Celice Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Lesson: sometimes being the only one that's right does, in fact, make you wrong. Retaining form and espousing a truth (belief, ideal, virtue, have it) are two completely different examples though. Banzai's grand intent isn't to maintain a crest of arrangement and solidarity. It's to provide a point of view which he felt wasn't particularly prominent, touched upon, in his belief. At least I was under that impression when the thread began. See where it falls now. Edited March 8, 2012 by Celice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Banzai's grand intent isn't to maintain a crest of arrangement and solidarity. No, that's probably Banzai's sole reason for posting on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titamon Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Will there be a write up for the Shitty Green Archer Archetype and the Shitty Pink Armor Archetype? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Will there be a write up for the Shitty Green Archer Archetype and the Shitty Pink Armor Archetype? Right now I'm doing major archetypes, in which there is a representative for the archetype for almost every game in the series. I'll move on to minor archetypes like the Gordin later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Retaining form and espousing a truth (belief, ideal, virtue, have it) are two completely different examples though. Irrelevant. The result is the same. No, that's probably Banzai's sole reason for posting on this forum. ^Plus this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Irrelevant. The result is the same. But the purpose of a march is to produce synchronised movement. The purpose of this subdiscussion is to determine what characteristics Zealot shares with other characters. If Banzai was of the opinion that Zealot loves his wife, and everyone else wasn't, he would be right. Seconding the opinion with Zealot is an Astoria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 If Banzai was of the opinion that Zealot loves his wife, and everyone else wasn't, he would be right. No shit, Sherlock. The critical difference is that Banzai is making his judgment by conjuring characterizations out of thin air, which is exactly why he's wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albino Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I’m going to make my case against Volke being a Navarre. Let’s look at the criteria Banzai posted for being a Navarre: - Generally quiet and antisocial Volke's like this by default, though he's willing to talk if it involves money/he's contractually obligated to. But overall, he fits this. -A swordsman Volke is certainly not. -Renown killer Volke pretty much meets this. -A foil to the Ogma Volke never talks to Greil during the events of FE9, only before them, so I don’t see how he can be a foil to the Ogma in FE9. In FE10, the only meaningful interaction (in other words, excluding supports) he has with the Ogma (Ike) is during the 4-E1 base conversation. Volke seemingly gets embarrassed for being thanked by Ike, but this hardly seems like “the Navarre's lockdown of emotion” versus “the Ogma's sociability towards his comrades-in-arms.” If anything, the fact that Volke gets embarrassed shows that he’s feeling emotion. So I don’t see him matching the criteria. -Lena, and hidden honor As you mentioned Volke lacks a Lena, so he would fall into the “uncaring and apathetic to his crimes” Navarre. And while Volke lacks honor, he does seem to abide by some personal rules. He has a policy against taking two jobs at once (as stated in his Bastian support), he apparently offers discounts for killing targets he doesn’t like (as seen in his recruitment convo with Bastian), and also apparently gives money back on certain occasions even if he isn’t obligated to (In FE9, if you choose to hire Volke again at the end of Chapter 19, he says he’ll take his payment out of the fifty-thousand gold Ike just gave him, and in FE10, in the base conversation with him, having taken his payment, he gives the rest back to Ike). So I’m not really sure if Volke fits this or not. -Dark, troubled past I don’t think that an ambiguous past should be considered the same as a dark and troubled one, even in this context. -Disappears at the the end of the war Volke’s character ending from FE10: Man of Many Mysteries- Volke After finishing his contract, Volke went back to the shadows he knew so well. He was a man of mystery to the end. This seems more like he went back to doing his usual line of work rather than completely disappearing. So, in summary, I think that the only things that Volke and the Navarre archetype have in common is that they’re both silent, renown killers. That doesn’t seem like a close enough match to be considered a Navarre. Honestly, I could probably make a better argument for Rath being a Navarre than Volke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 I would argue that Volke does indeed serve as a foil to Greil. When Ike learns Greil hired Volke, he makes a comment along the lines of "My father would hire someone like you?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albino Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 The line that I believe you're thinking of is "My father hired you?" I don't see how that line shows that Volke is a foil to Greil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 The line that I believe you're thinking of is "My father hired you?" I don't see how that line shows that Volke is a foil to Greil. Well, one could interpret it as being "My father hired you?" Since there are few ways to show emphasis because of a lack of italics, it could easily go either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onmi Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 These games do have caps though, typically emphasis would be done that way. Or with a !? to show incredulity, given the way Ike oft acts when presented with new information, I take it he would be responding reserved and calm, taking in the information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Yeah, but it's entirely possible that it's a result of Ike being confused because he's never heard of Volke before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onmi Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 that as well, without voices, without varying fonts, it's hard to determine exactly what is being said, it really doesn't help that FE has this thing against expressive portraits. Int Syst is really kinda lazy with this shit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethereal Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 it really doesn't help that FE has this thing against expressive portraits. I, for one, am incredibly glad for this. Expressive portraits(like the ones you just posted) from most JRPGs have over the top expressions that leave a really childish and cartoon-like feel. On the topic of Volke: "My father hired you?" does not highlight Greil's love of his comrades. In any way. At all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onmi Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I would rather have over expressive than no expressive, otherwise we get Sigurd trying to express his shock over being betrayed by Alvis... with the same look as when he's complimenting his wife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 Well, if Ike were to be surprised that Greil would hire Volke... And Volke is known for refusing to hang out with the rest of the army... It's a stretch, of course, but once again there are very few archetypes that conform to everything that constitutes the archetype. That there is a relationship between Greil and Volke and that Ike finds that surprising (thus highlighting how different the two are), that is clearly a contrast between the Ogma and the Navarre. Greil unfortunately had to go die before Volke even appears but with that setback in mind it fits what it's supposed to do fairly well. The question now is whether Volke's lack of any need for redemption is enough to take him out of the category. In order to determine that, we need to actually look at Rutger and determine if he fits the archetype or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onmi Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) A Support Karel: ...Do you need something, Rutgar? Rutgar: I want to ask you something. Karel: Yes? Rutgar: I sense no hate in your sword... You just seem to blend with the air around you when you attack. Even the heaviest, strongest blades can't cut through air... Your sword would beat them all. I want to become stronger. If all paths of the sword lead to one place, then would I be able to blend with the air as you do? Karel: ...You're from Sacae, aren't you? Rutgar: ...Right. Karel: I was born in Sacae as well. I grew up under the protection of Father Sky and Mother Earth. They are all that are in my sword. Rutgar: I'm not a pure Sacaean... I wouldn't be able to sense them like you can... Karel: Was that true when you were young? Rutgar: !! Karel: You were able to hear the sky and the earth once. Although, now it seems that your hate is covering your ears. Rutgar: ...Do you think I'll be able to hear them again once this war ends? Karel: Of course you will. The breeze that runs through the plains... It never forgets those that it loves. Take that as you will Edited March 10, 2012 by Onmi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kon Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 When I played the game myself, Ike's "My father hired you? " line sounded more like Ike wondering why Geil would hire someone just for "intelligence" (as that was te reason he gave when he and Ike first met). I have no idea where you're getting this "Volke is a Navarre" thing from, because I honestly don't see it. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 When I played the game myself, Ike's "My father hired you? " line sounded more like Ike wondering why Geil would hire someone just for "intelligence" (as that was te reason he gave when he and Ike first met). I have no idea where you're getting this "Volke is a Navarre" thing from, because I honestly don't see it. :/ Agreed. Ike's "my father hired you?" didn't sound like he was judging Volke's character or anything. He just seemed to be wondering why Greil would need to hire Volke. After all, Greil left his past in ... well, the past. Ike doesn't know anything about Greil's past, nor does he remember his past. Ike just sounded like he was wondering why Greil would need to hire Volke, or what he would need Volke for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Well, one could interpret it as being "My father hired you?" Since there are few ways to show emphasis because of a lack of italics, it could easily go either way. That seems like an extremely snobby and insulting thing for someone like Ike to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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