What anime/manga are you following right now?

[Defeatist Elitist]

An opinion generally agreed upon as fact, much like a scientific theory.

No, it's absolutely nothing like a scientific theory and please don't even try to compare them.

Additional problems that people can have besides filler are things like deviating from the original story and having an anime original ending/story (Death Note, Rosario Vampire, Yumekui Merry, Full Metal Alchemist), less "graphic" scenes (Naruto, One Piece, Berserk), and missing or skipping certain scenes (Nurarihyon No Mago, One Piece).

Having different/added/removed content doesn't make an adaptation worse than the original, it just makes it different. Sometimes it does make it worse, but it's not some sort of inherent quantity.

I really don't see how that is a bad comparison considering that it is a general opinion in many different mediums the original is almost always better than the adaptation (an agreement based upon a majority consensus of the community) and I can use facts to back up my arguments. To be honest, I think you are the only person I've ever seen argue against the idea of manga > anime adaptation of manga as a whole. I've seen people say Original FMA > FMA:BH and things like that, but such only pertains to one series.

It's a terrible comparison because a) the validity or factuality of a scientific theory is not at all based on general public opinion, b) general consensus does absolutely nothing to make you right anyway, and c) I actually have not seen THAT many people who would argue that the vast majority of anime are flat out inferior to their manga originals.

Depending on the situation, possibly. For example, red is a better color than blue when it comes to stirring an appetite in someone as it has been shown that the color red is linked to hunger.

Red is a superior color in a very very specific context, serving a specific purpose. However that wasn't the question.

But it usually does, which is the reason why there is such a large amount of people who share my opinion.

Perhaps my perspective is fucked because I don't like most things, but I don't know if it's really that distinct.

[Florete]

I really don't see how that is a bad comparison considering that it is a general opinion in many different mediums the original is almost always better than the adaptation (an agreement based upon a majority consensus of the community) and I can use facts to back up my arguments. To be honest, I think you are the only person I've ever seen argue against the idea of manga > anime adaptation of manga as a whole. I've seen people say Original FMA > FMA:BH and things like that, but such only pertains to one series.

First to note: I am only talking within the scope of anime and manga because that is where the majority of my knowledge lies and that is how this discussion was started. And, well, I have seen plenty of people be annoyed at manga always > anime elitists, but I'm also pretty active in the anime fandom.

Depending on the situation, possibly. For example, red is a better color than blue when it comes to stirring an appetite in someone as it has been shown that the color red is linked to hunger.

I said "favorite" for a reason. There's no way red is an objectively better color than blue overall.

But it usually does, which is the reason why there is such a large amount of people who share my opinion.

See, you're in that mindset yourself. Chances are most people who experience the anime first will prefer that even if they read the manga.

I think Gintama and DBZ are the only series I have ever seen get praised for having good filler. Fairy Tail on the other hand, well... I never really hear much about it so I can't say. I remember dropping Beelzebub at episode Four because it decided to have filler there for no reason at all (in addition to some other scenes being adapted poorly).

I watch Fairy Tail myself and as far as others go, I've only heard complaints about the one filler arc that was ~10 episodes. It wasn't awful but I agree it wasn't good.

Wouldn't that also hold true for adapted parts of manga, along with anime original series?

Adapted parts of manga are already in the manga, so the anime hasn't become worse, just the same. Anime original series have no source material and aren't even a part of this conversation.

It was for the most part, but the ending was pretty different as explained in the below spoiler

IIRC, the anime has Light run away from the police during the final scene after he had been shot until finally finding a place to lie down in and rest at to await is oncoming death. Elsewhere, in a happy mood, Ryuk thinks to himself how he had fun following Light, but now it's time for the fun to end, and then kills light, with light dying pretty peacefully in a more "god like manner" in terms of how his body is positioned.

In the manga, after being shot up, Light crawls on the ground begging Ryuk to kill everyone to which Ryuk responds he will kill one person, and then cruelly says he will kill light. All the police shoot at Ryuk to try and stop him from killing Light, but that doesn't work, and light dies in front of everyone on the ground crying about how he doesn't want to die, showing the face of a dying criminal as compared to the more noble death the anime gives him. Ryuk also tells light about what happens after you die. The manga also has a added one shot chapter about Near that takes place after the series is over, and was about some other person being given the death note but an entirely different shinigami, and I think the epilogue to the series was never adapted, but that was just a one chapter thing.

And to go on a previous point, I'd say the anime ending was better. Is this because I experienced the anime first? Quite possibly, but that's the idea.

I'm going to assume that this only refers to two of the three points I made, because not adapting certain scenes into an anime is always a bad thing for adaptations to do.

Except for the bad ones, right? Like the last half of Usagi Drop?

Furthermore, I'll add that just about any action anime adapted faithfully should be better than the manga by simple virtue of action being, well, action. It's really supposed to be in motion and not with still frames. Any scene like that should work better when animated.

[Blademaster!]

No, it's absolutely nothing like a scientific theory and please don't even try to compare them.

Based on arguments I've had with you in the past, you don't know what scientific theory is, and this statement only further adds onto that:

It's a terrible comparison because a) the validity or factuality of a scientific theory is not at all based on general public opinion, b) general consensus does absolutely nothing to make you right anyway

A) Public opinion does place an important role on scientific theory, as a theory must become accepted by the scientific community for it to really have any backing too it.

B) Yes it does. I imagine you have heard of the "Tyranny of the majority" before right? The best example of something like this would be why we don't allow other people to just kill each other; since the general consensus about the subject is that murder is wrong.

Maybe now you'll actually look up what a scientific theory is so that the next time I talk with you about one, you won't respond with "that's just a theory"

Having different/added/removed content doesn't make an adaptation worse than the original, it just makes it different. Sometimes it does make it worse, but it's not some sort of inherent quantity.

It makes it worse as an adaptation, which is what upsets fans. And it's very rare for deviated material to be good.

Red is a superior color in a very very specific context, serving a specific purpose. However that wasn't the question.

Which is why I mentioned that such was only the case under such specific situations.

Perhaps my perspective is fucked because I don't like most things, but I don't know if it's really that distinct.

I'm honestly really surprised that I am seeing people who don't believe that the manga > anime adaptation as a general statement, since that sort of comparison holds true for so many different things, like movies based on books.

First to note: I am only talking within the scope of anime and manga because that is where the majority of my knowledge lies and that is how this discussion was started. And, well, I have seen plenty of people be annoyed at manga always > anime elitists, but I'm also pretty active in the anime fandom.

I would imagine that I'm not as active as you are since I generally try to avoid the majority of anime communities after some fujoshi almost ruined Nurarihyon No Mago for me, but on any of the sites I've ever visited I've really just never seen a contrary opinion like this before. Most people share my opinion on this subject. Also, I don't mean to take this conversation outside the scope of anime and manga, as I also lack knowledge in those certain areas, but I've seen this same kind of idea held true there before too.

See, you're in that mindset yourself. Chances are most people who experience the anime first will prefer that even if they read the manga.

In my case, I can't think of any series where I've seen the anime first and then enjoyed it more than the manga. In the case of a manga adaptation of something vs the anime adaptation of that same thing, I've liked the anime more, but not when compared to the manga. Maybe DB, but there were parts of the manga that I liked more when compared to the anime, and vice verca.

I watch Fairy Tail myself and as far as others go, I've only heard complaints about the one filler arc that was ~10 episodes. It wasn't awful but I agree it wasn't good.

Speaking of Fairy Tail, I actually saw someone complaining about the anime episode you linked me too earlier. He said that the anime adaptation ruined one of Natsu's few emotional scenes in the series.

Adapted parts of manga are already in the manga, so the anime hasn't become worse, just the same. Anime original series have no source material and aren't even a part of this conversation.

I feel like what I was trying to say was lost somewhere, and I can't remember what it was. It had to do with just being unable to skip boring parts of things that weren't filler.

And to go on a previous point, I'd say the anime ending was better. Is this because I experienced the anime first? Quite possibly, but that's the idea.

And I would say the anime ending was worse, not because I read the manga first, but because they portrayed light's death as the death of some kind of god, despite the fact that he was not a god, but a criminal, which is why he even dies. If he was really a god like he was made out to be, then he would have remained as the "hero" of the series and never died.

Except for the bad ones, right? Like the last half of Usagi Drop?

I don't think it was the last half exactly, but yeah that...

Furthermore, I'll add that just about any action anime adapted faithfully should be better than the manga by simple virtue of action being, well, action. It's really supposed to be in motion and not with still frames. Any scene like that should work better when animated.

This is where the problem of removing graphic content can come into play. Also, I think most action anime just animate the panels based on the manga, so things that you already essentially saw in the manga are just easier to see now, but was already there before anyway. And not to really speak about things as a whole, but things like this happen in action anime at times:

Certain scenes can also lose a lot of detail when compared to the manga like in Fist Of The North Star.

[Defeatist Elitist]

Based on arguments I've had with you in the past, you don't know what scientific theory is, and this statement only further adds onto that:

Sit the fuck down. I understand very well what a scientific theory is. It is a collection of scientific laws, concepts and evidence used to explain phenomena. Scientific theories include the theory of evolution, the theory of relativity, and the theory of gravitation.

A) Public opinion does place an important role on scientific theory, as a theory must become accepted by the scientific community for it to really have any backing too it.

A) Public opinion is completely irrelevent, only the scientific community should really be regarded because they are experts in their field. Do you understand why this matters?, and B) Theoretically, even the scientific consensus has no bearing on a theories actual accuracy or factuality, but we generally use scientific consensus because it's the closest we can come to knowing.

B) Yes it does. I imagine you have heard of the "Tyranny of the majority" before right? The best example of something like this would be why we don't allow other people to just kill each other; since the general consensus about the subject is that murder is wrong.

No, it doesn't. I have indeed heard of the tyranny of the majority, but the tyranny of the majority doesn't make something right or wrong, it just generally dictates what is acceptable and unacceptable. The general consensus on murder may well be that it is wrong, that's fine, but considering morality is completely subjective, that's sort of irrelevent. The general consensus has also been, at various points in the past, that slavery was acceptable, that women should be their husbands' belongings, and that homosexuals should be killed. The majority can't be right or wrong on this because it's completely subjective. Now, on the other hand, if you want to talk about facts, there was a time when the majority of people believed tomatoes were poisonous, but that had absolutely no bearing on the fact that tomotoes are not poisonous.

Maybe now you'll actually look up what a scientific theory is so that the next time I talk with you about one, you won't respond with "that's just a theory"

I have literally never in my life said "that's just a theory" about any legitimate scientific theory, and I can assure you that pretty much anyone who knows me even a little would know that.

Which is why I mentioned that such was only the case under such specific situations.

Wait, so you knowingly gave an answer that had absolutely no relevence to the question?

I'm honestly really surprised that I am seeing people who don't believe that the manga > anime adaptation as a general statement, since that sort of comparison holds true for so many different things, like movies based on books.

I actually dislike a number of adaptions, and I'm pretty much ambivalent on your general point, though I don't think it really matters, I just find your arguments to be retarded.

Actually, I just realized, the only argument I have had with you involving scientific theories is the one in which you tried to argue that black people are stupider than white people.

Edited October 2, 2011 by Defeatist Elitist

[Maou]

Actually, I just realized, the only argument I have had with you involving scientific theories is the one in which you tried to argue that black people are stupider than white people.

lolwut?

[ReformBlade]

Those are the facts of life though. The original version is almost always better than the adaption.

I wish you would choke on the fires that stoke your blatant ignorance.

[Florete]

Speaking of Fairy Tail, I actually saw someone complaining about the anime episode you linked me too earlier. He said that the anime adaptation ruined one of Natsu's few emotional scenes in the series.

Of course there will still be manga > anime elitists no matter what. They Changed it Now it Sucks, after all. But the other side exists, too.

And honestly, I haven't read the manga, but I cannot see how that scene would have been ruined. Worse? I guess it's possible, but as far as I could tell, that was pretty damn emotional and done really well, and I imagine the voice acting and animation would make it better for most. So that really sounds more like an adaptation hater.

I feel like what I was trying to say was lost somewhere, and I can't remember what it was. It had to do with just being unable to skip boring parts of things that weren't filler.

I don't think anything was lost. Sounds like it's all there to me.

And I would say the anime ending was worse, not because I read the manga first, but because they portrayed light's death as the death of some kind of god, despite the fact that he was not a god, but a criminal, which is why he even dies. If he was really a god like he was made out to be, then he would have remained as the "hero" of the series and never died.

I disagree. I don't think Light died like a god at all. I saw it more as a reflection on what he's done over the years and how in the end he was anything but the god he intended to be. If anything, I found his death kind of pathetic, but that's also why I really liked it because I felt it fit the story and his character very well. He acted big but he was always kind of a kid, even in the end.

I don't think it was the last half exactly, but yeah that...

I think it was actually more than half.

This is where the problem of removing graphic content can come into play. Also, I think most action anime just animate the panels based on the manga, so things that you already essentially saw in the manga are just easier to see now, but was already there before anyway. And not to really speak about things as a whole, but things like this happen in action anime at times:

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/2420/whatwegot.png

Then it really just depends on the animation. A well-animated action scene should be flat out better than the manga version. Most series that aren't long-running can do this, and longer usually do it for bigger fights.

As for that...image, I don't watch Naruto anymore but I only recall that being one episode.

[shadowofchaos]

Those are the facts of life though. The original version is almost always better than the adaption.

Thank you Mr. Authority. We'll be sure always listen to your conclusions fully based on your personal experience when it comes to OUR decisions.

*cough* カードキャプターさくら *cough*

This is no "fact," this is opinion. From my experience, at least in this area, anime adaptations of manga are usually about the same for the parts adapted faithfully (which means excluding filler, etc.). All it comes down to is whether you prefer anime or manga.

THANK YOU. It's freaking opinion.

I wish you would choke on the fires that stoke your blatant ignorance.

Seriously.

Blademaster, you generalize a lot of things. A LOT.

Edited October 2, 2011 by shadowofchaos

[Blademaster!]

Sit the fuck down. I understand very well what a scientific theory is. It is a collection of scientific laws, concepts and evidence used to explain phenomena. Scientific theories include the theory of evolution, the theory of relativity, and the theory of gravitation.

Good to see you have learned what one is since I last argued with you.

A) Public opinion is completely irrelevent, only the scientific community should really be regarded because they are experts in their field. Do you understand why this matters?

And in the case of anime, we have "experts on anime and manga" much like how there are "experts" in film, writing, etc. That said, I am not one of them, and neither is likely anyone in this argument.

B) Theoretically, even the scientific consensus has no bearing on a theories actual accuracy or factuality, but we generally use scientific consensus because it's the closest we can come to knowing.

Exactly my point.

I have literally never in my life said "that's just a theory" about any legitimate scientific theory, and I can assure you that pretty much anyone who knows me even a little would know that.

I provided you with one, and you did. I guess just because something is potentially racist/controversial it automatically isn't legitimate right?

Wait, so you knowingly gave an answer that had absolutely no relevence to the question?

You mean the discussion at hand about anime and manga? Then yes.

Actually, I just realized, the only argument I have had with you involving scientific theories is the one in which you tried to argue that black people are stupider than white people.

That wasn't what the argument was about. The argument was about whether or not there was actually any evidence with which to prove that black people are less intelligent than white people. I provided you with such evidence, including actual theories on human evolution as to why such may be the case, showing that such research does in fact exist, and you dismissed every single thing I provided you with, since you just wanted to strawman our argument. It's also funny how you still think that our previous argument was me arguing that blacks are less intelligent than whites even now after how I had to remind you in nearly every post of that argument that such was not the topic at hand.

Of course there will still be manga > anime elitists no matter what. They Changed it Now it Sucks, after all. But the other side exists, too.

I mostly brought that up out of irony.

And honestly, I haven't read the manga, but I cannot see how that scene would have been ruined. Worse? I guess it's possible, but as far as I could tell, that was pretty damn emotional and done really well, and I imagine the voice acting and animation would make it better for most. So that really sounds more like an adaptation hater.

From what I have seen, people who dislike the Fairy Tail anime don't like Natsu's voice actor (I didn't like his voice actor much either, but he might have gotten better by now or something), so that would probably be why.

I disagree. I don't think Light died like a god at all. I saw it more as a reflection on what he's done over the years and how in the end he was anything but the god he intended to be. If anything, I found his death kind of pathetic, but that's also why I really liked it because I felt it fit the story and his character very well. He acted big but he was always kind of a kid, even in the end.

I found that the way they had light shining on him as he died in a peaceful/prophetic manner was meant to portray his death as the death of a god. I found his death in the anime no where near as pathetic as it was in the manga.

I think it was actually more than half.

I only heard that it occurred during some time skip at near the end of the manga, but I guess neither of us have read it so...

Then it really just depends on the animation. A well-animated action scene should be flat out better than the manga version. Most series that aren't long-running can do this, and longer usually do it for bigger fights.

In that aspect, it should, but how often it happens I wouldn't know. Most action anime I've seen literally do just what I said: animate panels that already have such actions occurring, except with a less detailed quality.

As for that...image, I don't watch Naruto anymore but I only recall that being one episode.

It was only for one episode, but it occurred during one of the most important moments in the series. But giving how much the Naruto anime staff seems to love Hinata, they had to spend all there budget on the previous episode adding in scenes about Hinata that didn't really need to be there/make sense (granted, this scene was also one of the major highlights of the series).

Thank you Mr. Authority. We'll be sure always listen to your conclusions fully based on your personal experience when it comes to OUR decisions.

I've done my best to try and avoid using personal opinion. As I have said, in the 7-8 years of watching anime and manga, let alone discussing adaptations of almost any medium, I have never seen people who have held an opinion where they don't believe that, the majority of the time, the original is better than the adaptation. At least I'm not saying that the manga is always better than the anime or that just because the manga is better doesn't mean that the anime is automatically bad.

Blademaster, you generalize a lot of things. A LOT.

Because we could really set up this argument without generalizing right? Last I checked, the only thing I generalized was the fact that most JRPG's use anime like art-styles, to which one could actually say that any JRPG created in Japan uses anime like art styles, based on a literal definition of anime (animation that comes from Japan).

[Balcerzak]

It was only for one episode, but it occurred during one of the most important moments in the series. But giving how much the Naruto anime staff seems to love Hinata, they had to spend all there budget on the previous episode adding in scenes about Hinata that didn't really need to be there/make sense (granted, this scene was also one of the major highlights of the series).

That was also an inbetween frame that lasted mere fractions of seconds, and you had to pause to see the sort of distortion being displayed there. Still frames simply cannot match up to moving pictures, period.

[Defeatist Elitist]

Good to see you have learned what one is since I last argued with you.

Holy fuck I actually cannot believe you. Do you really think the vague collection of links you sent me that all outright dismissed the possibility that race and intelligence were genetically linked constituted a scientific theory supporting your side of the argument?

And in the case of anime, we have "experts on anime and manga" much like how there are "experts" in film, writing, etc. That said, I am not one of them, and neither is likely anyone in this argument.

Indeed.

Exactly my point.

Really?

I provided you with one, and you did. I guess just because something is potentially racist/controversial it automatically isn't legitimate right?

No, the reason it wasn't legitimate was because it was fucking retarded and completely unsupported by evidence. Almost all the support you gave to your argument was other people disproving your argument, and I find it absurd that you even considered it support. My argument wasn't "that's just a theory", my argument was "that's completely scientifically unsound"

That wasn't what the argument was about.

Yeah, it kind of was.

The argument was about whether or not there was actually any evidence with which to prove that black people are less intelligent than white people.

Ah yes, just like if you say the Holocaust happened and I say "There's no evidence to suggest the Holocaust happened" I'm not denying the Holocaust at all. Or if I claim there is evidence for God's existence, that is not in any way an argument for the existence of God.

Seriously wtf are you doing?

I provided you with such evidence,

If by evidence you mean some articles in which nothing to support your case was presented, then yes.

including actual theories on human evolution as to why such may be the case,

All of which seemed to conclude that black people being genetically less intelligent than white people was highly unlikely and completely unsupported.

showing that such research does in fact exist,

In your imagination.

and you dismissed every single thing I provided you with,

No, actually, I read and agreed with most of them, though conveniently, they did not agree with you.

since you just wanted to strawman our argument.

Why are you so bad? Seriously.

It's also funny

If by funny you mean completely reasonable then I agree.

how you still think that our previous argument was me arguing that blacks are less intelligent than whites

Which it kind of was.

even now after how I had to remind you in nearly every post of that argument that such was not the topic at hand.

By conveniently stating that it pretty much was.

[Ein]

So yeah... I saw the first episode of Shinryaku!? Ikamusume last week and am looking forward to tomorrows episode.

The first season didn't much fanservice as I far I recall. I'm pretty sure there was since it takes place at the beach and junk but the second season's OP made me say "What the fuck was that?!" since I was watching it with my little brother and I generally avoid stuff with too much fanservice if it;s something my brother and I want to watch to together.

Is it odd that I can't giggling when Goro, the lifeguard not the four armed dragon dude from Mortal Kombat, talks? Since the voice actor who voices Hazama of BlazBlue uses the sameish voice for him which is hilarious to me.

[Jotaro Kujo]

Why would you put yourself through such torture? I would have to guess you've never read the manga, as such is the only logical reason as to why anyone would want to watch the second season of Bakuman. It's a shame that the manga has become so awful as of late though...

Why am I not surprised? As a side note, from what I have seen of the anime, they added in an extra female character because there are only three (technically four) female characters in the manga (who barely ever show up) right?

Sorry for replying so late.

They did add Tina, but I have no idea why. Just like everyone else, I think it's because there's only three females (Rin, Melk, and Setsuno, unless I'm forgetting someone or you're counting Terrycloth, which would mean that there's technically 5 since Sani recently got a pet snake named Quinn that's a girl) that show up.

[Blademaster!]

So yeah... I saw the first episode of Shinryaku!? Ikamusume

I've heard that series is essentially the closest thing anime/manga fans will ever get to seeing an animated version of Yotsuba. Would you say that is true?

They did add Tina, but I have no idea why. Just like everyone else, I think it's because there's only three females (Rin, Melk, and Setsuno, unless I'm forgetting someone or you're counting Terrycloth, which would mean that there's technically 5 since Sani recently got a pet snake named Quinn that's a girl) that show up.

Yeah, I counted Terry, and I forget about Sani's snake.

[Ein]

I've heard that series is essentially the closest thing anime/manga fans will ever get to seeing an animated version of Yotsuba. Would you say that is true?

I guess you can say that. I don't really see it other than both being slice of life stuff.

[Jotaro Kujo]

I've heard that series is essentially the closest thing anime/manga fans will ever get to seeing an animated version of Yotsuba. Would you say that is true?

Yeah, I counted Terry, and I forget about Sani's snake.

Come to think of it, we don't know the gender of Komatsu's baby Wall Penguin I don't think. It might be a girl for all we know. XP

[Balcerzak]

In case any of you were watching Blood-C... I just replaced the audio of the climactic episode 12 chase scene with Yakety Sax and the results were amazing. Youtube flagged it with a copyright violation as soon as I tried to upload it though.

[Higurashi_K1]

Currently on the "Shion" arc of Higurashi. Might move on to Shuffle! after I get done. Maybe Elfen Lied but I've heard many negative things about it.

[Rothene]

Just finished Blood C...In the end I actually feel really sorry for those...who did not make it out alive. 8[

[Ein]

The second episode of Ika Musume season two was awesome. Lack of Hazama the Life Guard was saddening though.

[Balcerzak]

Oh man. Mirai Nikki so good. Fate/Zero is super bonner. Post-skip One Piece is amazing.

Guilty Crown, Un-go, and Chihayafuru show promise, so far.

[Rapier]

I'm watching right now Rurouni Kenshin and Pandora Hearts, but they aren't like Umineko/Elfen Lied. I really miss those two. >:

[phokingbeast]

yu yu hakusho and baka to test

[Galenforcer]

Using Cardcaptor Sakura to kill some time.

I know this show is probably silly and girly as shit, but I'd probably give up on that too out of sheer boredom.

[Mirron]

Hmm... I don't know, for a magical girl anime, I don't remember too much that was over the top girly. I personally enjoyed it, was a nice way to pass the time. It may not be your kind of show though. Why are you watching it if you don't like magical girl anime though?

Currently on a Fate/Stay Night kick, recently watched the movie, likely to watch Fate/Zero in a bit. Shame it's not fully out yet though.