Does incest have a place in Fire Emblem?

[Cornguy]

I think it could be done well, but I much more strongly believe it would be handled tastelessly.

Brief, slightly off-topic point about IS being tasteless. But, Elise and Sakura are your little sisters, blood-related or not, they're no older than 17, and even that is probably being generous. Now Awakening is no masterpiece of story-telling. But when I pair up my teenage characters and they gamble their lives on marriage without a second thought, they don't instantaneously fuck and literally give birth five minutes after saying "I love you."

I know this story is based in "olden times", but its a fantasy story. You've already picked and chosen what creepy parts to leave out of history, like the fact that no female characters would be fighting war with you without a disguise, why leave child-brides in the mix?

I guess that point wasn't brief, I apologize. In a weak attempt to make what I said relevant, we can see that IS in this day and age can't tastefully handle romance, and we'd be better off if they didn't try anything new and potentially sensitive and controversial.

I guess I'm still butt-hurt that Fates had three separate campaigns, and we still got weakly explained children characters in our army, when clearly we could've had a second-gen campaign for sake of eugenics lovers. But no, literal children getting pregnant and leaving their babies in the hyperbolic time chamber is cool too.

End rant, now I will return to devouring whatever IS gives me, because I have been addicted since fe7 and inexplicably can't seem to get attached to any other series.

[blah the Prussian]

Looking over this thread, it seems people are forgetting the gay bandit brothers. Granted, they are encountered in remote places, so they could also be seen as bohemian.

And also they won't pass their inbred genes down.

[Tryhard]

People here are unusually squeamish about incest.

modern humans have become psychologically and biologically averted to incest, so it's anything but "unusual". Edited June 6, 2016 by Tryhard

[Anacybele]

I'm just calling people out. How are mentions of incest worse than watching innocent people get slaughtered? I don't see it.

And killing innocent people isn't the point of Fire Emblem. Facing off against a capable enemy army is.

...Wow, do you even read posts? People are not saying anything about killing innocent people being better than incest. We're saying KILLING THE ENEMY. Who AREN'T innocent people. I even said "fighting against the enemies" in the post you just quoted.

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

Not to mention the *depiction* of violence in FE most of the is not shocking at all; it's less violent than popular children/teens media like Dragon Ball. The most violent and morbid events are only described through text and never, ever shown (child hunts, Izuka's experiments, etc).

The only times the violence gets more realistic or shocking it's to send a message or make a point(war is bad, monsters are evil, yadda yadda). Like when in Sacred Stones some innocent villagers can be killed by Giant Spiders, or Ranulf getting beaten to a pulp by beorcs. It's how you present it that matters.

[Anacybele]

Greil's stabbing was pretty violent too, and yet it didn't show blood. There are more violent and gruesome games out there than FE...

[Jave]

It depends on what you mean by "Has a place".

If you mean that incest is something that absolutely MUST be in every game in the series, then no. I don't think there's a single plot point that absolutely has to be on every game. FE may have a lot of traditions and archetypes, but those can be broken every now and then.

If you mean incest is something that can show up in the series if there's a place for it, then sure, put it in. If it's part of the main plot, do it right. If it's optional, well, still do it right, but if it's not done right then I can choose to ignore it, at least.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Looking over this thread, it seems people are forgetting the gay bandit brothers. Granted, they are encountered in remote places, so they could also be seen as bohemian.

i was just about to post this.

with that said i believe incest could be written well, but currently i don't have faith in IS to be able to handle that well outside of FE4, where its not really special or brought up with the pairings that you can make of that, and wasn't part of why the plot incest pairing happen, which did result in the anti Christ.

so you could twist this back around to say "incest is bad because it makes devils".

[Jotari]

The Bandit brothers are gay? News to me.

[Sartek]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned Lachesis, or how Lakche, who is her mother with short hair (looks wise), can marry her uncle(brother of her mother) and get a conversation too. Yikes.

Just nitpicking but Shannan is Lakche's cousin (the son of her mother's brother), not uncle.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Sartek

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

Oh, I did not know/remember that. That makes it less creepy.

[Jave]

FE4 also has Claude & Sylvia, which the game hints they're siblings at some point, yet they're one of the more popular pairings.

[Soledai]

The Bandit brothers are gay? News to me.

Same here.

I just assumed, probably like most, that they were overly flamboyant because japan sometimes likes to do that with those types of guys... for some reason.

[Reject]

I don't really care about it at all as long as it's between two consenting, canon adults. It's just a video game.

Incest doesn't really "have a place" in Fire Emblem, though, because it's such a minor part of it that it can be pretty easily overlooked. No one would miss it or care if it left, and not many would notice or care if it was still there.

Also, for all the shit that Fates gets about its "incest," I think it's pretty dumb since Corrin is supposed to represent the PLAYER. If I want to marry a royal, I'm not literally marrying my adoptive brother IRL. I'm "marrying" a fictional character of my choosing. Like yeah, I get that they call you brother/sister and shit, but regardless, it is still ME "marrying" someone. And even if you argue that Corrin is his/her own character, the point still remains that they aren't related. Azura is the exception, but oddly no one seems to complain about her.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Reject

[Etrurian emperor]

I always see the combo of incest and Fire emblem as more of a meme then an actual thing.

The only one where I can legitimately buy the incest is in 4 because its certainly present there, and being shown as very creepy and unhealthy too in the most important one. One option is entirely your own to make and its worth pointing out that Lachenis x Eltshan didn't make it into the game. A townswoman gossips about it and they are really close. Whatever the intention once was, that is it as far as the game goes. The manga is another matter though(ugh that bit just dragged on and on!)

So yeah, 4 is the incest game.

But I really don't get what is so incesty about Raven and Priscilla. Priscilla can be weird about Raven to be sure but that doesn't mean she wants to sleep with him.

Eirika and Ephraim seem based on a false rumor about a Japanese S ranking. That and some cultural differences about how close siblings should be.

Awakening has the cousin pairings censored to ''companions'' and I don't think people made to much of a fuss about those compared to Eirika and Ephraim or the ones from 4.

Whatever Fates has isn't incest....but I'd almost respect it more if they just outright allowed you to marry a sibling rather then shoving the blood vs loyalty premise under the bus through stupid mommy letters explaining why the Hosidans don't have as strong a claim to Corrin as they keep telling him.

And there's Corrin x Azura which is actual incest. I haven't played revelations but I wonder if the writers even realized that. I hear not a soul comments on the fact that they are cousins. I could totally see the guy who came up with those letters thinking ''Wouldn't it be cool if Arate and Mikoto'' were siblings!' and only later finding out that would make the two leads into cousins.

[Sunwoo]

Whatever Fates has isn't incest....but I'd almost respect it more if they just outright allowed you to marry a sibling rather then shoving the blood vs loyalty premise under the bus through stupid mommy letters explaining why the Hosidans don't have as strong a claim to Corrin as they keep telling him.

From wikipedia:

Incest is sexual activity between family members or close relatives.[1][2] This typically includes sexual activity between people in a consanguineous relationship (blood relations), and sometimes those related by affinity, such as individuals of the same household, step relatives, those related by adoption or marriage, or members of the same clan or lineage.

Under this definitions, marrying the Hoshidans and the Nohrians would count as incest.

EDIT: Ironically, Azura's the one who escapes some definitions of incest.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Sunwoo

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

FE4 also has Claude & Sylvia, which the game hints they're siblings at some point, yet they're one of the more popular pairings.

i remember something about kaga saying that they aren't actually siblings.

but i have no source on hand.

[Reject]

From wikipedia:

Under this definitions, marrying the Hoshidans and the Nohrians would count as incest.

EDIT: Ironically, Azura's the one who escapes some definitions of incest.

From dictionary.com:

noun

1. sexual intercourse between closely related persons.

2. the crime of sexual intercourse, cohabitation, or marriage between persons within the degrees of consanguinity or affinity wherein marriage is legally forbidden.

Wow, look at me, I can cherrypick a definition that best supports my stance, too!

Edited June 6, 2016 by Reject

[NekoKnight]

I forgot to mention that there are even some uncle/niece, aunt/nephew pairings possible in Awakening and Fates.

Under this definitions, marrying the Hoshidans and the Nohrians would count as incest.

EDIT: Ironically, Azura's the one who escapes some definitions of incest.

"Close relatives"

Edited June 6, 2016 by NekoKnight

[Darros]

Boy am I glad the serenes.txt twitter isn't a thing anymore. This thread would be a fucking pinned tweet.

Anyway, "theyre not blood related so it isnt incest!" is kind of a weak argument wrt Hoshido when you consider that you never really find out that you're not blood related to the Hoshido Royal Siblings until you S support one of them anyway ((Unless Ryoma spills the beans in an earlier support? Either way I dont think its mentioned in any story until late game Revelation)) so you're still kind of marrying your sibling with an afterthought of "oh right it's not incest btw". Nohr is a bit different. I mean Corrin and the Nohr Royal Siblings are outright not related and they're all aware of it. It's maybe a bit weird from an outsider's perspective but Corrin and their lover are two consenting adults ((or "adult that you technically are" as Leo refers to Elise)).

[Sunwoo]

Wow, look at me, I can cherrypick a definition that best supports my stance, too!

That's nice. The only thing either of us are proving is that there is no real set definition on incest regarding this, but under some definitions the Hoshidan and Nohrian siblings count and so calling it incest is technically not wrong.

[Reject]

That's nice. The only thing either of us are proving is that there is no real set definition on incest regarding this, but under some definitions the Hoshidan and Nohrian siblings count and so calling it incest is technically not wrong.

Thanks for absolutely no contribution, then?

[EricaofRenais]

Boy am I glad the serenes.txt twitter isn't a thing anymore. This thread would be a fucking pinned tweet.

Anyway, "theyre not blood related so it isnt incest!" is kind of a weak argument wrt Hoshido when you consider that you never really find out that you're not blood related to the Hoshido Royal Siblings until you S support one of them anyway ((Unless Ryoma spills the beans in an earlier support? Either way I dont think its mentioned in any story until late game Revelation)) so you're still kind of marrying your sibling with an afterthought of "oh right it's not incest btw". Nohr is a bit different. I mean Corrin and the Nohr Royal Siblings are outright not related and they're all aware of it. It's maybe a bit weird from an outsider's perspective but Corrin and their lover are two consenting adults ((or "adult that you technically are" as Leo refers to Elise)).

Hinoka spills the beans about them being step siblings in their B support, she blurts out that she did not like Corrin's mom at first and did not like listening to her because they weren't related.

[Etrurian emperor]

Hinoka spills the beans about them being step siblings in their B support, she blurts out that she did not like Corrin's mom at first and did not like listening to her because they weren't related.

Well even if Corrin was Hinoka's actual sibling then they still wouldn't have the same mother. The thought before those stupid letters is that Corrin is the child of Mikoto and Sumaragi but I always had the impression that it was common knowledge that Corrin has a different mother then his siblings. The father however is still thought to be Sumaragi.

[UNLEASH IT]

Oh, I did not know/remember that. That makes it less creepy.

No it doesn't , Shanan is like twice Lakche's age and practically raised her.