FE9 Tier list v3

[Ema Skye]

Oscar will kill units before Boyd reaches them. Oscar also doubles sooner with forged Javelins than Boyd will with forged Hand Axes.

Oscar and Boyd don't even exist in Ch.4, and Ch.7 has no cavaliers.

Yeah, Oscar doesn't slay knights better than Boyd or Titania do, but it isn't like every enemy in the game is a knight.

Boyd isn't ferrying Ike to the thrones in Ch.1, Ch.6, Ch.9 or Ch.11. Oscar is. That's something else for Oscar's advantage.

Movement matters a lot in FE9, much more than you're giving it credit for. Boyd's a foot unit. That alone pretty much stops him from being high tier. He can't ferry Ike nearly as well as a mounted unit. He can't see combat as fast as a mounted unit can. Sure Boyd his hard, but he won't get a chance to hit anything with Oscar/Kieran/Marcia/Tanith/Jill/Astrid/Ttiania roaming around. FE9 is a game where those with ponies reign supreme.

[Chiki]

Yeah but he won't be 2HKOing them like Boyd will the soldiers in Ch4, knights in Ch6 or knights/cavaliers in 7. Lances < Axes, Boyd's AS > Oscar AS when talking about best weapons for each character at knight smashing time, and Boyd's Atk > Oscar's

Yeah, if Boyd is even reaching them.

1. He doesn't have enough move compared to Oscar.

2. He has a lot worse durability than Oscar.

If we played like a turtle, I'd totally agree that Boyd > Oscar. But we aren't.

[-Cynthia-]

Also with this AS loss business, we can just hand Oscar and Kieran Iron forges to take care of that issue while keeping their Mt high. Not sure Boyd wants a Steel Axe over an Iron Axe forge himself, the low Hit+ low Skl of Boyd makes wielding a Steel Axe unappealing (and the Iron Forge hits harder regardless).

[pikablu]

Yeah, if Boyd is even reaching them.

1. He doesn't have enough move compared to Oscar.

2. He has a lot worse durability than Oscar.

If we played like a turtle, I'd totally agree that Boyd > Oscar. But we aren't.

I didn't make it very clear in my post btw but my primary argument is Boyd > Kieran, please remember that (Oscar was just a bonus), Boyd IS reaching enemies in many cases, movement being important to fulfill objectives is different, but for combat purposes Boyd can reach enemies and also seeing as he is probably the 1st one to promote he gains the +1 Move and reduces the movement gap between him and the cavaliers (until they promote of course). Boyd can also see combat with Hand Axe-type weapon up to 8 (or 9) spaces away which is more than enough in nearly every chapter to start gaining exp (on first turn). And because of that high Str + Ice Supports + Axes, he'll likely go through most units 2HKOs (same cannot be said of Oscar or Kieran) which nets much more exp than just hitting a few different units (which is what Kieran will definitely do and Oscar may not but is more than likely to).

Regarding durability, Boyd has a substantial HP advantage over Oscar that keeps getting larger and yeah the defense lead is there but gets bigger less so, due to the appearance of Boyd's Ice supports. However, the AS lead over Oscar if anything is non-existent (0.6 at the most in favour of Oscar) and in fact helps Boyd out in the beginning.

Concerning movement, yeah sure I see what you're saying BUT like I said in that big post, movement doesn't always help. It doesn't help in Ch 1, 2, 5, 7, 8, 11 (well beginning definitely not), 12, 13 (ok beginning granted + saving Astrid, but Boyd becomes possible to play with on Turn 2/3 and which he's better than Kieran for the most part), 15, 17, 19, 20, 22, 24 (only at the beginning, because enemies block the way, Boyd can start contributing Turn 2), 25 (because enemies constantly block the way), 26 (deceiving but Boyd can start contributing immediately and is prob the best person to keep those top units at bay), 28, F.

It doesn't help when the enemies are right next to you/compact in a big group/terrain does not allow you/chapter makes it irrelevant/durability does not allow you to (in Kieran's case especially), please consult my post for reasons why each chapter is in favour of one character or the other.

And even if it does, Oscar/Kieran will not 2HKO, Boyd will (the AS of all are pretty much the same with Oscar's and Boyd's gradually taking over Kieran's).

Oscar will kill units before Boyd reaches them. Oscar also doubles sooner with forged Javelins than Boyd will with forged Hand Axes.

This option is still not available until Chapter 8 so prior to this chapter, Boyd still has advantages over Oscar in carrying the heavier weapons in Ch 1, 2, 5, 6, and 7. So Boyd carries a substantial advantage over Oscar when it comes to defeating enemies. The hammer/poleaxe being given to him of course as Titania does not need them in the beginning stages. The AS lead by Oscar when they are at the same level is not substantial enough to advantage Oscar over Boyd in doubling at the same level mind you (when you take into account that Boyd in those chapters where movement is irrelevant will be getting Exp like crazy) especially when that their speed difference remains constant(0.6) at each level and Boyd's Str really starts showing in Boyd after promotion, the stronger weapon - ie axes (which he can use sooner than Kieran) and Ice Supports). Oscar's killing no one fast that's for sure whereas Boyd is due to an increasingly higher strength gap (which is already apparent in the early chapters) with less AS cost than with Oscar.

Oscar and Boyd don't even exist in Ch.4, and Ch.7 has no cavaliers.

Whoops ha sorry about that! Changed it now, I meant to say in Ch 5, he's got the soldiers (literally all over the place) and Ch 8's cavaliers (the ones at the bottom).

Yeah, Oscar doesn't slay knights better than Boyd or Titania do, but it isn't like every enemy in the game is a knight.

Agreed, but at the same time, it's not only the knights that I mentioned Boyd can deal with (the fighters/bandits in Ch 1/2, cavaliers in Ch 8 and soldiers everywhere in Ch 5/8 - Oscar's doubling doesn't kill these and he has a real trouble with fighters/bandits in Ch 1/2). Also Knights/Generals do make up the majority of the boss count, so Boyd can effectively take these out in those chapters where movement does not matter which are more than you think check the top of the page again. Bosses (like Ena) for instance are the best way of demonstrating Boyd's combat ability being able to 2HKO nearly all of them at least, he can also OHKO cats w/Laguz Axe.

Boyd isn't ferrying Ike to the thrones in Ch.1, Ch.6, Ch.9 or Ch.11. Oscar is. That's something else for Oscar's advantage. Movement matters a lot in FE9, much more than you're giving it credit for. Boyd's a foot unit. That alone pretty much stops him from being high tier. He can't ferry Ike nearly as well as a mounted unit.

Sure but ferrying in Ch1 with Oscar is difficult, he is not durable enough to help Ike get to the other side, that role is fulfilled by Titania. In Ch 6, he can't do that again because the knights are in the way + his durability is lacking, loads of fighters, and it's just not secure enough to do then either. In Ch 9, he's definitely good here, I don't dispute that. In Ch 11, Oscar's movement makes a difference only after that big group of enemies is defeated next to the middle house which Boyd has enough move to contribute to a lot more effectively than Oscar and Kieran definitely (Boyd can be played straight off at turn 1), being able to double most of those cavaliers and actually kill them in the process, too often with Oscar/Kieran the cavaliers are left with 1 to 5 HP which Boyd's overkill strength would guarantee to eliminate.

He can't see combat as fast as a mounted unit can. Sure Boyd his hard, but he won't get a chance to hit anything with Oscar/Kieran/Marcia/Tanith/Jill/Astrid/Ttiania roaming around. FE9 is a game where those with ponies reign supreme.

He can which is what I'm saying, most chapters you actually start off next to enemies and usually it's a matter of going from 1 enemy to the next which is usually a few spaces away. He's also much more effective at 2HKOing these guys than Kieran (and even Oscar) resulting in a substantial level lead to over Kieran.

I'll copy my conclusion from the previous page please consult my argument before guys about the level lead and other stuff because I can understand that it may seem like I'm being biased to him but that's not the case, check it (also check Page 165 for chapter by chapter analysis):

So, in conclusion: Boyd conveys more utility than both Oscar and Kieran. He has a substantial level lead over Oscar and Kieran (because he'll be killing things with more Atk and lower speed penalties for higher Atk) whereas Oscar and Kieran with similar Atk will find it much harder to at least 2HKO. He is offensive-wise the best and can 2HKO practically anyone post Ch22 this is amplified by high Str growth, Ice Supports and Axes. His durability thanks to Ice supports is also better than Kieran's (higher HP and Res vs a bit more def by Kieran) and the same I would say over Oscar (much higher HP vs higher Def) and out of the three he is the best to take down mages and laguz (he can soak up the big hits). Yes the only thing I can really see Kieran having ahead of Boyd is movement but I've talked through each chapter and assessing how important movement is to each map.That AS too will be much better with Boyd in the beginning because he can afford to use the heavier weapons whereas everyone else will be having a much more difficult time. Over time Oscar = Boyd in AS (though still Boyd's offense takes advantage of it the most) but ALWAYS is better than Kieran's and can take advantage of axes much more substantially than Kieran. He is definitely better and makes more chapters more efficient than Kieran (11 vs 5 chapters). Kieran late arrival does not help the level lead and will not catch up with Boyd. Boyd > Kieran.

With Oscar, it boils down to higher Avo vs higher offense and because Boyd has such good Offense that he can 2HKO many guys which Oscar can only dream of, he is definitely more useful in spite of the lower avoid (also Boyd's avoid is good anyway after a point the Avoid lead becomes redundant). Oscar can get to places faster but takes longer taking enemies down, Boyd is more durable and at the same time can OHKO mages and 2HKO others (especially laguz).

[Ema Skye]

I didn't make it very clear in my post btw but my primary argument is Boyd > Kieran, please remember that (Oscar was just a bonus), Boyd IS reaching enemies in many cases, movement being important to fulfill objectives is different, but for combat purposes Boyd can reach enemies and also seeing as he is probably the 1st one to promote he gains the +1 Move

Kieran has 8 move.

Boyd has 6 move.

Enemy is 14 spaces away and he doesn't move (but attacks on the enemy phase if someone is adjacent to him).

Kieran reaches enemy in 2 turns. Boyd reaches him in 3. By the time Boyd gets to the enemy, Kieran could very well have killed it, netting Boyd 0 EXP.

There is no way Boyd is promoting first when Marcia, Jill, Oscar and Kieran can trivialize the game when the promote. Thus, they'll be the ones to promote due to both 9 move and BEXP.

Sure but ferrying in Ch1 with Oscar is difficult, he is not durable enough to help Ike get to the other side, that role is fulfilled by Titania. In Ch 6, he can't do that again because the knights are in the way + his durability is lacking, loads of fighters, and it's just not secure enough to do then either.

Yeah, it can happen. Ch.1 has Oscar ferry Ike over to where Titania can scoop him up. As for Ch.6, see here.

[aku chi]

If we played like a turtle, I'd totally agree that Boyd > Oscar. But we aren't.

Even that is arguable. Granted, when you consider Oscar's +2 mov, canto, and ability to rescue all non-mounted units: Oscar is so obviously better than Boyd. But even if we discounted those collosal advantages and just focus on their combat, Boyd > Oscar is a difficult case to make.

Earlygame: Chapters 1, 2, 5, 6, 7

Let's establish some facts about base stats:

Boyd - level 2 - 30 HP, 5 Def, 0 Res

w Iron Axe: 15 Atk, 3 AS, 87 Hit, 10 Avo

w Steel Axe: 18 Atk, 0 AS, 77 Hit, 4 Avo

w Hand Axe: 14 Atk, 0 AS, 67 Hit, 4 Avo

Oscar - level 3 - 26 HP, 8 Def, 0 Res

w Iron Lance: 13 Atk, 5 AS, 97 Hit, 15 Avo

w Steel Lance: 16 Atk, 0 AS, 87 Hit, 5 Avo

w Javelin: 12 Atk, 2 AS, 77 Hit, 9 Avo

Oscar has a huge offensive lead for one important reason: he has more than 4 AS with the Iron Lance in maps where the vast majority of enemies have 0 AS. Granted, Boyd will probably garner 4 AS with the Iron Lance after one level-up, but Oscar starts out with a clear advantage. Boyd has a minor Atk advantage made slightly more significant in Chapters 1 and 2 due to the prevelance of Axe-wielding enemies. Oscar has advantages in durability and Hit. It worth noting that Boyd has access to the Steel Axe in chapters 1 and 2 while Oscar does not have access to the Steel Lance. In practice, this matters little because Boyd simply cannot double with the Steel Axe and Oscar deals more damage by doubling with the Iron Lance.

Can Boyd ever develop an AS advantage over Oscar in the earlygame? Oscar starts with more Spd than Boyd and shares his Spd growth. Oscar wields weapons with lower Wt, but Boyd has more Str. pikablu paints an unrealistically generous portrait of Oscar and Boyd's early level gains. I submit that it is more realistic that Oscar and Boyd each gain 5 total levels in the 4 chapters preceding C7. Oscar receives slightly less Cexp per kill, but he has offensive and defensive advantages which should allow him to keep pace with Boyd (again, discounting his additional movement).

Boyd - level 7 - 33.8 HP, 6.25 Def, 1.25 Res

w Iron Axe: 18 Atk, 8.3 AS, 91.8 Hit, 22.3 Avo

w Steel Axe: 21 Atk, 3.3 AS, 81.8 Hit, 12.3 Avo

w Hand Axe: 17 Atk, 5.3 AS, 71.8 Hit, 16.3 Avo

Oscar - level 8 - 28.8 HP, 9.8 Def, 1.5 Res

w Iron Lance: 15.3 Atk, 9.3 AS, 103.5 Hit, 25 Avo

w Steel Lance: 18.3 Atk, 4.5 AS, 93.5 Hit, 15.5 Avo

w Javelin: 14.3 Atk, 6.5 AS, 83.5 Hit, 19.5 Avo

w Short Spear: 17.3 Atk, 5.5 AS, 93.5 Hit, 17.5 Avo

At 1-range, Boyd has solid offense with the Iron Axe. Oscar has slightly more AS with the Iron Lance, but loses Atk by almost 3. However, Oscar is likely to be able to double the (still prevelant) 0 AS enemies with the Steel Lance. With it, he can at least match Iron Axe Boyd's Atk and Hit. Boyd is unlikely to be able to double anything with the heavy Steel Axe (or heavier Hammer). Oscar dominates Boyd in 1-2 range combat thanks to the Short Spear. Oscar also leads in durability. This is, at best, a tie for Boyd.

Early-Mid Game: Chapters 8-13

Starting in chapter 8, we have access to the base. This allows us opportunity to forge weapons for Oscar and Boyd and to give them Bexp. Starting here, we can give them enough Bexp to ORKO any unit. So the relevant question becomes: who needs more resources to ORKO. Boyd has a fantastic Str growth, so it doesn't take much for him to be able to 2HKO most units. Boyd's impediment to ORKOing is his Spd. Oscar, meanwhile needs a little Spd and a little more Str to ORKO.

Consider C8's enemies if you will. Here's one of the tougher enemies:

1x Axe Knight lv 7 (iron axe)

24 hp, 16 atk, 6 AS, 84 hit, 13 avo, 9 def, 2 res, 2 crit, 1 cev

Boyd needs 21 Atk to 2HKO. He can easily get this with an Iron Axe forge and only needs to be ~level 12 to pull off the 2HKO with the Iron Axe. Boyd needs to be ~level 11 to double this enemy with an Iron Axe.

Oscar needs 22 Atk to 2HKO. Even with an Iron Lance forge, Oscar needs to be ~level 12 to 2HKO. But Oscar can double this enemy at ~level 10.

The tale is similar throughout early-mid game. Oscar needs a little more resources to 2HKO while Boyd needs and little more resources to double. Boyd has an advantage against armored Knights, which he has a much easier time 2HKOing. Oscar, meanwhile, grows his durability lead over Boyd. Oscar's Def and Res growths are superior, but he gets even more benefit from his swift support with Ike - a support that provides +10 Avo starting in C8, +20 Avo in C11, and +30 Avo in C14 and beyond.

Mid Game: Chapters 14-17

There is an important development for Oscar starting in C14: the Knight Ward. This item, which Boyd cannot equip, grants +2 Def and +2 Res, and increases Oscar's Spd growth by 30%. This means that Oscar can costlessly receive +30% Spd growth to all Bexp level-ups. Oscar also has the option to equip the Knight Ward in chapters for additional durability or Spd growth, as needed. This item boosts Oscar's Spd advantage over Boyd.

Steel forges also become available starting in C14. This reduces the importance of Boyd's Atk lead, because Oscar can easily 2HKO with a Steel forge. It's also worth mentioning that, like the Short Spear before it, the Spear becomes available before its Axe counterpart: the Tomahawk.

It is during this portion of the game that Oscar and Boyd are most likely to promote, so it's worthwhile to see how promotion treats them:

Boyd - level 20/3 - 47.5 HP, 16 Spd, 12 Def, 7 Res

w Steel Axe forge: 36 Atk

w Iron Axe forge: 33 Atk

w Short Axe: 31 Atk

Oscar - level 20/4 (3 Knight Ward level-ups) - 40 HP, 18.9 Spd, 17 Def, 9 Res

w Steel Axe forge: 33 Atk

w Iron Axe forge: 30 Atk

w Spear: 29 Atk

So, while Boyd has a mostly superfluous Atk lead (enhanced by his supports), Oscar has a sizable Spd lead and far superior durability (enhanced by his supports). Oscar also has a superior Mastery Skill, which makes him generally unkillable even without his supports. Colossus is a terribly underwhelming skill, because it fails to activate on the only enemies (Tigers and Dragons) that Boyd might struggle to 2HKO.

Mid-Late Game: Chapters 18-23

Little changes as Boyd and Oscar enter the mid-late game. The advent of forgeable Hand Axes helps both Boyd and Oscar. Hand Axe forges help Oscar secure 1-2 range 2HKOs on most beorc. Boyd can occasionally use Hand Axe forges to do really impressive things like 2HKO Wyvern Riders or even armored Knights. Interestingly, a Silver Lance can be forged one chapter in advance of Silver Axes, so Oscar has one potential chapter where he closes the Atk gap.

Late Game: Chapters 24-Endgame

Oscar is unlikely to be able wield Silver Axes, so Boyd develops his Atk advantage even further with a Silver Axe forge. Boyd's collosal Atk is mostly for show; there are only a handful of Generals and Tigers that Oscar fails to 2HKO with a Silver Lance forge, and he has Hammer and Laguz Lance options. Arguably, Oscar gets more benefit from Silver forges. Oscar's Spd lead becomes more and more important. In C28, for instance, Boyd needs to have 21 AS (~20/14) to double even half the enemies and 25 AS (not happening) to double them all. Oscar, with the help of the Knight Ward, has little difficulty hitting his maximum of 27 Spd.

So, even if Oscar lost his huge mounted advantages, he might still be more valuable than Boyd.

[Chiki]

. It doesn't help in Ch 1, 2, 5, 7, 8, 11 (well beginning definitely not), 12, 13 (ok beginning granted + saving Astrid, but Boyd becomes possible to play with on Turn 2/3 and which he's better than Kieran for the most part), 15, 17, 19, 20, 22, 24 (only at the beginning, because enemies block the way, Boyd can start contributing Turn 2), 25 (because enemies constantly block the way), 26 (deceiving but Boyd can start contributing immediately and is prob the best person to keep those top units at bay), 28, F.

1: Yes it does. It makes a reliable 2 turn possible.

2: Granted.

5: Move doesn't matter here, but Oscar does better here by a long shot due to his fantastic durability.

7: What are you talking about? Oscar is necessary for a 4 or reliable 5-turn

8: Oscar is again better here because of his far better durability. Oscar is better in all defense chapters.

11: ...................no comment. Yes it does.

12: Okay.

13: Enemies only take 3 or 4 turns to rout anyway. Oscar / Kieran is doing the vast majority of the work here.

15: Boyd is crap on this chapter as well. You're only likely to use mages / fliers here.

17-1: Yes, for a 2-turn.

17-2: Yes, Oscar and Kieran are absolutely essential for a 2-turn here. If you don't want a 2-turn, then even Boyd doesn't matter.

17-3: Okay.

17-4: Uh, yes, of course it matters to reach Oliver.

19: Yes it does................. to reach the boss.

20: Yes it does........ to reach the arrive square or Rescue village.

22: Boyd isn't doing anything much here either.

24: Um, move is the most important possible variable in this chapter... to reach the arrive tile.

25: Boyd has a huge advantage here. I agree. But you forget that it isn't because of enemies, but the map itself that prevents horse units from being useful.

26: Yes it does.... to reach the boss. Move is EXTREMELY important here.

28: Yes it does.... Move is extremely important here too.

E: Okay, granted.

You have no idea how to play efficiency it seems. Here are some strategies for you:

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34212

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=29894

[-Cynthia-]

I can go with Calill > the other Mages, but Tormod still needs a lot of bexp and babying to catch up. Ilyana and Soren are going to be several levels ahead of Tormod when he shows up.

Adept is a really bad way to improve hit rate; I'd even say it's a negative rather than a positive. With only around 15 uses of siege tomes per game, even one siege tome use is gamechanging. For example, if you had to use Adept with 2 uses of Meteor / Bolting / Blizzard left, the tome would simply break.

If we consider the primary uses of sages being siege tomers, Calill>Soren=Ilyana>Tormod would probably make the most sense (although Tormod's Mov might let him hit Ena a turn earlier or something). Sages also have other uses though such as healing (debatably useful), helping to clear C15/other earlygame chapter chip for Soren and Ilyana, and regular combat (which Tormod is probably the best as due to Celerity, although the most expensive). Ranking the sages seems to come down to- what do we use sages for on most playthroughs?

Edited September 15, 2012 by -Cynthia-

[Chiki]

If we consider the primary uses of sages being siege tomers, Calill>Soren=Ilyana>Tormod would probably make the most sense (although Tormod's Mov might let him hit Ena a turn earlier or something). Sages also have other uses though such as healing (debatably useful), helping to clear C15/other earlygame chapter chip for Soren and Ilyana, and regular combat (which Tormod is probably the best as due to Celerity, although the most expensive). Ranking the sages seems to come down to- what do we use sages for on most playthroughs?

Nah, move is useless for Ena due to the map structure. A flier has to drop a Sage where they can kill Ena. If you wanna kill Ena you only need 2-3 move.

I personally think healing is useless unless you have Physic, but that might be just me so w/e.

I think the most efficient way to use a Sage by far is siege tomes--why use them like you would use Boyd?

[Hawk King]

In my LTC playthrough where I fed Boyd as many kills and Bexp as possible to promote him in Chp 9 for the 6 turn clear, He also allowed me to get both the Chp 10 and 11 master seals. I would say that his contributions in Chps 9-11 were greater than Oscar and Kieran, but for the rest of the game Oscar and Kieran will be better than even an early promoted Boyd. The contributions that Boyd made could also be replicated by Mia, and Soren so its not like they are even unique to Boyd.

Oscar and Kieran >>> Boyd

On a related note. Mia > Zihark.

They are very similar units stat-wise and do pretty much the same for their shared existance, however Mia can be used in Chps 9-11 in the same way Boyd can. She can allow for a 6 turn of Chp 9 that recruits Marcia. With a crit she can kill Danomill in chp 10 getting us the master seal in a 3 turn clear, And she can kill Makoya in Chp 11 for his master seal in a 3 turn clear.

Conclution: Mia's potential contributions before Zihark's recruitment make Mia > Zihark.

[Ncknck]

So by your logic, because Soren had less move, he was more likely to end up in front of the group and exposed than Tormod, because Tormod had more move?

Soren move area 85 tiles

Tormod move area 145 tiles

Soren controls 145 tiles

Tormod controls 221 tiles

Tormod can move to over 70% more tiles than Soren, and can attack 50% more area. Such effects over seemingly minor changes are to explain due to the move being added to the radius, which then gets multiplied by all kinds of stuff, namely area= pi*radius^2. Thats f*cking hax.

[dondon151]

which then gets multiplied by all kinds of stuff, namely area= pi*radius^2.

this game uses square tiles to determine position

Edited September 15, 2012 by dondon151

[Snowy_One]

Soren move area 85 tiles

Tormod move area 145 tiles

Soren controls 145 tiles

Tormod controls 221 tiles

Tormod can move to over 70% more tiles than Soren, and can attack 50% more area. Such effects over seemingly minor changes are to explain due to the move being added to the radius, which then gets multiplied by all kinds of stuff, namely area= pi*radius^2. Thats f*cking hax.

That doesn't answer my question. Besides...

What does Tormod actually manage to hit with those extra tiles that is of value? If he can't hit anything of value, the extra move is worthless.

[Ncknck]

@Snowy_One

What question. Whether of not Tormod can hit anything of value? Why shouldnt he, he has the possibilities, as demonstrated.

@dondon151

A square is a crude representation of a circle, approximate accordingly. Besides its irrelevant in this case, the relation is the same. You can calculate the area over triangles here, it just looks a bit more complicated.

Edited September 15, 2012 by ncknck

[Ema Skye]

That doesn't answer my question. Besides...

What does Tormod actually manage to hit with those extra tiles that is of value? If he can't hit anything of value, the extra move is worthless.

Tormod has 7 move.

Soren has 5 move.

Enemy is 14 squares away.

Tormod attacks reaches the enemy before Soren does, even though Tormod didn't hit anything on the first turn.

[Chiki]

^ Snowy is actually right for once. There are no situations like that ingame.

[Ncknck]

Just for the fun of it, here is a corresponding equation for this game. ( general formula is beyond my math skills, and i doubt its short, by the looks of it it looks like a sum series of some sorts.)

Area=2*(move^2+move)+1

[Ncknck]

^ Snowy is actually right for once. There are no situations like that ingame.

move is useless

You cant be serious

[dondon151]

But we are talking about actual situations in-game, not hypothetical ones where Tormod's movement advantage matters.

Now, if our spectrum of acceptable strategies on this tier list is so narrow that these situations don't exist, then I disagree. It's hard to imagine that they don't exist given the length of the game and the number of enemies that are in it.

[Chiki]

But we are talking about actual situations in-game, not hypothetical ones where Tormod's movement advantage matters.

Now, if our spectrum of acceptable strategies on this tier list is so narrow that these situations don't exist, then I disagree. It's hard to imagine that they don't exist given the length of the game and the number of enemies that are in it.

Why would those situations exist if Tormod's Celerity doesn't cut any turns even from the most strict possible LTC requirements?

There are a few situations where Celerity is an advantage, like in 25 and 27. But it's perfectly possible to do them with Soren / Ilyana without compromising your turn count. It's not unique to Tormod to be able to 3-turn 25 or 3-turn 27.

Do we need to waste the Rescue staff to low turn those chapters? No. Are Smites / Shoves so limited that Tormod's Celerity becomes useful? Not at all.

Tormod's Celerity is useful but not necessary in the least. Soren and Ilyana are definitely better than him due to not requiring as many resources and babying as Tormod does.

[dondon151]

Why would those situations exist if Tormod's Celerity doesn't cut any turns even from the most strict possible LTC requirements?

Here's your problem. A tier list is not the same as a list of units that you use to clear the game in 114 turns.

[Snowy_One]

With how you guys handle the game, you could have fooled me.

[Chiki]

Here's your problem. A tier list is not the same as a list of units that you use to clear the game in 114 turns.

It doesn't change the fact that Tormod doesn't contribute anything unique to the table.

[Lord Raven]

that's an extremely unconstructive comment

With how you guys handle the game, you could have fooled me.

No Snowy you are confusing "nobody agrees with you" with "we aim for 114 turns EVERY TIME"

[Ema Skye]

8 move siege bomber that doesn't cost me a pair of boots isn't unique? o.o