked he is. It definitely puts a lot of effort into getting the player hooked, and while there are definitely some missteps, I would say it succeeds more than not.

Quote

But of course it sounds mysterious, and FE7 treats "mysterious" like being a character trait instead of something that is the result of character traits.

...

In a good story the writers would of course think about such trivial questions as "What are heroes supposed to prove with those trials?" or "Why does the quest giver want anything proven to him in the first place?". Not here, though.

Spot on, this is a good take on why so many writers fail to make compelling stories.

Edited May 9 by Revier

[Jotari]

9 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

Only arguing in favor relative to Athos.

Gotoh is bad, sure. But Athos is a special kind of awful. Gotoh's actions generally at least make sense on a conceptual level. Like, sending Marth across Anri's way to see the forgotten corners of the continent with his own eyes and give him a history lesson along the way is not a bad concept and makes sense for his character.
But it runs into all kinds of problems, like being part of the plot of Book 2 instead of Book 1, where the dragons were actually an important part of the plot. But Book 2 has Hardin as a fellow human being the main villain. Not to mention him acknowledging at the end of Book 1 that Marth has proven himself to him, so why sending him through hoops in Book 2?

Gotoh, in a way not much unlike Athos, kind of fails on this point because Marth is the one cleaning up Gotoh's shit. It's Gotoh's fault things are this way. It was his apprentice that stole his dark sphere and revived his enemy because he sucked as a teacher. But he just expects Marth to go around the world collecting orbs so Marth can defeat Gharnef. Dude, you have the power to warp entire armies. Bring Marth to you and help him collect the orbs yourself. You don't even personally take to the battlefield until Gharnef is dead and Medeus is cornered. Maybe if you showed up to fight Gharnef yourself then he wouldn't have cheated death and caused all the problems in Book 2.  Not to mention the world is literally at stake in Book 2 because of the shattered Starsphere and the most he could do is sent Wendell off to collect the shards. Is drinking tea at the ice temple really more important than searching for these things yourself?

The whole idea of the wise oracle testing the hero only works if the tester has no stake in the conflict. If they're just an outside for charged with arbitration and stopping the quest reward from falling into the wrong hands. But Gotoh not only has an invested interest in seeing Marth's side win, it's his fault this is all happening in the first place by training the guy running about the place mucking things up. A character should either have the capacity to help, but no desire to do so; or the desire to help, but no capacity to do so. Gotoh has both the desire to help and the evident capacity to do so, but just doesn't, which makes him look kind of lazy at best and an asshole at worst.

Phew, didn't realize I had that much pent up hatred for Gotoh. Still, what a cool head piece he wears. 7/10, decent character.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Phew, didn't realize I had that much pent up hatred for Gotoh. Still, what a cool head piece he wears. 7/10, decent character.

Like Nintendo has ever been big on serious stories?🤔 -Fire Emblem has always been an exception like that. And as for Gotoh specifically...

...reminder that this is what Nintendo had been cooking when was he was first invented. And was still largely cooking on the SNES one year after FE1, seven maidens trapped in crystals is Kaga-rific. And kept cooking with the Sages in OoT. (And Mario, Donkey King, Metroid, Kirby, F-Zero, Star Fox, Pokemon... not huge on grounded logical stories either back in the day.)

Genealogy Gen 1 and Thracia were the aberrations in Nintendo's then-portfolio. Gotoh and Gen 2 Lewyn were not, they were... misplaced let's say.😛 Misplaced, in that it's harder to justify aloof wise men in a more developed story like those Fire Emblem has had.

-I'm just looking for a way to not get infuriated by some senile pixels.😄 

Edited May 9 by Interdimensional Observer

[Jotari]

20 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Like Nintendo has ever been big on serious stories?🤔 -Fire Emblem has always been an exception like that. And as for Gotoh specifically...

...reminder that this is what Nintendo had been cooking when was he was first invented. And was still largely cooking on the SNES one year after FE1, seven maidens trapped in crystals is Kaga-rific. And kept cooking with the Sages in OoT. (And Mario, Donkey King, Metroid, Kirby, F-Zero, Star Fox, Pokemon... not huge on grounded logical stories either back in the day.)

Genealogy Gen 1 and Thracia were the aberrations in Nintendo's then-portfolio. Gotoh and Gen 2 Lewyn were not, they were... misplaced let's say.😛 Misplaced, in that it's harder to justify aloof wise men in a more developed story like those Fire Emblem has had.

-I'm just looking for a way to not get infuriated by some senile pixels.😄 

Issie with that logic is that I first met Gotoh in a game released in 2009.

[Interdimensional Observer]

20 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Issie with that logic is that I first met Gotoh in a game released in 2009.

Call it a Remake Too Faithful. Not sure if there's any other excuse that I give for that.😅

And, it would be fair to say that I'm overly forgiving.😆

[Saint Rubenio]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Gotoh, in a way not much unlike Athos, kind of fails on this point because Marth is the one cleaning up Gotoh's shit. It's Gotoh's fault things are this way. It was his apprentice that stole his dark sphere and revived his enemy because he sucked as a teacher. But he just expects Marth to go around the world collecting orbs so Marth can defeat Gharnef. Dude, you have the power to warp entire armies. Bring Marth to you and help him collect the orbs yourself. You don't even personally take to the battlefield until Gharnef is dead and Medeus is cornered. Maybe if you showed up to fight Gharnef yourself then he wouldn't have cheated death and caused all the problems in Book 2.  Not to mention the world is literally at stake in Book 2 because of the shattered Starsphere and the most he could do is sent Wendell off to collect the shards. Is drinking tea at the ice temple really more important than searching for these things yourself?

The whole idea of the wise oracle testing the hero only works if the tester has no stake in the conflict. If they're just an outside for charged with arbitration and stopping the quest reward from falling into the wrong hands. But Gotoh not only has an invested interest in seeing Marth's side win, it's his fault this is all happening in the first place by training the guy running about the place mucking things up. A character should either have the capacity to help, but no desire to do so; or the desire to help, but no capacity to do so. Gotoh has both the desire to help and the evident capacity to do so, but just doesn't, which makes him look kind of lazy at best and an asshole at worst.

Phew, didn't realize I had that much pent up hatred for Gotoh. Still, what a cool head piece he wears. 7/10, decent character.

I've been saying this for years